What reasons WOULD you decide to leave/divorce over

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He could get intimate with his wife. Go into sex therapy, individual and couples counseling. Hormone balancing for wife if needed, help so she’s not over-stressed. He could focus all the time and energy he’s putting into having affairs into his marriage and time with his kids. He’s got 1 foot out the door. It is possible to bring back the passion. But, of course, a cheater will tell themselves all kinds of stories to justify their behavior.

His wife does not want to be intimate (otherwise they WOULD be intimate and he would NOT have an AP). If she wanted therapy they would already be going. If she wanted to "balance her hormones" she would have done that. He does NOT have 1 foot out the door: he is working hard to save their marriage. She doesn't want sex, she should be grateful that his AP is saving her marriage (doing what she does not want to do). But of course, you will tell us that celibacy is not so bad.

Cheaters are masterful storytellers. And the person they're mostly telling stories to is themselves. They don't always realize it. In fact, part of coming clean after infidelity is recognizing the stories they've told themselves. Stories like, "nobody appreciates me", or "I work so hard and get nothing in return" or even vague, amorphous stories about how life/work/family just isn't what they thought it would be. And so when someone shows up and pays attention to these guys, listens to their stories, it's intoxicating. They want it to continue. It can feel like a drug. Besides, they tell themselves another story, nobody needs to get hurt. ...but you're not doing good things... That's pretty much cold water on the "nobody gets hurt" story. Because people do get hurt. They are devastated. They are traumatized. Besides, Perel points out, even if nobody finds out ...you're not doing good things. So if you consider yourself a good guy but...you're not doing good things..., well, then, how do you square that circle? You don't. Not until your actions are aligned with your declared values.

Cheating to save the marriage is the biggest delusion out there. Self delusion to justify their actions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He could get intimate with his wife. Go into sex therapy, individual and couples counseling. Hormone balancing for wife if needed, help so she’s not over-stressed. He could focus all the time and energy he’s putting into having affairs into his marriage and time with his kids. He’s got 1 foot out the door. It is possible to bring back the passion. But, of course, a cheater will tell themselves all kinds of stories to justify their behavior.

His wife does not want to be intimate (otherwise they WOULD be intimate and he would NOT have an AP). If she wanted therapy they would already be going. If she wanted to "balance her hormones" she would have done that. He does NOT have 1 foot out the door: he is working hard to save their marriage. She doesn't want sex, she should be grateful that his AP is saving her marriage (doing what she does not want to do). But of course, you will tell us that celibacy is not so bad.

Cheaters are masterful storytellers. And the person they're mostly telling stories to is themselves. They don't always realize it. In fact, part of coming clean after infidelity is recognizing the stories they've told themselves. Stories like, "nobody appreciates me", or "I work so hard and get nothing in return" or even vague, amorphous stories about how life/work/family just isn't what they thought it would be. And so when someone shows up and pays attention to these guys, listens to their stories, it's intoxicating. They want it to continue. It can feel like a drug. Besides, they tell themselves another story, nobody needs to get hurt. ...but you're not doing good things... That's pretty much cold water on the "nobody gets hurt" story. Because people do get hurt. They are devastated. They are traumatized. Besides, Perel points out, even if nobody finds out ...you're not doing good things. So if you consider yourself a good guy but...you're not doing good things..., well, then, how do you square that circle? You don't. Not until your actions are aligned with your declared values.

Hmm, story telling...so you think all these men are being dishonest when they say their wives don't want sex?

[Anonymous]

To the PP, about 1/3 of women lose sexual desire at some point so of course many men are telling the truth their wives won't sleep with them or do so only reluctantly. And 20% of marriages are sexless.

https://www.webmd.com/sex-relationships/features/loss-of-sexual-desire-in-women#1

Some men lie about this, some tell the truth, and every poster on this topic has incentive to push the narrative to whatever makes them the victim.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He could get intimate with his wife. Go into sex therapy, individual and couples counseling. Hormone balancing for wife if needed, help so she’s not over-stressed. He could focus all the time and energy he’s putting into having affairs into his marriage and time with his kids. He’s got 1 foot out the door. It is possible to bring back the passion. But, of course, a cheater will tell themselves all kinds of stories to justify their behavior.

