Honestly interested in sending child away

[Anonymous]

Needs family therapy. It's grown beyond the underlying special need into something that is poisoning the whole family.

Anonymous wrote:Agree something is wrong in the tone of OP. Troll, depression?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We have a child that will be 11 in a few weeks. The following is honest sharing and I appreciate not being judged for it.

My child is not smart. She’s not good at anything. She has no interests. She is obsessed with sugar. She screams and loses her mind with us all the time.

We have tried meds, therapy groups, private school, executive function tutors...nothing works.

She refuses to accept blame and is only obsessed with blaming others for “making” her upset.

Example: she was losing her mind at the mall because I told her no when she asked for ice cream. She proceeded to scream and me the entire way to the car. Rather than put her little brother in the car with her screaming (again) I said she could calm down in the car and we would wait outside it.

A friend of hers from school and her parents drove by us and stopped to say hello. And heard her screaming. I told them she was having a meltdown.

She realized what was happening and freaked out because I told on her. Not that the only reason the whole situation existed was because of her choices.

Can a kid just be a bad person beyond repair?

We just want her out of our lives.

You say you have tried all this stuff, but none it will work if the bolded is true. What a cruel sentiment for any child, much less your own. Do you think she can’t tell that you think she’s stupid and not good at anything? There’s nobody who isn’t good at *anything.* Also her overreaction to the ice cream denial isn’t in any way indicative of a “sugar addiction.” Even if it were, she picked it up from somewhere.

I’m not trying to just blindly dismiss you, but what I read in this post makes me very, very sad.

[Anonymous]

I used to work on a child / adolescent inpatient psychiatric unit and we often had parents who were just 'done'. They were burned out and were in survival mode. They had moved their energy and emotion to their other kids or places where they felt it would be more productive. Often they had already tried so many things that they were initially not open to trying again because it just felt like prolonging the agony and they were pretty hopeless that doing things in a different way would make any difference. In about 80% of the cases, these were really loving, good parents who were just at the end of their rope. They had nothing left to give.

Outcomes varied. Some indicators of more chance of success were:

Intact families - biological parents and siblings. (Blended families were pretty much a lost cause)

Decently strong marriage where both parents are still supporting each other and trying to pull together.

Extra family / friend support - having a grandparent or aunt or cousin or best friend who can do relief work helped a lot.

Parents involved in therapy to work through their own feelings and to keep their marriage strong and to maintain their own sanity.

Willing to work with the team. Even checked out but open to listening was a place to start.

Self-reflection. Typically dynamics between every member of the family have to be explored - learning to do things differently doesn't mean anyone was doing anything wrong, just that there is another way to do it that might lead to a better outcome. Being able to consider doing things differently without being defensive or angry.

In some cases, it worked and in some cases it didn't. Some kids didn't go back home. They went into foster care or went to live with extended family or longer term institutional centers in rare cases.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP -- camp and boarding school are short-term fixes. That's just kicking the can down the road. If you really care about this child, you would: make sure she is in therapy, You are in therapy, She is on the right medications and she has a strict schedule and diet.

I'm not saying this from the perspective of someone who doesn't know. I have an autistic child at home. He can be brutal to deal with and I sometimes don't like him. But I love him and do all of the above things for my child... even sent him to private school when public wasn't working out.

But... you haven't divulged yet whether you have tried these things. They are hard work. They involve more than monetary investment.

This is good advice, op. I would add looking into medication both for you and your kid.

You are obviously in crisis and are going through a lot. This board can bring out wise words as well as the crazies. Know you can link your post in website feedback and ask Jeff to lock or delete it if it's just too much or you've gotten the information you need.

[Anonymous]

Previous poster who sent myself to boarding school because of my brother:

I had an incredible experience at boarding school. The school I chose (I did all the research) was small and outdoorsy. It felt like a family environment. I was close to home and allowed to leave on weekends but I never left. It was exactly what I needed. Maybe you could find a place like this for your daughter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We have tried meds, therapy groups, private school, executive function tutors...nothing works.

OP could you elaborate on what you said here? It's hard for me to believe that this thread has gone on for 10 pages without you sharing more details about this. If you're not willing to share, then inpatient psych unit worker's post is the one for you to follow.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP here and ok the problem is multifaceted, so I'm just going to address two things here.

1) The sugar-addiction thing is real. What people eat matters, (not just for weight gain/loss and health, but also for mental health and moods)

The gut communicates with the brain. The gut is like a garden with different types of bacteria that digest different kinds of things. So if you are feeding it sugar (and carbs from grains), those bacteria multiply, and when they get hungry, they signal the brain. Another example--if you stop eating dairy, those bacteria die off and that's why it's hard to go back on dairy after being off it.

