Fostering a relationship between mom and my kids

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I could've written this (though my mom is a native english speaker and still acts like what you describe). I'm so sorry. My mom has told me something is wrong with my child because she cried when she was 3 because she was scared of the dark. Told me I should take her to a psychologist and that I'm not a good parent.

My DD also has a MUCH stronger relationship with my ILs. I'm grateful for it, but it breaks my heart too. My ILs would spend every weekend with her, but my parents never ask to see her. Even when they see her (with us present) they barely even speak to her and she's 7 now and can carry on a conversation (and does with other adults). They also don't seem to know what grade she is in. They show ZERO interest in her. And she notices now. She says her grandparents don't like her or care about her and then my parents have the nerve to complain that she likes my ILs better. Yeah, she does because they try with her. They talk to her, ask her to spend the night, do fun things with her, come to her activities, call her, etc. My parents do none of those things, so it's shocking to me that they are surprised.

Sorry, I don't have advice, just commiseration. All I've done is set boundaries big time and shut down the snarky comments. But honestly, it's not helped the situation, if anything they punish us all more because of it. But with a LOT of therapy, I've realized it's a them thing and I can't control their actions and I can't fix the situation. That's helped me achieve a little peace, but it's one of the most hurtful things I've ever had to deal with in my life.

How has therapy helped you? I feel like my therapy has only made it worse. One thing I have learned I need to be better at setting boundaries with criticism. But I feel as though my therapist keeps putting the onus on me to help my mom with her problems - to help be the bridge to develop the relationship with her grandchildren, to think more creatively about opportunities I can make to help develop that relationship, to help her through her end of life crisis and fear that she will be leaving this earth without feeling loved by her family. It seems like he does not want me to lose hope for a better connection with my mom. But it's been such a hard thing to hold on to.

I had a crappy session today. I felt like he 100 percent empathized more with my mom than with me. When I shared that I felt like I was going through a crisis, he said he thought it was my mom having the crisis.

You need a new therapist. Or else you need to tell this one that you want to focus on your own depression and ability to stand up for yourself, and not on repairing your relationship with your mom, and if he doesn't respect that, then you need a new therapist.

Yes, I agree. I wonder what you've told the therapist your goals are. I mean your post is about trying to foster a better relationship between you and your mother and your kids. Did you say that to the therapist too? Is that actually your goal?

No, I said I felt like all this time I had been acting under the assumption she wanted a closer relationship with my kids and me, but now I was questioning everything. Whether she even wants that…. Or whether she just wants me to take care of her and get my kids to take care of her. And her tactics have been manipulative. I’ve realized everyone I “take care of” or pay attention to in her presence, she ends up attacking their character. Saying things like they are angry with her because she didn’t give them enough gifts or money or something similar. It upsets her to see me pay more attention to my kids than to her.

My goal was to figure out whether to keep pursuing this hope of creating a relationship between her and the kids or to give up on the idea and just give her what she really wants, within reason. Which is financial, physical, and emotional support.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I could've written this (though my mom is a native english speaker and still acts like what you describe). I'm so sorry. My mom has told me something is wrong with my child because she cried when she was 3 because she was scared of the dark. Told me I should take her to a psychologist and that I'm not a good parent.

My DD also has a MUCH stronger relationship with my ILs. I'm grateful for it, but it breaks my heart too. My ILs would spend every weekend with her, but my parents never ask to see her. Even when they see her (with us present) they barely even speak to her and she's 7 now and can carry on a conversation (and does with other adults). They also don't seem to know what grade she is in. They show ZERO interest in her. And she notices now. She says her grandparents don't like her or care about her and then my parents have the nerve to complain that she likes my ILs better. Yeah, she does because they try with her. They talk to her, ask her to spend the night, do fun things with her, come to her activities, call her, etc. My parents do none of those things, so it's shocking to me that they are surprised.

Sorry, I don't have advice, just commiseration. All I've done is set boundaries big time and shut down the snarky comments. But honestly, it's not helped the situation, if anything they punish us all more because of it. But with a LOT of therapy, I've realized it's a them thing and I can't control their actions and I can't fix the situation. That's helped me achieve a little peace, but it's one of the most hurtful things I've ever had to deal with in my life.

How has therapy helped you? I feel like my therapy has only made it worse. One thing I have learned I need to be better at setting boundaries with criticism. But I feel as though my therapist keeps putting the onus on me to help my mom with her problems - to help be the bridge to develop the relationship with her grandchildren, to think more creatively about opportunities I can make to help develop that relationship, to help her through her end of life crisis and fear that she will be leaving this earth without feeling loved by her family. It seems like he does not want me to lose hope for a better connection with my mom. But it's been such a hard thing to hold on to.

