Apple river tubing killing

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even though the 52 year old is reported to weigh 250 pounds, it is a pot-bellied, fairly flabby, out-of-shape 250 pounds.

Hopefully, there is audio tape to accompany the video tape. What if the group was shouting "child molester" at the man while he was being pushed back down into the water and, seemingly,not being allowed to leave ?

I keep wondering who really instigated and escalated and continued to escalate this encounter. Sure does not appear that the 17 year old and the others in their twenties were afraid or willing to walk away.

Reports issued *by the police* say that the video shows he had ample time to leave, and several windows of time to do so.

At what point did the man have an opportunity to leave ? Was he under any duty to leave ?

What a great question. According to a defense attorney who successfully represented a client who was fully acquitted of a self-defense stabbing, YES, he had a duty to leave:

"The most notable thing, in my opinion, is there are several references [in the criminal complaint] to 'route of egress,' or his ability to flee the situation," Nelson said.

According to the criminal complaint, video evidence "shows opportunity for Miu to leave the confrontation."

Nelson said Wisconsin essentially has a duty for someone to retreat, if possible, before using deadly force.

There is another detail that would hurt a self-defense claim.

A woman involved in the confrontation told police "what started the physical assault was Miu punched the woman."

"You can't claim self-defense if you're the first aggressor or you're engaged in unlawful conduct that provokes another to assault you," Nelson said.

That punch is apparently not caught on the bystander video, which is not publicly available.

Nelson predicts it will be a complicated trial.


https://www.kare11.com/article/news/crime/does-the-apple-river-stabbing-suspect-nick-miu-have-strong-self-defense-claim/89-616bef7d-f10e-442e-898e-0b239bb49b84

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You leave. You leave and you call the police. He had time to leave and call the police. At the end of the day, it was a cell phone. Leave it. You can get a new cell phone; you can’t get back a dead teen, or your ruined life.

You leave and you call the police.

It’s like we tell our kids: you don’t fight, you don’t hit, you don’t get violent, you walk away and ask for help.

He was under no obligation to leave. He wanted to keep looking for the phone. They didn’t have to surround him, continue to harrass him, and start a physical altercation first.

Never said they were justified in doing what they did. What I did say was—in any escalating, dangerous situation—YOU LEAVE. And he had the opportunity to do so. Now a teen is dead, and he will go to jail for life or will have some other significant sentence. He will be separated from his family. He will pay exorbitant legal fees. He will think about this every day for the rest of his life. And a teen is dead. If that was your teenage son or daughter, would you have wanted this guy to “stand his ground”? You walk away. Period.

NP

I hate living in a world like this. Where people get to be aggressive a$$holes and my only option (according to you) is to walk away. It ain’t right. Eff that sh!t.

OK, keep “living in a world” where teenagers get stabbed to death and the guy who inflicted the wounds has his life completely ruined forever, even if he gets a lenient sentence. Because even if he gets minimal time, this will haunt his life forever. You keep living in THAT world. Shrug.

A person surrounded by a taunting group has every right to protect himself.

God gave him two legs with which to protect himself by walking away. When people start coming toward you and saying things you don’t like, you can leave and rejoin your group. But this guy was spoiling for “self-defense.” He was spoiling for a fight. Hope he enjoyed gutting those people; his few minutes of giving into his desire for vengeance have now cost him essentially the rest of his life. Even if he doesn’t end up behind bars for the maximum amount of time, he will be a convicted murderer. Guilty.

From what I read, they falsely accused him and he was being shoved back into the water. Why didn't the group move away?

Falsely accusing someone/insulting them is certainly rude. Shoving people is certainly not OK. But last time I checked, those weren't justifiable reasons to murder one person and injure four others so seriously that all had to go to the hospital, and two had to be ***airlifted*** there.

Shoving someone repeatedly down into the water is attempted murder.

See you back here on sentencing day with a big smile!

Why would you smile? This is a tragedy all around. But it reminds me of the ding dong ditch thread. Teenaged young men provoking strangers with no regard to consequences of making someone feel threatened and surrounded.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm saying we need to wait for the facts to get sorted out. For example, can you cite evidence the kids were drunk? The first group were teen agers.

This man's reputation is being smeared across news outlets, and hes being held on a million dollar bond,based on the word ofvdrunk individuals and teens. He may be guilty as charged, but it doesn't seem as if anyone is waiting for facts.

