Moms trying to orchestrate their kids social standing

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I rarely attend any mom group activities due to my work schedule, but this week I was able to join a parents meet and great and play group for all of my sons first grade classmates (there are 5 1st grade classes at his school). While all the kids were happily playing, a group of moms went over all of the class list and had been discussing who all the popular kids are in each class. Then they all went on to figure out how they could all get these kids to play with their kids. Is this a total anomaly? This is first grade, not HS. I’m not really involved in my sons social life, since he’s perfectly happy playing with a few friends from K and the kids on the block. None of this behavior would have ever occurred to me. Frankly, I think it’s pretty pathetic and it makes me sad that parents are passing on this mindset so early to their children.

What town is this from?

In Illinois

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Does it work for these moms trying to force friendships for their kids? Even when I get my kids to play with my friends and relatives kids, it doesn’t always work.

PP and I see it begin in elementary schools and continue through high school. Moms try to befriend the kids and moms as a package deal. True social climbing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP in AAP community back to add, beware the term "popular."

The true jockeying for independent social standing with the goal of popularity begins with the girls late fifth grade, cementing in sixth. Not unusual to experience Mean Girl, cliqueish behavior in 1st, 2nd grades.

Girls are encouraged to be "boy crazy." By their moms, of course. Played out in school, in social media, by the girls. Relentless flirting and pursuit of equally popular boys. Suddenly, if you are not as boy crazy as the popular girls, you're out. Make up, dressing and talking like a teenage girl is tried out well before MS sometimes w these girls.

Popular MSers aren't the class leaders, the academic superstars, the best all-around types. No. By MS, popular = participating in or having the opportunity to participate in sex, drinking and drug experimentation. You might not actually drink or even have a boyfriend/girlfriend, but your cool friends (or their siblings or their parents) sure do.

I used to be mildly concerned and a bit sad to hear eldest DD lament her lack of popularity and her constant disdain for the "popular" crowd. She had a grueling experience all through high school and couldn't wait to leave for college.

Coworkers kid pulled her MCPS MS student out in 2 weeks time for catholic school. she had come home sad but helpless. she was on the No BJ List and thus was "unpopular."
They had moved there one year before from Chicago. Only child. She returned to public for HS a couple years later due to her friends in vball, but MS sounded pathetic, socially.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP in AAP community back to add, beware the term "popular."

The true jockeying for independent social standing with the goal of popularity begins with the girls late fifth grade, cementing in sixth. Not unusual to experience Mean Girl, cliqueish behavior in 1st, 2nd grades.

Girls are encouraged to be "boy crazy." By their moms, of course. Played out in school, in social media, by the girls. Relentless flirting and pursuit of equally popular boys. Suddenly, if you are not as boy crazy as the popular girls, you're out. Make up, dressing and talking like a teenage girl is tried out well before MS sometimes w these girls.

Popular MSers aren't the class leaders, the academic superstars, the best all-around types. No. By MS, popular = participating in or having the opportunity to participate in sex, drinking and drug experimentation. You might not actually drink or even have a boyfriend/girlfriend, but your cool friends (or their siblings or their parents) sure do.

I used to be mildly concerned and a bit sad to hear eldest DD lament her lack of popularity and her constant disdain for the "popular" crowd. She had a grueling experience all through high school and couldn't wait to leave for college.

This isn't a sufficiently nuanced perspective and is the perspective of a parent, not someone who is a teacher or administrator of a middle school. In general middle school kids experience popularity in multiple different ways. One type is indeed what PP describes above, the "faster" crowd for lack of a better word, but that's not close to all the kids who are considered popular. There are also the kids who successfully transcend groups by virtue of their interests and who become very popular as a result: the athlete who is also in honors classes, the drama kid who also befriends the robotics kids, etc. Usually these kids have admirable social skills and work ethics, and despite the desperate wishes of a lot of DCUM parents, generally go on to do very well. There are also then the kind/funny kids who are popular because they are universally kind to everyone, and can also diffuse situations with humor. These ones get invited to a lot of social events and asked to join various groups. Basically there are a lot of different ways for kids to be popular. Some are problematic, but some are what you'd want to encourage. It's simply not true that popularity is always a negative marker.

