This is the first year in 13 years that I have completely dropped the rope with DH’s family

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Every argument on this board about sex and division of labor can be broken down into two factions: those who believe that, on avg, men and women have the exact same aptitude for emotional intelligence and executive functioning , and those who believe that, on avg, these skill sets differ noticably btwn the sexes.

Personally, I'm in the latter camp. That being said, my in-laws kind of irritate me and I have long since delegated direct communication and logistical planning to my DH. But the fact remains that if I didn't remind and actively encourage my DH to plan visits, it would never happen. Not bc he doesn't love them or want to see them and make sure they have a good relationship with our kids, but bc he just doesn't operate in a world where maintaining relations (outside of our marriage) is a priority. From talking to friends, I don't think he's that much of an outlier.

I think if you don't want to directly communicate with in laws and leave it to dh there can be good reasons for that, but if you take on literally every other aspect of your family's social lives except for in-law maintenance, you owe it to your kids and spouse to provide some reminders to your spouse to get it done

You’re in the wrong camp. It doesn’t take “aptitude” to make phone calls, ask people what they want, order it online, ask your kids what they want, send links to your parents. The presence of a penis does not make these Herculean tasks. Stop babying men.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I wonder if this is a generational thing. Millennial here - and I agree with the PP who said she does not recognize this dynamic in her marriage. For those in the thick of it, how does it begin? I am newly (ish) married, and I guess I just can’t imagine my in laws calling me instead of their son (my DH) to plan things, even though we are really close. So, my question is, how does this dynamic develop in a family?

It starts with kids I think.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Every argument on this board about sex and division of labor can be broken down into two factions: those who believe that, on avg, men and women have the exact same aptitude for emotional intelligence and executive functioning , and those who believe that, on avg, these skill sets differ noticably btwn the sexes.

Personally, I'm in the latter camp. That being said, my in-laws kind of irritate me and I have long since delegated direct communication and logistical planning to my DH. But the fact remains that if I didn't remind and actively encourage my DH to plan visits, it would never happen. Not bc he doesn't love them or want to see them and make sure they have a good relationship with our kids, but bc he just doesn't operate in a world where maintaining relations (outside of our marriage) is a priority. From talking to friends, I don't think he's that much of an outlier.

I think if you don't want to directly communicate with in laws and leave it to dh there can be good reasons for that, but if you take on literally every other aspect of your family's social lives except for in-law maintenance, you owe it to your kids and spouse to provide some reminders to your spouse to get it done

You completely missed the point. The arguments aren't about aptitudes but about gendered roles. Specifically, that women should be managing familial relationships.

As a DW and mother of peole with ADHD/Executive Functioning xhallenges, there are a zh!t ton of compensating techiques that can be employed to compensate for weaknesses IF the relationships are deemed important. EQ/EF are explanations, not excuses. It is unacceptable to delegate based on gender.

Agree 1 million %

Ok, but if one spouse is handling all aspects of family social life except the in-law maintenance, then they need to be honest about why that's the one thing they won't touch with a 10 ft pole. I agree with posters who say it's the kids who lose. If you wouldn't let your DH handle the rest of the family social calendar bc it would impact you and or the kids negatively, this shouldn't be treated any differently.

Do you not know what Google calendar is? THAT is the familt calendar. If my DH wants to do something with his family, all he needs to do is CHECK THE CALENDAR. He then needs to PUT it on the calendar and send me an invite.

Maintaing a calendar is a life skill that every single person needs to have. People with EF especially need it. If the can do it for work, they xan do it for family.

And the kids don't lose. They learn that people, including their fathers, will make an effort when they deem it worthy. If their paternal relatives wznt z relationship, they, too can make an effort. Another important lesson is to recognize the misogyny that makes women responsible for managing relationships simply because their female.

There's a big difference btwn scheduling a dentist appointment and maintaining relationships. What other relationships does DH handle for your family? Playdates? Sleepovers? Carpools? If he handles those things too, then those tasks are evenly distributed. If he doesn't, then it's odd to single out this single relationship. You know he doesn't do those things well, and you know he'll let the relationship with the inlaws slide. If you like the inlaws, you wouldn't let this happen bc that would negatively impact the kids and you. But if you dislike the inlaws, its a relief.

