When the Other Woman meets your kids

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I think this was well stated. It's absolutely vital to tell the kids the truth because they will ask why they are divorcing. Why is dad living with Suzie? Why do I have to share my dad and toys with Suzie's kids? Etc. Etc.

One can be honest, but not giving out marriage details or as someone suggested not using your child as a therapist. That's totally wrong. So is bad mouthing the other parent - the kids will form their own opinions.

If he ends up with the AP I don't see a reason OP would have to talk to her. Only talk to the ex about the kids.

For the last time: Because your kid is not your therapist. Because this is how most conversations would go:

Mom: dad is living with Suzie because he slept with her and I kicked him out
Dad: I slept with Suzie because mom cut-off all physical affection
Mom: I cut off affection because dad didn't meet my emotional needs
Dad: I was busy working because mom decided to downscale at work and ran up some unnecessary spending

You get the point. Seriously, there are always two sides to this. Your kid isn't the ref. Grow up.

I agree. I was never talking about that, nor wrote you should say those things to kids.

Only if the kids asked I would simply say dad didn't want to be married anymore. We're getting divorced and Suzie is at his house because that's who he's been dating.

Lie by omission is still a lie and your kid will not appreciate being lied to. They will learn to lie instead of putting all the cards on the table like an mature adult.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I think this was well stated. It's absolutely vital to tell the kids the truth because they will ask why they are divorcing. Why is dad living with Suzie? Why do I have to share my dad and toys with Suzie's kids? Etc. Etc.

One can be honest, but not giving out marriage details or as someone suggested not using your child as a therapist. That's totally wrong. So is bad mouthing the other parent - the kids will form their own opinions.

If he ends up with the AP I don't see a reason OP would have to talk to her. Only talk to the ex about the kids.

For the last time: Because your kid is not your therapist. Because this is how most conversations would go:

Mom: dad is living with Suzie because he slept with her and I kicked him out
Dad: I slept with Suzie because mom cut-off all physical affection
Mom: I cut off affection because dad didn't meet my emotional needs
Dad: I was busy working because mom decided to downscale at work and ran up some unnecessary spending

You get the point. Seriously, there are always two sides to this. Your kid isn't the ref. Grow up.

I agree. I was never talking about that, nor wrote you should say those things to kids.

Only if the kids asked I would simply say dad didn't want to be married anymore. We're getting divorced and Suzie is at his house because that's who he's been dating.

Lie by omission is still a lie and your kid will not appreciate being lied to. They will learn to lie instead of putting all the cards on the table like an mature adult.

You can be honest without unloading on them. If they don't like Suzie or her kids then yes address that honestly and what the solution is. It also depends on their age and maturity. I never said you should lie to them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I "poisoned" my kids against their dad and the lying scuzzy other woman. I told them exactly what they did. Kids were appalled and stopped speaking to him. They were high schoolers so I just said so sorry dad missed your game, he was too busy screwing his girlfriend.
Despite all the protestations on the DCUM, it worked great. All our friends took my side.

Ex gave up and just sends the checks now. We are all happier. I hear that marriage is on the ricks now, too!

My mom pretty much did this - poisoned us against our dad, denied him access, eventually he gave up. So she "won". Yay. I can see, with the benefit of adult perspective, that this inflicted severe, long-lasting psychological damage on me and my brother. I have never told her this, and she'd no doubt emit a huge cloud of annoying self-justification if I did. So please, don't do this to your kids, however much it feels like "winning" to you in the short term.

Why shouldn't you take your mom's side? What is wrong with you?

What is WRONG is EXACTLY what you are saying here - demanding that kids "take a side". The other parent is STILL their parent, and will be for the kid's entire life, even if that parent is not a perfect person and even if you hate them.

Act in the interest OF YOUR CHILDREN not of your wounded pride and ego.

It's healthier for kids to know the truth about their parents and separate themselves from narcissism. This BS about respect a person just because they share DNA is not healthy. Act like a good person if you want respect. Sometime kids need to learn healthy boundaries, like staying away from toxic people.

Yes but marriage is complicated and sometimes a bad husband is not a bad father. My mother did this. My father and her had a horrible relationship and he cheating all through the marriage. He left her for another woman and she told us not to speak to him. We didn’t for many years. We made up with him on and off and when we were on, we had issues but he was always there for us. Our mother put us in awful situations - she wouldn’t even speak to him which I understand but we did not deserve to be in the middle. Now we have made up with our father because we have kids of our own. I can tell you unwaveringly if this happened in my life I would never poison my kids because of what my mom did. Unless my husband is a danger to my children, they would see him and have a relationship with him.