Similarly the opposite is true. Lack of popularity doesn't mean a child is a better person. The days of nerds being seen as the nice guys and girls and also just the victims of bullying are long over. Your member of the science club can also be trying to humiliate kids who do not learn as fast, your math nerd daughter is indeed capable of vicious mean girl behavior. Experienced teachers know that the quirky and nerd kids are just as likely to bully and be cruel. It's often the parents of these kids who are the most in denial, though. Sometimeswhen they get called in because their kids are nasty, the flat out response is that Larla couldn't have done anything because Larla is quirky and quiet or Larlo isn't popular.

maybe in the 1990s. try again for 2018.

[Anonymous]

Can't they please euthanize this thread : (

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Where are you posting from op? TX, FL, or CA?

Very affluent area in IL

Wannabe northshore town that doesn’t actually touch the lake or Highland Park? If this is HP, I would move. You’re going to see a lot more of this.

Hate this area. Counting down the days til I’m outta here!

I knew it! Try Evanston!

This is just a temp living situation. Off to a different coast soon. How do people survive this attitude here? As a gross generalization, the women are petty and shallow and the men are kind of swarthy.

HP is gross. I would never be able to do it, although I taught there for 10 years. An entitled and demanding population. Girls in low elementary grades wearing Butter sweatshirts, Spiritual Gangsta tanks, and Iviva pants. Bourgeoisie to the max. Some lovely people but so many shallow strivers. Glad I am outta there.

Wow. I’m so out of it, I have no clue about any of these brands.

lol..me too..I had to google them all

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Where are you posting from op? TX, FL, or CA?

Very affluent area in IL

Wannabe northshore town that doesn’t actually touch the lake or Highland Park? If this is HP, I would move. You’re going to see a lot more of this.

Hate this area. Counting down the days til I’m outta here!

I knew it! Try Evanston!

This is just a temp living situation. Off to a different coast soon. How do people survive this attitude here? As a gross generalization, the women are petty and shallow and the men are kind of swarthy.

HP is gross. I would never be able to do it, although I taught there for 10 years. An entitled and demanding population. Girls in low elementary grades wearing Butter sweatshirts, Spiritual Gangsta tanks, and Iviva pants. Bourgeoisie to the max. Some lovely people but so many shallow strivers. Glad I am outta there.

Wow. I’m so out of it, I have no clue about any of these brands.

lol..me too..I had to google them all

Hmm, I'd been eyeing a Butter hoodie for my daughter--the design was cute, and I've been waiting for it to go on sale. I'd never before heard of this brand. Had no idea this was a preferred line for some brand-conscious families!

I've heard of Spiritual Gangsta before but thought the name was silly; never heard of Iviva.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP in AAP community back to add, beware the term "popular."

The true jockeying for independent social standing with the goal of popularity begins with the girls late fifth grade, cementing in sixth. Not unusual to experience Mean Girl, cliqueish behavior in 1st, 2nd grades.

Girls are encouraged to be "boy crazy." By their moms, of course. Played out in school, in social media, by the girls. Relentless flirting and pursuit of equally popular boys. Suddenly, if you are not as boy crazy as the popular girls, you're out. Make up, dressing and talking like a teenage girl is tried out well before MS sometimes w these girls.

Popular MSers aren't the class leaders, the academic superstars, the best all-around types. No. By MS, popular = participating in or having the opportunity to participate in sex, drinking and drug experimentation. You might not actually drink or even have a boyfriend/girlfriend, but your cool friends (or their siblings or their parents) sure do.

I used to be mildly concerned and a bit sad to hear eldest DD lament her lack of popularity and her constant disdain for the "popular" crowd. She had a grueling experience all through high school and couldn't wait to leave for college.