I had a crappy session today. I felt like he 100 percent empathized more with my mom than with me. When I shared that I felt like I was going through a crisis, he said he thought it was my mom having the crisis.

PP that you quoted... you need a new therapist. My therapist has taught me that you don't owe crappy parents a relationship. I have not (and will not) go no contact, but we are very low contact and my parents come after me for that (all very selfishly, all about them, just wanting constant attention) and I've learned that I can't change how they feel and I need to protect myself and my DD first and foremost.

Even yesterday, my DD made a comment that her grandma (my mom) doesn't care about her because she saw my MIL do something thoughtful/kind for her. She asked me "why doesn't grandma do that too? it seems like she doesn't care about me." It's heartbreaking to hear a young kid say these things. But I ALWAYS validate her feelings. My mom truly thinks a young child should be making the effort with her (just like she thinks only I should make an effort in our relationship) and I can see just how screwed up that is.

I still feel conflicted and upset. My therapist suggested I take a trip to just see her on my own, without the kids, since that is what she really wants foremost, time with me. And to just sit and listen to her. I said, that's what I do all the time on our phone calls - she talks and talks for hours while I listen to her problems.

No one, especially a therapist, should encourage a one way relationship.

I think he is concerned about her. That she doesn't have emotional support and that I am her only lifeline and person that she feels comfortable talking to her problems to. He says I have a therapist I can talk to - she does not. I have resources available to me, she does not. I am able to go and drive to meet friends, while she does not. And it's clear she's very depressed and sad, so I think he is worried about her.

Maybe YOUR therapist should be worried about YOU

did your therapist say he was worried about her or are you extrapolating your feelings on to his observations? Or show you how you are in a good position to take care of your life?

I’m basing it off all of his responses. They were all things I could be doing for her to satisfy her needs. And he was explaining that she had no one else she could rely on for what I could provide to her. And that this was an existential crisis for her, realizing at this late hour of her life that she is not close to anyone and her fear of becoming irrelevant and forgotten. And that only I had the ability to do anything about that- not her, because she is limited, not my kids, because they are kids, that I was the one who would be able to change that for her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I could've written this (though my mom is a native english speaker and still acts like what you describe). I'm so sorry. My mom has told me something is wrong with my child because she cried when she was 3 because she was scared of the dark. Told me I should take her to a psychologist and that I'm not a good parent.

My DD also has a MUCH stronger relationship with my ILs. I'm grateful for it, but it breaks my heart too. My ILs would spend every weekend with her, but my parents never ask to see her. Even when they see her (with us present) they barely even speak to her and she's 7 now and can carry on a conversation (and does with other adults). They also don't seem to know what grade she is in. They show ZERO interest in her. And she notices now. She says her grandparents don't like her or care about her and then my parents have the nerve to complain that she likes my ILs better. Yeah, she does because they try with her. They talk to her, ask her to spend the night, do fun things with her, come to her activities, call her, etc. My parents do none of those things, so it's shocking to me that they are surprised.

Sorry, I don't have advice, just commiseration. All I've done is set boundaries big time and shut down the snarky comments. But honestly, it's not helped the situation, if anything they punish us all more because of it. But with a LOT of therapy, I've realized it's a them thing and I can't control their actions and I can't fix the situation. That's helped me achieve a little peace, but it's one of the most hurtful things I've ever had to deal with in my life.

How has therapy helped you? I feel like my therapy has only made it worse. One thing I have learned I need to be better at setting boundaries with criticism. But I feel as though my therapist keeps putting the onus on me to help my mom with her problems - to help be the bridge to develop the relationship with her grandchildren, to think more creatively about opportunities I can make to help develop that relationship, to help her through her end of life crisis and fear that she will be leaving this earth without feeling loved by her family. It seems like he does not want me to lose hope for a better connection with my mom. But it's been such a hard thing to hold on to.

I had a crappy session today. I felt like he 100 percent empathized more with my mom than with me. When I shared that I felt like I was going through a crisis, he said he thought it was my mom having the crisis.

PP that you quoted... you need a new therapist. My therapist has taught me that you don't owe crappy parents a relationship. I have not (and will not) go no contact, but we are very low contact and my parents come after me for that (all very selfishly, all about them, just wanting constant attention) and I've learned that I can't change how they feel and I need to protect myself and my DD first and foremost.

Even yesterday, my DD made a comment that her grandma (my mom) doesn't care about her because she saw my MIL do something thoughtful/kind for her. She asked me "why doesn't grandma do that too? it seems like she doesn't care about me." It's heartbreaking to hear a young kid say these things. But I ALWAYS validate her feelings. My mom truly thinks a young child should be making the effort with her (just like she thinks only I should make an effort in our relationship) and I can see just how screwed up that is.