But the bacteria affect moods, too. There is an NIH study--google it--that links eating fermented foods to decrease in social anxiety. (So you eat a little every day, to build up that bacteria in your gut)

So getting off sugar is like getting off a drug. PART of what is going on is you've got a kid who keeps jonesing for sugar; she's going in/out of withdrawal. Many people have this with coffee--they need their morning coffee, not to actually wake up, but to get rid of the beginnings of caffeine withdrawal symptoms--they just *think* that feeling like crap in the morning is normal but they've got it backwards. Not having their coffee fix makes them feel like sh*t, not waking up in the morning. So their coffee alleviates it but keeps them on the caffeine cycle. (I've been addicted to sugar and to caffeine, and man, it's shocking when you're off it to compare it to the 'before' state. It's only then when you realize the difference.)

You have a situation like a big tangled mess, and you need to try and tease apart the threads. The sugar/carbs is one thread.

Going off sugar/carbs will give your kid "carboflu" for about a week. It's the withdrawl part. Pick a week where you are ready to handle it, and go do it. She's 11, so maybe when she's in a quiet moment (maybe after a sugar fix), you can tell her we're going to try this.

here is a very well-respected website and you can find how to get off sugar there: marksdailyapple.com. Mark Sisson, the founder, has a science background but makes research easy for the lay person to understand.

2) Every parent should learn the concept of the "extinction burst." It is this: The rat presses a lever and gets cheese every time. The rat learns this, and only presses the lever when it's hungry.

Then the experimenter changes the rules. The rat presses the lever and gets no cheese. WTF? No cheese? The rat presses the lever again. No cheese. Again. No cheese.

Suddenly, the rat goes NUTS---starts pressing the lever 1000 times, trying to get the cheese. No cheese. Just as suddenly, the rat gives up and does not press the lever again.

The 1000 times part is the "extinction burst" which is the burst of behavior before it quits (the extinction of behavior). The burst is the brain re-learning that the rules have changed, and learning the new rule. Here, the new rule is: Pressing Lever Is Waste of My Time and Gets Me Nothing.

So in changing any bad behavior, you HAVE to be prepared to ride out the extinction burst. If you give in, then you've created "intermittent reinforcement" which is the worst...gambling behavior.

Even though your DD is only 11, here is a book does a great job in explaining the adolescent brain and most importantly, how YOU the parent should behave so as to get the results you want in your kid "Yes, Your Teen is Crazy!" My very difficult DD peaked at difficulty at 13, and the peak came when I got this book and changed MY behavior. I could have used this book when she was 11. OP, you are unwittingly giving your kid dopamine hits by your behavior and once you understand this, you will find it's easy to stop doing that, and *after* a massive extinction burst that you will ride out, her behavior will improve.

No doubt a good diet can help mood, but it sounds like OP's problems are more complex than that. My kid throws tantrums, and will eat sugar by the spoonful if I let her, but she takes responsibility for her own behavior. An 11-year old banging her head against the ceiling and blaming her parents for finding this unacceptable is in a whole different league. This requires some sort of intensive therapy of a type that OP has not yet found.

Did you miss the PP from the nanny who said that her charge is seriously troubled, still not possible to be educated in a traditional environment, but behavior is a billion times better after a gluten-free diet with no processed crap and very limited sugar? Do you think that child is not "in a whole different league"? Do you think she's making it up, or imagining it? Do you think she's doing all that extra work for fun?

The reality is that good diet can help a LOT. And poor diet can do a LOT of damage. Across the entire spectrum of behavior.

I agree with the PP that sugar is like a drug. But I actually think it's far worse than that - it's also gluten and casein that have drug-like effects in the body. Apparently these substances are similar to opioids in structure and bind to those receptors in the brain. You don't need to be a genius to have concerns about whether that's really a desirable thing.

I think the OP has to decide whether she has the energy to try to really help her child and go through with a diet. Otherwise maybe some sort of military-style or fairly strict boarding school might be beneficial, since they'd be doing the heavy lifting keeping the kid away from the majority of the processed crap.

Sounds like they changed a lot more than diet over 4 years, and the kid still has to go to a psychiatrist weekly and attend an SN school, so yeah, diet alone just isn't going do it for many of our kids.

