Jealous of Big Law partner spouses?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I prefer having a spouse who is home for dinner every night. Can’t put a price on that or outsource it.

This times a million!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:40 year old EP, DC office of large global firm. Should make about $1.5MM this year and wife hasn’t worked for about 5 years. She takes care of the kids, manages doctors, groceries, housekeeper, and pretty much everything else in our lives. Overall seems to like it, but she would never expect that anyone else would be jealous of that. It’s not like we have enough money to be living a different lifestyle from most in the DMV suburbs.

Only point I wanted to make on this: those who think every biglaw partner is working night and day have no idea what you’re talking about. I bill around 1400 hours per year, have maybe 2000-2100 all in. That’s nothing, basically 40 hours a week. Plenty of colleagues do the same. I almost never work weekends other than maybe an hour of prep and admin Sunday afternoon. Have never missed a vacation, and rarely do more than 3-4 hours of work/calls per trip. I mostly work from home, drive one kid to school every day, cook dinner a lot, have coached multiple teams, and we go camping and hiking as a family all the time. Honestly couldn’t be happier with the balance we’ve got.

Now, I’m never going to be a $5MM-$10MM take home guy. Those folks do tend to work a LOT more, or else they’re either really good at BD or fell ass backwards into a book. But I should be able to run this out in the $1.5-$2.5 range for 20+ years if I wanted to. (I don’t, but nice to know it’s an option.)

You are on the chopping block if you are billing 1400 hours and taking in $1.5M. Bad economics for the firm.

I expect the PP is likely in a niche DC specialty at a very large and profitable firm based elsewhere, and is allowed to fly under the radar some because his specialty is necessary, the firm is very profitable generally with no major financial issues even during downturns, but they are tucked away in an smaller branch office. $1.5 is high for some firms but would be considered low or middling for some of the tippy top global firms.

I have known partners like this and they have a good gig. It's not standard though. You either have to luck into it or make some very strategic choices early on to make it happen. And even then, there's not a guarantee -- if the firm hits rough waters or your speciality undergoes major shake ups, the whole thing might fall apart.

It's a different story at DC-based firms, or any firm where 1.5m would put you in the top 30% of earners at the firm. People will catch on. Also, this PP should be wary of how merger could impact them. Industry consolidation is heating up again post-Covid and if their firm were to merge even with a boutique or midsize firm that impacted his specialty, they may either have to increase their billables considerably or see a major reduction in take home.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I’m jealous of the spouses who married the well-respected partners in humane practice areas who are flush with business and yet are secure in their client relationships. It’s a fine line I never quite figured out in my time in Biglaw, but I know they are out there.

-In-house counsel

This rings true. It is great to hear about several partners who have it all figured out and are working only 50 hours per week. Those people just are not the general rule though, which those partners would probably quickly tell you, especially when including junior partners in the equation.

I work on the business side at a major firm and part of that story may also be enormous resentment from other partners, who will argue that a partner who is not billing a lot, delegating most of the heavy lifting to associates and junior partners, but then claiming origination credit on the client because they brought them in 10 years ago, is dead weight and should be sharing origination credit with the partners actually doing the work, or even transitioning the client.

This is a huge fight at many firms. There is no firm where ALL equity partners are working 50 hours a week (and billing far less since partners have more administrative tasks that take up time). So you have major inequities in hours and that tends to come up when it's time for the Comp Committee to figure out everyone's draw.

This is very true. I’ve been a partner at firms like this, it’s sort of miserable. Just a never ending negative feedback loop. Who’s getting more than you? Who deserves what? That guy doesn’t work hard. Blah blah.

I’m now at a lockstep firm and it is staggering how much better the environment is. It’s as close as you can get to the “everyone working 50 hours” mentality. There’s almost no incentive to horde credit, act as a bottleneck with clients, all the crap that comes with most firm comp structures. You do your work, you go home, you get paid like everyone else.

True, you leave a little money on the table, but not being surrounded by Dbags relentlessly focused on their own comp in every interaction has honestly saved my career.