I still feel conflicted and upset. My therapist suggested I take a trip to just see her on my own, without the kids, since that is what she really wants foremost, time with me. And to just sit and listen to her. I said, that's what I do all the time on our phone calls - she talks and talks for hours while I listen to her problems.

No one, especially a therapist, should encourage a one way relationship.

I think he is concerned about her. That she doesn't have emotional support and that I am her only lifeline and person that she feels comfortable talking to her problems to. He says I have a therapist I can talk to - she does not. I have resources available to me, she does not. I am able to go and drive to meet friends, while she does not. And it's clear she's very depressed and sad, so I think he is worried about her.

Maybe YOUR therapist should be worried about YOU

did your therapist say he was worried about her or are you extrapolating your feelings on to his observations? Or show you how you are in a good position to take care of your life?

I’m basing it off all of his responses. They were all things I could be doing for her to satisfy her needs. And he was explaining that she had no one else she could rely on for what I could provide to her. And that this was an existential crisis for her, realizing at this late hour of her life that she is not close to anyone and her fear of becoming irrelevant and forgotten. And that only I had the ability to do anything about that- not her, because she is limited, not my kids, because they are kids, that I was the one who would be able to change that for her.

At the beginning of the therapy, it WAS one of my core goals to improve my relationship with my mom before it was too late. It has been a year, and I don’t think we have gotten any closer to that goal. And now I am questioning whether it should be my goal at all.

[Anonymous]

New therapist stat! yikes at that advice.

[Anonymous]

Op again. After some reflection, I think I have more clarity. I have been acting as though my mom is a fully functioning capable adult. But because of her advancing age, depression, and anxiety, I have to accept that she is no longer that anymore. She is someone that needs to be cared for and tended to, and provided opportunities for joy and connection, and make her feel loved and important- essentially what I do for my children. And I think that is what she meant when she said it made her feel sad when she saw me tending to my children’s needs and not hers. She has accepted her limitations and sees herself as my child, and as much as she still wants to be able to be more than that, she just isn’t capable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Op again. After some reflection, I think I have more clarity. I have been acting as though my mom is a fully functioning capable adult. But because of her advancing age, depression, and anxiety, I have to accept that she is no longer that anymore. She is someone that needs to be cared for and tended to, and provided opportunities for joy and connection, and make her feel loved and important- essentially what I do for my children. And I think that is what she meant when she said it made her feel sad when she saw me tending to my children’s needs and not hers. She has accepted her limitations and sees herself as my child, and as much as she still wants to be able to be more than that, she just isn’t capable.

In other words, she feels like my unloved child, whose needs never seem to come first. Who often experiences jealousy when she sees her grandchildren receive more attention from me than her. Who tries to earn my love and attention through acts of service like cooking meals, but never seems to get the same level of attention that I give to my children, who in her eyes do absolutely nothing to earn it. While I am arranging playdates and experiences for my children, she is feeling like the neglected child who does not enjoy doing any of those things and has to follow along and watch them have fun while she is ignored again.

And so... I have to realize I have another child to take care of now, at the same level that I take care of my own children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op again. After some reflection, I think I have more clarity. I have been acting as though my mom is a fully functioning capable adult. But because of her advancing age, depression, and anxiety, I have to accept that she is no longer that anymore. She is someone that needs to be cared for and tended to, and provided opportunities for joy and connection, and make her feel loved and important- essentially what I do for my children. And I think that is what she meant when she said it made her feel sad when she saw me tending to my children’s needs and not hers. She has accepted her limitations and sees herself as my child, and as much as she still wants to be able to be more than that, she just isn’t capable.

In other words, she feels like my unloved child, whose needs never seem to come first. Who often experiences jealousy when she sees her grandchildren receive more attention from me than her. Who tries to earn my love and attention through acts of service like cooking meals, but never seems to get the same level of attention that I give to my children, who in her eyes do absolutely nothing to earn it. While I am arranging playdates and experiences for my children, she is feeling like the neglected child who does not enjoy doing any of those things and has to follow along and watch them have fun while she is ignored again.

And so... I have to realize I have another child to take care of now, at the same level that I take care of my own children.

