Views/Differences on Education for Children is Causing Rift in Marriage - Advice?

[Anonymous]

Op again, and I agree with the tours and data points raised. DH hasn't really been involved in the research re schools because he doesn't really care that much. So perhaps counseling is a good idea bc this issue is going to follow us up until college. I can certainly see the state school vs private university debate or community college vs state college debate in our future, with the same resulting nuances. It probably is a discussion we should have had while we were dating, but none of this was on the radar. I certainly wasn't thinking about schools when I moved to Alexandria a decade ago! And we were so blissful, it never occurred to me to compare our backgrounds, etc. I love him! So this is a little scary for me that someone I love so much and thought I knew so well is turning out to have such a different value system.

[Anonymous]

I don't know a thing about the Alexandria schools (we're up in Baltimore), but it sounds like a good idea to visit the school. On one hand, I suppose its possible you'll be comforted to find some good teachers or maybe an involved, core parent group? On the other hand, maybe DH will be startled and modify his position. One thing to consider -- both in convincing him, and in reaching a judgement of your own -- is not the academics per se but the social scene. For example, he is may not be convinced that K needs to be a top-notch academic experience, but he may well care about kids who seem out of control or bullying, or who just plain exert huge social pressure not to engaging in the classroom. Park outside the school and see what the kids do when they aren't supervised.

Another thought - there may be some kind of middle ground between what he wants and what you want. Perhaps there are some private schools with lower price points that, while not "Big 3" calibur, would be safe, positive environments with decent or even good academics. The important thing in the early grades is getting down the fundamentals and getting engaged in learning. Or perhaps you can identify the public schools you like and then watch the real estate market and show him actual examples of houses that still have the attributes he considers important. Maybe you two can hit on something?

DH and I are on the same page -- but considering similar tradeoffs. We live in Baltimore City. Best of luck!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How about a Catholic school with lower tuition that you could afford on your own?

Op here. Good suggestion. I hadn't thought of that bc DH is not Catholic. But I am and the kids are. That's a possibility. But I wonder how difficult it is to get admitted if we aren't active churchgoers. But worth looking into definitely. Thank you!

I'm the one who suggested that, my husband and I had a difference of opinion on schooling, although not as big as yours. I was passionate about something and he wasn't. So I got my way, but had to pay for it myself. Which probably sounds horrible to many, but it works well for us. He wanted a strict religious private school and I wanted public. Our concession was a secular private, which costs more than the religious one. He didn't want to pay extra when he felt they were virtually the same. So I pay and don't have to worry about my kids learning about religion differently than the way we practice at home, which is very liberal.

What I wanted to highlight though, is that even if the Catholic schools aren't as top-notch as you may want (I don't know because I live in Maryland), the biggest two factors that influence a child's educational success are the family's income level and the mother's educational level. You've got those covered. Notwithstanding those, a failing public school can make this difficult if it has few resources, overcrowded classes, or a student culture where kids don't or "can't" care about educational success as much as we would all like. So I understand wanting to stay away from a failing school. A Catholic school would be different, not perfect (but I don't think any school is perfect). But it will most likely provide an educational atmosphere that values learning, and that's really important. It will at least complement your educational values. You can supplement as needed, choose other enrichment activities, etc.

[Anonymous]

My husband and I are very similar to you and your family. I went to private, he went to public. His parents did not go to college. There was no college tours for him, although they knew enough to encourage him to go to college. College was expected in my family, and cross country trips to explore the right one...
My husband does value education, but he wasn't sure if the cost at private school was really worth the outcome. We tried public school - we only lasted a week, I put my foot down, and was able to find a spot in a private school (we had also just moved into the area, so that was a help with getting a spot).

That said, my husband and I have an unofficial agreement. He controls the house decisions (what repairs/upgrades are we doing), I control the children (what extracurricular activities, what school). We consult each other, ask for opinions, but the end decision is up to the person in charge of the subject. We each have "veto" authority if there is something we seriously don't like. This works well for us. Nothing gets stuck with no decision made.

