Sibling Estrangement

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've gone no contact with my sister. With my entire family actually, but that's a bigger story, but cut my sister off first. Why? Because she is a covert narcissist who does not mean me well. She had done so many underhanded things that would seem unbelievable unless you've experienced narcissistic abuse. And when confronted she would say some version of can't you see how hard my life is, why are you being mean to me. Takes zero accountability. Needs to assert control the whole family, and uses exclusion and scapegoating to gain control. I'm the family empath who finally said enough, no more. I'm the only one in my family who is brave enough to push back and go no contact. I don't expect anyone else in my family to do the same; they're too weak and need the approval of the group to survive. I chose to save myself.

Can you share more of your experience with how you went about this? My sister is a narcissist who won't take any responsibility for her life and I'm tired of her treating me poorly. But how do you get a narcissist to respect no-contact boundaries? Did she try to engage with you? I'm worried mine will want an explanation when what I really want is her to leave me alone.

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No one can force contact. You may have to keep some distance from the rest of the family. You don't have to answer your phone or the door.

To the "family is always right" gang posting here, no one owes anyone else an explanation for their actions. Abusive, dysfunctional people LOVE the drama that goes along with discussions to attempt to address the problem. Mature adults know when to cut the chord.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Keep the door open. Send a greeting for her birthday, at the holidays, and any update on major life events even if she might have heard from elsewhere (deaths, engagements, graduations, college plans, that type of thing) Always invite (unless she's a danger to anyone), always invite to events where otherwise the entire family is invited. Keep any communication formal. Just state the details. And with greetings, "Happy Holidays" and just sign your name. Almost like you would communicate with a colleague at work or a neighbor you don't know. Leave the door open.

Why? This requires lots of effort from the person who didn't start anything. I'd do nothing. If and when the sibling is ready, let them reach out. And if not, then oh well. I'm the PP whose friend disappeared after my wedding... and also jealousy made the most sense considering everything. At the end of the day we don't know what is going on with another person, even though we thought they're a dear friend or a beloved sibling. Stalking is illegal and it's better not to continue reaching out if it's unwanted, relationships have to be mutual.

What a stretch, this is minimal effort. Basically no pressure, just letting her know you harbor no ill-will.

It's not a minimal effort and obviously there's ill-will after you're the only one who remembers. I guess you have not been in this position. I have. The only one calling, sending cards for holidays/birthdays, remembering milestones. And get nothing in return, no cards, no calls, no thank you for gifts. After a while it becomes uncomfortable. You start feeling like a fool. Then resentful for spending all this time and money and thinking of them at all.

Me me me. No wonder they don't want to have anything to do with you.

It's clear why people would avoid you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Younger female sibling went no contact about four years ago. Have never gotten a straight answer as to why. Relationship was fine up to that point with shared holidays and frequent contact. This happen to anyone else? Ever get an answer to why or reconnect? Seems like time is not a friend in these sorts of situations.

Weird. She never said, “I need a break from you all because of x y z?” She just ghosted off and doesn’t answer questions or explain herself? And you have no guesses why this is?

But it’s a fun power & control move to never say anything or why. Hee hee heee..

It's not fun and it's not about power. That you are so concerned about power shows you have no clue what a healthy relationship is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Keep the door open. Send a greeting for her birthday, at the holidays, and any update on major life events even if she might have heard from elsewhere (deaths, engagements, graduations, college plans, that type of thing) Always invite (unless she's a danger to anyone), always invite to events where otherwise the entire family is invited. Keep any communication formal. Just state the details. And with greetings, "Happy Holidays" and just sign your name. Almost like you would communicate with a colleague at work or a neighbor you don't know. Leave the door open.

Why? This requires lots of effort from the person who didn't start anything. I'd do nothing. If and when the sibling is ready, let them reach out. And if not, then oh well. I'm the PP whose friend disappeared after my wedding... and also jealousy made the most sense considering everything. At the end of the day we don't know what is going on with another person, even though we thought they're a dear friend or a beloved sibling. Stalking is illegal and it's better not to continue reaching out if it's unwanted, relationships have to be mutual.

