Circumcision/Judaism

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If my religious tradition required inflicting pain on an infant for no medical benefit, I would rethink my religion.

+1

How does this occur to so few people?

-1 Don't worry. You aren't the only one who thinks negatively about Judaism. Hitler shared your beliefs in Judaism as well.

WTF?!? I have no desire to hurt a newborn baby. (I also have no desire to force adults to go through unnecessary medical procedures) I guess that makes me just like Hitler. Claiming antisemitism or comparing me to Hitler because I disagree with you just weakens your argument.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If my religious tradition required inflicting pain on an infant for no medical benefit, I would rethink my religion.

+1

How does this occur to so few people?

-1 Don't worry. You aren't the only one who thinks negatively about Judaism. Hitler shared your beliefs in Judaism as well.

WTF?!? I have no desire to hurt a newborn baby. (I also have no desire to force adults to go through unnecessary medical procedures) I guess that makes me just like Hitler. Claiming antisemitism or comparing me to Hitler because I disagree with you just weakens your argument.

Jews have a persecution complex... Because they were really persecuted. Don't worry about the PP who's calling you Hitler. She's just sensitive for understandable historical cultural reason. Wish her well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most boys in the US who are circumcised are not Jewish.

If you are Jewish, even if you're nonreligious, the decision to go against thousands of years of tradition and not circumcise can feel much more momentous than just doing it. FWIW.

This was how I felt. And now I regret it. It doesn't consume me, but if I could go back and do it again i would not have my boys circumcised.

- Jewish father of two boys.

Thanks for sharing. I think my husband did feel like you initially, but what shifted things for him was attending an actual circumcision (mohel who was a dr, in a clinic setting) where as the godfather he had to hold down the baby during the procedure. He said he'd never felt someone resist something so powerfully. I was in the room with several other men, all of whom did not want to watch and see what was happening. I did, because I want to make the decision based on what it means in reality and this is a small part of that.

Anyway, that was a while ago but it did sort of open up the question for him of why we're doing this -- otherwise, I think the weight of tradition would have been a deciding factor. If you don't mind telling me why you would change your decision now, especially if it has to do with how it impacts your son's lives, I'd appreciate it.

PP here. With some time to look back on it, I realize that meaningless reliance on tradition is a dumb reason to do something. The weight of tradition I felt then was very heavy; with some distance, I realize that my kids would be no more or less Jewish, no more or less connected to their background and traditions and faith if they were uncircumcised. I simply see no connection. One of my children has asked me about it a few times, and I have had no good answers for him - I tell him the truth, that at the time I felt it was important, but as time has passed I realize that it is not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you realize how secular Israel is? Other than Jerusalem, if you go to Tel Aviv, the clubs are hopping and the pork is flying on Shabbat.

Israel is not secular. It's a theocracy.

Some secular people do exist, especially in Tel Aviv, and do learn to ignore that basic fact, but please. You are not fooling anyone.

Lol. You are quite ignorant of the facts. Almost 50 percent of Israeli jews are secular.

OP, You are taking out your frustration of Israeli politics and religionon your unborn son and this decision. What does the fact that you can't get married in Israel have to do with circumcision of your son? Your dh married you. He clearly doesn't give a shit about what you can and cannot do in Israel. You and he need to figure this out together. His is your child, together. You get to decide these things, as a family, it should not be one person making the decision and for the love of God, don't make your choice to circumcise or not a political statement! How do you think your son would feel about that?

OP here. I know it's a long thread, but maybe read through before you take the time to chastise me. I explained what it has to do with my decision and it's not the reductive, ideologically overdetermined caricature you are making it out to be.

i did read the entire thread. i am not the only one who stated what i did. i am sorry that you took offense to what i said but not others - but you keep coming back to Israel and the things that Israel does and what it stands for that upsets you. that's fine, that is your right to feel that way, but it has no place in making this decision about circumcision.

I'm sorry, I don't think you understand. The point is that in Israel, there is both an institutional and cultural understanding of Judaism that affects how people there will understand my child's identity. That is absolutely relevant to how he will see his own circumcision or lack thereof, unless we have another context to put it in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We didn't circumcise. I let DH decide and he had read about the reduced sensitivity and decided not to.

It did not work out for DS. He had this ballooning problem most of his life - where the pee couldn't get out fast enough so his skin would balloon up while it slowly leaked out? He went to a few urologists and we tried different things. Basically though he always had trouble with it and it did not work out.
At 19 he had surgery to remove his foreskin which was a biggish deal with anesthesia and big stitches which can't be good for 'sensation' (there's a whole yahoo group about it).

Anyway, I generally vote for not taking off body parts that you were born with but with boys and hygiene (what?) and with the amount of trouble it was to have it done as an adult versus a baby I'd most likely circumcise a new son.