This isn't a sufficiently nuanced perspective and is the perspective of a parent, not someone who is a teacher or administrator of a middle school. In general middle school kids experience popularity in multiple different ways. One type is indeed what PP describes above, the "faster" crowd for lack of a better word, but that's not close to all the kids who are considered popular. There are also the kids who successfully transcend groups by virtue of their interests and who become very popular as a result: the athlete who is also in honors classes, the drama kid who also befriends the robotics kids, etc. Usually these kids have admirable social skills and work ethics, and despite the desperate wishes of a lot of DCUM parents, generally go on to do very well. There are also then the kind/funny kids who are popular because they are universally kind to everyone, and can also diffuse situations with humor. These ones get invited to a lot of social events and asked to join various groups. Basically there are a lot of different ways for kids to be popular. Some are problematic, but some are what you'd want to encourage. It's simply not true that popularity is always a negative marker.

Similarly the opposite is true. Lack of popularity doesn't mean a child is a better person. The days of nerds being seen as the nice guys and girls and also just the victims of bullying are long over. Your member of the science club can also be trying to humiliate kids who do not learn as fast, your math nerd daughter is indeed capable of vicious mean girl behavior. Experienced teachers know that the quirky and nerd kids are just as likely to bully and be cruel. It's often the parents of these kids who are the most in denial, though. Sometimeswhen they get called in because their kids are nasty, the flat out response is that Larla couldn't have done anything because Larla is quirky and quiet or Larlo isn't popular.

This post makes me sad. It rings true with what I remember - that my middle school teachers were complicit with the social hierarchy at school. Popular kids are popular because they have charisma and social charms, and teachers, like kids, gravitate towards them and away from the hyper self-conscious, socially annoying, often humorless, awkward kids, not all of whom are smart and some of whom aren't particularly nice. Certainly there are popular kids in honors classes who make good grades who aren't part of the fast crowd. But they aren't any nicer to the unpopular kids. Why would they be. These kids are annoying and a little gross. A middle school must do a LOT of work to foster a social atmosphere of inclusiveness that puts a premium on EVERYBODY being accepted and valued. Few if any middle schools do. But at the elementary school level, when 90% of the kids are annoying and obnoxious, this shouldn’t be an issue at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I see that happen alot. Some moms make special effort to doing that. Hang around and chat with everyone. Initiate immediately if they find out who the kid is or that their kid is the similar age. I don't get into that. However, my DH!! He feels left out when he sees everyone grouped together and our kids is left out-that also means we are left out. Also because I refuse to be sucked into that. If our son wants to play with them, then I might make an effort to engage myself. But it's not my world-the majority seem too group for me.

Eh, this doesn't seem like what OP or others are talking about. Nothing wrong with building community and talking with people who in most cases live in your neighborhood. I personally want to know my kids' friends' families. That's hard to do when the kids are in middle school. But you better bet I try to get to know as many parents as possible in early elementary. Not with any intent except to know more people in my community.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP in AAP community back to add, beware the term "popular."

The true jockeying for independent social standing with the goal of popularity begins with the girls late fifth grade, cementing in sixth. Not unusual to experience Mean Girl, cliqueish behavior in 1st, 2nd grades.

Girls are encouraged to be "boy crazy." By their moms, of course. Played out in school, in social media, by the girls. Relentless flirting and pursuit of equally popular boys. Suddenly, if you are not as boy crazy as the popular girls, you're out. Make up, dressing and talking like a teenage girl is tried out well before MS sometimes w these girls.

Popular MSers aren't the class leaders, the academic superstars, the best all-around types. No. By MS, popular = participating in or having the opportunity to participate in sex, drinking and drug experimentation. You might not actually drink or even have a boyfriend/girlfriend, but your cool friends (or their siblings or their parents) sure do.

I used to be mildly concerned and a bit sad to hear eldest DD lament her lack of popularity and her constant disdain for the "popular" crowd. She had a grueling experience all through high school and couldn't wait to leave for college.

