Jesus is a Liberal

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A lot of people are still dancing around the question. The following are diversions from the original post:

*Faith vs. works
*The Old Testament
*Paul and other people who are not actually Jesus
*Whether the absence of comment on pedophilia invalidates the premise of the original post

I think it is all too convenient to talk about these things, because then you don't have to look at what Jesus actually said about how people should live their lives.

Is anyone going to tackle Jesus' radical statements about wealth and poverty? He said that wealth is a barrier to heaven. Are people too afraid to examine this?

People always leave out Jesus's conclusion to this parable in Matthew 19v25 - 26

25When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, “Who then can be saved?” 26Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.” Basically humanly speaking, it is impossible (camel into eye of a needle and rich man into kingdom of God). But with God everything is possible.

Yes, but he told the man to give up his wealth. He didn't say "If you believe, it's OK to keep all of your money".

If the rich man believed his attitude to his money would change. It was the man's attitude to his money that was the problem not the money itself. If he truly accepted Christ's gift of salvation (saving faith), faith in Christ would become so important to him that if it were to be a choice between Christ and his $$, he would chose Christ. Money is not the root of all evil as people are want to misquote. The bible says that the LOVE of money is the root of all evil - 1 Timothy 6v10.

The man in the parable already believed in Jesus. That is the first part of the parable. And on top of it, Jesus asked him if he follows the commandments, and he says that he has. There is nothing in the parable to suggest that Jesus questioned his attitude toward his money. Jesus told him to get rid of his money. You can also read the above Luke 12 quote, where a man is admonished for accumulating wealth. There is no mention of his healthy or unhealthy love of it. The accumulation of food in a poor country was the sin.

I understand what 1 Tim 6 says, but Jesus was more specific and I do not think that this passage is more definitive than his direct teachings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here is more on Jesus and wealth:

Mt 6:24 “No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money."

Luke 6:24“But woe to you who are rich,
for you have already received your comfort.'

And then the parable of the rich fool, in which God admonishes a person who stores years' worth of food instead of giving it to others in need (Luke 12)

16 And he told them this parable: “The ground of a certain rich man yielded an abundant harvest. 17 He thought to himself, ‘What shall I do? I have no place to store my crops.’

18 “Then he said, ‘This is what I’ll do. I will tear down my barns and build bigger ones, and there I will store my surplus grain. 19 And I’ll say to myself, “You have plenty of grain laid up for many years. Take life easy; eat, drink and be merry.”’

20 “But God said to him, ‘You fool! This very night your life will be demanded from you. Then who will get what you have prepared for yourself?’

21 “This is how it will be with whoever stores up things for themselves but is not rich toward God.”

With all these parable it was the peoples' attitude to $$ that was wrong, not the money in and of itself. Their pride, reliance on self, not God, etc that follows wealth. And remember that Christ said Himself, with respect to the rich man entering the kingdom of God, that with God it is possible. God wants us all to be blessed financially but He does not want us to put that above serving Him. God is far more gracious than we give Him credit for. He is not out to get us. "Seek ye first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things will be added onto you" - and here the reference is to material possessions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A lot of people are still dancing around the question. The following are diversions from the original post:

*Faith vs. works
*The Old Testament
*Paul and other people who are not actually Jesus
*Whether the absence of comment on pedophilia invalidates the premise of the original post

I think it is all too convenient to talk about these things, because then you don't have to look at what Jesus actually said about how people should live their lives.

Is anyone going to tackle Jesus' radical statements about wealth and poverty? He said that wealth is a barrier to heaven. Are people too afraid to examine this?

People always leave out Jesus's conclusion to this parable in Matthew 19v25 - 26

25When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, “Who then can be saved?” 26Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.” Basically humanly speaking, it is impossible (camel into eye of a needle and rich man into kingdom of God). But with God everything is possible.

Yes, but he told the man to give up his wealth. He didn't say "If you believe, it's OK to keep all of your money".

If the rich man believed his attitude to his money would change. It was the man's attitude to his money that was the problem not the money itself. If he truly accepted Christ's gift of salvation (saving faith), faith in Christ would become so important to him that if it were to be a choice between Christ and his $$, he would chose Christ. Money is not the root of all evil as people are want to misquote. The bible says that the LOVE of money is the root of all evil - 1 Timothy 6v10.

The man in the parable already believed in Jesus. That is the first part of the parable. And on top of it, Jesus asked him if he follows the commandments, and he says that he has. There is nothing in the parable to suggest that Jesus questioned his attitude toward his money. Jesus told him to get rid of his money. You can also read the above Luke 12 quote, where a man is admonished for accumulating wealth. There is no mention of his healthy or unhealthy love of it. The accumulation of food in a poor country was the sin.

I understand what 1 Tim 6 says, but Jesus was more specific and I do not think that this passage is more definitive than his direct teachings.

