This is the first year in 13 years that I have completely dropped the rope with DH’s family

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder if this is a generational thing. Millennial here - and I agree with the PP who said she does not recognize this dynamic in her marriage. For those in the thick of it, how does it begin? I am newly (ish) married, and I guess I just can’t imagine my in laws calling me instead of their son (my DH) to plan things, even though we are really close. So, my question is, how does this dynamic develop in a family?

I’m Gen X. My husband is 55. He has always handled everything with his family. And he is really good at it. He is generally more thoughtful than I am when it comes to gift giving, etc. He is also just really close with his family — my family is more complicated and not as close. His family is an hour away and we see them once or twice a month. But the reality is that this is unusual. For many generations, the expectation was that the wife managed the family/home front. And this still exists as shown in a boatload of studies about what division of labor looks like. It starts with your MIL calling the “new wife” to organize the holidays. It starts with women doing all the Xmas shopping. It starts with the idea that the mom controls access to the kids. I know so many in the grandparent generation (varying from being in their 50s-80s) that completely blame the wife if they don’t get enough phone calls from their sons, etc. I usually gently call them out on it, but they don’t change their minds.

This may be getting better, but it still exists for many families.

Are you justifying this bs because this is sick. Sexism is not ok.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:After a horrific blow up last spring in which I was blamed and made the scapegoat. In the summer I said to him, no more. I don’t mind seeing them but you will do 100% of the hosting and need to be home for 100% of their visit- taking off work if necessary.

Therefore, for the holidays this year we are:

Not seeing or hosting them (he never planned it)

Not exchanging adult gifts (he decided he didn’t want to do it despite me saying that for years)

Also, he was in charge of giving them all the kids gift ideas as they want specific links to things to buy for the kids and want to chose from the options. He keeps complaining about this and it’s unclear if he’s done it as of today (I have provided these links the last 13 years).

I feel so free and happier than I have been in years! Why didn’t I do this earlier?!

I will one day advise my adult daughter- do not do the work for the husbands family, make him step up and do it. You cannot win. If you do it well, no one seems to care and you have just done a ton of work. If you mess up, you’ll be criticized. None of this is good for your marriage or yourself.

I have been married for 34 years, so take my opinions as you will. 55 years old. Adult kids and now grandkids. The advise you plan to give your daughter sucks. My husband's family IS my family. My family IS his family. To be honest, you sound kinda awful. The kind of behaviors you listed do not bode well for a long, happy marriage. Be sure to prepare for life as a single mother in case I'm right.

I'm older than you with adult kids and you are full it. I'm sure I've been happily married longer than you. You are a bitter sexist twit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Every argument on this board about sex and division of labor can be broken down into two factions: those who believe that, on avg, men and women have the exact same aptitude for emotional intelligence and executive functioning , and those who believe that, on avg, these skill sets differ noticably btwn the sexes.

Personally, I'm in the latter camp. That being said, my in-laws kind of irritate me and I have long since delegated direct communication and logistical planning to my DH. But the fact remains that if I didn't remind and actively encourage my DH to plan visits, it would never happen. Not bc he doesn't love them or want to see them and make sure they have a good relationship with our kids, but bc he just doesn't operate in a world where maintaining relations (outside of our marriage) is a priority. From talking to friends, I don't think he's that much of an outlier.

I think if you don't want to directly communicate with in laws and leave it to dh there can be good reasons for that, but if you take on literally every other aspect of your family's social lives except for in-law maintenance, you owe it to your kids and spouse to provide some reminders to your spouse to get it done

You’re in the wrong camp. It doesn’t take “aptitude” to make phone calls, ask people what they want, order it online, ask your kids what they want, send links to your parents. The presence of a penis does not make these Herculean tasks. Stop babying men.

This anti- male thing is so tired.

Your reading comprehension is terrible,

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sounds like this was a good decision for you personally, but what effect does this have on your kids? Will they now get unwanted gifts from the in-laws? Will their relationship with them suffer.

In my extended family one of my nephews wives does a similar divide and conquer with her husband. The net result is that we rarely get to see those kids. Her family gets a massive amount of time and access. Over time the relationship and respect towards that family has deteriorated. It’s unfortunate because we love them dearly but rarely get to see those kids. I see my other nieces and nephews and their children regularly. It’s a close and functional family but there is always this undercurrent of tension.

That's on your nephew, not his wife.

You are absolutely correct. It’s my nephew who is primarily at fault here. But the reality is that he is working crazy hours and traveling constantly and has little time. His wife has much more flexibility to make these kinds of things happen. She is the stay at home. It is not her “fault”. But the net result is the same. We rarely see them. It’s easy to say the obvious things that she is not responsible. And she isn’t. But it’s the kids that miss out.

