I'm making a choice that could break my family apart.

[Anonymous]

Can someone tell me in detail why the SIL says she has to move in with OP for the duration of the pregnancy??

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm not sure if someone already mentioned this, but what happens if there's something wrong with the baby? She's going to blame the OP for eternity -- it will be the OP's fault, she did something, etc.

I agree. Then ALL of the SIL's grief about not having a child will be dumped on OP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't even know what to say except:

1. She does not appear to be in a position to be a good mother
2. She does not appear to be in a marriage stable enough to bring a child into
3. She does not appear to be stable enough to handle having you as a surrogate

You need to back out,
No guilt.
This is not about you, she is obviously struggling and needs help

This, exactly. She seems unbalanced. You should have no guilt over your decision.

[Anonymous]

I've experienced infertility, though nowhere near the level of SIL's.

From my reading of OP's posts, it seems that SIL has issues with a loss of control in her life, which is completely understandable. So many things have happened to her that were beyond her control- her (his too?) infertility, the miscarriages, the late-term stillbirth, the inability to conceive and deliver a healthy child. Despite surrogacy being her only option remaining if she wants kids (since she declined to adopt), she probably is still struggling with the lack of control over that process too. Her list of demands are obviously an attempt to regain control. I believe that when her husband accepted the offer outright without even discussing with SIL, that obviously threw her over the edge. I think a lot of her reaction was due to her husband's (mis)handling of it. I'm not excusing her behavior but rather trying to understand it.

Having said all that, I would in no way become her surrogate or financially assist with other costs. Any child needs to be of her own making, either literally or figuratively, without OP's hand in the process.

Good luck, OP. I can't imagine how stunned you must've been.

[Anonymous]

Do other people wonder what would happen if SIL finds this thread?

[Anonymous]

Obviously I'm not in your shoes, but I think the only reasonable response to your SIL's terms is rather straight forward: your family of six is not in a position to house two additional adults for 10 months. It's simply not possible to be joyless and without discomfort during a pregnancy. Lastly, it is inhumane to command that you have no access to the child you just birthed. Even birth mothers in closed adoptions (which is not what this is) are allowed to hold the child - they may decline of course, but it's up to them at what hour they hand over the baby. And you will, in fact, be the aunt and with that comes plenty of mother-like instincts towards the child. To deny that, or try to pretend to decline that by omitting your title, is just an odd charade that serves no purpose and will fool no one.

Simply put, the terms are not possible. You can not in good faith agree to them. If that is truly what she needs, then a stranger SIL never meets will need to serve as the surrogate.

[Anonymous]

12:08 again. I actually think that the terms were purposely made so that OP would turn them down. SIL doesn't want OP to be her surrogate but BIL does. What better way to avoid the issue by making the terms so bizarre that OP will have to say no?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It sounds like your BIL did not discuss this with his wife ahead of time. Surrogacy is an emotional topic for some. My DH and BIL also made an insuation about me being a surrrogate for my SIL and she seemed very embarrassed and pissed when they made the comment about me carrying a baby for her. But there was no big blow out. It would be better if it were your SILs idea. She may want a child but maybe surrogacy is not something she is interested in. It sounds like BIL really wants a child though so maybe she feels pressured to produce a child to keep the marriage together. Either way you and your DH need to back away now and not further meddle in their fertility issues.

Reading comprehension would help so much in this thread. OP has stated several times that SIL/BIL are seeking surrogacy and cannot afford it because other treatments have depleted their savings.

Op never stated that. She only stated they couldn't afford surrogacy. This surrogacy idea seems like something the BIL is pushing which is probably why SIL flipped out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Some people here are being unbelievably harsh on SIL, but as the pp who called her an unstable person in an unstable marriage, I think a distinction needs to be made here. Just because someone is in incredible pain, pain that makes those who love her want to help, doesn't mean that the people who reach out need to take on that person's pain for her--which is what OP would be doing under SIL's restrictions. When the pain is this great that it spills over into everyone else in the family, the other family members really must have good boundaries to keep it from becoming their problem. Because this is not the MIL/FIL's problem or OP's family's problem, despite BIL and SIL's efforts to mitigate their own pain by engaging them in it. This is exactly exactly what therapy is for. I can't imagine that a couple that's been through this much infertility and loss would NOT be familiar with therapy.

While I think what OP has done is laudable, I think she did make one tactical error here, and that's springing the offer on BIL and SIL when all 4 were together. The suggestion should have been made brother to brother and rolled out more slowly "we're considering this but need to check with professionals," weeks later "we talked to a lawyer and think we can do it if XYZ," weeks later "we talked to a doctor and they say it's possible, do you want to get together and discuss how to proceed," etc. This would have given both families time to adjust independently to the idea before coming together to discuss. A lot of mess could likely have been avoided. Hindsight is 20/20 and OP shouldn't beat herself up over this, but honestly, what a shock that must have been for BIL and SIL.