Honestly, some private schools are not much more expensive than what you pay for daycare. Trim a couple things - like vacations - and you may be able to afford it.

You may also want to look up the importance of early childhood education and show it to your husband. With mine, I agreed that we would reconsider public as they got older. My main concern is that at public they would get lost in the middle. There's emphasis on the gifted, and emphasis on the low achieving, but if your child is in the middle, they do not get as much attention. My first grader is already reading at the second grade level, has double digit addition and subtraction down, and participates in 2 after school science clubs (on top of science in school). I know if we switch him at middle or high school, he will go into the upper level courses and he will receive encouragement to advance, even at a public school.

I am really amazed at what they do at our private school. Violin lessons start in Junior Kindergarten, as well as exposure to artists like Georgia O'Keefe and Henri Matisse. The principal greets everyone each morning. Every day, I see my children's teachers. If I have any comments, concerns, or questions, I can ask them when I drop my children off.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
You may also want to look up the importance of early childhood education and show it to your husband. With mine, I agreed that we would reconsider public as they got older. My main concern is that at public they would get lost in the middle. There's emphasis on the gifted, and emphasis on the low achieving, but if your child is in the middle, they do not get as much attention. My first grader is already reading at the second grade level, has double digit addition and subtraction down, and participates in 2 after school science clubs (on top of science in school). I know if we switch him at middle or high school, he will go into the upper level courses and he will receive encouragement to advance, even at a public school.

This paragraph. I just can't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
You may also want to look up the importance of early childhood education and show it to your husband. With mine, I agreed that we would reconsider public as they got older. My main concern is that at public they would get lost in the middle. There's emphasis on the gifted, and emphasis on the low achieving, but if your child is in the middle, they do not get as much attention. My first grader is already reading at the second grade level, has double digit addition and subtraction down, and participates in 2 after school science clubs (on top of science in school). I know if we switch him at middle or high school, he will go into the upper level courses and he will receive encouragement to advance, even at a public school.

This paragraph. I just can't.

OP here and I sort of feel the way the original quoted poster feels. In Alexandria City in our district there is a strong financial and academic focus on the bottom. Test scores are down (as I mentioned, close to last in the state) so the admin is clearly focusing on bringing those up as opposed to focusing on the kids in the middle. My children are in the middle as far as I can tell. Neither gifted nor bottom. Right now they love school and I want to keep that momentum going. I fear that our zoned public will be riddled with problems from not just a resources/priority perspective, but also other disruptions like behavior issues and larger class sizes.

I want to establish a solid foundation for my kids. Not just in academics, but in their confidence levels and love of learning. I don't want them to get pushed aside while the focus is shifted to the tippy top gifted kids or the trouble makers, if that makes sense

I did look at the tuitions of our local catholic schools and they are doable for me on my own. $7k/year vs $26-$30k/year. Now the issue is whether we can get in. All of the local privates are upwards of $20k for one child.

I realize that moving to a better school district is the best solution, but it's just not something DH is willing to do. He has an easy commute now and won't sacrifice that. And we have a nice townhouse and nice neighborhood. He doesn't want to downgrade to a fixer upper for schools. I would.

But it's really nice to have the support on this board and all the helpful suggestions. Thank you!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My husband and I are very similar to you and your family. I went to private, he went to public. His parents did not go to college. There was no college tours for him, although they knew enough to encourage him to go to college. College was expected in my family, and cross country trips to explore the right one...
My husband does value education, but he wasn't sure if the cost at private school was really worth the outcome. We tried public school - we only lasted a week, I put my foot down, and was able to find a spot in a private school (we had also just moved into the area, so that was a help with getting a spot).

That said, my husband and I have an unofficial agreement. He controls the house decisions (what repairs/upgrades are we doing), I control the children (what extracurricular activities, what school). We consult each other, ask for opinions, but the end decision is up to the person in charge of the subject. We each have "veto" authority if there is something we seriously don't like. This works well for us. Nothing gets stuck with no decision made.