His reputation is being "smeared" because he stabbed a 17yo to death and sent four others to the hospital. A few defensive knife hits to scare them off and show them he wouldn't be harmed by them is one thing. Gutting them, literally gutting them, is quite another.

They were surrounding him and attacking him. If I were him I’d be terrified that if I just gave a quick swipe with my knife they’d easily swarm me and take the knife and use it on ME

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even though the 52 year old is reported to weigh 250 pounds, it is a pot-bellied, fairly flabby, out-of-shape 250 pounds.

Hopefully, there is audio tape to accompany the video tape. What if the group was shouting "child molester" at the man while he was being pushed back down into the water and, seemingly,not being allowed to leave ?

I keep wondering who really instigated and escalated and continued to escalate this encounter. Sure does not appear that the 17 year old and the others in their twenties were afraid or willing to walk away.

Reports issued *by the police* say that the video shows he had ample time to leave, and several windows of time to do so.

At what point did the man have an opportunity to leave ? Was he under any duty to leave ?

What a great question. According to a defense attorney who successfully represented a client who was fully acquitted of a self-defense stabbing, YES, he had a duty to leave:

"The most notable thing, in my opinion, is there are several references [in the criminal complaint] to 'route of egress,' or his ability to flee the situation," Nelson said.

According to the criminal complaint, video evidence "shows opportunity for Miu to leave the confrontation."

Nelson said Wisconsin essentially has a duty for someone to retreat, if possible, before using deadly force.

There is another detail that would hurt a self-defense claim.

A woman involved in the confrontation told police "what started the physical assault was Miu punched the woman."

"You can't claim self-defense if you're the first aggressor or you're engaged in unlawful conduct that provokes another to assault you," Nelson said.

That punch is apparently not caught on the bystander video, which is not publicly available.

Nelson predicts it will be a complicated trial.


https://www.kare11.com/article/news/crime/does-the-apple-river-stabbing-suspect-nick-miu-have-strong-self-defense-claim/89-616bef7d-f10e-442e-898e-0b239bb49b84

I dont understand laws that say you have to wait to be hit. Or wait til intruders on your porch enter your home. Angry groups are scary. So are threatening burglars.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even though the 52 year old is reported to weigh 250 pounds, it is a pot-bellied, fairly flabby, out-of-shape 250 pounds.

Hopefully, there is audio tape to accompany the video tape. What if the group was shouting "child molester" at the man while he was being pushed back down into the water and, seemingly,not being allowed to leave ?

I keep wondering who really instigated and escalated and continued to escalate this encounter. Sure does not appear that the 17 year old and the others in their twenties were afraid or willing to walk away.

Reports issued *by the police* say that the video shows he had ample time to leave, and several windows of time to do so.

And the mob that was attacking him? Did they have ample time to leave?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even though the 52 year old is reported to weigh 250 pounds, it is a pot-bellied, fairly flabby, out-of-shape 250 pounds.

Hopefully, there is audio tape to accompany the video tape. What if the group was shouting "child molester" at the man while he was being pushed back down into the water and, seemingly,not being allowed to leave ?

I keep wondering who really instigated and escalated and continued to escalate this encounter. Sure does not appear that the 17 year old and the others in their twenties were afraid or willing to walk away.

Reports issued *by the police* say that the video shows he had ample time to leave, and several windows of time to do so.

At what point did the man have an opportunity to leave ? Was he under any duty to leave ?

What a great question. According to a defense attorney who successfully represented a client who was fully acquitted of a self-defense stabbing, YES, he had a duty to leave:

"The most notable thing, in my opinion, is there are several references [in the criminal complaint] to 'route of egress,' or his ability to flee the situation," Nelson said.

According to the criminal complaint, video evidence "shows opportunity for Miu to leave the confrontation."

Nelson said Wisconsin essentially has a duty for someone to retreat, if possible, before using deadly force.

There is another detail that would hurt a self-defense claim.

A woman involved in the confrontation told police "what started the physical assault was Miu punched the woman."

"You can't claim self-defense if you're the first aggressor or you're engaged in unlawful conduct that provokes another to assault you," Nelson said.

That punch is apparently not caught on the bystander video, which is not publicly available.