More weaponized incompetence and excuse making. Yawn.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sounds like this was a good decision for you personally, but what effect does this have on your kids? Will they now get unwanted gifts from the in-laws? Will their relationship with them suffer.

In my extended family one of my nephews wives does a similar divide and conquer with her husband. The net result is that we rarely get to see those kids. Her family gets a massive amount of time and access. Over time the relationship and respect towards that family has deteriorated. It’s unfortunate because we love them dearly but rarely get to see those kids. I see my other nieces and nephews and their children regularly. It’s a close and functional family but there is always this undercurrent of tension.

That's on your nephew, not his wife.

You are absolutely correct. It’s my nephew who is primarily at fault here. But the reality is that he is working crazy hours and traveling constantly and has little time. His wife has much more flexibility to make these kinds of things happen. She is the stay at home. It is not her “fault”. But the net result is the same. We rarely see them. It’s easy to say the obvious things that she is not responsible. And she isn’t. But it’s the kids that miss out.

NP. You have some valid points but are missing out on the pros of this - which is that the kids are being modeled a relationship where the woman doesn’t automatically take on the mental load for the man because of x, y and z.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Every argument on this board about sex and division of labor can be broken down into two factions: those who believe that, on avg, men and women have the exact same aptitude for emotional intelligence and executive functioning , and those who believe that, on avg, these skill sets differ noticably btwn the sexes.

Personally, I'm in the latter camp. That being said, my in-laws kind of irritate me and I have long since delegated direct communication and logistical planning to my DH. But the fact remains that if I didn't remind and actively encourage my DH to plan visits, it would never happen. Not bc he doesn't love them or want to see them and make sure they have a good relationship with our kids, but bc he just doesn't operate in a world where maintaining relations (outside of our marriage) is a priority. From talking to friends, I don't think he's that much of an outlier.

I think if you don't want to directly communicate with in laws and leave it to dh there can be good reasons for that, but if you take on literally every other aspect of your family's social lives except for in-law maintenance, you owe it to your kids and spouse to provide some reminders to your spouse to get it done

You’re in the wrong camp. It doesn’t take “aptitude” to make phone calls, ask people what they want, order it online, ask your kids what they want, send links to your parents. The presence of a penis does not make these Herculean tasks. Stop babying men.

This anti- male thing is so tired.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sounds like this was a good decision for you personally, but what effect does this have on your kids? Will they now get unwanted gifts from the in-laws? Will their relationship with them suffer.

In my extended family one of my nephews wives does a similar divide and conquer with her husband. The net result is that we rarely get to see those kids. Her family gets a massive amount of time and access. Over time the relationship and respect towards that family has deteriorated. It’s unfortunate because we love them dearly but rarely get to see those kids. I see my other nieces and nephews and their children regularly. It’s a close and functional family but there is always this undercurrent of tension.

That's on your nephew, not his wife.

You are absolutely correct. It’s my nephew who is primarily at fault here. But the reality is that he is working crazy hours and traveling constantly and has little time. His wife has much more flexibility to make these kinds of things happen. She is the stay at home. It is not her “fault”. But the net result is the same. We rarely see them. It’s easy to say the obvious things that she is not responsible. And she isn’t. But it’s the kids that miss out.

You are still blaming the niece? It is plain as day that your nephew does not care that his kids have no relationship with you and your family. He does not care.

If the nephew’s wife is SAH then yes the responsibility really should be hers. It’s sort of part of the deal. If he’s busting his buns to support her and the family she can reach out on his behalf.

Domestic labor IS STILL labor. She does work. She works PLENTY. Have you ever had a nanny, babysitter, housecleaner? Do you pay them? Yes. So just because a family is choosing to have one person DO THOSE THINGS so another person can work for money, it does not mean you have MORE TIME. Bc running a house and raising children is WORK.