His wife does not want to be intimate (otherwise they WOULD be intimate and he would NOT have an AP). If she wanted therapy they would already be going. If she wanted to "balance her hormones" she would have done that. He does NOT have 1 foot out the door: he is working hard to save their marriage. She doesn't want sex, she should be grateful that his AP is saving her marriage (doing what she does not want to do). But of course, you will tell us that celibacy is not so bad.

Cheaters are masterful storytellers. And the person they're mostly telling stories to is themselves. They don't always realize it. In fact, part of coming clean after infidelity is recognizing the stories they've told themselves. Stories like, "nobody appreciates me", or "I work so hard and get nothing in return" or even vague, amorphous stories about how life/work/family just isn't what they thought it would be. And so when someone shows up and pays attention to these guys, listens to their stories, it's intoxicating. They want it to continue. It can feel like a drug. Besides, they tell themselves another story, nobody needs to get hurt. ...but you're not doing good things... That's pretty much cold water on the "nobody gets hurt" story. Because people do get hurt. They are devastated. They are traumatized. Besides, Perel points out, even if nobody finds out ...you're not doing good things. So if you consider yourself a good guy but...you're not doing good things..., well, then, how do you square that circle? You don't. Not until your actions are aligned with your declared values.

Hmm, story telling...so you think all these men are being dishonest when they say their wives don't want sex?

Mine outright told his married AP we were still having great sex when she asked. She was none to pleased because she was looking for an exit for herself. He is highly sexed. She was shocked to hear he was giving it to me 3-4 times per week and her only 1-2 times per month.

She lied to him about not wanting anything more than sex. He was honest upfront that he wasn’t looking to end his marriage, just looking for midlife excitement.

There are all kinds of cheaters out there that do it for all kinds of reasons. His was pure childhood trauma related narcissism. She fed his ego as an outsider telling him how wonderful he was...two immature stunted people from messed up childhoods.

I told him he could have her. He said he wouldn’t even consider dating her if he were single.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Other than cheating/affair/addiction.

Is there anything? I am finding after 2 kids and 11 years of marriage we are really 2 quite completely different people. He has never been my 'best friend' but has always been a friend with some common interests and someone I have loved.
However, this past year (preCOVID) has been rocky at best for me. We don't share similar future goals/experiences/hopes/dreams. We don't really share common interests anymore. Other than the kids I really can't think of anything I want or need to talk to him about.
He has been increasingly difficult to talk to because he thinks disagreeing with something requires a fight/argument. Even simple everyday things. I asked him if he could please turn on the dishwasher as i was heading out the door because i forgot to (i had just loaded it) and he proceeds to complain about having to stop work to do the dishes. I said to forget it i would do it when i get home and continued to go on and on. I left because i needed ot get to work and the kids to camps.

We had a big blow up a week ago about weather or not still take a family vacation to a tourist spot. I said I would rather err on the side of caution this time and postpone. He slammed his fists down and started screaming how "I just want to waste money". I said i think we should call to see if we can postpone or get a refund. If not we could discuss options. This wasn't good enough. He went on and on and on.
I have to say, something just clicked in me. I am just so over him and what our marriage has become. I just don't have it in me.
I work a stressful job at an outpatient clinic and just don't even want to go home most days.
Our kids are young (under 11) but I am just miserable and the thought of being with him for another 11 years makes me feel dead inside.

Get counseling.

I would divorce over the three "A's": abuse, adultery, addiction

“The three As?” Vast majority of marriages have one or more of those three occur at one point or another. Be realistic before you get married. Marriage is hard and understand what addiction actually means. Plenty of functional alcoholics in DC who also figure out a way to hold it together at home. Plenty of cheaters in this town too whose spouses either turn a blind eye, or also have an AP - and many of these homes are stable. Basically, I would leave if DH physically abused me.