What a stretch, this is minimal effort. Basically no pressure, just letting her know you harbor no ill-will.

It's not a minimal effort and obviously there's ill-will after you're the only one who remembers. I guess you have not been in this position. I have. The only one calling, sending cards for holidays/birthdays, remembering milestones. And get nothing in return, no cards, no calls, no thank you for gifts. After a while it becomes uncomfortable. You start feeling like a fool. Then resentful for spending all this time and money and thinking of them at all.

Me me me. No wonder they don't want to have anything to do with you.

Really? That's what you got out of my post? That me calling, sending cards and gifts without reciprocation was about me, me me? Don't worry, I stopped

That poster is a freak and I know this type too well. They can be abusive as hell but are used to power games and inequalities in relationships. Narcs and abusers hate it when their playthings walk away and refuse to be a part of the sick game.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Younger female sibling went no contact about four years ago. Have never gotten a straight answer as to why. Relationship was fine up to that point with shared holidays and frequent contact. This happen to anyone else? Ever get an answer to why or reconnect? Seems like time is not a friend in these sorts of situations.

Unfortunately, it's very trendy right now. There are places where it's cheered on social media and there are therapists who encourage it.

Hogwash from rwnjs who hate therapy and therapists because their idea of what family looks like is sick with dependent kids who never are allowed to leave them or fly.

[Anonymous]

Wow one angry pro-estrangement posters is really in a rapid fire posting tear!! Go DCUM!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. No other siblings and parents have passed on. Have shown last contact to therapist and have dealt with it in therapy. Mentioned younger because birth order seems to matter in terms of how people deal with things. Without going into too much detail, break in contact coincided with a happy event in my life. Therapist suspected that jealously was involved.

If there is a disparity in "success" in life, it can be very difficult for the one in the lesser position. For example, if you went to college and have a degree, prestigious career and make $350,000, while younger sibling works as an office admin, it can be difficult for them to always be faced with your success.

If you live in an upscale, large house with a pool, and big backyard in a nice neighborhood, while they are in an old, falling apart tiny house, worried about neighborhood crime, or struggling to pay rent on a plain old apartment - it can just be hard to have all that luxury displayed in front of you. Same with your fancy $80,000 SUV paid for in cash, while they have a run down 2001 buy-here-pay-here Corolla.

Maybe they are divorced or single with no good hopes on the horizon for a good partner and you married Mr. Perfect and you are both sooo in love.

Probably the hardest, they are struggling with infertility, or can't afford to treat it, or are 39 and running out of time, while the older sibling popped out 3 kids quite easily. Maybe they have 1 nerdy, awkward child who is challenged in school, while your kids are over-achievers, walk away with all the school awards and qualify for the state and national orchestra.

Maybe you are beautiful, pretty skin, great figure and they look like a plain jane frump, always the "ugly" step-sister type compared to you, the Cinderella or Barbie older sister.

Maybe they are coping with a mental health issue, depression or OCD or an eating disorder and it's a struggle to make it to Friday. While you clearly have your act together, work full time, run the PTA, train for marathons at 5am, volunteer regularly at the food pantry and have a group of gal pals from college 20 years ago that you still meet regularly for fun outings, shared family vacations - and - all the good times are posted on FaceBook.

Often the older sibling takes it for granted that they are faster, more successful, did everything first and better, simply because they are 4 years older. The younger sibling isn't even on their radar and is like a pesky gnat hanging around and copying them. But to the younger sibling, they've always seen you succeed, and maybe they are in a silent competition to for once do something better than you, and watch everything you do and do well. As you level out after age 25, you are just living your busy best life, expecting them to celebrate all your happy occasions, but maybe one of these areas is just to much for them to cope with.