Absolutely. And part of that work is planning the holidays, is it not? And part of that is visiting extended family in some cases, right? So still under the SAH parent’s domain. And for the record, doesn’t matter what gender the SAH parent is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder if this is a generational thing. Millennial here - and I agree with the PP who said she does not recognize this dynamic in her marriage. For those in the thick of it, how does it begin? I am newly (ish) married, and I guess I just can’t imagine my in laws calling me instead of their son (my DH) to plan things, even though we are really close. So, my question is, how does this dynamic develop in a family?

It starts with kids I think.

Yup.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sounds like this was a good decision for you personally, but what effect does this have on your kids? Will they now get unwanted gifts from the in-laws? Will their relationship with them suffer.

In my extended family one of my nephews wives does a similar divide and conquer with her husband. The net result is that we rarely get to see those kids. Her family gets a massive amount of time and access. Over time the relationship and respect towards that family has deteriorated. It’s unfortunate because we love them dearly but rarely get to see those kids. I see my other nieces and nephews and their children regularly. It’s a close and functional family but there is always this undercurrent of tension.

That's on your nephew, not his wife.

You are absolutely correct. It’s my nephew who is primarily at fault here. But the reality is that he is working crazy hours and traveling constantly and has little time. His wife has much more flexibility to make these kinds of things happen. She is the stay at home. It is not her “fault”. But the net result is the same. We rarely see them. It’s easy to say the obvious things that she is not responsible. And she isn’t. But it’s the kids that miss out.

You are still blaming the niece? It is plain as day that your nephew does not care that his kids have no relationship with you and your family. He does not care.

If the nephew’s wife is SAH then yes the responsibility really should be hers. It’s sort of part of the deal. If he’s busting his buns to support her and the family she can reach out on his behalf.

Domestic labor IS STILL labor. She does work. She works PLENTY. Have you ever had a nanny, babysitter, housecleaner? Do you pay them? Yes. So just because a family is choosing to have one person DO THOSE THINGS so another person can work for money, it does not mean you have MORE TIME. Bc running a house and raising children is WORK.

Absolutely. And part of that work is planning the holidays, is it not? And part of that is visiting extended family in some cases, right? So still under the SAH parent’s domain. And for the record, doesn’t matter what gender the SAH parent is.

No, it isn’t. Both parents have “day jobs” i.e. the daily grind/routine. Both are equally available for these one-off tasks. A SAHP takes on the job of a nanny, and maybe the job of a housekeeper. But that’s more than enough hours without also assigning that parent the job of personal assistant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sounds like this was a good decision for you personally, but what effect does this have on your kids? Will they now get unwanted gifts from the in-laws? Will their relationship with them suffer.

In my extended family one of my nephews wives does a similar divide and conquer with her husband. The net result is that we rarely get to see those kids. Her family gets a massive amount of time and access. Over time the relationship and respect towards that family has deteriorated. It’s unfortunate because we love them dearly but rarely get to see those kids. I see my other nieces and nephews and their children regularly. It’s a close and functional family but there is always this undercurrent of tension.

That's on your nephew, not his wife.

You are absolutely correct. It’s my nephew who is primarily at fault here. But the reality is that he is working crazy hours and traveling constantly and has little time. His wife has much more flexibility to make these kinds of things happen. She is the stay at home. It is not her “fault”. But the net result is the same. We rarely see them. It’s easy to say the obvious things that she is not responsible. And she isn’t. But it’s the kids that miss out.

You are still blaming the niece? It is plain as day that your nephew does not care that his kids have no relationship with you and your family. He does not care.

If the nephew’s wife is SAH then yes the responsibility really should be hers. It’s sort of part of the deal. If he’s busting his buns to support her and the family she can reach out on his behalf.

Domestic labor IS STILL labor. She does work. She works PLENTY. Have you ever had a nanny, babysitter, housecleaner? Do you pay them? Yes. So just because a family is choosing to have one person DO THOSE THINGS so another person can work for money, it does not mean you have MORE TIME. Bc running a house and raising children is WORK.

