Seeing OPP (other people’s parenting) up close

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you live near Los Angeles? We saw a lot of this when we lived there, maybe over 50% of families were into this nonsense, with the results being everyone was pretty unhappy.

Op here. Lol no but I do think they are very deep into their own interpretation of attachment parenting. The 2 yo is still up 3 times a night to nurse. And I’m not sure I’ve ever seen any of their kids go into timeout before. And yeah even on vacation my sister has to prep all their food. I shopped for her before they came and tried to get all her items but on a few I couldn’t (Costco didn’t have the organic butter, so I got non-organic and she rejected it).

I’m just so tired. We are on day 4. 3.5 days to go.

Oh my god. That is beyond messed up. I try not to judge people who extended breastfeed but to be waking up 3x a night at 2 is not healthy or normal christ

Op here. Yeah I had my sis walk me through a typical night. They also are unwilling to use night pull ups, and their 4 and 6 yo both wet the bed most nights so they are changing bedding in the middle of the night. Also the kids apparently each also wake up at least once a night and need comforting. So between the nursing, pee accidents, comforting, and sippy milk runs for the older kids, it’s basically every 45-90 minutes they are all up every single night.

Also none of her kids nap, so she doesn’t get a break at nap time either.

Can you guys suggest you watch the kids while they nap? I'm a much better parent and person when I'm well rested. Helping out while one naps will maybe show them the benefits of sleep. Is the husband going along with all of this? Does he seem miserable too?

She said that they don't nap.

Op here. I think what PP meant was to take their kids to allow my sister and BIL to take a nap haha. Which I think is a great idea, and I would have gladly done so, but their kids are pretty afraid of anyone who is not their mom or dad.

[Anonymous]

You really need to work with a therapist on how to disengage from all this. The fact that you think you could have done something to make this trip awesome is another reflection of magical thinking combined with some real issues of thinking you have responsibilities for things way beyond your control.

One of my mantras is “you can’t argue with crazy” — I simply don’t bother and it makes my life much, much easier.

You don’t need to spend any more time or effort on a completely toxic sibling.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You really need to work with a therapist on how to disengage from all this. The fact that you think you could have done something to make this trip awesome is another reflection of magical thinking combined with some real issues of thinking you have responsibilities for things way beyond your control.

One of my mantras is “you can’t argue with crazy” — I simply don’t bother and it makes my life much, much easier.

You don’t need to spend any more time or effort on a completely toxic sibling.

Op here. Thank you. I think you’re right. I might share your comment with my therapist because it is so articulate. I noticed during their visit that the more miserable they were, the more anxious I felt and the more I felt responsible, like the whole debacle was my fault. I did 4 loads of their laundry (including hang drying most items per my sister’s instructions), I bought them a crock pot (my sister said she needed it to make special foods for her 2 yo, and she doesn’t use Instapots which is what we have), I bought 2 humidifiers for their bedroom to try to see if it could help the kids feel better with their coughs, etc.

My sister had also given me lists with very specific food items for me to buy before they came (including a $40 bottle of wine and a $40 bottle of scotch-DH and I are teetotalers so I bought them but we won’t finish the scotch off). They ended up not eating/drinking 2/3 of the things she asked for. And she never offered to pay me for the items either....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You really need to work with a therapist on how to disengage from all this. The fact that you think you could have done something to make this trip awesome is another reflection of magical thinking combined with some real issues of thinking you have responsibilities for things way beyond your control.

One of my mantras is “you can’t argue with crazy” — I simply don’t bother and it makes my life much, much easier.

You don’t need to spend any more time or effort on a completely toxic sibling.

Op here. Thank you. I think you’re right. I might share your comment with my therapist because it is so articulate. I noticed during their visit that the more miserable they were, the more anxious I felt and the more I felt responsible, like the whole debacle was my fault. I did 4 loads of their laundry (including hang drying most items per my sister’s instructions), I bought them a crock pot (my sister said she needed it to make special foods for her 2 yo, and she doesn’t use Instapots which is what we have), I bought 2 humidifiers for their bedroom to try to see if it could help the kids feel better with their coughs, etc.

