Fostering a relationship between mom and my kids

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I feel like I'm having a crisis. I'm not sure if it's because I'm in a bad state of depression and I've taken a darker, negative perspective. Or if I am having a moment of clarity in the mental fog I have been living in all my life. But it suddenly appears as though that for my mom, the only purpose of my existence is to serve her - with time, attention, love, money, care, help and to not have any problems of my own that will distract from this purpose. She literally knows nothing about me or my life. She knows nothing about my children. She doesn't know how old they are or what grade they are in.

I've been telling myself, as much as she drives me crazy sometimes, my mom is a good person, and she loves me very much, and she's doing her best with what she knows, she sacrificed so much for me. In my sibling's eyes, my mom can do no wrong, so I often think there's something wrong with me when I get frustrated with her - that I'm a bad person for not loving and accepting my mom the way I should. In the past, she has obsessively worried about me - it was diabolical. She said it was because she cared. I told her to stop caring. She obliged. The frantic phone calls stopped.

She's estranged with her brothers and sisters. She thinks they're all selfish and they are all takers. The only one she has a relationship is with a person who has mental health issues and their relationship is very dysfunctional. Her sisters hold resentment from past hurts from long ago. She has many friends though, but she often says they all exhaust her because they just go on and on about their own problems and don't seem to care about hers.

Therapy is great for this, OP, but it sounds like a moment of clarity to me.

I’m not sure. As a counterpoint, my mom also just called me to apologize for not calling me for over a month and a half. She said she has bee in the worst pain of her life in the last couple months (arthritis) and hasn’t been able to do anything. And she wanted to invite me and the kids over to her house. It does seem like sometimes enjoys them. It’s just that she’s ultra sensitive to how they interact with her.

[Anonymous]

Your mom is from a different culture. In American culture, the family is child-centric. In some other cultures, the parent-child relationship is more parent-centered. This may be why you have always assumed it was normal.

Your relationship with your mom reminds me of me and my mom. She overrelied on me for listening to her, she had a lot of mental health struggles, and I did feel like she loved me, in this needy way. It wasn't healthy, but it was acceptable to me. My mom died when my first kid was a year old, but I was really shocked at how little comfort the baby was to her. I had assumed that my mom would be thrilled, but she wasn't. I think, simply, she was ill and not able to take joy in things that were joyful... When that happens, it's all work and no gain, you know?

Now... I'm not sure if you can ever successfully facilitate a relationship between your kids and your mom. I'm not sure if you should even try. But you should definitely stop letting your mom berate you for things that aren't at all your fault.

TLDR: stop wishing things were different, set good boundaries, and continue having a relationship with your mom; she won't change, she is who she is, but the boundaries will help.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I feel like I'm having a crisis. I'm not sure if it's because I'm in a bad state of depression and I've taken a darker, negative perspective. Or if I am having a moment of clarity in the mental fog I have been living in all my life. But it suddenly appears as though that for my mom, the only purpose of my existence is to serve her - with time, attention, love, money, care, help and to not have any problems of my own that will distract from this purpose. She literally knows nothing about me or my life. She knows nothing about my children. She doesn't know how old they are or what grade they are in.

I've been telling myself, as much as she drives me crazy sometimes, my mom is a good person, and she loves me very much, and she's doing her best with what she knows, she sacrificed so much for me. In my sibling's eyes, my mom can do no wrong, so I often think there's something wrong with me when I get frustrated with her - that I'm a bad person for not loving and accepting my mom the way I should. In the past, she has obsessively worried about me - it was diabolical. She said it was because she cared. I told her to stop caring. She obliged. The frantic phone calls stopped.

She's estranged with her brothers and sisters. She thinks they're all selfish and they are all takers. The only one she has a relationship is with a person who has mental health issues and their relationship is very dysfunctional. Her sisters hold resentment from past hurts from long ago. She has many friends though, but she often says they all exhaust her because they just go on and on about their own problems and don't seem to care about hers.

Therapy is great for this, OP, but it sounds like a moment of clarity to me.

I’m not sure. As a counterpoint, my mom also just called me to apologize for not calling me for over a month and a half. She said she has bee in the worst pain of her life in the last couple months (arthritis) and hasn’t been able to do anything. And she wanted to invite me and the kids over to her house. It does seem like sometimes enjoys them. It’s just that she’s ultra sensitive to how they interact with her.

Wanting you close so that you make her feel better isn’t love.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Your mom is from a different culture. In American culture, the family is child-centric. In some other cultures, the parent-child relationship is more parent-centered. This may be why you have always assumed it was normal.