This isn't a sufficiently nuanced perspective and is the perspective of a parent, not someone who is a teacher or administrator of a middle school. In general middle school kids experience popularity in multiple different ways. One type is indeed what PP describes above, the "faster" crowd for lack of a better word, but that's not close to all the kids who are considered popular. There are also the kids who successfully transcend groups by virtue of their interests and who become very popular as a result: the athlete who is also in honors classes, the drama kid who also befriends the robotics kids, etc. Usually these kids have admirable social skills and work ethics, and despite the desperate wishes of a lot of DCUM parents, generally go on to do very well. There are also then the kind/funny kids who are popular because they are universally kind to everyone, and can also diffuse situations with humor. These ones get invited to a lot of social events and asked to join various groups. Basically there are a lot of different ways for kids to be popular. Some are problematic, but some are what you'd want to encourage. It's simply not true that popularity is always a negative marker.

Similarly the opposite is true. Lack of popularity doesn't mean a child is a better person. The days of nerds being seen as the nice guys and girls and also just the victims of bullying are long over. Your member of the science club can also be trying to humiliate kids who do not learn as fast, your math nerd daughter is indeed capable of vicious mean girl behavior. Experienced teachers know that the quirky and nerd kids are just as likely to bully and be cruel. It's often the parents of these kids who are the most in denial, though. Sometimeswhen they get called in because their kids are nasty, the flat out response is that Larla couldn't have done anything because Larla is quirky and quiet or Larlo isn't popular.

This post makes me sad. It rings true with what I remember - that my middle school teachers were complicit with the social hierarchy at school. Popular kids are popular because they have charisma and social charms, and teachers, like kids, gravitate towards them and away from the hyper self-conscious, socially annoying, often humorless, awkward kids, not all of whom are smart and some of whom aren't particularly nice. Certainly there are popular kids in honors classes who make good grades who aren't part of the fast crowd. But they aren't any nicer to the unpopular kids. Why would they be. These kids are annoying and a little gross. A middle school must do a LOT of work to foster a social atmosphere of inclusiveness that puts a premium on EVERYBODY being accepted and valued. Few if any middle schools do. But at the elementary school level, when 90% of the kids are annoying and obnoxious, this shouldn’t be an issue at all.

Hm. You seem to be implying that middle school teachers should ignore bullying and antisocial behaviors from the kids who aren't popular? It seems to me like you're saying that bullying and not nice behaviors from the unpopular kids should be excused in the interest of inclusion? Could you explain further?

I agree that all kids should be accepted and valued. But assuming all popular kids are automatically engaging in risk-taking and sexual behaviors (which is what the original PP did) does not seem to be a very thoughtful approach.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

This isn't a sufficiently nuanced perspective and is the perspective of a parent, not someone who is a teacher or administrator of a middle school.

PP quoted and I wrote from the heart both as a parent and my direct experience with elementary, middle and high schoolers. Your assumptions about me are inaccurate and your conclusions naive.

Okay, then, tell me precisely what was inaccurate about what I wrote, like I did for you. I suspect you can't because you carry around a movie-model of middle school that doesn't mirror real life, and I suspect your "direct experience" with tweens and teens is that your own children occasionally had friends over. You do not write like someone who professionally works with teens day in and day out. But I will give you a chance. What, exactly, was incorrect about what I wrote? The fact you didn't bother with the substance of my post -- I suspect because you can't -- tells me that you don't like the fact that people with real boots on the ground in middle schools would roll their eyes at your 80s movie description of the middle school world.

In my view, the ones who are naive are the DCUM parents who think that because their child isn't "popular" the child isn't capable of destructive behaviors. You think your unpopular child isn't bullying, isn't experimenting with sexual behaviors? That's only a "popular" kid thing? You are just blind.

-------------------------------------------------------
and I suspect your "direct experience" with tweens and teens is that your own children occasionally had friends over.

You are incorrect. My tweens and teens more than occasionally had and have friends over. Hadn't even considered that as part of my experience, so let's add that, too. And, to be honest our children's friends often need to pack a bag. We've had several spend vacations home and away with us. I've done before and after school care for friends in need for entire school years. I've taught. I've tutored. I've substituted. It may surprise you to know that I'm working in a middle school this year, part time. I think I have a pretty good, current perspective. I was simply trying to convey per OP that mothers (and it's always mothers) who attempt to micromanage or socially engineer a child's "popularity" are heading down a dangerous road. Be careful what you wish for in the truest sense of the phrase.