You don’t have to deal with her behavior. My therapist reminds me that my mom is mentally ill and I should approach all interactions with her with that in mind. So for me, that means very low contact and shutting things down when they get crazy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op again. After some reflection, I think I have more clarity. I have been acting as though my mom is a fully functioning capable adult. But because of her advancing age, depression, and anxiety, I have to accept that she is no longer that anymore. She is someone that needs to be cared for and tended to, and provided opportunities for joy and connection, and make her feel loved and important- essentially what I do for my children. And I think that is what she meant when she said it made her feel sad when she saw me tending to my children’s needs and not hers. She has accepted her limitations and sees herself as my child, and as much as she still wants to be able to be more than that, she just isn’t capable.

In other words, she feels like my unloved child, whose needs never seem to come first. Who often experiences jealousy when she sees her grandchildren receive more attention from me than her. Who tries to earn my love and attention through acts of service like cooking meals, but never seems to get the same level of attention that I give to my children, who in her eyes do absolutely nothing to earn it. While I am arranging playdates and experiences for my children, she is feeling like the neglected child who does not enjoy doing any of those things and has to follow along and watch them have fun while she is ignored again.

And so... I have to realize I have another child to take care of now, at the same level that I take care of my own children.

Normal, healthy and functional adults do not feel like their adult child's unloved child. Parentification is never healthy, even when the child is an adult. You make sure she is in a safe situation if she complies as she ages. Then you figure out your boundaries. Your kids and their development comes first. Some on here think that means I am saying ditch her. It simply means you need to get your priorities straight. You are not responsible for the mental health of your mom, but you are responsible for your actual children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op again. After some reflection, I think I have more clarity. I have been acting as though my mom is a fully functioning capable adult. But because of her advancing age, depression, and anxiety, I have to accept that she is no longer that anymore. She is someone that needs to be cared for and tended to, and provided opportunities for joy and connection, and make her feel loved and important- essentially what I do for my children. And I think that is what she meant when she said it made her feel sad when she saw me tending to my children’s needs and not hers. She has accepted her limitations and sees herself as my child, and as much as she still wants to be able to be more than that, she just isn’t capable.

In other words, she feels like my unloved child, whose needs never seem to come first. Who often experiences jealousy when she sees her grandchildren receive more attention from me than her. Who tries to earn my love and attention through acts of service like cooking meals, but never seems to get the same level of attention that I give to my children, who in her eyes do absolutely nothing to earn it. While I am arranging playdates and experiences for my children, she is feeling like the neglected child who does not enjoy doing any of those things and has to follow along and watch them have fun while she is ignored again.

And so... I have to realize I have another child to take care of now, at the same level that I take care of my own children.

Normal, healthy and functional adults do not feel like their adult child's unloved child. Parentification is never healthy, even when the child is an adult. You make sure she is in a safe situation if she complies as she ages. Then you figure out your boundaries. Your kids and their development comes first. Some on here think that means I am saying ditch her. It simply means you need to get your priorities straight. You are not responsible for the mental health of your mom, but you are responsible for your actual children.

That is my point... I have to accept that she is not a normal, healthy, and functional adult, because she is not. She suffers from depression and anxiety and she is aging and losing her cognitive and physical abilities. And in my culture, the adult children take care of their aging parents. It's just hard as sometimes I feel like I am barely capable of taking care of the children I have and it takes all my energy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here and another thing I suggested to my mom was to maybe spend time with another grandchild in our family who was more extroverted, clingy, and chatty so that she can get what she needs, since her personality is more what she is looking for in a grandchild. I suggested she offer to babysit for her parents. Again - she said this never occurred to her.

She thought they didn't want a babysitter because they like having their kid around all the time and that they ALWAYS bring her everywhere! And I explained that they bring her everywhere because they don't have a babysitter or cannot afford one and can't leave a young child at home by herself. And she said she never realized that, and thought the whole time they only brought her everywhere with them was because they liked to have her with them everywhere.

Oh wow. Rereading this, I just realized that's what my mom assumed about ME. She probably really wants to just spend time with just me so that I can listen to her problems and pay attention to her and take care of her. And she's annoyed I always bring the kids around who just depress her and make her feel worse, and take away my attention from her. And she assumed I just keep bringing them around because I want to always have them with me.

I think I just made all these assumptions about what she wanted. I don't even know anymore....

Your Chinese mother should get together with my Chinese mother.
The EXACT same dynamic and issues. I've spent way too much time thinking about this stuff too.
The problem is our mothers never adapted to a different culture. They expect the automatic adulation that old folks receive in China.
My mom is also an attention hog and I've long suspected she is jealous of my kids, that is, the attention I give my kids. When I see her without the kids, she is happy as a clam talking about herself.
I've also spent lots of time pondering why she's so unhappy and what she wants. It's taken me a few decades to understand that she doesn't know what she wants.