People like you are the reason I stayed so long in an abusive relationship. I thought as long as he wasn't hitting me, I should stay. That is NOT true. Emotional and verbal abuse can destroy the abused partner. Infidelity as well.

People like me? You have no idea what my marriage is like and do not know me. I as well, have no idea what you went through but am very sorry you were in an abusive relationship.

To be more specific, I am referring when I say "People like you" to the poster immediately above me. What I took from that post and its tone (and perhaps I misread, but think not) is the idea, frequently promoted, that all or most marriages have abuse/infidelity or addition, and that posters who think they will not have to confront those issues are being "unrealistic" about marriage. That people who are alcoholics or adulterers do manage to stay with the spouse because they are "functional" or "hold it together at home" or the spouses "turn a blind eye" or "become cheaters" and you call those homes "stable". Then you say you would leave if your DH physically abused you -- and coming at the end of everything you wrote, that sounds like you are saying it is the only legitimate reason to end a marriage.

I believe you are promoting a very dangerous (especially to women) and unhealthy (to all, including the kids) idea about marriage -- that marriage is forever and only thing that should end it is if one person is physically abusing the other. Many people have a very high bar even for when physical abuse ends the marriage -- was it more than one time? did you try to get him into counseling? are you contributing to it?, etc.

Personally, I didn't leave my abuser until the second time he threatened to beat the crap out of me. Yes, that's right. Read that sentence and think about how crazy it is that I would stay with someone who even threatened to beat the crap out of me once. I have thought often about why I, a highly educated women with a strong sense of self esteem and a supportive family would have stayed with such a person. The answer comes down to the VERY strong culture of marriage and love that promotes the idea that we have "one" person that is our soulmate and that marriage is forever no matter what and that kids are permanently damaged by ending a marriage that has abuse, addiction or adultery more than they are damaged by staying in such a marriage. Add on top of that the prior to the first physical threat, I suffered through 6-7 years of verbal and emotional abuse. I recognize now that the verbal and emotional abuse -- coming after 3 very good years at the end of which we got engaged -- conditioned me and broke me down to normalize threats, even a threat of physical abuse.

It's not just the culture that supports that but also the legal system (for a long time prior to no-fault divorce) which allowed men to beat and rape their wives without criminalizing those acts as acts of assault or rape. In fact, the legal system today still does not really protect women who are victims of intimate partner physical abuse. Neither the culture nor the legal system protect women at all from verbal or physical abuse. I personally consider AOC's recent speech on the floor of the House to be the first public step in the culture confronting verbal abuse of women. Again, think how crazy that is.

So that is why I say people like you -- who promote the idea of marriage uber alles -- are the reason I (and other women) stay so long in abusive relationships.

It doesn't matter what your *marriage* is like. Maybe you have a great one, maybe not. What matters is the idea of marriage that you are promoting and the idea that women have an obligation to remain in relationships with perpetrators of abuse.

Your sorrow for the fact that I was in an abusive relationship is completely fake if you are at the same time promoting the idea that a marriage with an adulterer or functional alcoholic is "stable".

Thank you, PP. I am So proud of you for getting out and hope you are safe and happy now. I’m in a marriage that sounds similar to yours, before explicit threats. He once raised a fist at me in anger; that was two years ago and there has been no other physical threat but lots of unpredictable screaming rages. In between, he’s lots of people’s ideal husband: he cooks, he cleans, he does the dishes, he pays attention to the child, he brings me cups of tea while I’m working. It could be quiet for weeks and then BOOM, rage. All about politics, not something I have done in the relationship.

How did you get the courage to leave? How did you logistically do it? And how have you kept your kids safe since then? It really scares me how angry he will be, forever, when I become the enemy in his mind, and our child a weapon.