Your relationship with your mom reminds me of me and my mom. She overrelied on me for listening to her, she had a lot of mental health struggles, and I did feel like she loved me, in this needy way. It wasn't healthy, but it was acceptable to me. My mom died when my first kid was a year old, but I was really shocked at how little comfort the baby was to her. I had assumed that my mom would be thrilled, but she wasn't. I think, simply, she was ill and not able to take joy in things that were joyful... When that happens, it's all work and no gain, you know?

Now... I'm not sure if you can ever successfully facilitate a relationship between your kids and your mom. I'm not sure if you should even try. But you should definitely stop letting your mom berate you for things that aren't at all your fault.

TLDR: stop wishing things were different, set good boundaries, and continue having a relationship with your mom; she won't change, she is who she is, but the boundaries will help.

Thanks. I think I am trying to hard to judge her as good or bad. She’s human and she’s complicated. Maybe part of her wants a relationship with me and the kids but maybe mostly she is unable to show up for it because of what she lacks. And I have to stop allowing her make me feel like I’m the only one responsible for that lack of connection.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your mother has deep issues. You DO need to teach your children to look people in the eye, and respond when they are spoken to. But do not push them to hug someone they don't feel warmly towards or punish them for not hugging.

If your mother comes over, I'd suggest she and one of your kids go bake something you've put out. Or that your kid read her a poem they've written for school or something like that. Clearly, they need help and a project, a purpose would help.

I'm realizing that these normal types of things you do with a grandchild.... She cannot do those things. She will be annoyed or perplexed at the suggestion.

She sulks when I bring her along to outings with our kids like a children's museum. She looks around and says there's not a lot of other older people like her. She gets faint and nearly passes out, from not eating enough breakfast, and requires me to sit with her for a couple of hours.

Your mother is an attention whore. Hand her a protein bar and a bottle of water, and point her to a bench. Then go join your kids. WTF - she gets faint from a CHOICE to not eat breakfast and then needs you to sit with her? What would happen if you DIDN'T sit with her? Nothing. She just wants your attention. She is uncomfortable seeing you give attention to your kids. Because then you're not focusing on her. She's messed up.

[Anonymous]

She knows nothing about my children. She doesn't know how old they are or what grade they are in.

Here's a counterpoint: I have two grandchildren. I know when their birthdays are, and what grade they're in. I go to their birthday parties, and get them presents they'll like. I know the names of their best friends, and their favorite colors. I know their favorite foods, and the activities I can suggest we do that they'll be excited about.

[Anonymous]

Yes she is toxic. You just haven't had enough therapy to see it yet. Don't make her issues yours. I wouldn't have my kids around someone like that. She's estranged from other people because of her issues. This isn't love. Please get a good therapist. You are being gaslit and manipulated by a narcissist. Any therapist will easily see this. You can work on your depression and need for boundaries with your mother. I'm so sorry you are going through this. Please take care of you. Your mother can take care of herself. It is not your problem, even though she seems to have brainwashed you into thinking it is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes she is toxic. You just haven't had enough therapy to see it yet. Don't make her issues yours. I wouldn't have my kids around someone like that. She's estranged from other people because of her issues. This isn't love. Please get a good therapist. You are being gaslit and manipulated by a narcissist. Any therapist will easily see this. You can work on your depression and need for boundaries with your mother. I'm so sorry you are going through this. Please take care of you. Your mother can take care of herself. It is not your problem, even though she seems to have brainwashed you into thinking it is.

I have a therapist. He has been trying to help me improve my relationship with her but it hasn’t improved. Sometimes, she is temporarily satiated and not complaining, but it is always temporary.

I always thought it was my dad who was a narcissist. I never once considered that my mom might be one. She was always on the receiving end of my dad’s verbal abuse. She was pretty quiet during our childhood. But at some point, after we left the house, they kind of switched places. She was the controlling one who was always yelling at my dad and he turned quiet and depressed.

[Anonymous]

You had a toxic childhood. Stop this nonsense now. You don’t need a better relationship with this woman — you need much less of a relationship with her.

And your kids don’t need any of this!!!

[Anonymous]

^ agree

Op, you are not thinking about what's best for your kids!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You had a toxic childhood. Stop this nonsense now. You don’t need a better relationship with this woman — you need much less of a relationship with her.

And your kids don’t need any of this!!!

+1 Sges done a number on you. Maybe she is so ill thst she can’t help herself, but boy - the dynamic you described is 100% toxic. There is no reason you should subject your kids to that dysfunction.

This is unsolvable, and will not change. You seem to feel responsible for her emotional state, and you are not. I don’t have the bandwidth right now to dig deep but I could barely read your account because I did not understand why you are putting yourself snd your kids in this position - desperate for her approval. Because she kill’s herself to cook and clean for you? She spends hours on a meal so you should be enmeshed and have no boundaries? No.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You had a toxic childhood. Stop this nonsense now. You don’t need a better relationship with this woman — you need much less of a relationship with her.

