Sibling Estrangement

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Younger female sibling went no contact about four years ago. Have never gotten a straight answer as to why. Relationship was fine up to that point with shared holidays and frequent contact. This happen to anyone else? Ever get an answer to why or reconnect? Seems like time is not a friend in these sorts of situations.

Unfortunately, it's very trendy right now. There are places where it's cheered on social media and there are therapists who encourage it.

Hogwash from rwnjs who hate therapy and therapists because their idea of what family looks like is sick with dependent kids who never are allowed to leave them or fly.

I am the furthest thing from a right wing nut job, so just cool your tits.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I went zero contact with one sibling. Best choice ever. Year three.

Leave it be.

Did you ever discuss the behavior that caused you to go zero contact? Did you act like all was fine, then boom, cut them off? If so, that is extremely immature and borders on instability. However, if you let the sibling know the behavior wasn't acceptable and they continued to do it, then fine, cut them off.

This rarely happens. The other party is just so self involved they don't notice the other person ISN'T acting all fine.

There a plenty of people who are actually envious/jealous of their friends, siblings and/or even children. It's not appropriate, so when it becomes overwhelming for them, they rather cut off contact than deal with it. It can be anything. Better job, getting married, having kids, having successful kids, getting promoted, having expensive holidays... etc. It may be a combination of things and that one thing set it off.

Not really. You sound like one of the self absorbed people who don't consider others.

You sound like a narcissist in denial.

Wouldn't the narcissist be the one who thinks everyone is obsessed with them and their life? Do you even know what that word means?

You're the one who denies that people may be jealous of others. It's been part of human nature forever. The fact that you're in such denial that jealousy exists is a huge red flag.

Who's saying jealousy doesn't exist? Stop making things up. We're just saying that's not usually the reason people go NC. It's your projection that everyone is jealous of you, not reality.

In all seriousness, how do you know that? What makes you an expert in estrangements?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. No other siblings and parents have passed on. Have shown last contact to therapist and have dealt with it in therapy. Mentioned younger because birth order seems to matter in terms of how people deal with things. Without going into too much detail, break in contact coincided with a happy event in my life. Therapist suspected that jealously was involved.

Yeah, no. No real therapist is going to blame this on your sibling being jealous of you. This post is very telling.

+1

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I went zero contact with one sibling. Best choice ever. Year three.

Leave it be.

Did you ever discuss the behavior that caused you to go zero contact? Did you act like all was fine, then boom, cut them off? If so, that is extremely immature and borders on instability. However, if you let the sibling know the behavior wasn't acceptable and they continued to do it, then fine, cut them off.

This rarely happens. The other party is just so self involved they don't notice the other person ISN'T acting all fine.

There a plenty of people who are actually envious/jealous of their friends, siblings and/or even children. It's not appropriate, so when it becomes overwhelming for them, they rather cut off contact than deal with it. It can be anything. Better job, getting married, having kids, having successful kids, getting promoted, having expensive holidays... etc. It may be a combination of things and that one thing set it off.

Not really. You sound like one of the self absorbed people who don't consider others.

You sound like a narcissist in denial.

Wouldn't the narcissist be the one who thinks everyone is obsessed with them and their life? Do you even know what that word means?

You're the one who denies that people may be jealous of others. It's been part of human nature forever. The fact that you're in such denial that jealousy exists is a huge red flag.

Who's saying jealousy doesn't exist? Stop making things up. We're just saying that's not usually the reason people go NC. It's your projection that everyone is jealous of you, not reality.

In all seriousness, how do you know that? What makes you an expert in estrangements?

Not an expert, but do know how to use google. It's been quite documented, especially more recently, and jealousy is never one of the top/common reasons.

[Anonymous]

This happened to me. My sister and I went on a trip together and had (or at least I thought we had) a great time. She moved out of state and I got engaged. She was in my wedding a few months later and then just ghosted me. At one point when I tried reaching out again she had disconnected her cell phone. She cut off my, my sister and my parents. Like we had a great time July 4th and I was cut off by Christmas.

It was shocking, but over time I realized it really wasn’t. The truth is she got a raw deal with my family. My dad became an alcoholic when I was 16 and she was 11. She had a lot more time in the house with his nonsense (and my enablement). Even when he wasn’t an alcoholic, my dad valued his kids for how we made him look good. Because he is ridiculous, she was never as valued as I (or my other sister) was. I’m sure this was very hard for her.