Please google about the circle of abuse -- you definitely have most components of it.

My relationship with my first abuser was long term -- we were engaged but never married. I was the foot-dragger. It was ugly separating from him, but I had a strong financial safety net, and an ace up my sleeve -- he was a lawyer and knew that I knew that if he actually hit me that would be the end of his legal career.

I got engaged a second time years later. For reasons I don't want to get into, we never married but had kids (again, my choice). That relationship was very good on the surface, but I found out about cheating and the situation unravelled in a way that was full of emotional abuse --gaslighting, manipulation, massive lies, etc.

All I can say is this: get a lawyer. Follow the lawyer's advice on logistics. Document everything and make sure there are agreements in writing. I kept my kids safe by breaking up and providing a sane, healthy home for 50% of their life. This is literally the key thing that helped them grow up normally. Living with an abuser to "protect" the kids isn't a rational strategy. Kids learn to accept what they see and live with. The main reason I ended up in two abusive relationships is that I grew up w/ a verbally abusive parent. That is literally the reason that mad me willing to walk away with nothing but my kids. I'm fortunate that I had enough savings and a network of friends and family that I knew I would never be homeless.

I have survived by minimizing contact as much as possible, being pleasant but pretty much grey rocking their dad. By the time we separated, they were both verbal and over age 5, so old enough to tell me if anything truly dangerous was happening.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sitting here alone, rejected by my wife again, sex 2x in 2020 and I have no idea what the point is of a celibate marriage.

So I am done. But she is a SAHM, 13 years now. Economy sucks, she needs a job. We are both stuck.

Of course, if I cheat, I'm am the bad guy, not her.

Thanks for the vent. I would swap places with the PP who at least got a romantic trip to France with hot sex. Better than a celibate guest room.

You owe it to your wife to find out what is wrong and help her. You sound like a total selfish jerk. You're not stuck- you're selfish. Selfish people can't have successful relationships, let alone marriages.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sitting here alone, rejected by my wife again, sex 2x in 2020 and I have no idea what the point is of a celibate marriage.

So I am done. But she is a SAHM, 13 years now. Economy sucks, she needs a job. We are both stuck.

Of course, if I cheat, I'm am the bad guy, not her.

Thanks for the vent. I would swap places with the PP who at least got a romantic trip to France with hot sex. Better than a celibate guest room.

You owe it to your wife to find out what is wrong and help her. You sound like a total selfish jerk. You're not stuck- you're selfish. Selfish people can't have successful relationships, let alone marriages.

And her role in solving it is?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sitting here alone, rejected by my wife again, sex 2x in 2020 and I have no idea what the point is of a celibate marriage.

So I am done. But she is a SAHM, 13 years now. Economy sucks, she needs a job. We are both stuck.

Of course, if I cheat, I'm am the bad guy, not her.

Thanks for the vent. I would swap places with the PP who at least got a romantic trip to France with hot sex. Better than a celibate guest room.

You owe it to your wife to find out what is wrong and help her. You sound like a total selfish jerk. You're not stuck- you're selfish. Selfish people can't have successful relationships, let alone marriages.

And her role in solving it is?

She gets to decide when he earns sex. That’s her role dummy!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sitting here alone, rejected by my wife again, sex 2x in 2020 and I have no idea what the point is of a celibate marriage.

So I am done. But she is a SAHM, 13 years now. Economy sucks, she needs a job. We are both stuck.

Of course, if I cheat, I'm am the bad guy, not her.

Thanks for the vent. I would swap places with the PP who at least got a romantic trip to France with hot sex. Better than a celibate guest room.

You owe it to your wife to find out what is wrong and help her. You sound like a total selfish jerk. You're not stuck- you're selfish. Selfish people can't have successful relationships, let alone marriages.