Nelson predicts it will be a complicated trial.


https://www.kare11.com/article/news/crime/does-the-apple-river-stabbing-suspect-nick-miu-have-strong-self-defense-claim/89-616bef7d-f10e-442e-898e-0b239bb49b84

I dont understand laws that say you have to wait to be hit. Or wait til intruders on your porch enter your home. Angry groups are scary. So are threatening burglars.

Do you not get that those paragraphs are the WORDS OF A DEFENSE ATTORNEY from the news story linked below? Honey, *I* didn't say anything!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even though the 52 year old is reported to weigh 250 pounds, it is a pot-bellied, fairly flabby, out-of-shape 250 pounds.

Hopefully, there is audio tape to accompany the video tape. What if the group was shouting "child molester" at the man while he was being pushed back down into the water and, seemingly,not being allowed to leave ?

I keep wondering who really instigated and escalated and continued to escalate this encounter. Sure does not appear that the 17 year old and the others in their twenties were afraid or willing to walk away.

Reports issued *by the police* say that the video shows he had ample time to leave, and several windows of time to do so.

And the mob that was attacking him? Did they have ample time to leave?

That will come up in trial, but there's a difference between a few punches and gutting someone with a knife.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even though the 52 year old is reported to weigh 250 pounds, it is a pot-bellied, fairly flabby, out-of-shape 250 pounds.

Hopefully, there is audio tape to accompany the video tape. What if the group was shouting "child molester" at the man while he was being pushed back down into the water and, seemingly,not being allowed to leave ?

I keep wondering who really instigated and escalated and continued to escalate this encounter. Sure does not appear that the 17 year old and the others in their twenties were afraid or willing to walk away.

Reports issued *by the police* say that the video shows he had ample time to leave, and several windows of time to do so.

At what point did the man have an opportunity to leave ? Was he under any duty to leave ?

What a great question. According to a defense attorney who successfully represented a client who was fully acquitted of a self-defense stabbing, YES, he had a duty to leave:

"The most notable thing, in my opinion, is there are several references [in the criminal complaint] to 'route of egress,' or his ability to flee the situation," Nelson said.

According to the criminal complaint, video evidence "shows opportunity for Miu to leave the confrontation."

Nelson said Wisconsin essentially has a duty for someone to retreat, if possible, before using deadly force.

There is another detail that would hurt a self-defense claim.

A woman involved in the confrontation told police "what started the physical assault was Miu punched the woman."

"You can't claim self-defense if you're the first aggressor or you're engaged in unlawful conduct that provokes another to assault you," Nelson said.

That punch is apparently not caught on the bystander video, which is not publicly available.

Nelson predicts it will be a complicated trial.


https://www.kare11.com/article/news/crime/does-the-apple-river-stabbing-suspect-nick-miu-have-strong-self-defense-claim/89-616bef7d-f10e-442e-898e-0b239bb49b84

I dont understand laws that say you have to wait to be hit. Or wait til intruders on your porch enter your home. Angry groups are scary. So are threatening burglars.

Do you not get that those paragraphs are the WORDS OF A DEFENSE ATTORNEY from the news story linked below? Honey, *I* didn't say anything!

No one said you said anything . The poster was discussing the law and how she disagrees with it. She implied that she knows it’s the law

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even though the 52 year old is reported to weigh 250 pounds, it is a pot-bellied, fairly flabby, out-of-shape 250 pounds.

Hopefully, there is audio tape to accompany the video tape. What if the group was shouting "child molester" at the man while he was being pushed back down into the water and, seemingly,not being allowed to leave ?

I keep wondering who really instigated and escalated and continued to escalate this encounter. Sure does not appear that the 17 year old and the others in their twenties were afraid or willing to walk away.

Reports issued *by the police* say that the video shows he had ample time to leave, and several windows of time to do so.

At what point did the man have an opportunity to leave ? Was he under any duty to leave ?

What a great question. According to a defense attorney who successfully represented a client who was fully acquitted of a self-defense stabbing, YES, he had a duty to leave:

"The most notable thing, in my opinion, is there are several references [in the criminal complaint] to 'route of egress,' or his ability to flee the situation," Nelson said.

According to the criminal complaint, video evidence "shows opportunity for Miu to leave the confrontation."

Nelson said Wisconsin essentially has a duty for someone to retreat, if possible, before using deadly force.

There is another detail that would hurt a self-defense claim.

A woman involved in the confrontation told police "what started the physical assault was Miu punched the woman."

