17 year old son planning on tricking us to spend night with gf -gf’s parents away

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The posters citing concerns about statutory rape are almost certainly misguided. First, in many, if not most, states a 16 year old has reached the age of consent. Second, many states require there to be a significant age gap even if one party has not reached the broader age of consent. A 17 year old sleeping with a 16 year old would not realistically face legal consequences for consensual behavior.

This is not true. Don't you watch the news?

NP I think that when you look in to it, you will see that pp is right. In most states this would be a non issue. I can't speak for all states but I can't name even one where this would be a problem. But you can read up on it and let us know which state this would be a problem in.

Any state where mom and dad catch her and she says something went on with an older boy that she didn’t consent to. He doesn’t have to be convicted of anything for there to be problems. He just needs her parents to make a stink. I’m very feminist but really surprised more parents of sons aren’t concerned about Me Too in 2019 and talking to their kids about protecting themselves from “misunderstandings”. We are past “boys will be boys” in 2019.

Sorry. It could get ugly, but if the girl is 16 and the boy is 18 it is not illegal. And since the daughter willingly let him in, it isn't any kind of trespassing either. It's just arguably bad decision making or poor morals (I don't necessarily agree with this) and something to fight about.

This is atrocious legal advice.

It's not legal advice. It's saying that in MD/DC/VA there is no law against a 16 yo and 18 yo having consensual sex. If you are paranoid about someone crying "rape" that is another issue.

You're just wrong about this.

https://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/title18.2/chapter8/section18.2-371/

OP’s kid is 17. Even VA has a close in age exemption for 15 and 17 year old’s. It’s not statutory rape much as some fear mongers wish it were.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here.
I came home. I will taken the car keys and his card for lying and ignoring texts for 2 weeks and I will ground him for NYE.

This is just one of many things he’s done in the past 6 months that have confounded us and this is not the worst. I want to maintain my relationship with him but it’s not too late to teach him to respect rules while he’s under our roof and while we will be paying almost $60k per year in tuition (plus goodness knows for room and board and living) for the next 4 years for him plus whatever post grad will be. I think he’s had life too easy.
It’s sad because he really has been such a good boy until now and an excellent scholar. I don’t know what’s become of him but it’s not good. He just does not seem to care about anything anymore. It’s so unlike him that I just don’t know how to deal with it. How do you start imposing consequences at 17?
I don’t know. I know I sound over emotional but the extent to which his behavior has changed, even though it may not seem that terrible to most people (no drugs and such) , is really marked.

If you really feel he is entitled. Skip paying for Graduate School. Nothing wrong with him having some skin in the game. Not to mention he will own it. Also, he should have a job in college starting junior year at least. Time management skills are important and at $60,000 with not being grateful he should participate in the financial portion. It's a great life lesson. And a leg up when he graduates.
Get him condoms. Yes, many won't agree with this, but being proactive in this situation might be a good idea.

He's not that at typical for a 17 year old boy trying to grow up under house rules. Which you should have not disagreeing.

Whether or not you pay for graduate school does not need to be decided now, or at least it won't have any impact on his attitude and behavior. Do you expect him to react, "No graduate school, oh no! I better shape up and listen to my parents."

I get it that it has come as a shock that at 17 he is all of a sudden a different kid, but this is probably the first time what he wants (being with his girlfriend) has come in direct conflict with your values and rules. That doesn't mean you throw up your hands and think, well he will be out on his own in another 6 months. This means you need to impose consequences for the first time. You already lost control the minute you agreed to delaying the family trip and gave him the message that the boundaries you have set up and available to be torn down.

Sit him down, with your husband, and tell him the way he has been behaving for the past 6 months is unacceptable and not the kid you knew. Explain exactly what is unacceptable: the lying, the bad attitude, the lack of concern for his siblings and ask him how he sees things.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The posters citing concerns about statutory rape are almost certainly misguided. First, in many, if not most, states a 16 year old has reached the age of consent. Second, many states require there to be a significant age gap even if one party has not reached the broader age of consent. A 17 year old sleeping with a 16 year old would not realistically face legal consequences for consensual behavior.

This is not true. Don't you watch the news?

NP I think that when you look in to it, you will see that pp is right. In most states this would be a non issue. I can't speak for all states but I can't name even one where this would be a problem. But you can read up on it and let us know which state this would be a problem in.