She also actually inherited some of the worst traits from my dad. She has difficulty seeing other people’s perspectives. She can make up some crazy lies. She is the person who always had some insane roommate situation and it was always their fault (even though she was the common denominator).

This had been like 20 years. She got back in touch with my parents after about 5 years. They helped her buy her house and she needed their help with a fairly significant surgery. At some point (I don’t even know when at this point), I ended up with her new number. My other sister and I now have a very limited texting relationship with her. She did invite us to her wedding years ago and we went. I text her happy birthday. We text things like “dad is in the hospital.” She showed up for my mom’s funeral and my dad’s second marriage, but barely spoke to us. I assume the next time I see her will be my dad’s funeral.

She seems happy with her new husband. And it seems like she became very close with his family. I’m happy for her, because I know our family wasn’t a happy place for her (me either, but I handle it differently). I want nothing but the best for her even if that isn’t us being close. She recently updated us about a significant financial issue and I sent a large gift card. I did not get any response from her.

I always think the “they are jealous” line is a cop out. The truth is there are things about my life she might be jealous of, but I now have a kid with profound disabilities and the other kid had cancer — I’ve had some major things go wrong. I do think that my dad’s very messed up stuff of how he valued his kids contributed to all of this. But I don’t think I ever devalued her. I just think that it was a dynamic that involved many players, and our relationship got blown up along with a lot of other things.

I want good things for her. I wish we could laugh and hang out like we used to. I wish we could bond over the ridiculous terribleness of our dad (I certainly do with my mother sister). But that apparently isn’t good for her or what she wants.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went zero contact with one sibling. Best choice ever. Year three.

Leave it be.

Did you ever discuss the behavior that caused you to go zero contact? Did you act like all was fine, then boom, cut them off? If so, that is extremely immature and borders on instability. However, if you let the sibling know the behavior wasn't acceptable and they continued to do it, then fine, cut them off.

This rarely happens. The other party is just so self involved they don't notice the other person ISN'T acting all fine.

There a plenty of people who are actually envious/jealous of their friends, siblings and/or even children. It's not appropriate, so when it becomes overwhelming for them, they rather cut off contact than deal with it. It can be anything. Better job, getting married, having kids, having successful kids, getting promoted, having expensive holidays... etc. It may be a combination of things and that one thing set it off.

Not really. You sound like one of the self absorbed people who don't consider others.

You sound like a narcissist in denial.

Wouldn't the narcissist be the one who thinks everyone is obsessed with them and their life? Do you even know what that word means?

You're the one who denies that people may be jealous of others. It's been part of human nature forever. The fact that you're in such denial that jealousy exists is a huge red flag.

Who's saying jealousy doesn't exist? Stop making things up. We're just saying that's not usually the reason people go NC. It's your projection that everyone is jealous of you, not reality.

In all seriousness, how do you know that? What makes you an expert in estrangements?

Not an expert, but do know how to use google. It's been quite documented, especially more recently, and jealousy is never one of the top/common reasons.

Google sibling rivalry and see if any research comes up. If you are doing a study of people who have gone no contact with a sibling on the reasons why, I would not expect that they would give jealousy as a top reason. It's like self-reporting on nutrition. You are likely to say that your eating habits are much more healthy than they actually are while minimizing the bad. A sibling is going to describe jealousy as anything else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think sometimes siblings do and say things that they don't realize are hurtful/not acceptable/think are fine after years of the same behavior being tolerated. Then there is a moment were the person asserts themselves and cuts off contact.

The reality, a mature person would talk to the sibling, discuss, since in many cases the behavior was never intentional to harm, and frankly the person wasn't aware it was a problem. Might not even be aware that something they do is a problem for someone else.

Again, mature people talk these things out. Unfortunately, the person who is cutting ties WANTS no contact. They don't want to talk. Given that, there is nothing to do about it.

Mature people also go no contact. They don’t have to talk it out because you think that’s being mature.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think sometimes siblings do and say things that they don't realize are hurtful/not acceptable/think are fine after years of the same behavior being tolerated. Then there is a moment were the person asserts themselves and cuts off contact.