True, this can work. But then sometimes at lockstep firms you get people who coast and this results in resentment from people who are really driving new businesses or billing a lot.

Look, law firms are very profitable businesses. But most of them are run as true partnerships and have to figure out how to divide up those profits, and this does not lend itself well towards people who want to work less but make more. A lot of what people on this thread are talking about are kind of niche situations where they are able to hide a bit and still pull in high salaries. That happens, but it's not the norm.

If you really want something resembling work-life balance, while still making very good money (though not multi-million annual take-home, admittedly), I recommend looking for a firm that will let you transition from associate to a permanent counsel position where you trade high quality work and experience with major clients for more reasonable billing expectations (these roles do exist), OR go become a partner at a midwest or southern firm with lower profits per partner but a more collegial, less workaholic culture.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:40 year old EP, DC office of large global firm. Should make about $1.5MM this year and wife hasn’t worked for about 5 years. She takes care of the kids, manages doctors, groceries, housekeeper, and pretty much everything else in our lives. Overall seems to like it, but she would never expect that anyone else would be jealous of that. It’s not like we have enough money to be living a different lifestyle from most in the DMV suburbs.

Only point I wanted to make on this: those who think every biglaw partner is working night and day have no idea what you’re talking about. I bill around 1400 hours per year, have maybe 2000-2100 all in. That’s nothing, basically 40 hours a week. Plenty of colleagues do the same. I almost never work weekends other than maybe an hour of prep and admin Sunday afternoon. Have never missed a vacation, and rarely do more than 3-4 hours of work/calls per trip. I mostly work from home, drive one kid to school every day, cook dinner a lot, have coached multiple teams, and we go camping and hiking as a family all the time. Honestly couldn’t be happier with the balance we’ve got.

Now, I’m never going to be a $5MM-$10MM take home guy. Those folks do tend to work a LOT more, or else they’re either really good at BD or fell ass backwards into a book. But I should be able to run this out in the $1.5-$2.5 range for 20+ years if I wanted to. (I don’t, but nice to know it’s an option.)

This. This is more common than some want to admit.

[Anonymous]

Are there cushy big law partnerships out there? Yes. Are they anywhere remotely close to the normal or common experience? Hardly. There is a lady at my husband’s firm who only does Erisa law. She generates no work herself and just does that sub component for matter brought in by others. It’s rarely that time sensitive and she is able to work a somewhat typical day. Is she making 7 figures? No. Is her book portable? No. And she has a very uncommon model. And those asserting otherwise have no clue what they are talking about and I wonder if they are trolls. Gaining law firm partnership is like winning a pie eating contest where the prize is more pie.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:40 year old EP, DC office of large global firm. Should make about $1.5MM this year and wife hasn’t worked for about 5 years. She takes care of the kids, manages doctors, groceries, housekeeper, and pretty much everything else in our lives. Overall seems to like it, but she would never expect that anyone else would be jealous of that. It’s not like we have enough money to be living a different lifestyle from most in the DMV suburbs.

Only point I wanted to make on this: those who think every biglaw partner is working night and day have no idea what you’re talking about. I bill around 1400 hours per year, have maybe 2000-2100 all in. That’s nothing, basically 40 hours a week. Plenty of colleagues do the same. I almost never work weekends other than maybe an hour of prep and admin Sunday afternoon. Have never missed a vacation, and rarely do more than 3-4 hours of work/calls per trip. I mostly work from home, drive one kid to school every day, cook dinner a lot, have coached multiple teams, and we go camping and hiking as a family all the time. Honestly couldn’t be happier with the balance we’ve got.

Now, I’m never going to be a $5MM-$10MM take home guy. Those folks do tend to work a LOT more, or else they’re either really good at BD or fell ass backwards into a book. But I should be able to run this out in the $1.5-$2.5 range for 20+ years if I wanted to. (I don’t, but nice to know it’s an option.)

You are on the chopping block if you are billing 1400 hours and taking in $1.5M. Bad economics for the firm.