Any state where mom and dad catch her and she says something went on with an older boy that she didn’t consent to. He doesn’t have to be convicted of anything for there to be problems. He just needs her parents to make a stink. I’m very feminist but really surprised more parents of sons aren’t concerned about Me Too in 2019 and talking to their kids about protecting themselves from “misunderstandings”. We are past “boys will be boys” in 2019.

Sorry. It could get ugly, but if the girl is 16 and the boy is 18 it is not illegal. And since the daughter willingly let him in, it isn't any kind of trespassing either. It's just arguably bad decision making or poor morals (I don't necessarily agree with this) and something to fight about.

This is atrocious legal advice.

It's not legal advice. It's saying that in MD/DC/VA there is no law against a 16 yo and 18 yo having consensual sex. If you are paranoid about someone crying "rape" that is another issue.

You're just wrong about this.

https://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/title18.2/chapter8/section18.2-371/

OP’s kid is 17. Even VA has a close in age exemption for 15 and 17 year old’s. It’s not statutory rape much as some fear mongers wish it were.

I understand that. I'm responding to the bolded part of PP's post. All that said, there's obviously a concern once OP's son turns 18.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP when you wrote this

"I fear I will come across as a maniac"

I thought there may be hope for you.

He is having sex with this girl and will continue to have sex with girls.

The rule about coming home, is ludicrous.

This post is from a man, for sure, but it's an eye-opener. I guess you can't put the toothpaste back in the tube.

Very much female, sorry. Female heterosexual who started having sex at 17 and now have kids in their early teens. The difference is I grew up in Europe where there are less purient attitudes and rules about sex between consenting teens.

[Anonymous]

I don’t know what’s right but here’s what MY mother would have done. She would have let him know that she had seen the plan, taken the keys, he would sit in his room and STFU cause you don’t pay bills here, I do and this isn’t a democracy.

[Anonymous]

Were none of you all a teenager in love?! A chance to be alone was EVERYTHING.

I would try and take a really deep breath and let him know you get it, but lying especially when her parents don’t approve is not good. I actually wouldn’t punish but try and reset your relationship to be different. And yes I have teenagers . Good luck OP!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was one of the posters with a son and daughter that mentioned statutory rape and really don’t care if it’s technically legal or not. I was thinking of DH and my reaction if we found out our teen daughter had her older BF sleep over when we were gone. Sure, maybe it wouldn’t be illegal but we’d try to make his life hell and hers. That’s what we’d be warning our son about. Angry parents.

I don’t know what we would do in your situation but I admire how calm you are being. I’m following for advice if we end up in a similar situation someday.

You can make your daughter’s life hell if you wish. But if you tried to make his hell for an entirely legal act, you would be the one facing charges for harassment.

Cool. One parents says an older boy took advantage of his DD. Another parent says his DS is being harassed and the slut wanted it. How do you think this plays out if the kids are in the same social circle or school?

Just because something is technically legal does not make it a good idea.

In that case, DD’s parents would be viewed as whack jobs for harassing a kid (and viewing any sexual activity by DD has “taking advantage of” and they could face actual legal jeopardy because what they would be doing is illegal. And DS’s parents wouldn’t say she was a slut and it is twisted of you to look at it this way.

You seem to have significant hang ups with female sexuality.