They know they would look foolish and petty for revealing the real reason they have pulled back, so they just go quiet. Maybe it's easier for them to live their life without whatever reminder it is that you did something better than them, and that thing probably isn't on their personal horizon.

It could be something about your life that you didn't even realize was something that was hard for them to embrace. Instead of hunting for clues to find proof that nothing was your fault, just step back from being all about you, and occasionally send them a card or text offering them well wishes on something you heard they did recently, or on their birthday or favorite holiday, and just say you are thinking about them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. No other siblings and parents have passed on. Have shown last contact to therapist and have dealt with it in therapy. Mentioned younger because birth order seems to matter in terms of how people deal with things. Without going into too much detail, break in contact coincided with a happy event in my life. Therapist suspected that jealously was involved.

Yeah, no. No real therapist is going to blame this on your sibling being jealous of you. This post is very telling.

Well, the therapist saw the contact and you didn't, so I'm not sure you (or any of us) are really in any place to judge.

That some of you continue to deny jealousy as a plausible explanation for estrangements is hilarious to me. Again I'm in no place to judge the reason for this particular estrangement but there's a reason it ended up in the 10 commandments. Humans are jealous creatures.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. No other siblings and parents have passed on. Have shown last contact to therapist and have dealt with it in therapy. Mentioned younger because birth order seems to matter in terms of how people deal with things. Without going into too much detail, break in contact coincided with a happy event in my life. Therapist suspected that jealously was involved.

Yeah, no. No real therapist is going to blame this on your sibling being jealous of you. This post is very telling.

Well, the therapist saw the contact and you didn't, so I'm not sure you (or any of us) are really in any place to judge.

That some of you continue to deny jealousy as a plausible explanation for estrangements is hilarious to me. Again I'm in no place to judge the reason for this particular estrangement but there's a reason it ended up in the 10 commandments. Humans are jealous creatures.

I also noticed that. Jealousy/envy has been around as long as the mankind. Fairytales are written about it. Mom/daughter or step-daughter, dad/son, sibling rivalry. I also found the long post about "poor sibling" incredulous. I don't know any siblings who have everything exactly the same in life and going with that is normal, not something one has to hide because another doesn't have. If you cannot tell your family (parents/siblings) that you got a promotion, your kid won an award or you bought a new car without them getting jealous by default, then who can you tell???

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In all the cases of estrangement I’ve encountered there’s never been one that happened for no reason. There’s usually a reason, one that the party who is cut off dismisses or ignores as not important enough.

“Coinciding with a happy event in my life” makes me wonder how the younger sibling was treated in this happy event— my younger SIL barely exchanged three words with my older SIL in the year after her wedding because older SIL was *so awful*. Of course older SIL would say younger was “jealous” she wasn’t married yet…

+100

Both my BFF and I were cut out by Trumper alcoholic siblings. I suppose that’s “the reason” and not their avoidance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. No other siblings and parents have passed on. Have shown last contact to therapist and have dealt with it in therapy. Mentioned younger because birth order seems to matter in terms of how people deal with things. Without going into too much detail, break in contact coincided with a happy event in my life. Therapist suspected that jealously was involved.

If there is a disparity in "success" in life, it can be very difficult for the one in the lesser position. For example, if you went to college and have a degree, prestigious career and make $350,000, while younger sibling works as an office admin, it can be difficult for them to always be faced with your success.

If you live in an upscale, large house with a pool, and big backyard in a nice neighborhood, while they are in an old, falling apart tiny house, worried about neighborhood crime, or struggling to pay rent on a plain old apartment - it can just be hard to have all that luxury displayed in front of you. Same with your fancy $80,000 SUV paid for in cash, while they have a run down 2001 buy-here-pay-here Corolla.

Maybe they are divorced or single with no good hopes on the horizon for a good partner and you married Mr. Perfect and you are both sooo in love.

Probably the hardest, they are struggling with infertility, or can't afford to treat it, or are 39 and running out of time, while the older sibling popped out 3 kids quite easily. Maybe they have 1 nerdy, awkward child who is challenged in school, while your kids are over-achievers, walk away with all the school awards and qualify for the state and national orchestra.