Honestly, some private schools are not much more expensive than what you pay for daycare. Trim a couple things - like vacations - and you may be able to afford it.

You may also want to look up the importance of early childhood education and show it to your husband. With mine, I agreed that we would reconsider public as they got older. My main concern is that at public they would get lost in the middle. There's emphasis on the gifted, and emphasis on the low achieving, but if your child is in the middle, they do not get as much attention. My first grader is already reading at the second grade level, has double digit addition and subtraction down, and participates in 2 after school science clubs (on top of science in school). I know if we switch him at middle or high school, he will go into the upper level courses and he will receive encouragement to advance, even at a public school.

I am really amazed at what they do at our private school. Violin lessons start in Junior Kindergarten, as well as exposure to artists like Georgia O'Keefe and Henri Matisse. The principal greets everyone each morning. Every day, I see my children's teachers. If I have any comments, concerns, or questions, I can ask them when I drop my children off.

Which private is this? And is it under $20k/year? It sounds great!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here and I appreciate all of the different suggestions. To clarify, I am not a helicopter parent or someone who puts education above all else. If I did, wouldn't have married my husband, who doesn't have the education i do. I knew that and fell in love with him because of other characteristics he has. And I still do love those. He is fantastic guy and great husband and father, and we have had no issues whatsoever until this school thing. I myself am a product of public schools until high school.

We are in Alexandria and it's well known that our public school is considered to be failing by state standards. It's been well discussed on this board and is in the bottom of the bottom in SOL rank. If we lived in one of the better zones, I would certainly consider public. But that's not the case here. And having researched the process of transferring, I am not confident it will be a good o

If your DH had more info. about the school -- like visceral info -- maybe he'd see the same concerns you have. I typically am suspicious of people who claim their school is so "bad" that they can't send their kids there ... then it turns out that it is a "6" on Great Schools which is above average. But, in your case, I am pretty sure you're not kidding about it being a failing school. So, that's why I suggest putting DH in the position where he can get a first hand view of the school (and you can get a first hand view as well). You can read all the stats you want, but until you see something first hand, you won't really internalize it. That would be my first step. I would also have a conversation -- with a genuinely open mind -- to find out what characteristics a school would have to have for it to be acceptable, and whether there are any "unacceptable" characteristics. Is he really against moving (b/c it's such an effort and upheval, or the financial burden of buying up) or is he against the idea of private (b/c it's the opposite of what he had)?

I don't think you need therapy or couples counselling until you both have seen the school in question from the inside (literally and from parents of kids who go there). Right now, you have one picture and DH has another picture. Until you have the SAME DATA POINTS, you are never going to find common ground in what you value. I think you value the same things that most parents value -- he just thinks this school might be o.k. and you think this school is in the crapper. Start by finding the values that you have in common (i.e. safety, teachers that speak respectfully to the kids, teachers that are prepared, classmates that you'd want your kids to have as friends, etc.). Then visit the school and talk to parents of the kids, ... then you both make a decision on whether this school fits the values. I bet you have more in common than you think. If you are disagreeing on whether the school fits after visiting, then it's time to find an arbitrator/counselor.

wow -- great response...i will use this as a way to solve differences with my own DH!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
You may also want to look up the importance of early childhood education and show it to your husband. With mine, I agreed that we would reconsider public as they got older. My main concern is that at public they would get lost in the middle. There's emphasis on the gifted, and emphasis on the low achieving, but if your child is in the middle, they do not get as much attention. My first grader is already reading at the second grade level, has double digit addition and subtraction down, and participates in 2 after school science clubs (on top of science in school). I know if we switch him at middle or high school, he will go into the upper level courses and he will receive encouragement to advance, even at a public school.

This paragraph. I just can't.