You are still blaming the niece? It is plain as day that your nephew does not care that his kids have no relationship with you and your family. He does not care.

If the nephew’s wife is SAH then yes the responsibility really should be hers. It’s sort of part of the deal. If he’s busting his buns to support her and the family she can reach out on his behalf.

Domestic labor IS STILL labor. She does work. She works PLENTY. Have you ever had a nanny, babysitter, housecleaner? Do you pay them? Yes. So just because a family is choosing to have one person DO THOSE THINGS so another person can work for money, it does not mean you have MORE TIME. Bc running a house and raising children is WORK.

Absolutely. And part of that work is planning the holidays, is it not? And part of that is visiting extended family in some cases, right? So still under the SAH parent’s domain. And for the record, doesn’t matter what gender the SAH parent is.

No. Glad we could clear this up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sounds like this was a good decision for you personally, but what effect does this have on your kids? Will they now get unwanted gifts from the in-laws? Will their relationship with them suffer.

In my extended family one of my nephews wives does a similar divide and conquer with her husband. The net result is that we rarely get to see those kids. Her family gets a massive amount of time and access. Over time the relationship and respect towards that family has deteriorated. It’s unfortunate because we love them dearly but rarely get to see those kids. I see my other nieces and nephews and their children regularly. It’s a close and functional family but there is always this undercurrent of tension.

That's on your nephew, not his wife.

You are absolutely correct. It’s my nephew who is primarily at fault here. But the reality is that he is working crazy hours and traveling constantly and has little time. His wife has much more flexibility to make these kinds of things happen. She is the stay at home. It is not her “fault”. But the net result is the same. We rarely see them. It’s easy to say the obvious things that she is not responsible. And she isn’t. But it’s the kids that miss out.

You are still blaming the niece? It is plain as day that your nephew does not care that his kids have no relationship with you and your family. He does not care.

If the nephew’s wife is SAH then yes the responsibility really should be hers. It’s sort of part of the deal. If he’s busting his buns to support her and the family she can reach out on his behalf.

Domestic labor IS STILL labor. She does work. She works PLENTY. Have you ever had a nanny, babysitter, housecleaner? Do you pay them? Yes. So just because a family is choosing to have one person DO THOSE THINGS so another person can work for money, it does not mean you have MORE TIME. Bc running a house and raising children is WORK.

Absolutely. And part of that work is planning the holidays, is it not? And part of that is visiting extended family in some cases, right? So still under the SAH parent’s domain. And for the record, doesn’t matter what gender the SAH parent is.

No, it isn’t. Both parents have “day jobs” i.e. the daily grind/routine. Both are equally available for these one-off tasks. A SAHP takes on the job of a nanny, and maybe the job of a housekeeper. But that’s more than enough hours without also assigning that parent the job of personal assistant.

Ok, sounds like you have an awesome marriage. I’m sure your husband appreciates that.

Sorry. The rest of us aren’t playing the tired 1950s TradWife nonsense role you’ve chosen to take on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder if this is a generational thing. Millennial here - and I agree with the PP who said she does not recognize this dynamic in her marriage. For those in the thick of it, how does it begin? I am newly (ish) married, and I guess I just can’t imagine my in laws calling me instead of their son (my DH) to plan things, even though we are really close. So, my question is, how does this dynamic develop in a family?

I’m Gen X. My husband is 55. He has always handled everything with his family. And he is really good at it. He is generally more thoughtful than I am when it comes to gift giving, etc. He is also just really close with his family — my family is more complicated and not as close. His family is an hour away and we see them once or twice a month. But the reality is that this is unusual. For many generations, the expectation was that the wife managed the family/home front. And this still exists as shown in a boatload of studies about what division of labor looks like. It starts with your MIL calling the “new wife” to organize the holidays. It starts with women doing all the Xmas shopping. It starts with the idea that the mom controls access to the kids. I know so many in the grandparent generation (varying from being in their 50s-80s) that completely blame the wife if they don’t get enough phone calls from their sons, etc. I usually gently call them out on it, but they don’t change their minds.

This may be getting better, but it still exists for many families.

Are you justifying this bs because this is sick. Sexism is not ok.

No, the opposite. I’m explaining something that I think is wrong (and doesn’t exist in my marriage) to someone younger that claimed they have no idea how this even happens.

[Anonymous]

Just how far are people willing to take the “your family = your responsibility” mindset?

What happens if the husband decides not to make the trip to the wife’s family during the holidays? Say he decides to stay home and play video games or go golfing instead.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Every argument on this board about sex and division of labor can be broken down into two factions: those who believe that, on avg, men and women have the exact same aptitude for emotional intelligence and executive functioning , and those who believe that, on avg, these skill sets differ noticably btwn the sexes.