My sister had also given me lists with very specific food items for me to buy before they came (including a $40 bottle of wine and a $40 bottle of scotch-DH and I are teetotalers so I bought them but we won’t finish the scotch off). They ended up not eating/drinking 2/3 of the things she asked for. And she never offered to pay me for the items either....

Oh wow, OP. I’m happy they finally left and happy that you will discuss with your therapist. Hope the rest of your week is much better!

[Anonymous]

Sounds like none of them are getting enough sleep. Irritability. Behavior issues. Short temper. All related to sleep.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You really need to work with a therapist on how to disengage from all this. The fact that you think you could have done something to make this trip awesome is another reflection of magical thinking combined with some real issues of thinking you have responsibilities for things way beyond your control.

One of my mantras is “you can’t argue with crazy” — I simply don’t bother and it makes my life much, much easier.

You don’t need to spend any more time or effort on a completely toxic sibling.

Op here. Thank you. I think you’re right. I might share your comment with my therapist because it is so articulate. I noticed during their visit that the more miserable they were, the more anxious I felt and the more I felt responsible, like the whole debacle was my fault. I did 4 loads of their laundry (including hang drying most items per my sister’s instructions), I bought them a crock pot (my sister said she needed it to make special foods for her 2 yo, and she doesn’t use Instapots which is what we have), I bought 2 humidifiers for their bedroom to try to see if it could help the kids feel better with their coughs, etc.

My sister had also given me lists with very specific food items for me to buy before they came (including a $40 bottle of wine and a $40 bottle of scotch-DH and I are teetotalers so I bought them but we won’t finish the scotch off). They ended up not eating/drinking 2/3 of the things she asked for. And she never offered to pay me for the items either....

you definitely need to discuss boundaries why one earth would you buy all that crap?

[Anonymous]

I don’t think your sister is the only one who specializes in inviting misery.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think your sister is the only one who specializes in inviting misery.

Yes, it sounds like you also have anxiety that turns into doing things that most people would never do. I’m not suggesting that what you are doing is as extreme as your sister — but it might be worth examining the pattern.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think your sister is the only one who specializes in inviting misery.

Yes, it sounds like you also have anxiety that turns into doing things that most people would never do. I’m not suggesting that what you are doing is as extreme as your sister — but it might be worth examining the pattern.

Op here. Yes. For me it is a pattern. I’ve gotten better but have more work to do clearly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You had a bad attitude and bad energy from the start, no wonder this ended so poorly. You sound stand-offish and a know it all. I feel bad for your sister, what even was the point of this? You were going to complain and nitpick no matter what.

+1 OP's sister sounds like she has problems for sure, BUT I'm also getting pregnant OP and her husband and 3 children did not jump on a PLANE (how expensive for all of them! and risky bc of covid...) for no reason. I am picturing that OP's sister for better or worse wants a relationship with OP, and OP puts in no effort so OP's sister desperately pulled out all the stops to come see her and it didn't work. I mean, it sounds like they shouldn't/can't have a relationship anyway, but to me it sounds like OP's sister has good intentions and OP is just a selfish, standoff-ish person.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Oh OP, I am the PP that said your sister is abusing her family (probably a consequence of her untreated mental illness). The fact that your mother had NPD make this make so much sense. I’m very concerned though that you made this attempt with someone who is so messed up. You need to do some reflection and shift your thinking about why you would engage with her on this level. Seems desperate, and I get it, but you need boundaries until she is better or gets treatment. Just focus on your kids and family. The most important thing you can do to keep this awful pattern from repeating.

You and another poster above seem to imply that OP somehow made it out of their home environment "normal" while her sister became "crazy." No. OP guaranteed has problems, too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You had a bad attitude and bad energy from the start, no wonder this ended so poorly. You sound stand-offish and a know it all. I feel bad for your sister, what even was the point of this? You were going to complain and nitpick no matter what.

+1 OP's sister sounds like she has problems for sure, BUT I'm also getting pregnant OP and her husband and 3 children did not jump on a PLANE (how expensive for all of them! and risky bc of covid...) for no reason. I am picturing that OP's sister for better or worse wants a relationship with OP, and OP puts in no effort so OP's sister desperately pulled out all the stops to come see her and it didn't work. I mean, it sounds like they shouldn't/can't have a relationship anyway, but to me it sounds like OP's sister has good intentions and OP is just a selfish, standoff-ish person.