Yes, I know and am acutely aware that even the "quirky" (and I detest that word) kids get into trouble, popularity is fleeting and being popular can be, doesn't always mean something negative, but that parents need to understand. It's not as simple as it once was. It's okay not be be popular if the peer group deemed such is into things that would alarm you. That's all.

Parents are in denial, too. Thanks for the reminder that just because your kid is painfully shy or academically focused or has never had a behavior problem, that you can be assured that he/she can do no wrong. Parents need to make the effort to supervise, discipline, set boundaries and expectations and for heavens sake, just talk to your children even as and especially when they are preteens. I absolutely love working with middle schoolers and my colleagues do, too. You have to be an amazingly patient and understanding and reasonable person to willingly serve this population. There's a reason 6/7/8 graders get separated into their own schools until they mature enough for high school.

You do not write like someone who professionally works with teens day in and day out.

Why, thank you! I suppose teenagers erode writing skills? They are tiring, no doubt. I like being the adult in the room.

Should I instead write like the teenagers I know then okay I guess I can LOL but anyway if you don't believe me congradulations I just wanted to tell you what's going on with me like everyday I am just so tired because I have to like get up at like 5 and I have to like get out of my car and like run through the car line but most of the parents don't know I work there? and I so I have to like wave my arms at them so they let me go by? I know right? I'm not waving to say hi I'm waving so I don't get run over by a crazy mom driving.

I don't think we actually disagree, then. And thanks for your work with kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Coworkers kid pulled her MCPS MS student out in 2 weeks time for catholic school. she had come home sad but helpless. she was on the No BJ List and thus was "unpopular."
They had moved there one year before from Chicago. Only child. She returned to public for HS a couple years later due to her friends in vball, but MS sounded pathetic, socially.

What the heck is the "No BJ List"? Normally, I would think blue jeans, but that makes no sense -- at least not to me!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP in AAP community back to add, beware the term "popular."

The true jockeying for independent social standing with the goal of popularity begins with the girls late fifth grade, cementing in sixth. Not unusual to experience Mean Girl, cliqueish behavior in 1st, 2nd grades.

Girls are encouraged to be "boy crazy." By their moms, of course. Played out in school, in social media, by the girls. Relentless flirting and pursuit of equally popular boys. Suddenly, if you are not as boy crazy as the popular girls, you're out. Make up, dressing and talking like a teenage girl is tried out well before MS sometimes w these girls.

Popular MSers aren't the class leaders, the academic superstars, the best all-around types. No. By MS, popular = participating in or having the opportunity to participate in sex, drinking and drug experimentation. You might not actually drink or even have a boyfriend/girlfriend, but your cool friends (or their siblings or their parents) sure do.

I used to be mildly concerned and a bit sad to hear eldest DD lament her lack of popularity and her constant disdain for the "popular" crowd. She had a grueling experience all through high school and couldn't wait to leave for college.

Coworkers kid pulled her MCPS MS student out in 2 weeks time for catholic school. she had come home sad but helpless. she was on the No BJ List and thus was "unpopular."
They had moved there one year before from Chicago. Only child. She returned to public for HS a couple years later due to her friends in vball, but MS sounded pathetic, socially.

Which MCPS MS?

[Anonymous]

I have middle and high school kids and only check this board for amusement and this one sure does deliver! There absolutely are those moms in elementary school. These moms have aboslulty no life outside of their children. They are pathetic. However the kids find their own friends as they get older. There was a mom click in my middle schooler's classes and the "head" mom was also the PTA president. That click of boys is now called the drive-thru's. This is because the other kids say that they will be working the drive thru one day. This click of boys are absolute losers. They are not nice, not smart, and not socially aware at all. Those moms would have done their kids more benefit by focusing on academics over an astro-turf social life. In these days, the smart kids are the popular ones. Combine that with athletics and grace, and that is what makes a very popular kid.