Friend with bad child being iced out of friend group

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We have friends with a destructive and nasty (he hits, kicks people and pets) son. We had to completely stop inviting them to our house and now only get together anywhere but our house. He is hyperactive add and is slightly better now (7 yo) but he’s never welcome back at my house. He traumatized my cats by pulling their tails and hitting them. The last time we saw them at the park he ran up to me and hit me.

You should have hit him back. Maybe this would teach him not to hit people.

And cats. If he had touched my cats he wouldn't be sitting down for a week, mom friend or not.

If you touch my kid, you won’t be able to walk again. Ever.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is not about SN children, but rather "bad" behavior more generally.

This is just a basic human social thing. No one likes to be around chaos. People like calm, predictable adults and children who do not make them feel like they are walking on eggshells, might get hit, have something in their home broken, etc. This is universal.

Many of us have calm homes with not a ton of screaming, breaking things, meltdowns, etc. It's true.

The fact that you feel comfortable/are resigned to dealing with with your child or family's chaos is understandable--you are a key participant and may not know how to diffuse situations, you may have low expectations for behavior, or you may actually feel stressed out but end up shutting down because you don't want to deal with conflict, etc.

None of that means that anyone else has to respect the way you run your family or the way your kid behaves. Unfortunately, again, people universally do not want to be around chaos. When you bring your tornado over and have no way of tempering what happens, leaving when it gets bad, apologizing, etc., people will stop hanging out with you.

My kids are teenagers who do not have anxiety and are thriving, for those of you who think anyone with any rules and a preference for calm is abusive and creates ticking time bombs. Quite the opposite--they know how to act and feel comfortable anywhere because they have been shown boundaries and manners from Day 1. It really does make their lives easier.

If your kid is a disaster and misbehaves in social situations, work on it--not while you are at the friend's--before, and agree with the kid on what behavior will end the visit. And then leave if that behavior occurs. You do not need to yell, cause a scene, etc. Believe it or not, other parents are doing this stuff. It actually helps them feel happier. You are in charge and you can do this!

The parents you’re addressing in fact can’t do this, because of learned helplessness. Look at these responses. They have decided that Science Herself says that their issues either have a diagnosis which means “we’re trying” when they aren’t, or that no diagnosis means “fun, lively kid,” even where a well-adjusted kid starts requesting that she never be forced to play with a sconce-ripping hitting machine.

In case you were wondering, comments like this are why I don’t tell people about my DC diagnosis. After multiple diagnostic appointments, hundreds of hours and thousands of dollars of interventional therapy and years of constant vigilance by myself and my DH my kid is now pretty well behaved; honestly better than many typical kids in some areas. But for years we were considered failures and lazy parents because my kid would have horrible, public (nonviolent) meltdowns, and clearly if you had a diagnosis you were making excuses and if you didn’t you were just a regular bad parent. So now I just don’t trust anyone, ever, with my DC medical information.

No one wants your medical info. If your kid seems triggered by certain situations, avoid them. And OP's friend should not take the sconce ripper to friends' houses unless she plans to supervise.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is not about SN children, but rather "bad" behavior more generally.

This is just a basic human social thing. No one likes to be around chaos. People like calm, predictable adults and children who do not make them feel like they are walking on eggshells, might get hit, have something in their home broken, etc. This is universal.

Many of us have calm homes with not a ton of screaming, breaking things, meltdowns, etc. It's true.

The fact that you feel comfortable/are resigned to dealing with with your child or family's chaos is understandable--you are a key participant and may not know how to diffuse situations, you may have low expectations for behavior, or you may actually feel stressed out but end up shutting down because you don't want to deal with conflict, etc.

None of that means that anyone else has to respect the way you run your family or the way your kid behaves. Unfortunately, again, people universally do not want to be around chaos. When you bring your tornado over and have no way of tempering what happens, leaving when it gets bad, apologizing, etc., people will stop hanging out with you.

My kids are teenagers who do not have anxiety and are thriving, for those of you who think anyone with any rules and a preference for calm is abusive and creates ticking time bombs. Quite the opposite--they know how to act and feel comfortable anywhere because they have been shown boundaries and manners from Day 1. It really does make their lives easier.