You actually don't know what your mom saved your from back when you were a child because you had no relationship. Men mellow with age and it's good he eventually mellowed. Maybe it's because your mom didn't put up with his sh*t and realized he needed to chill if he wanted a relationship with you. Maybe your relationship with him is because of your mom, not despite.

No my mother didn’t save me from his shit. She used us as a weapon to punish him. I don’t think my mother is evil. I know what happened to her was awful. But she needed to get help and get therapy. Not use us to get back at him. Even to this day she obsesses about him.

Is that what your therapist thinks?

Infidelity is a major traumatic betrayal that often causes PTSD. This has only been recognized in the last 10-15 years. I doubt your Mom had any support in the culture or from therapists when this happened to her. In fact, many people, therapists included, probably just blamed her for the infidelity. What looks like "obsessing" to you can actually be "hypervigilance", which is actually a normal reaction to an abnormal situation. Add to that that repeated contact with the perpetrator (your Dad) probably just repeated and extended the trauma over the years.

Perhaps you could have a little more understanding for your Mom? Your notion that she "needed to get help and get therapy" is right, but realize at that time, there probably was no effective help and therapy. I dealt with major repeated infidelity about 15 years ago, and even then there was no effective help available. As a mother, I have to say, looking back, that what our culture actually asks of us, is to continue to expose ourselves to abusive partners while remaining silent about that abuse. It's not easy, nor should it be required - not even for our children. I agree with the other PP, that you really don't know what your Mom protected you from.

BTW, you recognize that a guy who cheats extensively so as to break the marriage is not someone who "was always there for us", right?

I am the pp and I agree with a lot of what you said. However, now that I am married and have kids, I do not think a marriage is black and white. I was always on my mothers side. Always. But after marriage I realize there is a lot of gray. I do not think she is to blame but I do think that he should have left earlier than he did. Withholding sex in a marriage, being manipulative etc are all negative traits and flaws that would cause me to leave. He should have left because of this but not by cheating I agree 100 percent. I think you all call spout your opinions but unless you are in the situation you don’t realize how BOTH parents, the cheater and the one who poisons your mind, can effect you. You feel abandoned by one that cheated but then you also feel abandoned by the one who poisons your mind only focuses on their pain. I had my siblings and I am thankfully for them everyday as we made it work due to each other.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
But that is not how it actually plays out ... it plays out like this.

Kid: I met Suzie.
Mom: Oh, okay how was it?
Kid: <are we really going to pretend>
Mom: Okay, I know about Suzie, I'm sorry I did not warn you.
Kid: Yea, it was terrible and the only parent I trust now lied to me.

or

Mom: Your going to dads, your going to meet Suzie... she is dad's girlfriend.
Kid: Since when
Mom: Since a while ago.
kid: crying
Mom: I know it 's hard but dad made a mistake and now this is our life and we will work it out.
Kid: I don't want to go
Mom: I know it sucks, be nice, go to your room and read when it's too much.

Kid: You cheated on mom
Dad: mom is a bitch and bad in bed.
Kids: <okay you are a psycho, enjoy the nursing home>

Kid: Dad actually said you were a bitch and bad in bed
Mom: Well I guess I'm better off without him and you know exactly what I've dealt with for years.
Kid: That sucks
Mom: Yep! But we move on from "sucks"

You really have some weird, unrealistic fantasies. Does it help you feel better when you replay them over and over in your head?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
But that is not how it actually plays out ... it plays out like this.

Kid: I met Suzie.
Mom: Oh, okay how was it?
Kid: <are we really going to pretend>
Mom: Okay, I know about Suzie, I'm sorry I did not warn you.
Kid: Yea, it was terrible and the only parent I trust now lied to me.

or

Mom: Your going to dads, your going to meet Suzie... she is dad's girlfriend.
Kid: Since when
Mom: Since a while ago.
kid: crying
Mom: I know it 's hard but dad made a mistake and now this is our life and we will work it out.
Kid: I don't want to go
Mom: I know it sucks, be nice, go to your room and read when it's too much.

Kid: You cheated on mom
Dad: mom is a bitch and bad in bed.
Kids: <okay you are a psycho, enjoy the nursing home>

Kid: Dad actually said you were a bitch and bad in bed
Mom: Well I guess I'm better off without him and you know exactly what I've dealt with for years.
Kid: That sucks
Mom: Yep! But we move on from "sucks"

You really have some weird, unrealistic fantasies. Does it help you feel better when you replay them over and over in your head?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Equating cheating with hitting a child is completely wrong. I'm married and my husband is not a cheater, so I don't have a personal dog in this fight. But, it does a real disservice to children who have been actually abused to equate the two. There is a reason that cheating does not lead to loss of custody or removal from the home.