Absolutely. And part of that work is planning the holidays, is it not? And part of that is visiting extended family in some cases, right? So still under the SAH parent’s domain. And for the record, doesn’t matter what gender the SAH parent is.

No, it isn’t. Both parents have “day jobs” i.e. the daily grind/routine. Both are equally available for these one-off tasks. A SAHP takes on the job of a nanny, and maybe the job of a housekeeper. But that’s more than enough hours without also assigning that parent the job of personal assistant.

Ok, sounds like you have an awesome marriage. I’m sure your husband appreciates that.

[Anonymous]

I do all kinds of things for my in laws: getting them gifts, printing photos of the kids for them, arranging visits, having the kids make them cards, call them etc. But I do it because I really love my in laws and they have been wonderful to me. I’m very grateful to have them so I genuinely want to do nice things for them. That and the fact that my husband doesn’t do much of the above if I didn’t so we wouldn’t see or talk to them as often and our kids wouldn’t have as close s relationship w them—which is something that is very important to all of us. My husband is an equal partner in so many ways—dishes, laundry, childcare, etc—and he really loves his parents and has a great relationship w them but for whatever reason he’s just not good at planning and organizing our social life and family relationships at all (he really is fully present and great when we’re w them but he’s not good at planning the visit, he wants them to get gifts and cards from us/our kids but he can never think of what to get or doesn’t think of it til last minute so it’ll be late if I leave it to him) so I do it all including when it comes to his family.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I do all kinds of things for my in laws: getting them gifts, printing photos of the kids for them, arranging visits, having the kids make them cards, call them etc. But I do it because I really love my in laws and they have been wonderful to me. I’m very grateful to have them so I genuinely want to do nice things for them. That and the fact that my husband doesn’t do much of the above if I didn’t so we wouldn’t see or talk to them as often and our kids wouldn’t have as close s relationship w them—which is something that is very important to all of us. My husband is an equal partner in so many ways—dishes, laundry, childcare, etc—and he really loves his parents and has a great relationship w them but for whatever reason he’s just not good at planning and organizing our social life and family relationships at all (he really is fully present and great when we’re w them but he’s not good at planning the visit, he wants them to get gifts and cards from us/our kids but he can never think of what to get or doesn’t think of it til last minute so it’ll be late if I leave it to him) so I do it all including when it comes to his family.

Want to add that if I didn’t really like and get along w my in laws and/or they weren’t such lovely people I would definitely NOT do this stuff unless my kids really wanted me to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I do all kinds of things for my in laws: getting them gifts, printing photos of the kids for them, arranging visits, having the kids make them cards, call them etc. But I do it because I really love my in laws and they have been wonderful to me. I’m very grateful to have them so I genuinely want to do nice things for them. That and the fact that my husband doesn’t do much of the above if I didn’t so we wouldn’t see or talk to them as often and our kids wouldn’t have as close s relationship w them—which is something that is very important to all of us. My husband is an equal partner in so many ways—dishes, laundry, childcare, etc—and he really loves his parents and has a great relationship w them but for whatever reason he’s just not good at planning and organizing our social life and family relationships at all (he really is fully present and great when we’re w them but he’s not good at planning the visit, he wants them to get gifts and cards from us/our kids but he can never think of what to get or doesn’t think of it til last minute so it’ll be late if I leave it to him) so I do it all including when it comes to his family.

It's no big mystery why your DH will be a thoughtful, equal partner for you but cannot be the same thoughtful son for his parents.
They are just lower on his priority list, as there's no risk about jeopardizing his relationship with them even if the presents and visits slipped through the cracks, unlike his relationship with you which he knows would suffer if he didn't work to maintain.
All of those expressing the same things (he is such a thoughtful and competent partner but too busy to think of presents and scheduling visits!), are all of these DHs able to hold down normal jobs and be communicative and thoughtful at work? If so, then he is absolutely capable of doing the same for his family or origin, it's just that he CHOOSEs not to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:After a horrific blow up last spring in which I was blamed and made the scapegoat. In the summer I said to him, no more. I don’t mind seeing them but you will do 100% of the hosting and need to be home for 100% of their visit- taking off work if necessary.