Personally, I'm in the latter camp. That being said, my in-laws kind of irritate me and I have long since delegated direct communication and logistical planning to my DH. But the fact remains that if I didn't remind and actively encourage my DH to plan visits, it would never happen. Not bc he doesn't love them or want to see them and make sure they have a good relationship with our kids, but bc he just doesn't operate in a world where maintaining relations (outside of our marriage) is a priority. From talking to friends, I don't think he's that much of an outlier.

I think if you don't want to directly communicate with in laws and leave it to dh there can be good reasons for that, but if you take on literally every other aspect of your family's social lives except for in-law maintenance, you owe it to your kids and spouse to provide some reminders to your spouse to get it done

You’re in the wrong camp. It doesn’t take “aptitude” to make phone calls, ask people what they want, order it online, ask your kids what they want, send links to your parents. The presence of a penis does not make these Herculean tasks. Stop babying men.

This anti- male thing is so tired.

How is it anti-male to say men are equally capable of maintaining relationships with their own families??

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Every argument on this board about sex and division of labor can be broken down into two factions: those who believe that, on avg, men and women have the exact same aptitude for emotional intelligence and executive functioning , and those who believe that, on avg, these skill sets differ noticably btwn the sexes.

Personally, I'm in the latter camp. That being said, my in-laws kind of irritate me and I have long since delegated direct communication and logistical planning to my DH. But the fact remains that if I didn't remind and actively encourage my DH to plan visits, it would never happen. Not bc he doesn't love them or want to see them and make sure they have a good relationship with our kids, but bc he just doesn't operate in a world where maintaining relations (outside of our marriage) is a priority. From talking to friends, I don't think he's that much of an outlier.

I think if you don't want to directly communicate with in laws and leave it to dh there can be good reasons for that, but if you take on literally every other aspect of your family's social lives except for in-law maintenance, you owe it to your kids and spouse to provide some reminders to your spouse to get it done

You’re in the wrong camp. It doesn’t take “aptitude” to make phone calls, ask people what they want, order it online, ask your kids what they want, send links to your parents. The presence of a penis does not make these Herculean tasks. Stop babying men.

This anti- male thing is so tired.

NP. No one is “anti-male,” especially as many of us have husbands who call their families, make plans and work out logistics with them, send them cards and gifts, and run interference if there is any confusion or disagreements. It’s not about being “anti-male,” it’s about being pro-responsibility, pro-basic contact with your own family, and pro-each spouse stepping up to make sure communication and logistics with their own family is handled.

My husband takes care of his family business; if he ever needs help with gift ideas, talking through possible logistics, or getting ideas on how to approach a situation, I help him out. And vice versa. That’s what a marriage of two healthy equals looks like.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I do all kinds of things for my in laws: getting them gifts, printing photos of the kids for them, arranging visits, having the kids make them cards, call them etc. But I do it because I really love my in laws and they have been wonderful to me. I’m very grateful to have them so I genuinely want to do nice things for them. That and the fact that my husband doesn’t do much of the above if I didn’t so we wouldn’t see or talk to them as often and our kids wouldn’t have as close s relationship w them—which is something that is very important to all of us. My husband is an equal partner in so many ways—dishes, laundry, childcare, etc—and he really loves his parents and has a great relationship w them but for whatever reason he’s just not good at planning and organizing our social life and family relationships at all (he really is fully present and great when we’re w them but he’s not good at planning the visit, he wants them to get gifts and cards from us/our kids but he can never think of what to get or doesn’t think of it til last minute so it’ll be late if I leave it to him) so I do it all including when it comes to his family.

The “whatever reason” that he’s not good at planning and organizing is because *he was modeled and taught that family dynamics and socializing are women’s work,” and you are now helping him model that for your children. Congrats on continuing this dynamic into the 2050s and beyond.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Just how far are people willing to take the “your family = your responsibility” mindset?

What happens if the husband decides not to make the trip to the wife’s family during the holidays? Say he decides to stay home and play video games or go golfing instead.

I mean, you tried it, but that’s not even about being with his wife’s family during the holidays, that’s being with HIS OWN family during the holidays. You know, as in his kids and his wife?