All of you are proving my point. It can get messy and I want both my son and daughter to avoid this type of mess. Parents can be crazy with emotions and it’s best not to be involved with lies and staying overnight at their ages.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is the OP. First of all thanks for all the very helpful perspectives.
To address the texts issue, he said his phone crashed and he’d lost access to the Appleid-this was the day before. He asked me for the password and I sent it to him. When he reconnected his texts started coming to my phone just at the time he was making his plans. At first I though they were my 9 year old’s texts which do come to my phone but I saw some non-9year old language popping up so I opened the texts.
I sort of panicked to be honest. I didn’t want him to know I’d read his texts. He’s become so so prickly these days and Im walking on egg shells all the time. I was nervous about telling him. We’d just had a huge huge argument just 2 days prior because he simply refused to go on our long planned family holiday and told us the day we were supposed to leave. His sisters (11 and 9, who think the world of him) were in tears begging him to come. He was adamant -clearly because he’d planned all these events with his gf while her parents were away. To cut a very long and painful story short, his sisters really wanted him to be with us so we rescheduled the trip but it was a very ugly situation -his sisters crying and begging him to come, us reasoning that it was a planned family holiday and he should prioritize family etc. but he just stood there uncaring and sticking to his guns which is so unlike him-he’s such a soft, kind hearted boy.
Anyway we had formed an uneasy truce (the protecting the relationship before they leave ) so I just did not want to bring the texts up. I changed the settings in my phone so I could no longer see his texts and just reminded him before he left that he needed to be home by 12 because he insisted on taking his car and that if he felt he would break the 12 curfew to leave his car and uber home. He said he would definitely be back by 12 and, because he’d also said in the texts that he did not feel comfortable carrying out the plans, which is more in line with his usual behavior, I thought he’d rethought them and decided against them.
At 12:15 I get a text saying he’s spending the night at his friend’s. My antennae were immediately raised because of what I’d read in the texts. I reminded him that sleepovers were always off the table and that he could hang out for a while since he said there were other friends there but to be home by 2.
I saw the dots appear when someone is about to reply but he clearly decided to just ignore me and he never responded so I called and he didn’t answer. I sent a text saying I was not going to bother home anymore but that I expected him home by 2 or to expect to stay home for NYE. Again I saw the dots but no reply came. That was why I went to the friend’s house.
Anyway as you all know I decided to come back home.
He arrived home at 11 am all antagonistic about the texts I’d sent him “after he’d fallen asleep”. He said he did nothing wrong, that he’d told me he was spending the night and had promptly fallen asleep.
I know he is lying because I know he saw my texts evidenced by the dots that appear when the respondent is replying (I saw them after both texts but no reply arrived) but he chose to ignore me. I have no real proof that he slept at his gf’s house except the texts. It’s conceivable that they all (gf included) slept at the friend’s house. It is also a conceivable that he executed his original plan and left the phone at his friend’s and collected it this morning or that his friend drove it to him and he simply drove home. I don’t know.

I haven’t yet responded to him. I told him I was tired and would discuss later.
I have no idea what to do. Give him the benefit of the huge doubt and accept that he slept at his friend’s and just penalize for not responding to my texts when I know he received them so that he could spend the night -which is a hard rule at our house except if it’s a designated vacation away with friends?
This is my first go round. I do not want to push him away but I do not want him to think he can flaunt all rules because he’s going on 18 in 9 months. I know it’s normal for teens to rebel but his rebellion covers a lot of things here and I had not even considered the statutory rape issue. I just thought it was disrespectful to defy her parents and stay when they had specifically said he could not.

I am stumped.

I though you said the car was parked outside the girlfriend's house. That combined with the texts describing the plan, would be proof enough for me. Plus, him getting angry at you for texting when he was "asleep" shortly after he texted you is classic gaslighting.

I don't knwo what the right asnwer is re consequences and yoru future relationship. But your dithering about what happened, and "proof," is what is giving him the opening to deceive you and act this way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP when you wrote this

"I fear I will come across as a maniac"

I thought there may be hope for you.

He is having sex with this girl and will continue to have sex with girls.

The rule about coming home, is ludicrous.

This post is from a man, for sure, but it's an eye-opener. I guess you can't put the toothpaste back in the tube.

Very much female, sorry. Female heterosexual who started having sex at 17 and now have kids in their early teens. The difference is I grew up in Europe where there are less purient attitudes and rules about sex between consenting teens.

Do you mean "prurient?"

[Anonymous]

Call the friend's parents and see if he stayed there. You know he was at the girlfriend's and you need to follow through with consequences. For future sleep overs you contact all parents and make sure they are approving it and if child doesn't sleep over they call. He played you. Lying is not ok.

[Anonymous]

He may be 18, but as long as you are paying his expenses he needs to respect your wishes. Its pretty simple. If he wants to play I'm 18, he needs to move out and pay his own expenses and bills. Every last one including phone.

[Anonymous]

I don't understand the rule of no sleepovers after a party. OP or any posters wanna explain it to me?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:He may be 18, but as long as ...

OP's DS is 17

[Anonymous]

God, what kind of teenage experiences did you guys have?

When I was 17 I did this exact thing. I spent the night at my boyfriends when his mom was out of town. Yes, we had sex. [many times, not just that specific night]

We are celebrating our 25th anniversary this year. I don't think it was awful what we did.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:God, what kind of teenage experiences did you guys have?

When I was 17 I did this exact thing. I spent the night at my boyfriends when his mom was out of town. Yes, we had sex. [many times, not just that specific night]

We are celebrating our 25th anniversary this year. I don't think it was awful what we did.

+!