Exactly. His measure of a marriage is the times he has sex, lol! How about the kids, finances, health and you know....the actual important things that matter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He could get intimate with his wife. Go into sex therapy, individual and couples counseling. Hormone balancing for wife if needed, help so she’s not over-stressed. He could focus all the time and energy he’s putting into having affairs into his marriage and time with his kids. He’s got 1 foot out the door. It is possible to bring back the passion. But, of course, a cheater will tell themselves all kinds of stories to justify their behavior.

His wife does not want to be intimate (otherwise they WOULD be intimate and he would NOT have an AP). If she wanted therapy they would already be going. If she wanted to "balance her hormones" she would have done that. He does NOT have 1 foot out the door: he is working hard to save their marriage. She doesn't want sex, she should be grateful that his AP is saving her marriage (doing what she does not want to do). But of course, you will tell us that celibacy is not so bad.

Cheaters are masterful storytellers. And the person they're mostly telling stories to is themselves. They don't always realize it. In fact, part of coming clean after infidelity is recognizing the stories they've told themselves. Stories like, "nobody appreciates me", or "I work so hard and get nothing in return" or even vague, amorphous stories about how life/work/family just isn't what they thought it would be. And so when someone shows up and pays attention to these guys, listens to their stories, it's intoxicating. They want it to continue. It can feel like a drug. Besides, they tell themselves another story, nobody needs to get hurt. ...but you're not doing good things... That's pretty much cold water on the "nobody gets hurt" story. Because people do get hurt. They are devastated. They are traumatized. Besides, Perel points out, even if nobody finds out ...you're not doing good things. So if you consider yourself a good guy but...you're not doing good things..., well, then, how do you square that circle? You don't. Not until your actions are aligned with your declared values.

Hmm, story telling...so you think all these men are being dishonest when they say their wives don't want sex?

That's the vast majority of cases. Often with the AP women they want what the wife has because their lives stink. They start out acting independent and claim it's only a sex thing when secretly they want much more. One of my friends was getting hang up calls from the AP and other clues because she wanted their marriage to end. The DH only thought of AP as toilet paper like most married men in that situation. The few that leave their families for the AP more often than not break up.



Mine outright told his married AP we were still having great sex when she asked. She was none to pleased because she was looking for an exit for herself. He is highly sexed. She was shocked to hear he was giving it to me 3-4 times per week and her only 1-2 times per month.

She lied to him about not wanting anything more than sex. He was honest upfront that he wasn’t looking to end his marriage, just looking for midlife excitement.

There are all kinds of cheaters out there that do it for all kinds of reasons. His was pure childhood trauma related narcissism. She fed his ego as an outsider telling him how wonderful he was...two immature stunted people from messed up childhoods.

I told him he could have her. He said he wouldn’t even consider dating her if he were single.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He could get intimate with his wife. Go into sex therapy, individual and couples counseling. Hormone balancing for wife if needed, help so she’s not over-stressed. He could focus all the time and energy he’s putting into having affairs into his marriage and time with his kids. He’s got 1 foot out the door. It is possible to bring back the passion. But, of course, a cheater will tell themselves all kinds of stories to justify their behavior.

His wife does not want to be intimate (otherwise they WOULD be intimate and he would NOT have an AP). If she wanted therapy they would already be going. If she wanted to "balance her hormones" she would have done that. He does NOT have 1 foot out the door: he is working hard to save their marriage. She doesn't want sex, she should be grateful that his AP is saving her marriage (doing what she does not want to do). But of course, you will tell us that celibacy is not so bad.

Cheaters are masterful storytellers. And the person they're mostly telling stories to is themselves. They don't always realize it. In fact, part of coming clean after infidelity is recognizing the stories they've told themselves. Stories like, "nobody appreciates me", or "I work so hard and get nothing in return" or even vague, amorphous stories about how life/work/family just isn't what they thought it would be. And so when someone shows up and pays attention to these guys, listens to their stories, it's intoxicating. They want it to continue. It can feel like a drug. Besides, they tell themselves another story, nobody needs to get hurt. ...but you're not doing good things... That's pretty much cold water on the "nobody gets hurt" story. Because people do get hurt. They are devastated. They are traumatized. Besides, Perel points out, even if nobody finds out ...you're not doing good things. So if you consider yourself a good guy but...you're not doing good things..., well, then, how do you square that circle? You don't. Not until your actions are aligned with your declared values.