And by the way, both my husband and I have taken the kids to visit our parents while the other partner is on a business trip or just stays home to get house projects done. Not holidays, just regular long weekends. I once went on a girls’ trip and he took the kids to his parents’ house during that time. Everybody had a great weekend!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do all kinds of things for my in laws: getting them gifts, printing photos of the kids for them, arranging visits, having the kids make them cards, call them etc. But I do it because I really love my in laws and they have been wonderful to me. I’m very grateful to have them so I genuinely want to do nice things for them. That and the fact that my husband doesn’t do much of the above if I didn’t so we wouldn’t see or talk to them as often and our kids wouldn’t have as close s relationship w them—which is something that is very important to all of us. My husband is an equal partner in so many ways—dishes, laundry, childcare, etc—and he really loves his parents and has a great relationship w them but for whatever reason he’s just not good at planning and organizing our social life and family relationships at all (he really is fully present and great when we’re w them but he’s not good at planning the visit, he wants them to get gifts and cards from us/our kids but he can never think of what to get or doesn’t think of it til last minute so it’ll be late if I leave it to him) so I do it all including when it comes to his family.

It's no big mystery why your DH will be a thoughtful, equal partner for you but cannot be the same thoughtful son for his parents.
They are just lower on his priority list, as there's no risk about jeopardizing his relationship with them even if the presents and visits slipped through the cracks, unlike his relationship with you which he knows would suffer if he didn't work to maintain.
All of those expressing the same things (he is such a thoughtful and competent partner but too busy to think of presents and scheduling visits!), are all of these DHs able to hold down normal jobs and be communicative and thoughtful at work? If so, then he is absolutely capable of doing the same for his family or origin, it's just that he CHOOSEs not to.

DP I agree! I also want to add, because some misogynist will claim contrary, that no one is saying the PP shouldn't being doing that if that's what she CHOOSES to do. It is absolutely wrong if she does it because, as a woman, she's EXPECTED to do it. It's not unusual for one partner to pick up slack on something the other partner doesn't prioritize. It's one of the things you discuss in a relationship.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do all kinds of things for my in laws: getting them gifts, printing photos of the kids for them, arranging visits, having the kids make them cards, call them etc. But I do it because I really love my in laws and they have been wonderful to me. I’m very grateful to have them so I genuinely want to do nice things for them. That and the fact that my husband doesn’t do much of the above if I didn’t so we wouldn’t see or talk to them as often and our kids wouldn’t have as close s relationship w them—which is something that is very important to all of us. My husband is an equal partner in so many ways—dishes, laundry, childcare, etc—and he really loves his parents and has a great relationship w them but for whatever reason he’s just not good at planning and organizing our social life and family relationships at all (he really is fully present and great when we’re w them but he’s not good at planning the visit, he wants them to get gifts and cards from us/our kids but he can never think of what to get or doesn’t think of it til last minute so it’ll be late if I leave it to him) so I do it all including when it comes to his family.

It's no big mystery why your DH will be a thoughtful, equal partner for you but cannot be the same thoughtful son for his parents.
They are just lower on his priority list, as there's no risk about jeopardizing his relationship with them even if the presents and visits slipped through the cracks, unlike his relationship with you which he knows would suffer if he didn't work to maintain.
All of those expressing the same things (he is such a thoughtful and competent partner but too busy to think of presents and scheduling visits!), are all of these DHs able to hold down normal jobs and be communicative and thoughtful at work? If so, then he is absolutely capable of doing the same for his family or origin, it's just that he CHOOSEs not to.

DP I agree! I also want to add, because some misogynist will claim contrary, that no one is saying the PP shouldn't being doing that if that's what she CHOOSES to do. It is absolutely wrong if she does it because, as a woman, she's EXPECTED to do it. It's not unusual for one partner to pick up slack on something the other partner doesn't prioritize. It's one of the things you discuss in a relationship.

NP. Right…which is why the one and only response to the *Original Post* where OP said she’s dropping the rope because she doesn’t want to and it was never discussed and agreed upon in her relationship is: You Go, Girl, not “well now your children will suffer and it’s not even that much work, girl.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Just how far are people willing to take the “your family = your responsibility” mindset?

What happens if the husband decides not to make the trip to the wife’s family during the holidays? Say he decides to stay home and play video games or go golfing instead.

What happens is determined by the couple and none of your business.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just how far are people willing to take the “your family = your responsibility” mindset?

What happens if the husband decides not to make the trip to the wife’s family during the holidays? Say he decides to stay home and play video games or go golfing instead.

I mean, you tried it, but that’s not even about being with his wife’s family during the holidays, that’s being with HIS OWN family during the holidays. You know, as in his kids and his wife?

And by the way, both my husband and I have taken the kids to visit our parents while the other partner is on a business trip or just stays home to get house projects done. Not holidays, just regular long weekends. I once went on a girls’ trip and he took the kids to his parents’ house during that time. Everybody had a great weekend!

But it isn’t. In this case it’s about his nuclear family being with her family of origin at the holidays. Why should he have to do the physical labor of being present, suffer the discomfort of being outside his home and the emotional labor of interacting with her family during the holidays? If it was about the nuclear family being together during the holidays they could just do that in their own home without her family of origin.