Therefore, for the holidays this year we are:

Not seeing or hosting them (he never planned it)

Not exchanging adult gifts (he decided he didn’t want to do it despite me saying that for years)

Also, he was in charge of giving them all the kids gift ideas as they want specific links to things to buy for the kids and want to chose from the options. He keeps complaining about this and it’s unclear if he’s done it as of today (I have provided these links the last 13 years).

I feel so free and happier than I have been in years! Why didn’t I do this earlier?!

I will one day advise my adult daughter- do not do the work for the husbands family, make him step up and do it. You cannot win. If you do it well, no one seems to care and you have just done a ton of work. If you mess up, you’ll be criticized. None of this is good for your marriage or yourself.

I have been married for 34 years, so take my opinions as you will. 55 years old. Adult kids and now grandkids. The advise you plan to give your daughter sucks. My husband's family IS my family. My family IS his family. To be honest, you sound kinda awful. The kind of behaviors you listed do not bode well for a long, happy marriage. Be sure to prepare for life as a single mother in case I'm right.

I've been married for 37 yeara, so take my opinion as you will. Adult kids & also grandkids. You are doing the absolutely right thing, OP! I see your mindset in my daughter's marriage, and it's refreshingly egalitarian. My SIL calls and plans events with his parents, and my daughter calls and plans events with me and my DH (her dad). When it comes to the holidays, DD and SIL talk together and lay out their plans to their respective families. It's sensible and fair.

You sound amazing!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sounds like this was a good decision for you personally, but what effect does this have on your kids? Will they now get unwanted gifts from the in-laws? Will their relationship with them suffer.

In my extended family one of my nephews wives does a similar divide and conquer with her husband. The net result is that we rarely get to see those kids. Her family gets a massive amount of time and access. Over time the relationship and respect towards that family has deteriorated. It’s unfortunate because we love them dearly but rarely get to see those kids. I see my other nieces and nephews and their children regularly. It’s a close and functional family but there is always this undercurrent of tension.

That's on your nephew, not his wife.

You are absolutely correct. It’s my nephew who is primarily at fault here. But the reality is that he is working crazy hours and traveling constantly and has little time. His wife has much more flexibility to make these kinds of things happen. She is the stay at home. It is not her “fault”. But the net result is the same. We rarely see them. It’s easy to say the obvious things that she is not responsible. And she isn’t. But it’s the kids that miss out.

Omg. You are so funny. NOT.

It's not her "fault" but it is her fault. You make no sense.

How do you know how much free time she has? Even when I worked more hours than my dh, I heard this same bs from his family.

Get your sexist azz out of here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sounds like this was a good decision for you personally, but what effect does this have on your kids? Will they now get unwanted gifts from the in-laws? Will their relationship with them suffer.

In my extended family one of my nephews wives does a similar divide and conquer with her husband. The net result is that we rarely get to see those kids. Her family gets a massive amount of time and access. Over time the relationship and respect towards that family has deteriorated. It’s unfortunate because we love them dearly but rarely get to see those kids. I see my other nieces and nephews and their children regularly. It’s a close and functional family but there is always this undercurrent of tension.

That's on your nephew, not his wife.

You are absolutely correct. It’s my nephew who is primarily at fault here. But the reality is that he is working crazy hours and traveling constantly and has little time. His wife has much more flexibility to make these kinds of things happen. She is the stay at home. It is not her “fault”. But the net result is the same. We rarely see them. It’s easy to say the obvious things that she is not responsible. And she isn’t. But it’s the kids that miss out.

You are still blaming the niece? It is plain as day that your nephew does not care that his kids have no relationship with you and your family. He does not care.

If the nephew’s wife is SAH then yes the responsibility really should be hers. It’s sort of part of the deal. If he’s busting his buns to support her and the family she can reach out on his behalf.

No it isn't. This is sexist garbage. There is no "deal". It's up to the individuals and not you. Go crawl back in to the 1950s where you came from grandma.