What happens to extroverted, controlling, bossy little girls down the line?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes some people who didn't like my nieces behavior would say, "she's quite bossy isn't she". Others who found it amusing called her the future POTUS, a leader, etc. it's basically being rude and trying to control others behavior and it may be cute at 5 but it's not cute at 8 on. I think it was a sign of low self esteem to be honest. Also I guessed her parents were quite hard on her or they thought she was the greatest thing since sliced bread. Mixed messages. They also fought a lot and didn't have a loving kind relationship themselves. And they were very judge mental of others and I think that rubbed off on her. From probably 3rd grade on the girls started to exclude her and be mean and she stopped getting invited to things and it was really sad. I was sad for my brother too. Her behavior could be really embarrassing for them at times and then when she was excluded when she was older it was too late to do anything about it. You can't really go back and say to a 10 year old girl, hey you don't have any friends because you are mean to everyone. That can really do a number on them. Her self esteem was shot, and it was probably low to begin with if she needed to tell everyone what to do.

I was with you until this point.

OF COURSE you can go back to a 10 year old and help her take a new look at her behavior and it's impact on others.

OF COURSE you can help a 10 year old learn to be empathetic, kind, patient and a good friend.

You didn't read my comments thoroughly. I said in a previous post that she is an adult now and is a lovely person. But it was a hard road. she got sober young, at 23, was able to learn new behavior that led to self love. Glad she didn't have continue unhappily for decades. Happy ending to story but as I said, there were many unhappy years in her youth.

Kids (and adults) are way more resilient than you seem to think.

To think an unhappy and mean 10 year old is ruined for life and doomed to misery is nuts. Writing her off like that is perhaps one of the meanest things of all in my book.

Now, on the practical side, YES, of course it might not have been easy. Maybe it would have required her parents to pull their own $hit together and help her learn to be more kind and to behave in more kind ways. They could have done this in party by consistently modeling the necessary positive behavior (and the positive transformation) themselves in their interactions with her and with the world more generally. Kids learn first from their parents.

But it does not seem like that happened from what you said. So another option for her parents could have been to get her good professional help, which they apparently did not do.

Either way, I think it is insane to think a 10 year old has lost the opportunity to develop healthy and positive self esteem and a better way of interacting with others.

I think it's equally insane to think an ADULT has lost this opportunity!

FWIW, I've seen quite a few friends and colleagues pull themselves out of this particular ditch (low self esteem --> anti social behavior --> isolation --> depression --> low self esteem) well into their 20s, 30, and 40s. I've grown quite a bit in this area, as well, starting slowly in college and changing more dramatically in my early 30s.

In my experience, we are all capable of emotional growth at any age. It can be VERY hard work, depending on where we are when we start and what kind of support we find. But if our family of origin (parents) failed to step in earlier to help, there are still plenty of other influences that can -- therapists and support groups among them. It's not always quick or easy. But it's possible.

Just one example: My good friend of 20 years turned her life around 180 degrees 2 years ago. In part because she was finally ready to deal with her problems, and in part as a result of the personal support and psychological resources she found through AA. Not only did she stop drinking and otherwise self-medicating, she also discovered kindness and generosity within her that she never knew was there. As a friend, I always saw it in her underneath the drama (and the sometimes cringe-worthy behavior). But now it's more at the surface and her behavior is consistently kinder and more generous day in and day out. Yes, she still struggles. But the transformation is amazing. She managed to make a huge leap forward in her mid-40s. Better late than never, right?

So, please don't write off your niece. Don't assume that it's "too late" for her -- or anyone else you care about. Be there for anyone who wants to make a real change and is willing to do the hard work to get there. As the saying goes, where there's a will, there's a way.

Sorry. I wrote my comments in wrong place... Here they are


You didn't read my comments thoroughly. I said in a previous post that she is an adult now and is a lovely person. But it was a hard road. she got sober young, at 23, was able to learn new behavior that led to self love. Glad she didn't have continue unhappily for decades. Happy ending to story but as I said, there were many unhappy years in her youth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes some people who didn't like my nieces behavior would say, "she's quite bossy isn't she". Others who found it amusing called her the future POTUS, a leader, etc. it's basically being rude and trying to control others behavior and it may be cute at 5 but it's not cute at 8 on. I think it was a sign of low self esteem to be honest. Also I guessed her parents were quite hard on her or they thought she was the greatest thing since sliced bread. Mixed messages. They also fought a lot and didn't have a loving kind relationship themselves. And they were very judge mental of others and I think that rubbed off on her. From probably 3rd grade on the girls started to exclude her and be mean and she stopped getting invited to things and it was really sad. I was sad for my brother too. Her behavior could be really embarrassing for them at times and then when she was excluded when she was older it was too late to do anything about it. You can't really go back and say to a 10 year old girl, hey you don't have any friends because you are mean to everyone. That can really do a number on them. Her self esteem was shot, and it was probably low to begin with if she needed to tell everyone what to do.

I was with you until this point.

OF COURSE you can go back to a 10 year old and help her take a new look at her behavior and it's impact on others.

OF COURSE you can help a 10 year old learn to be empathetic, kind, patient and a good friend.

You didn't read my comments thoroughly. I said in a previous post that she is an adult now and is a lovely person. But it was a hard road. she got sober young, at 23, was able to learn new behavior that led to self love. Glad she didn't have continue unhappily for decades. Happy ending to story but as I said, there were many unhappy years in her youth.

Kids (and adults) are way more resilient than you seem to think.