OP here and I sort of feel the way the original quoted poster feels. In Alexandria City in our district there is a strong financial and academic focus on the bottom. Test scores are down (as I mentioned, close to last in the state) so the admin is clearly focusing on bringing those up as opposed to focusing on the kids in the middle. My children are in the middle as far as I can tell. Neither gifted nor bottom. Right now they love school and I want to keep that momentum going. I fear that our zoned public will be riddled with problems from not just a resources/priority perspective, but also other disruptions like behavior issues and larger class sizes.

I want to establish a solid foundation for my kids. Not just in academics, but in their confidence levels and love of learning. I don't want them to get pushed aside while the focus is shifted to the tippy top gifted kids or the trouble makers, if that makes sense

I did look at the tuitions of our local catholic schools and they are doable for me on my own. $7k/year vs $26-$30k/year. Now the issue is whether we can get in. All of the local privates are upwards of $20k for one child.

I realize that moving to a better school district is the best solution, but it's just not something DH is willing to do. He has an easy commute now and won't sacrifice that. And we have a nice townhouse and nice neighborhood. He doesn't want to downgrade to a fixer upper for schools. I would.

But it's really nice to have the support on this board and all the helpful suggestions. Thank you!

OP -- you say you have kids in school now and they love it...so are you just expecting that your kids will soon get lost in the middle...just trying to figure out where you are now and when/how you expect to see this shift take place.
I am not in your school district so I do not have any first hand experience with your schools, and quite frankly I take DCUM reviews with a HALF grain of salt. I encourage you to take the suggestion of the other posters, who say to take a tour of the school and talk to parents of kids are in the school NOW. Please understand that commutes make a big DIFFERENCE in the life of the ENTIRE family. This is not to be taken lightly -- and not something to be dismissed lightly especially if folks are not shooting or jacking kids for their lunch money at your local school. A previous poster made a good suggestion about getting solid real world info for you and your husband to be able to look at and vet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

OP here and I sort of feel the way the original quoted poster feels. In Alexandria City in our district there is a strong financial and academic focus on the bottom. Test scores are down (as I mentioned, close to last in the state) so the admin is clearly focusing on bringing those up as opposed to focusing on the kids in the middle. My children are in the middle as far as I can tell. Neither gifted nor bottom. Right now they love school and I want to keep that momentum going. I fear that our zoned public will be riddled with problems from not just a resources/priority perspective, but also other disruptions like behavior issues and larger class sizes.

I want to establish a solid foundation for my kids. Not just in academics, but in their confidence levels and love of learning. I don't want them to get pushed aside while the focus is shifted to the tippy top gifted kids or the trouble makers, if that makes sense

I did look at the tuitions of our local catholic schools and they are doable for me on my own. $7k/year vs $26-$30k/year. Now the issue is whether we can get in. All of the local privates are upwards of $20k for one child.

I realize that moving to a better school district is the best solution, but it's just not something DH is willing to do. He has an easy commute now and won't sacrifice that. And we have a nice townhouse and nice neighborhood. He doesn't want to downgrade to a fixer upper for schools. I would.

But it's really nice to have the support on this board and all the helpful suggestions. Thank you!

OP -- you say you have kids in school now and they love it...so are you just expecting that your kids will soon get lost in the middle...just trying to figure out where you are now and when/how you expect to see this shift take place.
I am not in your school district so I do not have any first hand experience with your schools, and quite frankly I take DCUM reviews with a HALF grain of salt. I encourage you to take the suggestion of the other posters, who say to take a tour of the school and talk to parents of kids are in the school NOW. Please understand that commutes make a big DIFFERENCE in the life of the ENTIRE family. This is not to be taken lightly - and not something to be dismissed lightly especially if folks are not shooting or jacking kids for their lunch money at your local school. A previous poster made a good suggestion about getting solid real world info for you and your husband to be able to look at and vet.

First, I don't think the OP has school aged kids yet. I think she's looking at K next year.
Second, I wholeheartedly agree with the commute. We moved twice - into smaller and closer to keep the commute down to 30 min or less. Most of the locations with good schools will add 30 min - even if it's only 5-10 miles further out.

