Seeing OPP (other people’s parenting) up close

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^Ignore that poster, OP. Your stance re hiking in that heat is extremely reasonable. I do share other’s confusion about why you actually want to maintain a relationship with your sister, though. Was she a nice person to be around in the past? Hard to imagine she was functional before given the nightmare you are describing here.

Op here. I think I’ve just been slow to accept the situation. And we live far apart from each other.

I think one other aspect of this, if anyone is familiar with dysfunctional families, is our mother has narcissistic personality disorder. My sister is the golden child and I’m the scape goat. I’m estranged from my mother and was also estranged from my sister for several years.

Sister and mom had a falling out a couple of years ago. I sort of thought that maybe things in the family dynamic with my sister could shift because of that.

Well, if you’re the scapegoat you probably are invested subconsciously in trying to prove that you are blameless and lovable which would explain the odd attachment to this situation. No doubt there is a lot to weather here... but you seem emotionally to be walking on eggshells while also presenting an accommodating facade and also harboring some resentment.

I don’t know but probably some distance would help everyone. I understand wanting to make this “go well” as it is your only chance at family, but do you see that even if you were magically able to fix your sister’s parenting stress that would not make this relationship something you could depend on for nurturance and support?

Re: the parenting I would say that is the least of it and irrelevant. You have fixated on that because you are repeating a pattern of trying to take away someone’s stress so the interaction can be more satisfying for you.

That said, I personally think everyone judges each other’s parenting and no one can really say what it’s like to deal with that specific family situation unless you have been in it. We are big proponents of sleep training but we do eat healthy and don’t do screentime. Some might think that is high maintenance (but we aren’t as extreme as your sister), I personally wouldn’t want to deal with chronic constipation or screen addiction issues that other parents accept as part of the deals. There are pluses and cons to everything.

Op here. Wow. Just wow. Are you Spirit Reader or something? I’m not being sarcastic. Your first and second paragraph nailed it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^Ignore that poster, OP. Your stance re hiking in that heat is extremely reasonable. I do share other’s confusion about why you actually want to maintain a relationship with your sister, though. Was she a nice person to be around in the past? Hard to imagine she was functional before given the nightmare you are describing here.

Op here. I think I’ve just been slow to accept the situation. And we live far apart from each other.

I think one other aspect of this, if anyone is familiar with dysfunctional families, is our mother has narcissistic personality disorder. My sister is the golden child and I’m the scape goat. I’m estranged from my mother and was also estranged from my sister for several years.

Sister and mom had a falling out a couple of years ago. I sort of thought that maybe things in the family dynamic with my sister could shift because of that.

Well, if you’re the scapegoat you probably are invested subconsciously in trying to prove that you are blameless and lovable which would explain the odd attachment to this situation. No doubt there is a lot to weather here... but you seem emotionally to be walking on eggshells while also presenting an accommodating facade and also harboring some resentment.

I don’t know but probably some distance would help everyone. I understand wanting to make this “go well” as it is your only chance at family, but do you see that even if you were magically able to fix your sister’s parenting stress that would not make this relationship something you could depend on for nurturance and support?

Re: the parenting I would say that is the least of it and irrelevant. You have fixated on that because you are repeating a pattern of trying to take away someone’s stress so the interaction can be more satisfying for you.

That said, I personally think everyone judges each other’s parenting and no one can really say what it’s like to deal with that specific family situation unless you have been in it. We are big proponents of sleep training but we do eat healthy and don’t do screentime. Some might think that is high maintenance (but we aren’t as extreme as your sister), I personally wouldn’t want to deal with chronic constipation or screen addiction issues that other parents accept as part of the deals. There are pluses and cons to everything.

Op here. Wow. Just wow. Are you Spirit Reader or something? I’m not being sarcastic. Your first and second paragraph nailed it.

PP here. Lots of lifetimes as a scapegoat. Hi, friend.

I think we all have wake up calls to our own situation, and maybe this is yours.

The surprising thing is that when you let go of your end of the bargain, your sister will appear more sympathetic. She may also not have to act out her victimization and stress around you, leading finally to a better relationship. But the main thing is that you have to shift your focus from why she does X or Y and what you can do to help to your own feelings and patterns, seeking to better understand why you get caught in these loops. I have a lot of empathy for you as I understand you were not supported in your family and you have survived this to build a life you feel good about. Focus on that and meet your sister from that place. Good luck!

[Anonymous]

Op here. To PP scapegoat-can you recommend a book or something? I feel so seen. Thank you for weighing in.

[Anonymous]

So they are renting a car, and driving home “across the country”?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So they are renting a car, and driving home “across the country”?

Op here. They ended up flying home as scheduled yesterday.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Op here. To PP scapegoat-can you recommend a book or something? I feel so seen. Thank you for weighing in.

PP here. I don’t have any book about this specifically, sorry. I read various things on emotional awareness from a spiritual point of view like Tara Brach and Gary Zukav but that’s really general (and not sure if it would resonate with you). This is more just from me observing my own emotional reactions over the years and trying to get some clarity on where and why I get hung up.