You seem determined to believe the God wants us all to be poor and that he condemns wealth. Taking the bible as a whole and not just black and white interpretations of these parables (which might lead one to that conclusion) will make you realise that Jesus is most concerned about our hearts. The pharisees obeyed the law too but they did not have a saving faith. They were more concerned about the outward appearance rather than the heart. "Even the demons believe and tremble" but they are not saved. This man may have believed that Jesus was the messiah but he did not have saving faith in Him. That saving faith will bring about the change of heart that Jesus seeks. None of us will ever be perfect but God sees our hearts desire to do His will and that is what He desires of us. As the bible says, "love covers a multitude of sins".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here is more on Jesus and wealth:

Mt 6:24 “No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money."

Luke 6:24“But woe to you who are rich,
for you have already received your comfort.'

And then the parable of the rich fool, in which God admonishes a person who stores years' worth of food instead of giving it to others in need (Luke 12)

16 And he told them this parable: “The ground of a certain rich man yielded an abundant harvest. 17 He thought to himself, ‘What shall I do? I have no place to store my crops.’

18 “Then he said, ‘This is what I’ll do. I will tear down my barns and build bigger ones, and there I will store my surplus grain. 19 And I’ll say to myself, “You have plenty of grain laid up for many years. Take life easy; eat, drink and be merry.”’

20 “But God said to him, ‘You fool! This very night your life will be demanded from you. Then who will get what you have prepared for yourself?’

21 “This is how it will be with whoever stores up things for themselves but is not rich toward God.”

With all these parable it was the peoples' attitude to $$ that was wrong, not the money in and of itself. Their pride, reliance on self, not God, etc that follows wealth. And remember that Christ said Himself, with respect to the rich man entering the kingdom of God, that with God it is possible. God wants us all to be blessed financially but He does not want us to put that above serving Him. God is far more gracious than we give Him credit for. He is not out to get us. "Seek ye first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things will be added onto you" - and here the reference is to material possessions.

First, that is a distortion. Matthew 6 is about God providing food and clothing - not a fortune. Second, many of these earlier passages have nothing to do with love of money. He condemns the rich fool for merely collecting it. And earlier we saw the eye of a needle passage, where the rich man, already faithful and observant, is told to sell his possessions. Luke 6:24 doesn't say "woe to you who love your money more than me". It says "woe to the rich". Even Mt 6:24 is preceded by a quote Mt 6:19, in which Jesus says not to store treasures on earth. He doesn't say "don't get too attached to money". He says don't keep it to yourself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A lot of people are still dancing around the question. The following are diversions from the original post:

*Faith vs. works
*The Old Testament
*Paul and other people who are not actually Jesus
*Whether the absence of comment on pedophilia invalidates the premise of the original post

I think it is all too convenient to talk about these things, because then you don't have to look at what Jesus actually said about how people should live their lives.

Is anyone going to tackle Jesus' radical statements about wealth and poverty? He said that wealth is a barrier to heaven. Are people too afraid to examine this?

People always leave out Jesus's conclusion to this parable in Matthew 19v25 - 26

25When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, “Who then can be saved?” 26Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.” Basically humanly speaking, it is impossible (camel into eye of a needle and rich man into kingdom of God). But with God everything is possible.

Yes, but he told the man to give up his wealth. He didn't say "If you believe, it's OK to keep all of your money".

If the rich man believed his attitude to his money would change. It was the man's attitude to his money that was the problem not the money itself. If he truly accepted Christ's gift of salvation (saving faith), faith in Christ would become so important to him that if it were to be a choice between Christ and his $$, he would chose Christ. Money is not the root of all evil as people are want to misquote. The bible says that the LOVE of money is the root of all evil - 1 Timothy 6v10.

The man in the parable already believed in Jesus. That is the first part of the parable. And on top of it, Jesus asked him if he follows the commandments, and he says that he has. There is nothing in the parable to suggest that Jesus questioned his attitude toward his money. Jesus told him to get rid of his money. You can also read the above Luke 12 quote, where a man is admonished for accumulating wealth. There is no mention of his healthy or unhealthy love of it. The accumulation of food in a poor country was the sin.

I understand what 1 Tim 6 says, but Jesus was more specific and I do not think that this passage is more definitive than his direct teachings.

You seem determined to believe the God wants us all to be poor and that he condemns wealth. Taking the bible as a whole and not just black and white interpretations of these parables (which might lead one to that conclusion) will make you realise that Jesus is most concerned about our hearts. The pharisees obeyed the law too but they did not have a saving faith. They were more concerned about the outward appearance rather than the heart. "Even the demons believe and tremble" but they are not saved. This man may have believed that Jesus was the messiah but he did not have saving faith in Him. That saving faith will bring about the change of heart that Jesus seeks. None of us will ever be perfect but God sees our hearts desire to do His will and that is what He desires of us. As the bible says, "love covers a multitude of sins".

I'm not "determined". I'm concerned. I have money, and I am looking at Jesus' actual words.