Hmm, story telling...so you think all these men are being dishonest when they say their wives don't want sex?

That's the vast majority of cases. Often with the AP women they want what the wife has because their lives stink. They start out acting independent and claim it's only a sex thing when secretly they want much more. One of my friends was getting hang up calls from the AP and other clues because she wanted their marriage to end. The DH only thought of AP as toilet paper like most married men in that situation. The few that leave their families for the AP more often than not break up.



Mine outright told his married AP we were still having great sex when she asked. She was none to pleased because she was looking for an exit for herself. He is highly sexed. She was shocked to hear he was giving it to me 3-4 times per week and her only 1-2 times per month.

She lied to him about not wanting anything more than sex. He was honest upfront that he wasn’t looking to end his marriage, just looking for midlife excitement.

There are all kinds of cheaters out there that do it for all kinds of reasons. His was pure childhood trauma related narcissism. She fed his ego as an outsider telling him how wonderful he was...two immature stunted people from messed up childhoods.

I told him he could have her. He said he wouldn’t even consider dating her if he were single.

Your comments were embedded so I am reposting them:

"That's the vast majority of cases. Often with the AP women they want what the wife has because their lives stink. They start out acting independent and claim it's only a sex thing when secretly they want much more. One of my friends was getting hang up calls from the AP and other clues because she wanted their marriage to end. The DH only thought of AP as toilet paper like most married men in that situation. The few that leave their families for the AP more often than not break up."

I 100% concur.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He could get intimate with his wife. Go into sex therapy, individual and couples counseling. Hormone balancing for wife if needed, help so she’s not over-stressed. He could focus all the time and energy he’s putting into having affairs into his marriage and time with his kids. He’s got 1 foot out the door. It is possible to bring back the passion. But, of course, a cheater will tell themselves all kinds of stories to justify their behavior.

His wife does not want to be intimate (otherwise they WOULD be intimate and he would NOT have an AP). If she wanted therapy they would already be going. If she wanted to "balance her hormones" she would have done that. He does NOT have 1 foot out the door: he is working hard to save their marriage. She doesn't want sex, she should be grateful that his AP is saving her marriage (doing what she does not want to do). But of course, you will tell us that celibacy is not so bad.

Cheaters are masterful storytellers. And the person they're mostly telling stories to is themselves. They don't always realize it. In fact, part of coming clean after infidelity is recognizing the stories they've told themselves. Stories like, "nobody appreciates me", or "I work so hard and get nothing in return" or even vague, amorphous stories about how life/work/family just isn't what they thought it would be. And so when someone shows up and pays attention to these guys, listens to their stories, it's intoxicating. They want it to continue. It can feel like a drug. Besides, they tell themselves another story, nobody needs to get hurt. ...but you're not doing good things... That's pretty much cold water on the "nobody gets hurt" story. Because people do get hurt. They are devastated. They are traumatized. Besides, Perel points out, even if nobody finds out ...you're not doing good things. So if you consider yourself a good guy but...you're not doing good things..., well, then, how do you square that circle? You don't. Not until your actions are aligned with your declared values.

Hmm, story telling...so you think all these men are being dishonest when they say their wives don't want sex?

That's the vast majority of cases. Often with the AP women they want what the wife has because their lives stink. They start out acting independent and claim it's only a sex thing when secretly they want much more. One of my friends was getting hang up calls from the AP and other clues because she wanted their marriage to end. The DH only thought of AP as toilet paper like most married men in that situation. The few that leave their families for the AP more often than not break up.