"You can't claim self-defense if you're the first aggressor or you're engaged in unlawful conduct that provokes another to assault you," Nelson said.

That punch is apparently not caught on the bystander video, which is not publicly available.

Nelson predicts it will be a complicated trial.


https://www.kare11.com/article/news/crime/does-the-apple-river-stabbing-suspect-nick-miu-have-strong-self-defense-claim/89-616bef7d-f10e-442e-898e-0b239bb49b84

I dont understand laws that say you have to wait to be hit. Or wait til intruders on your porch enter your home. Angry groups are scary. So are threatening burglars.

Do you not get that those paragraphs are the WORDS OF A DEFENSE ATTORNEY from the news story linked below? Honey, *I* didn't say anything!

PP here. 👍

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even though the 52 year old is reported to weigh 250 pounds, it is a pot-bellied, fairly flabby, out-of-shape 250 pounds.

Hopefully, there is audio tape to accompany the video tape. What if the group was shouting "child molester" at the man while he was being pushed back down into the water and, seemingly,not being allowed to leave ?

I keep wondering who really instigated and escalated and continued to escalate this encounter. Sure does not appear that the 17 year old and the others in their twenties were afraid or willing to walk away.

Reports issued *by the police* say that the video shows he had ample time to leave, and several windows of time to do so.

At what point did the man have an opportunity to leave ? Was he under any duty to leave ?

What a great question. According to a defense attorney who successfully represented a client who was fully acquitted of a self-defense stabbing, YES, he had a duty to leave:

"The most notable thing, in my opinion, is there are several references [in the criminal complaint] to 'route of egress,' or his ability to flee the situation," Nelson said.

According to the criminal complaint, video evidence "shows opportunity for Miu to leave the confrontation."

Nelson said Wisconsin essentially has a duty for someone to retreat, if possible, before using deadly force.

There is another detail that would hurt a self-defense claim.

A woman involved in the confrontation told police "what started the physical assault was Miu punched the woman."

"You can't claim self-defense if you're the first aggressor or you're engaged in unlawful conduct that provokes another to assault you," Nelson said.

That punch is apparently not caught on the bystander video, which is not publicly available.

Nelson predicts it will be a complicated trial.


https://www.kare11.com/article/news/crime/does-the-apple-river-stabbing-suspect-nick-miu-have-strong-self-defense-claim/89-616bef7d-f10e-442e-898e-0b239bb49b84

I dont understand laws that say you have to wait to be hit. Or wait til intruders on your porch enter your home. Angry groups are scary. So are threatening burglars.

Do you not get that those paragraphs are the WORDS OF A DEFENSE ATTORNEY from the news story linked below? Honey, *I* didn't say anything!

No one said you said anything . The poster was discussing the law and how she disagrees with it. She implied that she knows it’s the law

Welp, what are you gonna do, take it up with the lawmakers? He'll be tried under the current state law. And found guilty. And convicted and sentenced.

[Anonymous]

This is a tragic story, and there seems to be plenty of fault to go around. The man will probably be convicted of murder or manslaughter and based on just what I’ve read, I’d agree with that. The teenagers were out of control and brought this upon themselves though. And anyone saying they didn’t 100% cause this tragedy to take place by surrounding that man and taunting him and attacking him, is the reason Brock Turners and Brett Kavanaughs and the like exist in our world.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even though the 52 year old is reported to weigh 250 pounds, it is a pot-bellied, fairly flabby, out-of-shape 250 pounds.

Hopefully, there is audio tape to accompany the video tape. What if the group was shouting "child molester" at the man while he was being pushed back down into the water and, seemingly,not being allowed to leave ?

I keep wondering who really instigated and escalated and continued to escalate this encounter. Sure does not appear that the 17 year old and the others in their twenties were afraid or willing to walk away.

Reports issued *by the police* say that the video shows he had ample time to leave, and several windows of time to do so.

At what point did the man have an opportunity to leave ? Was he under any duty to leave ?

What a great question. According to a defense attorney who successfully represented a client who was fully acquitted of a self-defense stabbing, YES, he had a duty to leave:

"The most notable thing, in my opinion, is there are several references [in the criminal complaint] to 'route of egress,' or his ability to flee the situation," Nelson said.

According to the criminal complaint, video evidence "shows opportunity for Miu to leave the confrontation."