And your kids don’t need any of this!!!

+1 Sges done a number on you. Maybe she is so ill thst she can’t help herself, but boy - the dynamic you described is 100% toxic. There is no reason you should subject your kids to that dysfunction.

This is unsolvable, and will not change. You seem to feel responsible for her emotional state, and you are not. I don’t have the bandwidth right now to dig deep but I could barely read your account because I did not understand why you are putting yourself snd your kids in this position - desperate for her approval. Because she kill’s herself to cook and clean for you? She spends hours on a meal so you should be enmeshed and have no boundaries? No.

I feel it is my duty to love and take care of her no matter what. And to forgive her of her flaws. Some of that is part of my culture. She has had a really hard life. Sometimes she says nonsensical critical, controlling things. But at other times she says things like, she knows that her depression and illness is no one else’s problem except hers and it’s something she has to fix on her own. And that sometimes it keeps her from wanting to talk to people, or interact with people. And even when she is with others, like my kids, or other family, it only makes her feel more alone and lonely. I feel pulled from opposite ends of feeling like as a daughter, it’s my job to help her, and believing she is selfless and wants a better relationship too with us, to feeling like she is extremely selfish and self centered and is only doing everything else to make sure we stay close to her and give her what she needs.

But she refuses to take medication, even with her doctor’s urging for over 4 years. And she refuses to move out of her 3br house for which she is unable to care for on her own and constantly needs our help with maintaining and fixing. Because she says she likes the large space and would feel trapped and claustrophobic in a smaller space. But I also get that change is hard and she’s attached to the house she has lived in for 40 years. It is just a hard situation and we are tied to her because she relies on us to take care of a lot of things, and we also financially support her.

[Anonymous]

Wow, that is a lot. Your mother has no boundaries. She may feel lonely and depressed but she should not be placing this emotional burden on you and as a parent her job is to shield you from this, not treat you as her therapist. You are very enmeshed with her and are completely parentified. She is a bottomless pit and will not change. Her cooking and cleaning for you to exhaustion is a form of martyrdom that she can later hold over your head. She is not cooking and cleaning for you to help you. She is doing it so you fawn over her and feel indebted to her. I suggest getting into therapy for yourself to help you set some boundaries and learn not to give into the guilt and manipulation you have been conditioned into since childhood. As far as the relationship with your children, I don’t see a genuine interest on her part to be a grandparent. It almost seems like she is competing with them for your attention and is resentful of them.

[Anonymous]

I have lived this. I too thought my dad was the bad guy, but after he passed I realized their dynamic was dysfunctional and her behavior toward me is far worse and downright abusive if I don't set limits. My dad and I had a peaceful relationship, but she had me convinced he was responsible for her happiness as opposed to her own mental illness.

I basically kept boundaries. I stopped getting sucked into guilt when she complained about all her aches and pains and slights and hurt feelings. If I actually thought my kids were rude, I had the rude one apologize, but that was rare.

I don't show her much emotion. I remain calm. If she complains my kids don't hug and kiss her I explain we teach them to respect their bodies and if they don't like that kind of interaction, they don't have to engage. I do have them greet her kindly and be polite, but I support them when she tries to suck them into her crazy dance.

I have had to step back a lot-fewer visits, calls, etc because she cannot help herself. When she crosses a line I tell her. Sometimes we take long breaks. She tries to turn it on me and say she feels like she needs to walk on eggshells. That's fine. Walk on them. I expect people to treat my family with respect and we don't tolerate manipulation. if that is walking on eggshells, so be it.

[Anonymous]

OP, I could've written this (though my mom is a native english speaker and still acts like what you describe). I'm so sorry. My mom has told me something is wrong with my child because she cried when she was 3 because she was scared of the dark. Told me I should take her to a psychologist and that I'm not a good parent.

My DD also has a MUCH stronger relationship with my ILs. I'm grateful for it, but it breaks my heart too. My ILs would spend every weekend with her, but my parents never ask to see her. Even when they see her (with us present) they barely even speak to her and she's 7 now and can carry on a conversation (and does with other adults). They also don't seem to know what grade she is in. They show ZERO interest in her. And she notices now. She says her grandparents don't like her or care about her and then my parents have the nerve to complain that she likes my ILs better. Yeah, she does because they try with her. They talk to her, ask her to spend the night, do fun things with her, come to her activities, call her, etc. My parents do none of those things, so it's shocking to me that they are surprised.

Sorry, I don't have advice, just commiseration. All I've done is set boundaries big time and shut down the snarky comments. But honestly, it's not helped the situation, if anything they punish us all more because of it. But with a LOT of therapy, I've realized it's a them thing and I can't control their actions and I can't fix the situation. That's helped me achieve a little peace, but it's one of the most hurtful things I've ever had to deal with in my life.