I agree with what you wrote -- except for the suggestion that the BIL/SIL are the ones with the poor boundaries. It is OP who make the huge leap straight into the heart of their marriage & infertility & grief. She's the one who created this whole mess. Did the SIL respond rationally? No, she did not. But until the OP really realizes what she did (whether or not she meant to) she's not going to be able to work her way out of this. Remember, "the road to hell is paved with good intentions."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Some people here are being unbelievably harsh on SIL, but as the pp who called her an unstable person in an unstable marriage, I think a distinction needs to be made here. Just because someone is in incredible pain, pain that makes those who love her want to help, doesn't mean that the people who reach out need to take on that person's pain for her--which is what OP would be doing under SIL's restrictions. When the pain is this great that it spills over into everyone else in the family, the other family members really must have good boundaries to keep it from becoming their problem. Because this is not the MIL/FIL's problem or OP's family's problem, despite BIL and SIL's efforts to mitigate their own pain by engaging them in it. This is exactly exactly what therapy is for. I can't imagine that a couple that's been through this much infertility and loss would NOT be familiar with therapy.

While I think what OP has done is laudable, I think she did make one tactical error here, and that's springing the offer on BIL and SIL when all 4 were together. The suggestion should have been made brother to brother and rolled out more slowly "we're considering this but need to check with professionals," weeks later "we talked to a lawyer and think we can do it if XYZ," weeks later "we talked to a doctor and they say it's possible, do you want to get together and discuss how to proceed," etc. This would have given both families time to adjust independently to the idea before coming together to discuss. A lot of mess could likely have been avoided. Hindsight is 20/20 and OP shouldn't beat herself up over this, but honestly, what a shock that must have been for BIL and SIL.

I agree with what you wrote -- except for the suggestion that the BIL/SIL are the ones with the poor boundaries. It is OP who make the huge leap straight into the heart of their marriage & infertility & grief. She's the one who created this whole mess. Did the SIL respond rationally? No, she did not. But until the OP really realizes what she did (whether or not she meant to) she's not going to be able to work her way out of this. Remember, "the road to hell is paved with good intentions."

[Anonymous]

[quote=Anonymous]A PP here. I would not bow out saying it's the terms, because that could open the door for attempts to negotiate. Have your DH talk to his brother and explain that it was a bad idea and it's not going to work out. [/quote]

But it is the terms. SILs apology would have stood and op wouldn't be reconsidering if her terms had been more reasonable. If she comes around on them op might still be willing to help. But she will not be able to come around on them. She won't be able to live by OPs terms.

"This is too much to ask of our family. We want to help, but we can't host you for 9 months, turn off OPs emotions, and lie to our kids to do so, and we can't control what gifts our parents give you. We're willing to do x, y, and z, but you must be willing to work with us to make this this is minimally disruptive to our family."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Do other people wonder what would happen if SIL finds this thread?

Yes.

I really hope it doesn't happen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:12:08 again. I actually think that the terms were purposely made so that OP would turn them down. SIL doesn't want OP to be her surrogate but BIL does. What better way to avoid the issue by making the terms so bizarre that OP will have to say no?

Totally agree.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some people here are being unbelievably harsh on SIL, but as the pp who called her an unstable person in an unstable marriage, I think a distinction needs to be made here. Just because someone is in incredible pain, pain that makes those who love her want to help, doesn't mean that the people who reach out need to take on that person's pain for her--which is what OP would be doing under SIL's restrictions. When the pain is this great that it spills over into everyone else in the family, the other family members really must have good boundaries to keep it from becoming their problem. Because this is not the MIL/FIL's problem or OP's family's problem, despite BIL and SIL's efforts to mitigate their own pain by engaging them in it. This is exactly exactly what therapy is for. I can't imagine that a couple that's been through this much infertility and loss would NOT be familiar with therapy.

While I think what OP has done is laudable, I think she did make one tactical error here, and that's springing the offer on BIL and SIL when all 4 were together. The suggestion should have been made brother to brother and rolled out more slowly "we're considering this but need to check with professionals," weeks later "we talked to a lawyer and think we can do it if XYZ," weeks later "we talked to a doctor and they say it's possible, do you want to get together and discuss how to proceed," etc. This would have given both families time to adjust independently to the idea before coming together to discuss. A lot of mess could likely have been avoided. Hindsight is 20/20 and OP shouldn't beat herself up over this, but honestly, what a shock that must have been for BIL and SIL.

I agree with what you wrote -- except for the suggestion that the BIL/SIL are the ones with the poor boundaries. It is OP who make the huge leap straight into the heart of their marriage & infertility & grief. She's the one who created this whole mess. Did the SIL respond rationally? No, she did not. But until the OP really realizes what she did (whether or not she meant to) she's not going to be able to work her way out of this. Remember, "the road to hell is paved with good intentions."

I'm not sure why you think that's disagreeing with what I said, but whatever. I was just trying to be more delicate than to say "op brought this on herself"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

My SIL (husband's brother's wife) has spent the past 9 years dealing with infertility. Infertility that has involved some horrible loss, strain on her marriage and a scary depletion of finances. They are down to adoption or surrogate as their choices to have children. She and I have been close over the past 12 years that we have known each other. When she was first dealing with infertility she was very open about her issues then I noticed she'd talk about it less and less until we rarely talked about it at all. I knew about what was going on because DH's brother would tell him. They also suffered through two fairly late losses and one 34 week stillborn. Over the past few years I've spun the idea of offering to be her surrogate if it ever came to that. My youngest (I have and wanted four) is 7 months now and we are done having children. So my husband and I spoke with our lawyer and we spoke with a fertility specialist. We wanted to be sure we could and we wanted to before we offered.

Sounds like you assumed your SIL would want to use a surrogate and that it was mostly all your idea.