The sad reality is that their immigrant bubble here is also a temporal one. When they go back to Asia, they are also in a foreign land in terms of cultural values. Society in Asia has continued to evolve after they immigrated. Family dynamics have shifted from what they assumed. They don't feel at home there, and don't feel at home here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

At the beginning of the therapy, it WAS one of my core goals to improve my relationship with my mom before it was too late. It has been a year, and I don’t think we have gotten any closer to that goal. And now I am questioning whether it should be my goal at all.

Girl, this IS your relationship with your mother.
Responder with Chinese mom here too - she grew up with this drama and this is what a relationship looks like to her. Drama.
If you watch Chinese TV shows this is how families are represented. There is always domestic drama. Grandmother is never happy, she's always harping about the kids or the grandkids or the unsanitary takeout food or prices at the market. Something is always getting her goat up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here and another thing I suggested to my mom was to maybe spend time with another grandchild in our family who was more extroverted, clingy, and chatty so that she can get what she needs, since her personality is more what she is looking for in a grandchild. I suggested she offer to babysit for her parents. Again - she said this never occurred to her.

She thought they didn't want a babysitter because they like having their kid around all the time and that they ALWAYS bring her everywhere! And I explained that they bring her everywhere because they don't have a babysitter or cannot afford one and can't leave a young child at home by herself. And she said she never realized that, and thought the whole time they only brought her everywhere with them was because they liked to have her with them everywhere.

Oh wow. Rereading this, I just realized that's what my mom assumed about ME. She probably really wants to just spend time with just me so that I can listen to her problems and pay attention to her and take care of her. And she's annoyed I always bring the kids around who just depress her and make her feel worse, and take away my attention from her. And she assumed I just keep bringing them around because I want to always have them with me.

I think I just made all these assumptions about what she wanted. I don't even know anymore....

Your Chinese mother should get together with my Chinese mother.
The EXACT same dynamic and issues. I've spent way too much time thinking about this stuff too.
The problem is our mothers never adapted to a different culture. They expect the automatic adulation that old folks receive in China.
My mom is also an attention hog and I've long suspected she is jealous of my kids, that is, the attention I give my kids. When I see her without the kids, she is happy as a clam talking about herself.
I've also spent lots of time pondering why she's so unhappy and what she wants. It's taken me a few decades to understand that she doesn't know what she wants.

The sad reality is that their immigrant bubble here is also a temporal one. When they go back to Asia, they are also in a foreign land in terms of cultural values. Society in Asia has continued to evolve after they immigrated. Family dynamics have shifted from what they assumed. They don't feel at home there, and don't feel at home here.

Also, you are wasting money and time on therapy for what is mostly a cultural problem. Western therapy and values are inconsistent with your relationship with your East Asian parent. You are supposed to always be deferential to the elders and teach your children to do so as well. Bring them their tea, slippers, your kids are supposed to lightly hammer their sore backs with their little fists, take them to see the herbalist, big giant birthday party when they hit 80 (a big milestone), eat mooncake together during mid-autumn festival, burn incense at your ancestors alter. That sort of thing.
Talking to western therapists won't erase this vision of Asian old age that they've expected to slip into.
The hump your mother (and my mother) needs to get over is acknowledging and accepting that they left that culture when they immigrated and brought up their kids in America.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

At the beginning of the therapy, it WAS one of my core goals to improve my relationship with my mom before it was too late. It has been a year, and I don’t think we have gotten any closer to that goal. And now I am questioning whether it should be my goal at all.

Girl, this IS your relationship with your mother.
Responder with Chinese mom here too - she grew up with this drama and this is what a relationship looks like to her. Drama.
If you watch Chinese TV shows this is how families are represented. There is always domestic drama. Grandmother is never happy, she's always harping about the kids or the grandkids or the unsanitary takeout food or prices at the market. Something is always getting her goat up.

This made me laugh. This is my Jewish mother and she isn't even an immigrant. Can we ship them to some fancy residential place and they can all sit around together complaining?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

At the beginning of the therapy, it WAS one of my core goals to improve my relationship with my mom before it was too late. It has been a year, and I don’t think we have gotten any closer to that goal. And now I am questioning whether it should be my goal at all.

Girl, this IS your relationship with your mother.
Responder with Chinese mom here too - she grew up with this drama and this is what a relationship looks like to her. Drama.
If you watch Chinese TV shows this is how families are represented. There is always domestic drama. Grandmother is never happy, she's always harping about the kids or the grandkids or the unsanitary takeout food or prices at the market. Something is always getting her goat up.

This made me laugh. This is my Jewish mother and she isn't even an immigrant. Can we ship them to some fancy residential place and they can all sit around together complaining?

Right?! This is my white as can be mom. She just loves to complain and be pissy about something constantly.