*guessing, not getting

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You had a bad attitude and bad energy from the start, no wonder this ended so poorly. You sound stand-offish and a know it all. I feel bad for your sister, what even was the point of this? You were going to complain and nitpick no matter what.

+1 OP's sister sounds like she has problems for sure, BUT I'm also getting pregnant OP and her husband and 3 children did not jump on a PLANE (how expensive for all of them! and risky bc of covid...) for no reason. I am picturing that OP's sister for better or worse wants a relationship with OP, and OP puts in no effort so OP's sister desperately pulled out all the stops to come see her and it didn't work. I mean, it sounds like they shouldn't/can't have a relationship anyway, but to me it sounds like OP's sister has good intentions and OP is just a selfish, standoff-ish person.

Please ignore this and the PP they quoted. You are not the problem. Your sister flew to see you but made you go grocery shopping and wouldn’t let you cook in your own house. That’s crazy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You had a bad attitude and bad energy from the start, no wonder this ended so poorly. You sound stand-offish and a know it all. I feel bad for your sister, what even was the point of this? You were going to complain and nitpick no matter what.

+1 OP's sister sounds like she has problems for sure, BUT I'm also getting pregnant OP and her husband and 3 children did not jump on a PLANE (how expensive for all of them! and risky bc of covid...) for no reason. I am picturing that OP's sister for better or worse wants a relationship with OP, and OP puts in no effort so OP's sister desperately pulled out all the stops to come see her and it didn't work. I mean, it sounds like they shouldn't/can't have a relationship anyway, but to me it sounds like OP's sister has good intentions and OP is just a selfish, standoff-ish person.

Op here. I agree that flying with three young kids across the country while pregnant is a genuinely Herculean task. We bought their plane tickets using airline miles so it wasn’t a big expense for them.

I’m not sure I agree that they did it somehow “for me” or that my sister desperately wants a relationship. She cut me off for 5 years, remember? Like literally would not take my calls and wouldn’t see me when I went to her home town.

I think they came because they wanted to see us and have the cousins get together, for sure. I also think they wanted to take a vacation. They live in a townhouse in a much larger city in a northern state. We live out in the desert on an acreage and we have a pool, hot tub, horses, trampoline, quads, jungle gym, zip line, power wheels, etc. I think they wanted a vacation and this was an affordable way to go do something fun. But it just didn’t work well for lots of reasons.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^Ignore that poster, OP. Your stance re hiking in that heat is extremely reasonable. I do share other’s confusion about why you actually want to maintain a relationship with your sister, though. Was she a nice person to be around in the past? Hard to imagine she was functional before given the nightmare you are describing here.

Op here. I think I’ve just been slow to accept the situation. And we live far apart from each other.

I think one other aspect of this, if anyone is familiar with dysfunctional families, is our mother has narcissistic personality disorder. My sister is the golden child and I’m the scape goat. I’m estranged from my mother and was also estranged from my sister for several years.

Sister and mom had a falling out a couple of years ago. I sort of thought that maybe things in the family dynamic with my sister could shift because of that.

Well, if you’re the scapegoat you probably are invested subconsciously in trying to prove that you are blameless and lovable which would explain the odd attachment to this situation. No doubt there is a lot to weather here... but you seem emotionally to be walking on eggshells while also presenting an accommodating facade and also harboring some resentment.

I don’t know but probably some distance would help everyone. I understand wanting to make this “go well” as it is your only chance at family, but do you see that even if you were magically able to fix your sister’s parenting stress that would not make this relationship something you could depend on for nurturance and support?

Re: the parenting I would say that is the least of it and irrelevant. You have fixated on that because you are repeating a pattern of trying to take away someone’s stress so the interaction can be more satisfying for you.

That said, I personally think everyone judges each other’s parenting and no one can really say what it’s like to deal with that specific family situation unless you have been in it. We are big proponents of sleep training but we do eat healthy and don’t do screentime. Some might think that is high maintenance (but we aren’t as extreme as your sister), I personally wouldn’t want to deal with chronic constipation or screen addiction issues that other parents accept as part of the deals. There are pluses and cons to everything.