If your kid is a disaster and misbehaves in social situations, work on it--not while you are at the friend's--before, and agree with the kid on what behavior will end the visit. And then leave if that behavior occurs. You do not need to yell, cause a scene, etc. Believe it or not, other parents are doing this stuff. It actually helps them feel happier. You are in charge and you can do this!

The parents you’re addressing in fact can’t do this, because of learned helplessness. Look at these responses. They have decided that Science Herself says that their issues either have a diagnosis which means “we’re trying” when they aren’t, or that no diagnosis means “fun, lively kid,” even where a well-adjusted kid starts requesting that she never be forced to play with a sconce-ripping hitting machine.

In case you were wondering, comments like this are why I don’t tell people about my DC diagnosis. After multiple diagnostic appointments, hundreds of hours and thousands of dollars of interventional therapy and years of constant vigilance by myself and my DH my kid is now pretty well behaved; honestly better than many typical kids in some areas. But for years we were considered failures and lazy parents because my kid would have horrible, public (nonviolent) meltdowns, and clearly if you had a diagnosis you were making excuses and if you didn’t you were just a regular bad parent. So now I just don’t trust anyone, ever, with my DC medical information.

Same. Tired of dealing with the ignorance and arrogance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We teach our children to have boundaries. We teach them that if they're treated badly - when someone is physically hurting them or makes them afraid - use boundaries.

This behavior is not acceptable and should not be tolerated.

Kindness and inclusion here can be extended to the mom, alone, without her child.

\

I'm really glad you just came out and said it. No kindness for the disabled child. And people wonder why parents with "bad" children don't confide in them?

Your reading comprehension is terrible.

Nope. She read it just fine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why don’t you invite them to do stuff outside the house. Meet at a playground, go to a pumpkins patch etc?

He hits and makes other kids cry and your answer is “meet them outside?” Yeah, no. The correct answer is, as they’ve been doing, “don’t meet them at all.”

Dp. He probably won't hit outside. Being in a less stressful environment for the and being able to burn off energy freely can go a long way for an ADHD kid. Maybe he has other issues, we don't know. But the people here with experience with children with ADHD are suggesting outside for good reason.

But, you do you with your "correct answer." 🤷‍♀️

Thanks for your permission. I will.

-adult with ADHD who’s pretty sick of internet strangers assuming every kid with behavior regulation issues and no professional diagnosis has ADHD

Regulation issues are the root of ADHD so it's not a terrible assumption.

It is a terrible assumption, because behavior regulation issues are also indicative of a whole host of other issues *besides* ADHD.

That that many. It may not be ADHD but that’s the most likely answer. Horse, not zebra.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is not about SN children, but rather "bad" behavior more generally.

This is just a basic human social thing. No one likes to be around chaos. People like calm, predictable adults and children who do not make them feel like they are walking on eggshells, might get hit, have something in their home broken, etc. This is universal.

Many of us have calm homes with not a ton of screaming, breaking things, meltdowns, etc. It's true.

The fact that you feel comfortable/are resigned to dealing with with your child or family's chaos is understandable--you are a key participant and may not know how to diffuse situations, you may have low expectations for behavior, or you may actually feel stressed out but end up shutting down because you don't want to deal with conflict, etc.

None of that means that anyone else has to respect the way you run your family or the way your kid behaves. Unfortunately, again, people universally do not want to be around chaos. When you bring your tornado over and have no way of tempering what happens, leaving when it gets bad, apologizing, etc., people will stop hanging out with you.

My kids are teenagers who do not have anxiety and are thriving, for those of you who think anyone with any rules and a preference for calm is abusive and creates ticking time bombs. Quite the opposite--they know how to act and feel comfortable anywhere because they have been shown boundaries and manners from Day 1. It really does make their lives easier.

If your kid is a disaster and misbehaves in social situations, work on it--not while you are at the friend's--before, and agree with the kid on what behavior will end the visit. And then leave if that behavior occurs. You do not need to yell, cause a scene, etc. Believe it or not, other parents are doing this stuff. It actually helps them feel happier. You are in charge and you can do this!