Whether or not this is true it's a really great strategy to just milk it for you can before you're pushed out and then find another situation where you can earn less but still be comfortable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:40 year old EP, DC office of large global firm. Should make about $1.5MM this year and wife hasn’t worked for about 5 years. She takes care of the kids, manages doctors, groceries, housekeeper, and pretty much everything else in our lives. Overall seems to like it, but she would never expect that anyone else would be jealous of that. It’s not like we have enough money to be living a different lifestyle from most in the DMV suburbs.

Only point I wanted to make on this: those who think every biglaw partner is working night and day have no idea what you’re talking about. I bill around 1400 hours per year, have maybe 2000-2100 all in. That’s nothing, basically 40 hours a week. Plenty of colleagues do the same. I almost never work weekends other than maybe an hour of prep and admin Sunday afternoon. Have never missed a vacation, and rarely do more than 3-4 hours of work/calls per trip. I mostly work from home, drive one kid to school every day, cook dinner a lot, have coached multiple teams, and we go camping and hiking as a family all the time. Honestly couldn’t be happier with the balance we’ve got.

Now, I’m never going to be a $5MM-$10MM take home guy. Those folks do tend to work a LOT more, or else they’re either really good at BD or fell ass backwards into a book. But I should be able to run this out in the $1.5-$2.5 range for 20+ years if I wanted to. (I don’t, but nice to know it’s an option.)

This. This is more common than some want to admit.

Name the practice areas.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:How much money does a typical Biglaw partner in a top 10 or 20 law firm in DC bring home in a month? I keep asking and nobody tells me. Am I right that it’s like $200,000 a month?

It doesn't work that way. Assuming you are just looking at equity partners (many firms have non-equity partners who are paid more like associates or counsel), it varies dramatically by firm. In the top 20 AmLaw firms, profits per equity partner can range from 1.1m to 7.1m. Per partner draw will loosely track this, but firms have a variety of ways for determining partner compensation, and at a given firm the actually annual draw could be well above or below that depending on whether the partner is a major rainmaker, very senior or junior, etc. Most firms have a compensation committee that makes these determinations and it's one of the most political processes at a law firm.

And then, of course, law firm profits can vary at these firms as well, and that will impact annual draw. Add to that that many firms issue draws on a quarterly basis, instead of monthly. Also, new partners must purchase their equity in the firm and that will impact your draw as well. So the "typical" monthly income of a BigLaw partner in DC can vary quite a bit. If you asked me what I think the annual income of a certain kind of partner at a specific firm was, I could probably ballpark it for you. But I can't tell you what the typical salary is for partners across a pretty wide range of firms without knowing anything about that partner or the firm they are with. The range would be huge.

I’m at the DC office of NY biglaw. I make about $4m (and should make in the $4m-$5m range for the next 3-5 years). I get a monthly draw of about $40k, and quarterly distributions to cover estimated taxes. Then profit distribs when the firm has the cash to pay them. So it’s not like a fixed salary per month (except for the monthly draw). The biggest months are Nov and Dec. In total I clear about 50% of the gross (so $2m), after retirement plan contributions. So averaged out that’s like $167,000 per month net.

And I work a lot. 60 hours per week, every week, between billables, client development, admin, travel. When I’m not working I’m spending time with kids and wife. I make almost all BTS, weekend sports, most weekday sports, but I have NO PERSONAL HOBBIES or free time. But that’s the choice I made.

I’m 50 and a set to retire at 54 with about $15m. College is paid for (3 kids, oldest is 16). Mortgage on primary home. One investment property.

Does your spouse work? What's the divorce rate among your peers?

Spouse works FT. She's a rockstar and handles 90% of the logistics. I plan vacations, go grocery shopping on weekends, take oeldest child to college visits, and do the things I mentioned above. Maybe one weekday night out per 3 weeks (I work once the kids are down for the night). It is hard, but my wife and I are driven and don't believe in idle time. We also grew up LMC and don't see the point in/don't have the luxury to relax. We'll do that eventually. Our kids see the value and benefits of hard work, and accept that I have to squeeze in calls so that I can make their games, drop them off, etc. Eldest was talking to a friend once when I was on a call in the car, and said something like "yes, he has to take calls, but he's always around. Other parents can only take vacation at certain times or can't drop off at practice. My dad can be more flexible like that."