Mine outright told his married AP we were still having great sex when she asked. She was none to pleased because she was looking for an exit for herself. He is highly sexed. She was shocked to hear he was giving it to me 3-4 times per week and her only 1-2 times per month.

She lied to him about not wanting anything more than sex. He was honest upfront that he wasn’t looking to end his marriage, just looking for midlife excitement.

There are all kinds of cheaters out there that do it for all kinds of reasons. His was pure childhood trauma related narcissism. She fed his ego as an outsider telling him how wonderful he was...two immature stunted people from messed up childhoods.

I told him he could have her. He said he wouldn’t even consider dating her if he were single.

Your comments were embedded so I am reposting them:

"That's the vast majority of cases. Often with the AP women they want what the wife has because their lives stink. They start out acting independent and claim it's only a sex thing when secretly they want much more. One of my friends was getting hang up calls from the AP and other clues because she wanted their marriage to end. The DH only thought of AP as toilet paper like most married men in that situation. The few that leave their families for the AP more often than not break up."

I 100% concur.

The person someone cheats with tends not to be as attractive, interesting, engaging, etc. as the primary partner who is being cheated on.

Rick Reynolds, LCSW says…

“I have never seen a situation where I felt an individual “affaired up”- meaning that they end up with a better person. It may seem like a better decision at the time, but it will prove it to be a step down.”

If nothing else, it will be a step down in terms of maturity, character, integrity, intelligence, loyalty, spirituality, sincerity, etc.

The reasons for why a person “affairs down” are potentially limitless, but the one noticed most often seems to be that the affair partner made the cheater feel good while stroking his/her ego so much that it didn’t matter what he/she looked like or how his/her character was.

Basically, the wayward spouse is needy and looking for someone to boost his/her ego and winds up looking for someone beneath him/her.

This person will make the cheater feel superior, if only temporarily. The easiest women to pick up are "unhappily married women". You aren't getting the cream of the crop there.

“People have affairs even when they have a good sex life and feel connected to their partners,” she says. While she in no way recommends infidelity, when it does happen, Esther Perel views it as an opportunity to “look under the hood” to see how the straying partner needs to change and dig into how the couple interacts in order to strengthen the relationship moving forward.

[Anonymous]

Trying to murder someone indirectly.

Stalking someone you know or don’t really know.

Compulsive lying and or cheating.

If you are the spouse of this kind of person, that is doing one of these things, you should be consulting a divorce attorney.

Your shit will come around if you stay with human garbage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Other than cheating/affair/addiction.

Is there anything? I am finding after 2 kids and 11 years of marriage we are really 2 quite completely different people. He has never been my 'best friend' but has always been a friend with some common interests and someone I have loved.
However, this past year (preCOVID) has been rocky at best for me. We don't share similar future goals/experiences/hopes/dreams. We don't really share common interests anymore. Other than the kids I really can't think of anything I want or need to talk to him about.
He has been increasingly difficult to talk to because he thinks disagreeing with something requires a fight/argument. Even simple everyday things. I asked him if he could please turn on the dishwasher as i was heading out the door because i forgot to (i had just loaded it) and he proceeds to complain about having to stop work to do the dishes. I said to forget it i would do it when i get home and continued to go on and on. I left because i needed ot get to work and the kids to camps.

We had a big blow up a week ago about weather or not still take a family vacation to a tourist spot. I said I would rather err on the side of caution this time and postpone. He slammed his fists down and started screaming how "I just want to waste money". I said i think we should call to see if we can postpone or get a refund. If not we could discuss options. This wasn't good enough. He went on and on and on.
I have to say, something just clicked in me. I am just so over him and what our marriage has become. I just don't have it in me.
I work a stressful job at an outpatient clinic and just don't even want to go home most days.
Our kids are young (under 11) but I am just miserable and the thought of being with him for another 11 years makes me feel dead inside.

Get counseling.