The parents you’re addressing in fact can’t do this, because of learned helplessness. Look at these responses. They have decided that Science Herself says that their issues either have a diagnosis which means “we’re trying” when they aren’t, or that no diagnosis means “fun, lively kid,” even where a well-adjusted kid starts requesting that she never be forced to play with a sconce-ripping hitting machine.

In case you were wondering, comments like this are why I don’t tell people about my DC diagnosis. After multiple diagnostic appointments, hundreds of hours and thousands of dollars of interventional therapy and years of constant vigilance by myself and my DH my kid is now pretty well behaved; honestly better than many typical kids in some areas. But for years we were considered failures and lazy parents because my kid would have horrible, public (nonviolent) meltdowns, and clearly if you had a diagnosis you were making excuses and if you didn’t you were just a regular bad parent. So now I just don’t trust anyone, ever, with my DC medical information.

No one wants your medical info. If your kid seems triggered by certain situations, avoid them. And OP's friend should not take the sconce ripper to friends' houses unless she plans to supervise.

THIS. It’s obvious the mom was not supervising and vigilant for the child to not only rip the scones off the wall but to hit multiple kids and make them all cry.

I have a good friend with SN child who my DS plays with and we all regularly go do fun activities inside and outside in DC. From age 3 to 7, she was hyper vigilant and always had eyes on her son. She always intervene before something major happens. He is now 8 and just this year did she loosen that hold after years of support and behavioral therapy. He is doing great.

[Anonymous]

I have a very active child and I am trying to understand how he could remove a sconce from a wall

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP - you have answered.othwr questions but have specifically avoided the one about what the parent response is. When the kid was pulling out lighting or hitting people, what do the parents do? Did they leave? Did they apologize? Did they hiver the whole time and still this happened?

I feel like you are avoiding answering those questions and it makes me think the parent is super involved and struggling and trying all the strategies and you and your social group is still isolating them after ten years of friendship. Which probably sucks for the other family who is already suffering.

They are middle of road. They don’t hover. They do correct bad behavior and investigate situation if child makes others cry. Their older child is wonderful and well behaved. As I mentioned in the OP, I suspect child has some sort of behavioral disorder. I don’t know if parents have had him tested. Mom doesn’t discuss any concerns or parenting hardships. She isn’t a complainer.

The problem here is that this child’s behavior is very abnormal and either the mom is in denial or she is not confiding in you, which is surprising since you have known each other for so long.

So you should just tell her OP that due to the child’s behavior of hitting and making your kids cry, that they don’t want to play with him. Let’s just have mom get together now and then.

Have you read this thread? It s not surprising at all that the other mother has not confided in OP. The judgment and lack of compassion you see here is what a parent with a kid with SN encounters every single day. She should confide in OP who silently diagnoses her child and then excludes her family? You have no idea what you are talking about.

OP, you won’t be the first or the last person to “ice out” a friend who needs support. Just do it and get it over with so the other mom can grieve another loss and move on.

Judgement and lack of compassion? Did you not read OP’s post? The kid is destructive, hitting other kids. And this is not the 1st episode since it has happen to other families who OP has asked.

What compassion do you expect OP and other moms to have for a kid with repeated, repeated destructive and cruel behavior that is harmful to other kids?? Wait, let’s have some compassion until a kid really gets hurt and needs to go to the hospital.

OP is insightful enough to realize that this is not normal and an underlying diagnosis is likely. If the mom doesn’t want to tell OP and can’t adequately supervise her kid or continues to put the kid in these situations where things get way out of hand, then OP is right to say that her kids can’t play with this kid.

No I don’t have SN kid. I have a NT kid who is friends with 2 different families, both with SN kids and I’m friends with the moms who confide in me some of their struggles and challenges. I and my kid get together with both of these families and we do stuff together. So yea, I have no idea what I’m talking about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am having flashbacks to the parent meeting I went to when my daughter was in 1st grade at a pretty progressive school. The parents of a little boy who was basically a non-stop issue/distraction were going on and on about how he was a genius and like the next Steve Jobs, and to impose societal norms on him would stifle his creativity.

They finally had to kick the kid out. He was not SN. He was just a spoiled brat with stupid parents.

Hey this was a King of the Hill episode!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am having flashbacks to the parent meeting I went to when my daughter was in 1st grade at a pretty progressive school. The parents of a little boy who was basically a non-stop issue/distraction were going on and on about how he was a genius and like the next Steve Jobs, and to impose societal norms on him would stifle his creativity.