Also if your son will be with many Jewisb boys that might sway me towards circumcision as well.

I wouldn't knock your kids Jewish heritage either - it's a wonderful community of people that you might like to participate in.

Sorry for your son's condition. This sounds pretty rare, though, right? As in, it wouldn't be a reason to recommend general circumcision for everyone as a preventative measure?

As for the rest... once again, no one's knocking anything. It's my husband's choice ultimately how involved he wants the family to be in the American Jewish community, and as I said he's mostly indifferent to it because he's secular. Frankly, all of our Jewish friends are my friends and colleagues -- it's through them that we have experienced varieties of American Jewish practice, from orthodox to reform to reconstructionist. He is more comfortable with an international ex-pat crowd. Not all Israelis identify with the American Jewish community, and that's fine. Reform Judaism is totally exotic to the Judaism that he experienced growing up. We have nothing against it, it's just not going to be the community he naturally gravitates towards.

We prioritize diversity in our children's education and our other child attends a bilingual (not Hebrew) school so there is no reason that our son will necessarily be with more Jewish boys in his day to day life here. Of course he will when he visits Israel, which as I've said is another context.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most boys in the US who are circumcised are not Jewish.

If you are Jewish, even if you're nonreligious, the decision to go against thousands of years of tradition and not circumcise can feel much more momentous than just doing it. FWIW.

This was how I felt. And now I regret it. It doesn't consume me, but if I could go back and do it again i would not have my boys circumcised.

- Jewish father of two boys.

Thanks for sharing. I think my husband did feel like you initially, but what shifted things for him was attending an actual circumcision (mohel who was a dr, in a clinic setting) where as the godfather he had to hold down the baby during the procedure. He said he'd never felt someone resist something so powerfully. I was in the room with several other men, all of whom did not want to watch and see what was happening. I did, because I want to make the decision based on what it means in reality and this is a small part of that.

Anyway, that was a while ago but it did sort of open up the question for him of why we're doing this -- otherwise, I think the weight of tradition would have been a deciding factor. If you don't mind telling me why you would change your decision now, especially if it has to do with how it impacts your son's lives, I'd appreciate it.

PP here. With some time to look back on it, I realize that meaningless reliance on tradition is a dumb reason to do something. The weight of tradition I felt then was very heavy; with some distance, I realize that my kids would be no more or less Jewish, no more or less connected to their background and traditions and faith if they were uncircumcised. I simply see no connection. One of my children has asked me about it a few times, and I have had no good answers for him - I tell him the truth, that at the time I felt it was important, but as time has passed I realize that it is not.

Thanks, that makes a lot of sense. I think my husband is leaning towards something like this. It's understandable when we get to these big life milestones that we look to tradition as a guide for how to pass through, but in the end it's not always what ends up mattering to us. I look back at my wedding sometimes and have the same feelings. I guess we grow and learn. Again, thanks for sharing how this evolved for you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you realize how secular Israel is? Other than Jerusalem, if you go to Tel Aviv, the clubs are hopping and the pork is flying on Shabbat.

Israel is not secular. It's a theocracy.

Some secular people do exist, especially in Tel Aviv, and do learn to ignore that basic fact, but please. You are not fooling anyone.

Lol. You are quite ignorant of the facts. Almost 50 percent of Israeli jews are secular.

OP, You are taking out your frustration of Israeli politics and religionon your unborn son and this decision. What does the fact that you can't get married in Israel have to do with circumcision of your son? Your dh married you. He clearly doesn't give a shit about what you can and cannot do in Israel. You and he need to figure this out together. His is your child, together. You get to decide these things, as a family, it should not be one person making the decision and for the love of God, don't make your choice to circumcise or not a political statement! How do you think your son would feel about that?

OP here. I know it's a long thread, but maybe read through before you take the time to chastise me. I explained what it has to do with my decision and it's not the reductive, ideologically overdetermined caricature you are making it out to be.

i did read the entire thread. i am not the only one who stated what i did. i am sorry that you took offense to what i said but not others - but you keep coming back to Israel and the things that Israel does and what it stands for that upsets you. that's fine, that is your right to feel that way, but it has no place in making this decision about circumcision.

I'm sorry, I don't think you understand. The point is that in Israel, there is both an institutional and cultural understanding of Judaism that affects how people there will understand my child's identity. That is absolutely relevant to how he will see his own circumcision or lack thereof, unless we have another context to put it in.

I do understand, actually. I am on your side, but you are too prickly to see that.

Your dh does not care. He is the Israeli Jew. Why, then, are you dragging his country into this if he himself does not care?

I am an American Jewish woman, married to an American Jewish man. We had a bris for my son. I really don't care what you decide for your own family. But what I am reading from you is that you are placing the burden of Israeli Judaism on your shoulders when it does not need to be. And THAT is what bothers me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, I've read the entire thread. Re the PP, there are online communities of people who have had problems with circumcised penises, too. Neither option will guarantee your son a life of no penis issues.