It makes sense that if you’re rejected by your primary attachment figures you would spend your whole life trying to win them back. The blame you absorbed for the disconnect and dysfunction in your family leaves you feeling ambivalent — insecure and wondering if you’re deeply flawed, but also angry and resentful. Longing for love and also fighting the injustice that left you exiled. No one took responsibility in your family for themselves and that’s why you are trying so hard to take responsibility. That’s the dance you need to disengage from. In your relationship with your family of origin, pay attention to when those old feelings arise and try and figure out how to be authentic and truthful about your feelings. That’s the beginning of healing and truly distancing yourself from these patterns, because all you can be responsible for is yourself. This also stops you from enabling them. Being very honest with yourself as you did by saying, no I don’t want to go unless we leave at 8. And not being sucked into the guilt and blame, either way — not blaming them but just being clear with yourself about your own feelings and needs and making decisions that honor those.

You are in a healthy place now, with your children who love you and it sounds like a rich and full life. Wishing you healing, and most of all the knowledge that there’s nothing wrong with who you are — you’re fine just as you are! So too is your sister, and hopefully her journey takes her to a place of self-acceptance. Hugs to you.

[Anonymous]

Oh, and one thing that helped me is to understand that often the scapegoat is chosen because they are the most psychologically strong and don’t buy into the dysfunctional patterns in the family. That seems like cold comfort as they essentially sacrificed you and your visceral need for human belonging to their junk, but whatever... point is that the reason you have this place is not because something is wrong with you but because you had a healthier sense of self than others in the family. Use that to become very objective about your family. Understanding why they acted as they did, the sources of their patterns and limitations, will eventually give you more empathy for them and also help you not to take what happened personally: it wasn’t because something was wrong with you and your sister was the “good” one (which by the way can cause lingering jealousy and resentment).

[Anonymous]

OP read Not Nice by Aziz Gazipura. Life changing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP read Not Nice by Aziz Gazipura. Life changing.

Op here. Just ordered! Thank you!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op here. To PP scapegoat-can you recommend a book or something? I feel so seen. Thank you for weighing in.

PP here. I don’t have any book about this specifically, sorry. I read various things on emotional awareness from a spiritual point of view like Tara Brach and Gary Zukav but that’s really general (and not sure if it would resonate with you). This is more just from me observing my own emotional reactions over the years and trying to get some clarity on where and why I get hung up.

It makes sense that if you’re rejected by your primary attachment figures you would spend your whole life trying to win them back. The blame you absorbed for the disconnect and dysfunction in your family leaves you feeling ambivalent — insecure and wondering if you’re deeply flawed, but also angry and resentful. Longing for love and also fighting the injustice that left you exiled. No one took responsibility in your family for themselves and that’s why you are trying so hard to take responsibility. That’s the dance you need to disengage from. In your relationship with your family of origin, pay attention to when those old feelings arise and try and figure out how to be authentic and truthful about your feelings. That’s the beginning of healing and truly distancing yourself from these patterns, because all you can be responsible for is yourself. This also stops you from enabling them. Being very honest with yourself as you did by saying, no I don’t want to go unless we leave at 8. And not being sucked into the guilt and blame, either way — not blaming them but just being clear with yourself about your own feelings and needs and making decisions that honor those.

You are in a healthy place now, with your children who love you and it sounds like a rich and full life. Wishing you healing, and most of all the knowledge that there’s nothing wrong with who you are — you’re fine just as you are! So too is your sister, and hopefully her journey takes her to a place of self-acceptance. Hugs to you.

Op here. I’ve been compiling all your thoughts and saving them-just so helpful. You’re articulating things I know, and have known for so long, but have never had good language to explain. I’m so grateful for your time on this. This has been more helpful than any therapy session. I really appreciate your work to help a stranger out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op here. To PP scapegoat-can you recommend a book or something? I feel so seen. Thank you for weighing in.

PP here. I don’t have any book about this specifically, sorry. I read various things on emotional awareness from a spiritual point of view like Tara Brach and Gary Zukav but that’s really general (and not sure if it would resonate with you). This is more just from me observing my own emotional reactions over the years and trying to get some clarity on where and why I get hung up.

It makes sense that if you’re rejected by your primary attachment figures you would spend your whole life trying to win them back. The blame you absorbed for the disconnect and dysfunction in your family leaves you feeling ambivalent — insecure and wondering if you’re deeply flawed, but also angry and resentful. Longing for love and also fighting the injustice that left you exiled. No one took responsibility in your family for themselves and that’s why you are trying so hard to take responsibility. That’s the dance you need to disengage from. In your relationship with your family of origin, pay attention to when those old feelings arise and try and figure out how to be authentic and truthful about your feelings. That’s the beginning of healing and truly distancing yourself from these patterns, because all you can be responsible for is yourself. This also stops you from enabling them. Being very honest with yourself as you did by saying, no I don’t want to go unless we leave at 8. And not being sucked into the guilt and blame, either way — not blaming them but just being clear with yourself about your own feelings and needs and making decisions that honor those.