They finally had to kick the kid out. He was not SN. He was just a spoiled brat with stupid parents.

Hey this was a King of the Hill episode!

LOL I will try to find it. I was like having an out of body experience during the meeting. Insanity!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is not about SN children, but rather "bad" behavior more generally.

This is just a basic human social thing. No one likes to be around chaos. People like calm, predictable adults and children who do not make them feel like they are walking on eggshells, might get hit, have something in their home broken, etc. This is universal.

Many of us have calm homes with not a ton of screaming, breaking things, meltdowns, etc. It's true.

The fact that you feel comfortable/are resigned to dealing with with your child or family's chaos is understandable--you are a key participant and may not know how to diffuse situations, you may have low expectations for behavior, or you may actually feel stressed out but end up shutting down because you don't want to deal with conflict, etc.

None of that means that anyone else has to respect the way you run your family or the way your kid behaves. Unfortunately, again, people universally do not want to be around chaos. When you bring your tornado over and have no way of tempering what happens, leaving when it gets bad, apologizing, etc., people will stop hanging out with you.

My kids are teenagers who do not have anxiety and are thriving, for those of you who think anyone with any rules and a preference for calm is abusive and creates ticking time bombs. Quite the opposite--they know how to act and feel comfortable anywhere because they have been shown boundaries and manners from Day 1. It really does make their lives easier.

If your kid is a disaster and misbehaves in social situations, work on it--not while you are at the friend's--before, and agree with the kid on what behavior will end the visit. And then leave if that behavior occurs. You do not need to yell, cause a scene, etc. Believe it or not, other parents are doing this stuff. It actually helps them feel happier. You are in charge and you can do this!

The parents you’re addressing in fact can’t do this, because of learned helplessness. Look at these responses. They have decided that Science Herself says that their issues either have a diagnosis which means “we’re trying” when they aren’t, or that no diagnosis means “fun, lively kid,” even where a well-adjusted kid starts requesting that she never be forced to play with a sconce-ripping hitting machine.

In case you were wondering, comments like this are why I don’t tell people about my DC diagnosis. After multiple diagnostic appointments, hundreds of hours and thousands of dollars of interventional therapy and years of constant vigilance by myself and my DH my kid is now pretty well behaved; honestly better than many typical kids in some areas. But for years we were considered failures and lazy parents because my kid would have horrible, public (nonviolent) meltdowns, and clearly if you had a diagnosis you were making excuses and if you didn’t you were just a regular bad parent. So now I just don’t trust anyone, ever, with my DC medical information.

No one wants your medical info. If your kid seems triggered by certain situations, avoid them. And OP's friend should not take the sconce ripper to friends' houses unless she plans to supervise.

THIS. It’s obvious the mom was not supervising and vigilant for the child to not only rip the scones off the wall but to hit multiple kids and make them all cry.

I have a good friend with SN child who my DS plays with and we all regularly go do fun activities inside and outside in DC. From age 3 to 7, she was hyper vigilant and always had eyes on her son. She always intervene before something major happens. He is now 8 and just this year did she loosen that hold after years of support and behavioral therapy. He is doing great.

+ 1.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have a very active child and I am trying to understand how he could remove a sconce from a wall

+1

I also think there are a lot of parents here who relate to OP’s post.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a very active child and I am trying to understand how he could remove a sconce from a wall

+1

I also think there are a lot of parents here who relate to OP’s post.

+ 1.

No one is demanding private medical information from other families. But if you as a parent are snapping off here because you feel your cheeks burning because you similarly cannot guide your DC or predict bad situations to the degree that OP is describing (and she has shown no vitriol describing the mother or child), you’re pissed because you know you’re not being a good anything: parent, friend, neighbor; you’re not being kind, or fair, and you know it. And anonymously, there’s terrific freedom in calling that shit parenting as far as the burden you’re putting on other kids and their parents. Because it is.

[Anonymous]

Speaking of ignorance and arrogance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Speaking of ignorance and arrogance.

We all hope the next IEP takes and the ‘explosive child’ book series really helps out. Blessings and best of luck to you.