DK about divorce rate at my firm, and don't care. Life is a canvas, so I don't live by other people's rules (but I am not a jerk either). When partners at my firm retire, we somethimes have a dinner for them and their families come. 100% of the retired partners apologize for missing time with their families. No thanks.

Your kid has no way of knowing that and it’s very obvious that if he actually said that - which is probably fictional - he’s simply parroting what you’ve told him to make you both feel better.

It happened. Live with it.

I believe it. It's crazy what other kids know about their friends' parents lives. I have heard DD talk about friends' parents affairs, weird post-divorce co-parenting dynamics, parents yelling all the time, how much time their parents spend on Facebook, etc. And yes, parents who work so much they don't see their kids much. Of course, PP's kid doesn't know what she doesn't know. She's comparing her home life to even busier home lives. Maybe he or she would be happier with one parent staying home, or two parents with 40 hour/week jobs, or whatever.

They were comparing me - more often present for vacations/games/drop offs bc WFH but some of that time im on calls - with a friend’s dad who is less present due to inflexible work but is 100% available when present. They weren’t judging, just comparing. Which is how we raise our kids - different things aren’t necessarily better or worse in an absolute sense, so figure out yourself and what works for you. The fact that these kids see so many options is setting them up for success because they will have choices. When I grew up, husbands worked at an office or a factory or a coal mine and came home exhausted and never helped out and took one vacation a year, and wives stayed home and did all the family logistics, etc. Out kids are seeing different options. Not better or worse.

[Anonymous]

DH has worked at 3 different large firms, partner at the latter 2, and knowns almost no one that meets the description of these unicorn partners all these wives are describing. No one is happy - its all just golden handcuffs. We are socking money away like crazy so that DH can leave ASAP. The ones who aren't doing the same are super materialistic and just want MORE MORE MORE. They are the ones planning to buy their second and third homes and putting in a $200k backyard. And no they are definitely not coaching sports.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DH has worked at 3 different large firms, partner at the latter 2, and knowns almost no one that meets the description of these unicorn partners all these wives are describing. No one is happy - its all just golden handcuffs. We are socking money away like crazy so that DH can leave ASAP. The ones who aren't doing the same are super materialistic and just want MORE MORE MORE. They are the ones planning to buy their second and third homes and putting in a $200k backyard. And no they are definitely not coaching sports.

My husband is apparently a “unicorn”, but he spent years and years at the gov, high up in DOJ where he was, and this may throw you - insanely wildly busy and traveled 90% of the time. His life was crazy and he did nonstop trials. To us, partnership feels laid back. And he has a ton of business he brought in from his gov contacts. And travels not at all, really. So what if he logs back in after dinner? So does literally almost everyone I know doing anything at all. Look, if you are a service partner for other partners, your life will suck. So don’t do that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DH has worked at 3 different large firms, partner at the latter 2, and knowns almost no one that meets the description of these unicorn partners all these wives are describing. No one is happy - its all just golden handcuffs. We are socking money away like crazy so that DH can leave ASAP. The ones who aren't doing the same are super materialistic and just want MORE MORE MORE. They are the ones planning to buy their second and third homes and putting in a $200k backyard. And no they are definitely not coaching sports.

My husband is apparently a “unicorn”, but he spent years and years at the gov, high up in DOJ where he was, and this may throw you - insanely wildly busy and traveled 90% of the time. His life was crazy and he did nonstop trials. To us, partnership feels laid back. And he has a ton of business he brought in from his gov contacts. And travels not at all, really. So what if he logs back in after dinner? So does literally almost everyone I know doing anything at all. Look, if you are a service partner for other partners, your life will suck. So don’t do that.

So your husband is a former govie litigator? Not surprising at all.

[Anonymous]

I’m the PP who works with a lot of big law teams but isn’t a lawyer.