The reality, a mature person would talk to the sibling, discuss, since in many cases the behavior was never intentional to harm, and frankly the person wasn't aware it was a problem. Might not even be aware that something they do is a problem for someone else.

Again, mature people talk these things out. Unfortunately, the person who is cutting ties WANTS no contact. They don't want to talk. Given that, there is nothing to do about it.

I meant to add that that person who cuts off a sibling without a conversation is immature or emotionally unstable.

I cut off siblings without conversation. Best thing i ever did -- and I mean that, even though it is a cliche. There was no "conversation" to be had in that family. I have recently reconnected, and wow, they are ll still as nuts as they were then. I honestly cannot believe they are still saddle with the same debilitating family dynamics that they were years ago. Meanwhile I have changed. It was really hard but what a difference.

Not immature or emotionally unstable at all. I did it because to continue would have been impossible. When you get to that point, you know. I always tell posters on DCUM who complain about the most trivial things are suggest or are given advice to cut people off NOT TO because it's a big deal, not to be taken lightly. Again, best decision I ever made, and reconnecting with them only reaffirmed that my decision was a sound one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I suspect people who go no contact with relatives who have NO clue why it is happening were encouraged to do so by some well-meaning friend or therapist who is putting their own issues into their advice and justifying and even selling it as “protecting your own mental health”
It’s a toxic practice that tends to spread from one mal-adjusted person to another because sometimes misery loves company.

This is all over DCUM. It's bizarre how many people think cutting people off -- friends or family -- is a good solution to difficulty. Estrangement is for really, really bad things.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I suspect people who go no contact with relatives who have NO clue why it is happening were encouraged to do so by some well-meaning friend or therapist who is putting their own issues into their advice and justifying and even selling it as “protecting your own mental health”
It’s a toxic practice that tends to spread from one mal-adjusted person to another because sometimes misery loves company.

This is all over DCUM. It's bizarre how many people think cutting people off -- friends or family -- is a good solution to difficulty. Estrangement is for really, really bad things.

Estrangement is the "popular" thing to deploy nowadays.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I suspect people who go no contact with relatives who have NO clue why it is happening were encouraged to do so by some well-meaning friend or therapist who is putting their own issues into their advice and justifying and even selling it as “protecting your own mental health”
It’s a toxic practice that tends to spread from one mal-adjusted person to another because sometimes misery loves company.

This is all over DCUM. It's bizarre how many people think cutting people off -- friends or family -- is a good solution to difficulty. Estrangement is for really, really bad things.

Estrangement is the "popular" thing to deploy nowadays.

It’s popular because theres been a shift in how people deal with things like sexual abuse— past generations swept it under the rug, this generation cuts off. And obviously the cut off parents say they have “no idea” why— you think they’re telling the pickleball team their kid was molested and they (the parents) didn’t do anything?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went zero contact with one sibling. Best choice ever. Year three.

Leave it be.

Did you ever discuss the behavior that caused you to go zero contact? Did you act like all was fine, then boom, cut them off? If so, that is extremely immature and borders on instability. However, if you let the sibling know the behavior wasn't acceptable and they continued to do it, then fine, cut them off.

This rarely happens. The other party is just so self involved they don't notice the other person ISN'T acting all fine.

There a plenty of people who are actually envious/jealous of their friends, siblings and/or even children. It's not appropriate, so when it becomes overwhelming for them, they rather cut off contact than deal with it. It can be anything. Better job, getting married, having kids, having successful kids, getting promoted, having expensive holidays... etc. It may be a combination of things and that one thing set it off.

Not really. You sound like one of the self absorbed people who don't consider others.

You sound like a narcissist in denial.

Wouldn't the narcissist be the one who thinks everyone is obsessed with them and their life? Do you even know what that word means?

You're the one who denies that people may be jealous of others. It's been part of human nature forever. The fact that you're in such denial that jealousy exists is a huge red flag.

Who's saying jealousy doesn't exist? Stop making things up. We're just saying that's not usually the reason people go NC. It's your projection that everyone is jealous of you, not reality.

In all seriousness, how do you know that? What makes you an expert in estrangements?