[b]

Nanny again- Yes the diet was just one of MANY changes. We have all worked so hard, especially the little child in my care. She doesn't want to scream and hit people and melt down in public. She wants to regulate her feelings and be able to express herself appropriately. I feel like my job is more than just a regular nanny job, it feels meaningful and I know every day I'm helping make a difference. When I arrived the older siblings of this child were just done with her and refused to speak to her. The parents couldn't be alone with her and they had 24/7 nannies and she had to be locked in her room at night. Now the lock is off, the weekend and evening nannies are gone and things are so much better. Diet was just one of many changes, but I notice how her mood is worse when she eats sugar and gluten, so that's why we always hike or exercise afterwards. We live in an area with excellent trails so that's a huge plus!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hi OP. I hope this will help. My parents sent me away to Shepard Pratt when I was about your daughter's age. I think I stayed around 90 days. I was not SN and I have a high IQ. My diagnosis was depression. I was treated with Prozac.

It was awful and my relationship with my parents never recovered. Even to this day I believe my diagnosis was off. I'll cop to OCD and an anxiety disorder, for sure. But not depression. It was basically like prison and I hated every moment of it. I felt shame, embarrassment and completely unloved.

The reason my parents sent me sound similar to yours. I was experiencing huge hormone shifts in addition to my OCD and anxiety and frankly, I had parents that had no clue how to help me deal with it. They were extremely rigid in their expectations and unwilling to find a way to work with me.

I look back on my life in amazement that I didn't end up worse off. Everything I've accomplished has been in spite of my traumatic upbringing and I know I could've been destined for much greater things with the help of a supportive and loving family. I mourn that loss every day.

It sounds like your needs were complex. That is not your fault, but not their fault either. It also sounds like they tried to get you professional treatment as a way of helping you. I’m sorry that it did not help and made you feel worse. Parents are not doctors, magicians, or therapists. They do not come trained to deal with complicated emotional issues. Perhaps there is more that your parents did to traumatize you that you haven’t shared. From what you have shared, it’s unclear how they failed you so dramatically. If there is something obvious that they missed, we would all benefit from hearing it, so that we can do better.

Um, they institutionalized her and had her medicated for a psychiatric disorder she doesn't have. That's pretty awful.

I am the PP that was institutionalized as a child. Thank you, and I assure you there's much more. My mother was verbally and emotionally abusive and my father was physically abusive. At around age 8 I called CPS to help me. That was a big mistake as I was punished severely for it. The social worker made one home visit and suggested some books and parenting classes before closing the case.

As a young adult my brother committed suicide and my other brother has made several attempts. They failed us all dramatically.

I was simply hoping to provide OP some insight based on my unique experience.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hi OP. I hope this will help. My parents sent me away to Shepard Pratt when I was about your daughter's age. I think I stayed around 90 days. I was not SN and I have a high IQ. My diagnosis was depression. I was treated with Prozac.

It was awful and my relationship with my parents never recovered. Even to this day I believe my diagnosis was off. I'll cop to OCD and an anxiety disorder, for sure. But not depression. It was basically like prison and I hated every moment of it. I felt shame, embarrassment and completely unloved.

The reason my parents sent me sound similar to yours. I was experiencing huge hormone shifts in addition to my OCD and anxiety and frankly, I had parents that had no clue how to help me deal with it. They were extremely rigid in their expectations and unwilling to find a way to work with me.

I look back on my life in amazement that I didn't end up worse off. Everything I've accomplished has been in spite of my traumatic upbringing and I know I could've been destined for much greater things with the help of a supportive and loving family. I mourn that loss every day.

Dp. How are you doing with the anxiety and ocd now, pp? Can you name some things your parents could have done to help you?

I'm doing much better, thank you. It took until my 30s to realize how much my environment impacts my symptoms. I must maintain a realitively stress free lifestyle to avoid medicating. I tried a slew of SSRIs, benzos, lithium, nutraceuticals, elimination diets... you name it. I reacted poorly to all of the pharmaceuticals. I have an excellent therapist and a supportive and understanding husband so I'm able to manage my symptoms on my own and have been doing so for the last 6 years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hi OP. I hope this will help. My parents sent me away to Shepard Pratt when I was about your daughter's age. I think I stayed around 90 days. I was not SN and I have a high IQ. My diagnosis was depression. I was treated with Prozac.

It was awful and my relationship with my parents never recovered. Even to this day I believe my diagnosis was off. I'll cop to OCD and an anxiety disorder, for sure. But not depression. It was basically like prison and I hated every moment of it. I felt shame, embarrassment and completely unloved.

The reason my parents sent me sound similar to yours. I was experiencing huge hormone shifts in addition to my OCD and anxiety and frankly, I had parents that had no clue how to help me deal with it. They were extremely rigid in their expectations and unwilling to find a way to work with me.

I look back on my life in amazement that I didn't end up worse off. Everything I've accomplished has been in spite of my traumatic upbringing and I know I could've been destined for much greater things with the help of a supportive and loving family. I mourn that loss every day.

Dp. How are you doing with the anxiety and ocd now, pp? Can you name some things your parents could have done to help you?