No, naming one form of abuse does not diminsh the seriousness of other forms. Cheating is a serious form of emotional abuse that often causes complex PTSD in the victim. Emotional abuse and physical abuse can’t be ranked: one is not better or worse than the other.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Equating cheating with hitting a child is completely wrong. I'm married and my husband is not a cheater, so I don't have a personal dog in this fight. But, it does a real disservice to children who have been actually abused to equate the two. There is a reason that cheating does not lead to loss of custody or removal from the home.

No, naming one form of abuse does not diminsh the seriousness of other forms. Cheating is a serious form of emotional abuse that often causes complex PTSD in the victim. Emotional abuse and physical abuse can’t be ranked: one is not better or worse than the other.

I’m sorry but no. Banging your secretary takes a far second to throwing your wife down a staircase.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Equating cheating with hitting a child is completely wrong. I'm married and my husband is not a cheater, so I don't have a personal dog in this fight. But, it does a real disservice to children who have been actually abused to equate the two. There is a reason that cheating does not lead to loss of custody or removal from the home.

No, naming one form of abuse does not diminsh the seriousness of other forms. Cheating is a serious form of emotional abuse that often causes complex PTSD in the victim. Emotional abuse and physical abuse can’t be ranked: one is not better or worse than the other.

I’m sorry but no. Banging your secretary takes a far second to throwing your wife down a staircase.

+1. Also, it obviously really sucks to be cheated on, but I’m not going to believe this “complex PTSD” equates to the likes of what war veterans, etc. experience. That cheapens the very real trauma of those people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I "poisoned" my kids against their dad and the lying scuzzy other woman. I told them exactly what they did. Kids were appalled and stopped speaking to him. They were high schoolers so I just said so sorry dad missed your game, he was too busy screwing his girlfriend.
Despite all the protestations on the DCUM, it worked great. All our friends took my side.

Ex gave up and just sends the checks now. We are all happier. I hear that marriage is on the ricks now, too!

My mom pretty much did this - poisoned us against our dad, denied him access, eventually he gave up. So she "won". Yay. I can see, with the benefit of adult perspective, that this inflicted severe, long-lasting psychological damage on me and my brother. I have never told her this, and she'd no doubt emit a huge cloud of annoying self-justification if I did. So please, don't do this to your kids, however much it feels like "winning" to you in the short term.

Why shouldn't you take your mom's side? What is wrong with you?

What is WRONG is EXACTLY what you are saying here - demanding that kids "take a side". The other parent is STILL their parent, and will be for the kid's entire life, even if that parent is not a perfect person and even if you hate them.

Act in the interest OF YOUR CHILDREN not of your wounded pride and ego.

It's healthier for kids to know the truth about their parents and separate themselves from narcissism. This BS about respect a person just because they share DNA is not healthy. Act like a good person if you want respect. Sometime kids need to learn healthy boundaries, like staying away from toxic people.

Yes but marriage is complicated and sometimes a bad husband is not a bad father. My mother did this. My father and her had a horrible relationship and he cheating all through the marriage. He left her for another woman and she told us not to speak to him. We didn’t for many years. We made up with him on and off and when we were on, we had issues but he was always there for us. Our mother put us in awful situations - she wouldn’t even speak to him which I understand but we did not deserve to be in the middle. Now we have made up with our father because we have kids of our own. I can tell you unwaveringly if this happened in my life I would never poison my kids because of what my mom did. Unless my husband is a danger to my children, they would see him and have a relationship with him.

You actually don't know what your mom saved your from back when you were a child because you had no relationship. Men mellow with age and it's good he eventually mellowed. Maybe it's because your mom didn't put up with his sh*t and realized he needed to chill if he wanted a relationship with you. Maybe your relationship with him is because of your mom, not despite.

No my mother didn’t save me from his shit. She used us as a weapon to punish him. I don’t think my mother is evil. I know what happened to her was awful. But she needed to get help and get therapy. Not use us to get back at him. Even to this day she obsesses about him.

Is that what your therapist thinks?

Infidelity is a major traumatic betrayal that often causes PTSD. This has only been recognized in the last 10-15 years. I doubt your Mom had any support in the culture or from therapists when this happened to her. In fact, many people, therapists included, probably just blamed her for the infidelity. What looks like "obsessing" to you can actually be "hypervigilance", which is actually a normal reaction to an abnormal situation. Add to that that repeated contact with the perpetrator (your Dad) probably just repeated and extended the trauma over the years.