Do you really feel that you can say with confidence, that the man in the parable didn't have "saving faith"? Read the story. He calls Jesus Teacher, he kept all of the commandments. I think it's a rationalization to say he had no saving faith. Jesus didn't say that, although he said it to many other people in the bible. He said to sell all of his possessions., and there is nothing to suggest that he didn't mean what he said.

Jesus does not merely care about what is in our hearts. He cares what we do. And he tells people to clothe the naked and feed the poor. He tells his followers to give up their money. He admonishes the people who don't. These are simple quotes, mirrored in several of the gospels. They are not cryptic. Who are we to say that they do not mean what they state?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here is more on Jesus and wealth:

Mt 6:24 “No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money."

Luke 6:24“But woe to you who are rich,
for you have already received your comfort.'

And then the parable of the rich fool, in which God admonishes a person who stores years' worth of food instead of giving it to others in need (Luke 12)

16 And he told them this parable: “The ground of a certain rich man yielded an abundant harvest. 17 He thought to himself, ‘What shall I do? I have no place to store my crops.’

18 “Then he said, ‘This is what I’ll do. I will tear down my barns and build bigger ones, and there I will store my surplus grain. 19 And I’ll say to myself, “You have plenty of grain laid up for many years. Take life easy; eat, drink and be merry.”’

20 “But God said to him, ‘You fool! This very night your life will be demanded from you. Then who will get what you have prepared for yourself?’

21 “This is how it will be with whoever stores up things for themselves but is not rich toward God.”

Studies show that liberals are less giving with money ,time and blood.

[Anonymous]

You will do anything to avoid discussing the words of Jesus.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here is more on Jesus and wealth:

Mt 6:24 “No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money."

Luke 6:24“But woe to you who are rich,
for you have already received your comfort.'

And then the parable of the rich fool, in which God admonishes a person who stores years' worth of food instead of giving it to others in need (Luke 12)

16 And he told them this parable: “The ground of a certain rich man yielded an abundant harvest. 17 He thought to himself, ‘What shall I do? I have no place to store my crops.’

18 “Then he said, ‘This is what I’ll do. I will tear down my barns and build bigger ones, and there I will store my surplus grain. 19 And I’ll say to myself, “You have plenty of grain laid up for many years. Take life easy; eat, drink and be merry.”’

20 “But God said to him, ‘You fool! This very night your life will be demanded from you. Then who will get what you have prepared for yourself?’

21 “This is how it will be with whoever stores up things for themselves but is not rich toward God.”

Studies show that liberals are less giving with money ,time and blood.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There are plenty of charities not church based that liberals could give time and money to. The just don't. The unpleasant facts I am learning from this thread are 1)liberals are tight with their money, time and blood (unless maybe the blood is tainted and they are barred from willingly giving it) 2) liberals don't go to church and therfore do not give. 3) even though God sent his Son to be tortured, ripped to the bone, crucified in a desparate measure of love and sacrifice but it was not necessary because liberals think there are tons of other ways to get to heaven. God really should have thought it through a little better before torturing his Son for no good reason. 4) Homosexuals favorite sex act is oral so even if God is not pleased with a reservior of reproductive matter lying dormant in the bowels of an adult male, they usually do oral so it's okay. 5)I have come to the quandry...why do liberals even care about christianity? Hanging out in a sex club would be a lot more fun than going to church.

Are you the same poster who said, if you don't believe in the trinity you are not a Christian? Your ignorance, hate and judgment of others are astonishing. Keep praying. I hope it will do you some good.

May you have all that you deserve.

[Anonymous]

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

[Anonymous]

"Homosexuals favorite sex act is oral"

How doyou know?

[Anonymous]

Once again, people are more comfortable sparring over everything but the topic: Jesus in His own words. Posters are scared of what that might mean. They would rather hide in safety of the herd with whatever group they belong to. Whether it's secular friends or the pastor who rails against sex but conveniently overlooks the radical economic message of Christ, they are just hoping that if they are just like everyone else then they will get into heaven.

But Jesus expects more than you doing what everyone else does. He wants you to listen to him and the plan he has for you.

I say that as a very liberal Christian. The message of Jesus is radical by even today's standards. Wake up!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've always thought Jesus was the ultimate leftist hippie radical... and that's a good thing.

"What would Jesus Drive"? Gimme a break. He would hike, ride Greyhound, and hitchhike his way around. He would eschew any material goods.

Unless it's J. Crew.

Hello, that is no Jesus. Jesus purportedly had hair of the texture of wool and a bronze skin tone. That pic shows a man with straight hair and paper white skin tone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: I've strayed...but you are a pro-homosexual marriage, pro abortion Christian who believes there are other ways to heaven other than from the One who said "no man can go to the Father except through me". I'll take my chances and play it safe in these matters.

Based on your previous posts, it's pretty clear you know nothing of Jesus, or his teachings. He tells us in order to be saved, we must let him into our hearts. You can't do this in a pro forma way, but by actually being Christ-like. In other words, you're not actually a Christian. You worship the anti-Christ. On Judgement Day, it's clear you're destined for Hell.