I'm doing much better, thank you. It took until my 30s to realize how much my environment impacts my symptoms. I must maintain a realitively stress free lifestyle to avoid medicating. I tried a slew of SSRIs, benzos, lithium, nutraceuticals, elimination diets... you name it. I reacted poorly to all of the pharmaceuticals. I have an excellent therapist and a supportive and understanding husband so I'm able to manage my symptoms on my own and have been doing so for the last 6 years.

Thank you for answering. I am glad you have found a way to manage your symptoms and I wish you continued good mental and emotional health.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hi OP. I hope this will help. My parents sent me away to Shepard Pratt when I was about your daughter's age. I think I stayed around 90 days. I was not SN and I have a high IQ. My diagnosis was depression. I was treated with Prozac.

It was awful and my relationship with my parents never recovered. Even to this day I believe my diagnosis was off. I'll cop to OCD and an anxiety disorder, for sure. But not depression. It was basically like prison and I hated every moment of it. I felt shame, embarrassment and completely unloved.

The reason my parents sent me sound similar to yours. I was experiencing huge hormone shifts in addition to my OCD and anxiety and frankly, I had parents that had no clue how to help me deal with it. They were extremely rigid in their expectations and unwilling to find a way to work with me.

I look back on my life in amazement that I didn't end up worse off. Everything I've accomplished has been in spite of my traumatic upbringing and I know I could've been destined for much greater things with the help of a supportive and loving family. I mourn that loss every day.

Dp. How are you doing with the anxiety and ocd now, pp? Can you name some things your parents could have done to help you?

I'm doing much better, thank you. It took until my 30s to realize how much my environment impacts my symptoms. I must maintain a realitively stress free lifestyle to avoid medicating. I tried a slew of SSRIs, benzos, lithium, nutraceuticals, elimination diets... you name it. I reacted poorly to all of the pharmaceuticals. I have an excellent therapist and a supportive and understanding husband so I'm able to manage my symptoms on my own and have been doing so for the last 6 years.

Thank you for answering. I am glad you have found a way to manage your symptoms and I wish you continued good mental and emotional health.

In terms of things my parents could have done, this is difficult as I don't think they were good parents fundamentally. As a parent myself, I don't believe any of my observations would help a typical parent. If I were advising my own parents, I would encourage them to allow is to go live with relatives. There were relatives willing to take me in on a permanent basis and I don't know why that option wasn't explored. I assume pride and ego got in the way, but I will never know.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Op. I have a difficult child as well. Loving them is one thing but they sure are hard to like sometimes. The impact on the whole family is tremendous.

ADHD is so hard and because it’s a spectrum, some kids have it easier than others.

I can tell you things to try but I’m sure you’ve done them all. I recently moved by child to a school with very clear boundaries and structure. It’s not boarding school. The first few weeks were really hard. But the staff is trainied to consistently follow through. Once my son understood that nothing he was doing would change their response, he started to settle down.

Being that consistent is hard at home. Mostly because you have other children that need you. You can’t be 100% focused on one child at all times.

Therapeutic boarding school does not sound bad. The kids I’ve known that have gone have really thrived. Have you considered a therapeutic day school setting? How is she doing behaviorally in school? Is she mainstreamed without support?

We are in Mont Cty and currently working with a great CBT. Each session she angers my son and then helps him to work through his anger. It took a few months for my son to trust her enough to lose his mind with her. She’s helping him learn to self regulate, understand that actions have consequences, and working with him to build up his self esteem and negate the negative speak.

I said I wouldn’t tell you what to do . But have you talked to her therapists about this? And what about finding a therapist for yourself? Someone, besides judgemental DCUM, that you can share your feelings with?

07:00, could you please share the school your child is at? Also the CBT you see? A lot of us are in the same boat and any info is greatly appreciated.

[Anonymous]

OP here, I assure you this isn’t a troll post.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here, I assure you this isn’t a troll post.

Your last line - that you just want her out of your lives - is heartbreaking. Your poor daughter. If her family doesn’t love her then who will? But at the same time, I’m sure it’s incredibky difficult. You need a new approach.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here, I assure you this isn’t a troll post.

Your last line - that you just want her out of your lives - is heartbreaking. Your poor daughter. If her family doesn’t love her then who will? But at the same time, I’m sure it’s incredibky difficult. You need a new approach.

FFS! Of course OP needs a new approach! Why do you think she's posting? What have you contributed to the discussion? Nothing! And, OP never said she didn't love her DD. Clearly, you've not been through anything like this because the twister is that you DO love your child even if you don't like her. If you didn't love her, it would be so much easier to make decisions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Be honest, OP - are you describing a step child?? Your total lack of empathy for anything about this child is chilling.

Sounds like step child or adopted.