You are in a healthy place now, with your children who love you and it sounds like a rich and full life. Wishing you healing, and most of all the knowledge that there’s nothing wrong with who you are — you’re fine just as you are! So too is your sister, and hopefully her journey takes her to a place of self-acceptance. Hugs to you.

Op here. I’ve been compiling all your thoughts and saving them-just so helpful. You’re articulating things I know, and have known for so long, but have never had good language to explain. I’m so grateful for your time on this. This has been more helpful than any therapy session. I really appreciate your work to help a stranger out.

DP,

I’m glad you were able to get help and resources original poster. Might I gently suggest that if your therapist has not touched on the things this poster has been telling you regarding being a scapegoat and dealing with a narcissistic parent then you might want to look into finding a new therapist.

[Anonymous]

OP, 100% checked back in to make sure they'd left town. Look, your family of origin isn't your fault. I hope you get some well-deserved peace, and I am glad recent PP's very solid $.02 is helpful to you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op here. To PP scapegoat-can you recommend a book or something? I feel so seen. Thank you for weighing in.

PP here. I don’t have any book about this specifically, sorry. I read various things on emotional awareness from a spiritual point of view like Tara Brach and Gary Zukav but that’s really general (and not sure if it would resonate with you). This is more just from me observing my own emotional reactions over the years and trying to get some clarity on where and why I get hung up.

It makes sense that if you’re rejected by your primary attachment figures you would spend your whole life trying to win them back. The blame you absorbed for the disconnect and dysfunction in your family leaves you feeling ambivalent — insecure and wondering if you’re deeply flawed, but also angry and resentful. Longing for love and also fighting the injustice that left you exiled. No one took responsibility in your family for themselves and that’s why you are trying so hard to take responsibility. That’s the dance you need to disengage from. In your relationship with your family of origin, pay attention to when those old feelings arise and try and figure out how to be authentic and truthful about your feelings. That’s the beginning of healing and truly distancing yourself from these patterns, because all you can be responsible for is yourself. This also stops you from enabling them. Being very honest with yourself as you did by saying, no I don’t want to go unless we leave at 8. And not being sucked into the guilt and blame, either way — not blaming them but just being clear with yourself about your own feelings and needs and making decisions that honor those.

You are in a healthy place now, with your children who love you and it sounds like a rich and full life. Wishing you healing, and most of all the knowledge that there’s nothing wrong with who you are — you’re fine just as you are! So too is your sister, and hopefully her journey takes her to a place of self-acceptance. Hugs to you.

Op here. I’ve been compiling all your thoughts and saving them-just so helpful. You’re articulating things I know, and have known for so long, but have never had good language to explain. I’m so grateful for your time on this. This has been more helpful than any therapy session. I really appreciate your work to help a stranger out.

PP here. It felt like I unpacked and chewed this stuff for years without getting to the bottom of it, and then somehow for some reason this year I’ve been able to see it a bit more clearly. I just say that in case it feels like this has been gnawing at you forever! One day it will feel easier. We’ll probably be unpacking this for our whole lives, but I guess that is what is meant by “your challenges are your blessings” — and I’m sure you will be able to pass on the strength you gained from this to others. Wishing you the best.

[Anonymous]

Op here. Thanks again to everyone who responded. I’m reading Not Nice and hoping to get better at navigating these kinds of things.

I heard not one word from my sister since they left. We’d normally be in touch a couple times a week.

When she did finally reach out, we chatted and she literally acted as if the entire trip just didn’t happen. Not one reference to it, no thanks, no “we had so much fun”, etc. I think in her mind the trip was a disaster, even though I don’t exactly know why. I know she had sick kids but in the end it turned out to just be colds/ear infections which always happen when we’ve traveled, and we did end up doing all the things on her list of activities.

I wish I could just let this go but have been running the week over in my mind for weeks. Just why did it go so badly, what could I have done, why is it so hard.

Ultimately I guess it’s useful that I learned my lesson but I’m still kind of bitter about all the money I spent on the visit (food, baby gear, activity tickets, alcohol for them, etc.) and the leave I burned.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Op here. Thanks again to everyone who responded. I’m reading Not Nice and hoping to get better at navigating these kinds of things.

I heard not one word from my sister since they left. We’d normally be in touch a couple times a week.

When she did finally reach out, we chatted and she literally acted as if the entire trip just didn’t happen. Not one reference to it, no thanks, no “we had so much fun”, etc. I think in her mind the trip was a disaster, even though I don’t exactly know why. I know she had sick kids but in the end it turned out to just be colds/ear infections which always happen when we’ve traveled, and we did end up doing all the things on her list of activities.

I wish I could just let this go but have been running the week over in my mind for weeks. Just why did it go so badly, what could I have done, why is it so hard.

Ultimately I guess it’s useful that I learned my lesson but I’m still kind of bitter about all the money I spent on the visit (food, baby gear, activity tickets, alcohol for them, etc.) and the leave I burned.

Then say something to her !