[Anonymous]

An interesting article, albeit a little old, on the importance of a strong K program. You might want to share this with DH?

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/28/business/economy/28leonhardt.html?_r=3&ref=education&

[Anonymous]

OP, any chance you would qualify for financial aid at a private school?

Agree with the PP who said to try to keep the commute down too -- a long daily commute to school is so hard on the family.

Show your husband the recent research on the lasting importance of early childhood education -- there were stories about this in the last year on NPR and This American Life, and I think an op ed by Maureen Dowd in the NYT just this past weekend about how some Oklahoma billionaire did all the research and figured out that the best way to combat poverty was to invest heavily in early childhood education programs. It's interesting. The love of learning -- and the good habits associated with the love of learning -- are instilled in these early years. It may help to convince your husband that this is something to care about and invest in, whether it is paying for a private school or moving/renting in a better school district or applying to a good charter.

Also, FWIW, I had parents who did not think much about my education. We didn't have any money and we didn't live in a good school district. My sibling and I were left to fend for ourselves. I distinctly remember the experience of basically learning nothing and spending all day having to babysit and tutor kids who I now realize needed real help in the form of special education, because they were clearly developmentally delayed. I remember kids being suspended for violence. I remember teachers being scary (lots of yelling, one teacher liked to kick over desks). This lasted until I was lucky enough to test into a better school -- a teacher advocated for me to test into this other school, and it completely turned things around for me, though it still did take several years for me to become enthusiastic about learning. Not saying that my experience is what would happen to your kids in public school, or that this experience is exclusive to public schools -- there are bad teachers and adminstrators everywhere. I guess what I'm saying is that, setting aside public v. private or whatever, you are right to take this as a serious decision and to think about it, and your husband is wrong for taking the "everything will just work out - leave it alone" attitude.

[Anonymous]

If the OP is in Alexandria City and is talking about a school which is "well-discussed" on these boards, with a horrible SOL rank ("near last in the state"), it's probably Jefferson-Houston Elementary.

If that is the case, I don't blame the OP for wanting better. Not only is Jefferson-Houston considered a "failing school," (the State was going to take it over because it was performing so poorly) but there also have been several reported instances of physical violence and physical altercations amongst students, based on reports. Jefferson-Houston is zoned to incorporate several expensive/yuppy newish townhouse communities in Alexandria near Old Town, as well as other higher end parts of Northern Old Town Alexandria. But it also includes several low income housing areas that are known for drugs/violence vagrancy. Many of those communities are being redeveloped, but the truth of the matter is that anyone who is in some of the nicer areas zoned for that school either goes private, parochial, moves, or goes through the city transfer process, which is a huge PITA, not guaranteed, and doesn't get transfer approval or results until late summer, sometimes the week before school starts. That rules out the option of most privates or parochials.

OP, What I suggested is keep the discussion open with your DH while also keeping your children's educational options open. Look at some of the other elementaries and reach out to the superintendant to discuss a possible administrative transfer. Look at both privates and parochials, especially the parochials if you can afford them solo. Do this all while gradually trying to warm up DH to the idea and involve him in the process.

It also sounds to me like DH is kind of letting you take the reins. So, do the best you can and work with what you have. But I don't blame you for avoiding Jefferson-Houston, if that is, indeed, the school you are zoned for. I know i wouldn't send my kids there, especially this first year after the new building opens. I wouldn't want my kids to be the guinea pigs in a new building of a failing school.

[Anonymous]

OP how are your CHILDREN doing in schools? Do they enjoy going every day? Do they love learning?