Perhaps you could have a little more understanding for your Mom? Your notion that she "needed to get help and get therapy" is right, but realize at that time, there probably was no effective help and therapy. I dealt with major repeated infidelity about 15 years ago, and even then there was no effective help available. As a mother, I have to say, looking back, that what our culture actually asks of us, is to continue to expose ourselves to abusive partners while remaining silent about that abuse. It's not easy, nor should it be required - not even for our children. I agree with the other PP, that you really don't know what your Mom protected you from.

BTW, you recognize that a guy who cheats extensively so as to break the marriage is not someone who "was always there for us", right?

I am the pp and I agree with a lot of what you said. However, now that I am married and have kids, I do not think a marriage is black and white. I was always on my mothers side. Always. But after marriage I realize there is a lot of gray. I do not think she is to blame but I do think that he should have left earlier than he did. Withholding sex in a marriage, being manipulative etc are all negative traits and flaws that would cause me to leave. He should have left because of this but not by cheating I agree 100 percent. I think you all call spout your opinions but unless you are in the situation you don’t realize how BOTH parents, the cheater and the one who poisons your mind, can effect you. You feel abandoned by one that cheated but then you also feel abandoned by the one who poisons your mind only focuses on their pain. I had my siblings and I am thankfully for them everyday as we made it work due to each other.

Was your dad excusing his cheating by blaming your mom for withholding sex? It sounded like it in your post, if that's the case he's not being honest. Nothing she did is a result of his cheating. At this point all you can do is tell her how you feel.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Equating cheating with hitting a child is completely wrong. I'm married and my husband is not a cheater, so I don't have a personal dog in this fight. But, it does a real disservice to children who have been actually abused to equate the two. There is a reason that cheating does not lead to loss of custody or removal from the home.

No, naming one form of abuse does not diminsh the seriousness of other forms. Cheating is a serious form of emotional abuse that often causes complex PTSD in the victim. Emotional abuse and physical abuse can’t be ranked: one is not better or worse than the other.

I’m sorry but no. Banging your secretary takes a far second to throwing your wife down a staircase.

I;m sorry but no. Throwing your wife down the stairs is a far second to having sex with kids.

See how that works.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Equating cheating with hitting a child is completely wrong. I'm married and my husband is not a cheater, so I don't have a personal dog in this fight. But, it does a real disservice to children who have been actually abused to equate the two. There is a reason that cheating does not lead to loss of custody or removal from the home.

No, naming one form of abuse does not diminsh the seriousness of other forms. Cheating is a serious form of emotional abuse that often causes complex PTSD in the victim. Emotional abuse and physical abuse can’t be ranked: one is not better or worse than the other.

I’m sorry but no. Banging your secretary takes a far second to throwing your wife down a staircase.

+1. Also, it obviously really sucks to be cheated on, but I’m not going to believe this “complex PTSD” equates to the likes of what war veterans, etc. experience. That cheapens the very real trauma of those people.

But, obviously people with PTSD are cheapening the very real trauma of war heros that have lost their limbs and those paraplegics cheapen the lives of the actualy war dead.

Pain is not a competition.

[Anonymous]

Focus on how she treats your kids and what’s best for them. This woman really has done nothing to you - your ex husband broke his vows to you; she didn’t. And don’t be afraid to run into her! She has nothing on you and you have no reason to be nervous about seeing her. Feel sorry for her, if anything - she’s stuck with the jerk now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Focus on how she treats your kids and what’s best for them. This woman really has done nothing to you - your ex husband broke his vows to you; she didn’t. And don’t be afraid to run into her! She has nothing on you and you have no reason to be nervous about seeing her. Feel sorry for her, if anything - she’s stuck with the jerk now.

I agree with everything except "this woman has done nothing to you". It's mostly the husband's fault, but women with any sort of integrity do not have affairs with married men, and she is responsible for helping to break up a family.

Kill the b--- with kindness, OP, and remember, you're now free to find a decent guy and she's stuck with a crummy cheater. And once a cheater, always a cheater.

[Anonymous]

“Once a cheater, always a cheater” ahhhh the old adage the bitter women tell themselves to feel better about being a crappy, miserable, unfulfilling spouse! Sorry, it doesn’t always work that way! He may, in fact, find true happiness! Isn’t that a killer?

[Anonymous]

If I cheated on my wife, I would at least have the decency to break off the relationship with the OW.