Nelson said Wisconsin essentially has a duty for someone to retreat, if possible, before using deadly force.

There is another detail that would hurt a self-defense claim.

A woman involved in the confrontation told police "what started the physical assault was Miu punched the woman."

"You can't claim self-defense if you're the first aggressor or you're engaged in unlawful conduct that provokes another to assault you," Nelson said.

That punch is apparently not caught on the bystander video, which is not publicly available.

Nelson predicts it will be a complicated trial.


https://www.kare11.com/article/news/crime/does-the-apple-river-stabbing-suspect-nick-miu-have-strong-self-defense-claim/89-616bef7d-f10e-442e-898e-0b239bb49b84

I dont understand laws that say you have to wait to be hit. Or wait til intruders on your porch enter your home. Angry groups are scary. So are threatening burglars.

Do you not get that those paragraphs are the WORDS OF A DEFENSE ATTORNEY from the news story linked below? Honey, *I* didn't say anything!

No one said you said anything . The poster was discussing the law and how she disagrees with it. She implied that she knows it’s the law

Welp, what are you gonna do, take it up with the lawmakers? He'll be tried under the current state law. And found guilty. And convicted and sentenced.

I was a new poster, just pointing out that you’re arguing against something that wasn’t ever said

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even though the 52 year old is reported to weigh 250 pounds, it is a pot-bellied, fairly flabby, out-of-shape 250 pounds.

Hopefully, there is audio tape to accompany the video tape. What if the group was shouting "child molester" at the man while he was being pushed back down into the water and, seemingly,not being allowed to leave ?

I keep wondering who really instigated and escalated and continued to escalate this encounter. Sure does not appear that the 17 year old and the others in their twenties were afraid or willing to walk away.

Reports issued *by the police* say that the video shows he had ample time to leave, and several windows of time to do so.

At what point did the man have an opportunity to leave ? Was he under any duty to leave ?

What a great question. According to a defense attorney who successfully represented a client who was fully acquitted of a self-defense stabbing, YES, he had a duty to leave:

"The most notable thing, in my opinion, is there are several references [in the criminal complaint] to 'route of egress,' or his ability to flee the situation," Nelson said.

According to the criminal complaint, video evidence "shows opportunity for Miu to leave the confrontation."

Nelson said Wisconsin essentially has a duty for someone to retreat, if possible, before using deadly force.

There is another detail that would hurt a self-defense claim.

A woman involved in the confrontation told police "what started the physical assault was Miu punched the woman."

"You can't claim self-defense if you're the first aggressor or you're engaged in unlawful conduct that provokes another to assault you," Nelson said.

That punch is apparently not caught on the bystander video, which is not publicly available.

Nelson predicts it will be a complicated trial.


https://www.kare11.com/article/news/crime/does-the-apple-river-stabbing-suspect-nick-miu-have-strong-self-defense-claim/89-616bef7d-f10e-442e-898e-0b239bb49b84

I dont understand laws that say you have to wait to be hit. Or wait til intruders on your porch enter your home. Angry groups are scary. So are threatening burglars.

Do you not get that those paragraphs are the WORDS OF A DEFENSE ATTORNEY from the news story linked below? Honey, *I* didn't say anything!

No one said you said anything . The poster was discussing the law and how she disagrees with it. She implied that she knows it’s the law

PP here. I don't know that it is the law, but I often hear those words or read them in the news. We don't own a gun, but I'm scared enough of crime and home invasions in our area to want a shotgun. For now, we have a big, loud barking lab. 🙂

[Anonymous]

Play stupid games and win stupid prizes. A group of teenaged dudes surround, attack, Yell at, push into the water, a 52 year old man who is acting weird? What did they think was going to happen? Where was THEIR duty to retreat , or is a group of white privileged teens allowed to just try to drown this older man without consequences?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Play stupid games and win stupid prizes. A group of teenaged dudes surround, attack, Yell at, push into the water, a 52 year old man who is acting weird? What did they think was going to happen? Where was THEIR duty to retreat , or is a group of white privileged teens allowed to just try to drown this older man without consequences?

Play stupid games and win stupid prizes: start engaging with another group, be the first to start physical attack (described by a witness outside of the original group), start stabbing people and gutting them, and you'll end up a murderer in jail. Congratulations on ruining your life, and your wife's life. Enjoy your prize! A guilty sentence and significant jail time!