Hopefully your values will be reflected in their attitudes towards schools and your choice of school, which is definitely important, won't dictate their experience 100%. An assertive kid can thrive in a not-so-awesome school but if you think your children might benefit from being with really motivated kids I would keep working on your husband to explore the parochial and private school route.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
If your DH had more info. about the school -- like visceral info -- maybe he'd see the same concerns you have. I typically am suspicious of people who claim their school is so "bad" that they can't send their kids there ... then it turns out that it is a "6" on Great Schools which is above average. But, in your case, I am pretty sure you're not kidding about it being a failing school. So, that's why I suggest putting DH in the position where he can get a first hand view of the school (and you can get a first hand view as well). You can read all the stats you want, but until you see something first hand, you won't really internalize it. That would be my first step. I would also have a conversation -- with a genuinely open mind -- to find out what characteristics a school would have to have for it to be acceptable, and whether there are any "unacceptable" characteristics. Is he really against moving (b/c it's such an effort and upheval, or the financial burden of buying up) or is he against the idea of private (b/c it's the opposite of what he had)?

I don't think you need therapy or couples counselling until you both have seen the school in question from the inside (literally and from parents of kids who go there). Right now, you have one picture and DH has another picture. Until you have the SAME DATA POINTS, you are never going to find common ground in what you value. I think you value the same things that most parents value -- he just thinks this school might be o.k. and you think this school is in the crapper. Start by finding the values that you have in common (i.e. safety, teachers that speak respectfully to the kids, teachers that are prepared, classmates that you'd want your kids to have as friends, etc.). Then visit the school and talk to parents of the kids, ... then you both make a decision on whether this school fits the values. I bet you have more in common than you think. If you are disagreeing on whether the school fits after visiting, then it's time to find an arbitrator/counselor.

+1
I was going to say the exact same thing. You have to agree on the values you have in common for what you want in a school. Even at a not so great school, a child can get a good education especially if the parent is working with the child at home (I.e. reading, making sure homework is done, providing enrichment or extra help as needed). You need DH to have first hand information to see if the school is providing what you both believe is important for your child. Make sure he is active in your child's education and in talking with the teacher(s) etc. Have him attend the important board of education meetings and community meetings about the school changes and curriculum. Second hand and third hand information is not the same when you are talking about spending significant amounts of money to move to private school. Instead of making it a battle of wills where one person wins and another person loses, let first hand experience do the convincing. This goes the other way too where you need to have an open mind that maybe elementary is okay or there are GT or magnet or charter school public school options that will work. Just remember too in context of schools you have to factor your child's personality. Some kids will do well wherever and have that blend of good grades and being able to be well liked and make friends easily and will keep up his/her grades even if friends do not or will find friends with similar academic habits. Other kids can struggle with any of those things.

I had parents that were not on the same page about education and life experiences and I always though to myself how much better things would have been if they had found a middle ground and had both appreciated what the other person's perspective brought to the table. You don't want one parent to feel cut out of the process, or that his/her opinion and experiences did not count. As a kid, we never took a vacation that didn't involve just staying at a relatives house the whole time (there was no group outing to any place while staying at grandma's). DH's parents were teachers and they used the summer to travel across the US. These were no luxury vacations(think driving, bring your own food, and motels) but they created these wonderful memories for DH and they had educational and life experience value. You know how kids write everything in those school journal/exercises, well our kids have written about our family vacations. It's always funny to me because in the moment, they are whining, and complaining, and I think never again and don't you (kids) realize this is a luxury to go on any type of vacation. then of course after the fact, they talk to grandma and grandpa about how much fun it was, they write in school journals about the highlights, they like to look thru the pictures etc.

I did also want to mention the commute thing. You both need to strongly agree if you are going to move and have a further commute. DH would be signing up for not seeing his kids as much, perhaps not being able to go to all this early afternoon school events or picking up from soccer practice, or being able to eat dinner at 6:30pm. You perhaps would be signing up for more child and house responsibilities. I know I hate a long commute and being in traffic etc, so it really is not fair for someone else to decide/push me on what sacrifices I should make. I have to truly believe the sacrifice is worth it or it can cause resentment and issues down the line. If you both come to the same conclusion that the public school is not providing what you agreed was the best for your child then you both work together to come up with options.