I get the impression, by and large, these people are mostly happy, work a ton, motivated by their work (and motivated that their work makes money). I think the more likely unicorn is the 10M/Yr partner who is consumed by work and only a rainmaker bc he/she is always grinding. I think the average story is one of a busy professional who is doing slightly more hours than the standard higher powered DC job, achieves a passable work/life balance, etc. times have changed, most of the big attorneys I know truly value family time, vacation, etc. Millennials have been law firm partners for a few years now. COVID happened. There are different values in play than 10 years ago.

It’s still a high stress, demanding, very busy, long hour lifestyle, but I don’t think the standard story is one of a movie character who is totally checked out and home and always working and on the phone and is just money grubbing and always looking for a bigger and bigger paycheck.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m the PP who works with a lot of big law teams but isn’t a lawyer.

I get the impression, by and large, these people are mostly happy, work a ton, motivated by their work (and motivated that their work makes money). I think the more likely unicorn is the 10M/Yr partner who is consumed by work and only a rainmaker bc he/she is always grinding. I think the average story is one of a busy professional who is doing slightly more hours than the standard higher powered DC job, achieves a passable work/life balance, etc. times have changed, most of the big attorneys I know truly value family time, vacation, etc. Millennials have been law firm partners for a few years now. COVID happened. There are different values in play than 10 years ago.

It’s still a high stress, demanding, very busy, long hour lifestyle, but I don’t think the standard story is one of a movie character who is totally checked out and home and always working and on the phone and is just money grubbing and always looking for a bigger and bigger paycheck.

No one is saying that. But these guys are working on vacation, logging in most nights after dinner for more than just to “check emails”, and definitely are not coaching sports or sharing an equal load at home. In fact, on other threads that are about SAH with teenagers, these same wives all insist they “must” keep staying home because of the demands of her husbands “big job.” They are just playing both sides of the fiddle.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DH has worked at 3 different large firms, partner at the latter 2, and knowns almost no one that meets the description of these unicorn partners all these wives are describing. No one is happy - its all just golden handcuffs. We are socking money away like crazy so that DH can leave ASAP. The ones who aren't doing the same are super materialistic and just want MORE MORE MORE. They are the ones planning to buy their second and third homes and putting in a $200k backyard. And no they are definitely not coaching sports.

My husband is apparently a “unicorn”, but he spent years and years at the gov, high up in DOJ where he was, and this may throw you - insanely wildly busy and traveled 90% of the time. His life was crazy and he did nonstop trials. To us, partnership feels laid back. And he has a ton of business he brought in from his gov contacts. And travels not at all, really. So what if he logs back in after dinner? So does literally almost everyone I know doing anything at all. Look, if you are a service partner for other partners, your life will suck. So don’t do that.

So your husband is a former govie litigator? Not surprising at all.

This can be a good route but more difficult financially given the years of service. Working your way up as a junior partner and having to transition to bringing in most of your clients is tough and can take a lot of effort (time and not billable hours). Some who do great work behind the scenes are also not nearly as adept at this. Depending on your specialty, being a successful partner is a far different skillset than being a great associate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Spouse of big law partner here.

DH makes close to 2M. There has been one night in the last 6 months he wasn't home in time for dinner and bedtime. Oldest kid plays travel soccer, and he goes to every game (I don't - not my thing). He also coaches younger kid's sports team, so obviously attends / leads every weekday practice and every weekend game. The two of us have date night weekly, and usually spend an hour together every night after the kids are in bed. Then he does another 90 minutes of work while I read next to him.

Overall he works around 50-60 hours a week max. He's highly efficient and very smart (HYP educated), and he's also good at client relationships and managing other lawyers, so he brings in a lot since he takes a cut of the entire client bill - in other words, the hours of those he manages, not just his own hours. Working the longest hours is not always correlated with bringing in the most money.

I know it's tempting to believe that those with more money must somehow be miserable, but it's not always true.

My DH also earns around $2m. He is home for dinner and handles a lot of sports since that is his thing. I know people want to think that those with more money have unhappy families and that just isn’t true.