I would divorce over the three "A's": abuse, adultery, addiction

“The three As?” Vast majority of marriages have one or more of those three occur at one point or another. Be realistic before you get married. Marriage is hard and understand what addiction actually means. Plenty of functional alcoholics in DC who also figure out a way to hold it together at home. Plenty of cheaters in this town too whose spouses either turn a blind eye, or also have an AP - and many of these homes are stable. Basically, I would leave if DH physically abused me.

People like you are the reason I stayed so long in an abusive relationship. I thought as long as he wasn't hitting me, I should stay. That is NOT true. Emotional and verbal abuse can destroy the abused partner. Infidelity as well.

People like me? You have no idea what my marriage is like and do not know me. I as well, have no idea what you went through but am very sorry you were in an abusive relationship.

To be more specific, I am referring when I say "People like you" to the poster immediately above me. What I took from that post and its tone (and perhaps I misread, but think not) is the idea, frequently promoted, that all or most marriages have abuse/infidelity or addition, and that posters who think they will not have to confront those issues are being "unrealistic" about marriage. That people who are alcoholics or adulterers do manage to stay with the spouse because they are "functional" or "hold it together at home" or the spouses "turn a blind eye" or "become cheaters" and you call those homes "stable". Then you say you would leave if your DH physically abused you -- and coming at the end of everything you wrote, that sounds like you are saying it is the only legitimate reason to end a marriage.

I believe you are promoting a very dangerous (especially to women) and unhealthy (to all, including the kids) idea about marriage -- that marriage is forever and only thing that should end it is if one person is physically abusing the other. Many people have a very high bar even for when physical abuse ends the marriage -- was it more than one time? did you try to get him into counseling? are you contributing to it?, etc.

Personally, I didn't leave my abuser until the second time he threatened to beat the crap out of me. Yes, that's right. Read that sentence and think about how crazy it is that I would stay with someone who even threatened to beat the crap out of me once. I have thought often about why I, a highly educated women with a strong sense of self esteem and a supportive family would have stayed with such a person. The answer comes down to the VERY strong culture of marriage and love that promotes the idea that we have "one" person that is our soulmate and that marriage is forever no matter what and that kids are permanently damaged by ending a marriage that has abuse, addiction or adultery more than they are damaged by staying in such a marriage. Add on top of that the prior to the first physical threat, I suffered through 6-7 years of verbal and emotional abuse. I recognize now that the verbal and emotional abuse -- coming after 3 very good years at the end of which we got engaged -- conditioned me and broke me down to normalize threats, even a threat of physical abuse.

It's not just the culture that supports that but also the legal system (for a long time prior to no-fault divorce) which allowed men to beat and rape their wives without criminalizing those acts as acts of assault or rape. In fact, the legal system today still does not really protect women who are victims of intimate partner physical abuse. Neither the culture nor the legal system protect women at all from verbal or physical abuse. I personally consider AOC's recent speech on the floor of the House to be the first public step in the culture confronting verbal abuse of women. Again, think how crazy that is.

So that is why I say people like you -- who promote the idea of marriage uber alles -- are the reason I (and other women) stay so long in abusive relationships.

It doesn't matter what your *marriage* is like. Maybe you have a great one, maybe not. What matters is the idea of marriage that you are promoting and the idea that women have an obligation to remain in relationships with perpetrators of abuse.

Your sorrow for the fact that I was in an abusive relationship is completely fake if you are at the same time promoting the idea that a marriage with an adulterer or functional alcoholic is "stable".

Thanks for sharing your experience and thoughts. Very well written and explained. I agree with you without having the sophisticated language to articulate it, but you are correct. I am sorry to hear about your former spouses behavior and impressed at your wherewithal. I’d like my daughters to be like you- confident and know what do when they are unsafe or uncomfortable.

Are you a social scientist or human rights advocate or other type of expert in this area? Thanks again. I have learned from your writing.

[Anonymous]

Is a sexless marriage a reason to leave? Anyone left a decent marriage when sex was down to 1x a month and no regrets?