Not an expert, but do know how to use google. It's been quite documented, especially more recently, and jealousy is never one of the top/common reasons.

lol, ok then. Even if your Google research is correct, we all have no idea whether it was a reason in this specfic case, no matter how dismissive you are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hope you hear. I think that’s a fair statement, but nothing was ever said and we had no argument so how would I have known if there was an issue? To this day, I still don’t know why she no longer speaks to me so how could I have assumed anything wrong before. Sometimes I feel it’s a power play the silence.

Nah. What was the non-holiday related interaction like? I hate when people feign cluelessness.

How many people are you estranged from anyway? And let me guess, they're all clueless, right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. No other siblings and parents have passed on. Have shown last contact to therapist and have dealt with it in therapy. Mentioned younger because birth order seems to matter in terms of how people deal with things. Without going into too much detail, break in contact coincided with a happy event in my life. Therapist suspected that jealously was involved.

If there is a disparity in "success" in life, it can be very difficult for the one in the lesser position. For example, if you went to college and have a degree, prestigious career and make $350,000, while younger sibling works as an office admin, it can be difficult for them to always be faced with your success.

If you live in an upscale, large house with a pool, and big backyard in a nice neighborhood, while they are in an old, falling apart tiny house, worried about neighborhood crime, or struggling to pay rent on a plain old apartment - it can just be hard to have all that luxury displayed in front of you. Same with your fancy $80,000 SUV paid for in cash, while they have a run down 2001 buy-here-pay-here Corolla.

Maybe they are divorced or single with no good hopes on the horizon for a good partner and you married Mr. Perfect and you are both sooo in love.

Probably the hardest, they are struggling with infertility, or can't afford to treat it, or are 39 and running out of time, while the older sibling popped out 3 kids quite easily. Maybe they have 1 nerdy, awkward child who is challenged in school, while your kids are over-achievers, walk away with all the school awards and qualify for the state and national orchestra.

Maybe you are beautiful, pretty skin, great figure and they look like a plain jane frump, always the "ugly" step-sister type compared to you, the Cinderella or Barbie older sister.

Maybe they are coping with a mental health issue, depression or OCD or an eating disorder and it's a struggle to make it to Friday. While you clearly have your act together, work full time, run the PTA, train for marathons at 5am, volunteer regularly at the food pantry and have a group of gal pals from college 20 years ago that you still meet regularly for fun outings, shared family vacations - and - all the good times are posted on FaceBook.

Often the older sibling takes it for granted that they are faster, more successful, did everything first and better, simply because they are 4 years older. The younger sibling isn't even on their radar and is like a pesky gnat hanging around and copying them. But to the younger sibling, they've always seen you succeed, and maybe they are in a silent competition to for once do something better than you, and watch everything you do and do well. As you level out after age 25, you are just living your busy best life, expecting them to celebrate all your happy occasions, but maybe one of these areas is just to much for them to cope with.

They know they would look foolish and petty for revealing the real reason they have pulled back, so they just go quiet. Maybe it's easier for them to live their life without whatever reminder it is that you did something better than them, and that thing probably isn't on their personal horizon.

It could be something about your life that you didn't even realize was something that was hard for them to embrace. Instead of hunting for clues to find proof that nothing was your fault, just step back from being all about you, and occasionally send them a card or text offering them well wishes on something you heard they did recently, or on their birthday or favorite holiday, and just say you are thinking about them.

Infertility is hard. It wasn't strictly no contact, but my dear cousin pulled back in a big way from family and many friends for a while when they were struggling with this. Skipped holiday and any other family get-togethers, no social media, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I suspect people who go no contact with relatives who have NO clue why it is happening were encouraged to do so by some well-meaning friend or therapist who is putting their own issues into their advice and justifying and even selling it as “protecting your own mental health”
It’s a toxic practice that tends to spread from one mal-adjusted person to another because sometimes misery loves company.

This is all over DCUM. It's bizarre how many people think cutting people off -- friends or family -- is a good solution to difficulty. Estrangement is for really, really bad things.

Estrangement is the "popular" thing to deploy nowadays.

Agree, it’s being misused by misguided immature people looking for an easy way out.

In those cases it’s stonewalling instead of conflict resolution.

It’s like my 12 yo this AM not giving her sister what she had asked for and then throwing it in her face. 12 yo got in trouble, tried to stonewall and deflect and blame it on her father, who ordered her to hand it over.

Round and round they go: no one is mature enough to be accountable for their own actions.