To think an unhappy and mean 10 year old is ruined for life and doomed to misery is nuts. Writing her off like that is perhaps one of the meanest things of all in my book.

Now, on the practical side, YES, of course it might not have been easy. Maybe it would have required her parents to pull their own $hit together and help her learn to be more kind and to behave in more kind ways. They could have done this in party by consistently modeling the necessary positive behavior (and the positive transformation) themselves in their interactions with her and with the world more generally. Kids learn first from their parents.

But it does not seem like that happened from what you said. So another option for her parents could have been to get her good professional help, which they apparently did not do.

Either way, I think it is insane to think a 10 year old has lost the opportunity to develop healthy and positive self esteem and a better way of interacting with others.

I think it's equally insane to think an ADULT has lost this opportunity!

FWIW, I've seen quite a few friends and colleagues pull themselves out of this particular ditch (low self esteem --> anti social behavior --> isolation --> depression --> low self esteem) well into their 20s, 30, and 40s. I've grown quite a bit in this area, as well, starting slowly in college and changing more dramatically in my early 30s.

In my experience, we are all capable of emotional growth at any age. It can be VERY hard work, depending on where we are when we start and what kind of support we find. But if our family of origin (parents) failed to step in earlier to help, there are still plenty of other influences that can -- therapists and support groups among them. It's not always quick or easy. But it's possible.

Just one example: My good friend of 20 years turned her life around 180 degrees 2 years ago. In part because she was finally ready to deal with her problems, and in part as a result of the personal support and psychological resources she found through AA. Not only did she stop drinking and otherwise self-medicating, she also discovered kindness and generosity within her that she never knew was there. As a friend, I always saw it in her underneath the drama (and the sometimes cringe-worthy behavior). But now it's more at the surface and her behavior is consistently kinder and more generous day in and day out. Yes, she still struggles. But the transformation is amazing. She managed to make a huge leap forward in her mid-40s. Better late than never, right?

So, please don't write off your niece. Don't assume that it's "too late" for her -- or anyone else you care about. Be there for anyone who wants to make a real change and is willing to do the hard work to get there. As the saying goes, where there's a will, there's a way.

Sorry. I wrote my comments in wrong place... Here they are


You didn't read my comments thoroughly. I said in a previous post that she is an adult now and is a lovely person. But it was a hard road. she got sober young, at 23, was able to learn new behavior that led to self love. Glad she didn't have continue unhappily for decades. Happy ending to story but as I said, there were many unhappy years in her youth.

So glad to hear it! I obviously don't know her but was feeling extra sensitive when I wrote that last night. Sorry for my over-the-top response.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, is your DD allowed to get away with this behavior? Are theirrelevant boundaries that need to be observed in your family?

What? WTF? Seriously?

Little girls who are "bossy" are natural leaders. They have terrific, innate leadership skills. It's not something that she "gets away with." It's something that is a tremendous asset and which she needs to learn to harness to make the world a better place.

I think you're right and wrong. It's a skill but a defect. The bossiness comes from not caring about other people, which is what we call, lacking empathy. Most "natural leaders" are also very self-centered to the point of not caring whether or not they hurt others, and they often do, and are rewarded by it (people fear them, they get more social power, etc). Finally, most people hate bossy people. The kind of child that OP described is so annoying, and they grow into even more annoying adults - natural leader or not! If you're incapable of seeing this - well, you're probably one of those self-centered, annoying people we're talking about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't know where she got this from (just kidding- dad and I both have strong personalities and are go-getter types) but over the last year or two, my 5 year old's personality has really emerged, for better or worse.

-Extremely extroverted and thrives on social interaction.
-Kind, but intensely competitive at the same time
-Bossy- very, very, very bossy
-Very bright
-Analytical in the kindergartener sense- thinks about the "why's" and the "how's" and tries to get around things, very quick to point out rules/policies/actions that don't make sense to her

I'm curious if anyone had a little girl like this and what they ended up to be like as an adolescent or young adult. I am not sure how to encourage the good while also shutting down the bad. I have Sheryl Sandberg in the back of my head, saying that we shouldn't refer to little girls as bossy.. but she really is bossy, and I'm afraid this is going to hurt her socially. I guess I'm just not sure what to expect as a parent. I know there are plenty of other kids with this personality type, I just don't know any of them personally.

Thanks.

"All Grown Up and Nowhere to Go"
Read it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know where she got this from (just kidding- dad and I both have strong personalities and are go-getter types) but over the last year or two, my 5 year old's personality has really emerged, for better or worse.

-Extremely extroverted and thrives on social interaction.
-Kind, but intensely competitive at the same time
-Bossy- very, very, very bossy
-Very bright
-Analytical in the kindergartener sense- thinks about the "why's" and the "how's" and tries to get around things, very quick to point out rules/policies/actions that don't make sense to her

I'm curious if anyone had a little girl like this and what they ended up to be like as an adolescent or young adult. I am not sure how to encourage the good while also shutting down the bad. I have Sheryl Sandberg in the back of my head, saying that we shouldn't refer to little girls as bossy.. but she really is bossy, and I'm afraid this is going to hurt her socially. I guess I'm just not sure what to expect as a parent. I know there are plenty of other kids with this personality type, I just don't know any of them personally.

Thanks.

"All Grown Up and Nowhere to Go"
Read it.

Not OP, but thanks. This looks great.

Any other recommendations? The reviews of "All Grown Up" suggest it's a classic. But I'd also love to read something more recent that covers internet/social media and other newer twists. Anything else you'd recommend?