Maybe you are beautiful, pretty skin, great figure and they look like a plain jane frump, always the "ugly" step-sister type compared to you, the Cinderella or Barbie older sister.

Maybe they are coping with a mental health issue, depression or OCD or an eating disorder and it's a struggle to make it to Friday. While you clearly have your act together, work full time, run the PTA, train for marathons at 5am, volunteer regularly at the food pantry and have a group of gal pals from college 20 years ago that you still meet regularly for fun outings, shared family vacations - and - all the good times are posted on FaceBook.

Often the older sibling takes it for granted that they are faster, more successful, did everything first and better, simply because they are 4 years older. The younger sibling isn't even on their radar and is like a pesky gnat hanging around and copying them. But to the younger sibling, they've always seen you succeed, and maybe they are in a silent competition to for once do something better than you, and watch everything you do and do well. As you level out after age 25, you are just living your busy best life, expecting them to celebrate all your happy occasions, but maybe one of these areas is just to much for them to cope with.

They know they would look foolish and petty for revealing the real reason they have pulled back, so they just go quiet. Maybe it's easier for them to live their life without whatever reminder it is that you did something better than them, and that thing probably isn't on their personal horizon.

It could be something about your life that you didn't even realize was something that was hard for them to embrace. Instead of hunting for clues to find proof that nothing was your fault, just step back from being all about you, and occasionally send them a card or text offering them well wishes on something you heard they did recently, or on their birthday or favorite holiday, and just say you are thinking about them.

Yup. People with victim mentalities often alienate themselves when people call their shit out. That’s the only way they can stay a perpetual victim.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In all the cases of estrangement I’ve encountered there’s never been one that happened for no reason. There’s usually a reason, one that the party who is cut off dismisses or ignores as not important enough.

“Coinciding with a happy event in my life” makes me wonder how the younger sibling was treated in this happy event— my younger SIL barely exchanged three words with my older SIL in the year after her wedding because older SIL was *so awful*. Of course older SIL would say younger was “jealous” she wasn’t married yet…

+100

Both my BFF and I were cut out by Trumper alcoholic siblings. I suppose that’s “the reason” and not their avoidance.

I've made myself very distant from anyone with substance abuse problems.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wow one angry pro-estrangement posters is really in a rapid fire posting tear!! Go DCUM!!

and what are you doing, nutjob?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow one angry pro-estrangement posters is really in a rapid fire posting tear!! Go DCUM!!

and what are you doing, nutjob?

I didn’t do 8 posts in a row essentially saying the same thing with a degenerate tone and name calling. But I’ll gladly cheer on that demise!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went zero contact with one sibling. Best choice ever. Year three.

Leave it be.

Did you ever discuss the behavior that caused you to go zero contact? Did you act like all was fine, then boom, cut them off? If so, that is extremely immature and borders on instability. However, if you let the sibling know the behavior wasn't acceptable and they continued to do it, then fine, cut them off.

This rarely happens. The other party is just so self involved they don't notice the other person ISN'T acting all fine.

There a plenty of people who are actually envious/jealous of their friends, siblings and/or even children. It's not appropriate, so when it becomes overwhelming for them, they rather cut off contact than deal with it. It can be anything. Better job, getting married, having kids, having successful kids, getting promoted, having expensive holidays... etc. It may be a combination of things and that one thing set it off.

Not really. You sound like one of the self absorbed people who don't consider others.

You sound like a narcissist in denial.

Wouldn't the narcissist be the one who thinks everyone is obsessed with them and their life? Do you even know what that word means?

You're the one who denies that people may be jealous of others. It's been part of human nature forever. The fact that you're in such denial that jealousy exists is a huge red flag.

Who's saying jealousy doesn't exist? Stop making things up. We're just saying that's not usually the reason people go NC. It's your projection that everyone is jealous of you, not reality.