Just to reflect back at you what I've heard from you, it's really clear that you don't want to do this and your DH doesn't give a hoot.

It's also clear that you're a thoughtful curious person trying to live an ethical and meaningfully communal life.

I would:

(1) Not circumcise

(2) Join the most liberal Jewish community you can find. I know you say there's no reason to do this because your DH is secular. No biggie. There are super secular communities of Jews out there -- from the liberalist of Reform synagogues to just basically meet-up groups. It doesn't matter if it's not an Israeli thing. You sound like you will be spending some time in the US, so do it for the benefit of your time here. If you go to Israel and it makes no sense there, so what. American Jews go to Israel all the time and deal with a bit of culture clash. I think your son will find community among the liberalist of Jews here who are open and questioning tradition like you are. You could also join a Unitarian congregation and get the same type of thing. It just really seems like imparting some sort of communal identity on your son would be important to you. It would also give you a forum (of real people, invested in your development, rather than online ones who really don't care) to keep working through your values. Developing our values is what we do as humans.

Good luck.

Thanks, I appreciate this. I've had the same thought about communities against circumcision, as we've spent quite a lot of time out in the Bay Area and I think they regard it as child mutilation.

Anyway... at one point, we were -- well, I was -- very much searching for the kind of community you're talking about, and we looked into the local Unitarians & Quakers, Buddhist communities, even very progressive Catholic churches and synagogues. Our oldest is only 3 now and has a great international school community so that has been enough. But I think you're right that as the kids grow older this is something that will be important. As a secular Israeli, I think my husband's set foot in temple a few times as a child and most of his Jewish-ness comes through the holidays and family gatherings. So I worry that it will feel forced, artificial, and too American for him (in the sense of endlessly self-conscious and reflective) to make it a point to find something like this. Maybe as it gets more age-appropriate for the kids we will do it as a way to discuss these things with them. Thanks again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you realize how secular Israel is? Other than Jerusalem, if you go to Tel Aviv, the clubs are hopping and the pork is flying on Shabbat.

Israel is not secular. It's a theocracy.

Some secular people do exist, especially in Tel Aviv, and do learn to ignore that basic fact, but please. You are not fooling anyone.

Lol. You are quite ignorant of the facts. Almost 50 percent of Israeli jews are secular.

OP, You are taking out your frustration of Israeli politics and religionon your unborn son and this decision. What does the fact that you can't get married in Israel have to do with circumcision of your son? Your dh married you. He clearly doesn't give a shit about what you can and cannot do in Israel. You and he need to figure this out together. His is your child, together. You get to decide these things, as a family, it should not be one person making the decision and for the love of God, don't make your choice to circumcise or not a political statement! How do you think your son would feel about that?

OP here. I know it's a long thread, but maybe read through before you take the time to chastise me. I explained what it has to do with my decision and it's not the reductive, ideologically overdetermined caricature you are making it out to be.

i did read the entire thread. i am not the only one who stated what i did. i am sorry that you took offense to what i said but not others - but you keep coming back to Israel and the things that Israel does and what it stands for that upsets you. that's fine, that is your right to feel that way, but it has no place in making this decision about circumcision.

I'm sorry, I don't think you understand. The point is that in Israel, there is both an institutional and cultural understanding of Judaism that affects how people there will understand my child's identity. That is absolutely relevant to how he will see his own circumcision or lack thereof, unless we have another context to put it in.

I do understand, actually. I am on your side, but you are too prickly to see that.

Your dh does not care. He is the Israeli Jew. Why, then, are you dragging his country into this if he himself does not care?

I am an American Jewish woman, married to an American Jewish man. We had a bris for my son. I really don't care what you decide for your own family. But what I am reading from you is that you are placing the burden of Israeli Judaism on your shoulders when it does not need to be. And THAT is what bothers me.

Wow, OK. Something about my life bothers you personally? Interesting. As the child of immigrants who come from a very different culture, I'm very aware of how these various identities can collide and interact. I have gone to college with Israeli American children and they eventually have to reckon with this part of their identities. As an American married to an American, you don't seem to have any personal experience with this kind of issue yourself, unless I'm wrong?

For example, w've already had to make a decision about their passports -- I decided to intentionally revoke them, because I don't want them to feel that they are shirking their military duty (even though there's an easy way for overseas Israelis to get out of it, I don't want them to feel that this is a decision they are responsible for simply because their father happens to be Israeli). I had to give up one of my birth passports when I was 18 due to dual citizenship requirements, so I understand what this could mean to them. There are lots of things like this.

Finally, just because my husband's attitude is one of detachment doesn't mean that's how my children will take it. My oldest is quite sensitive and already developing an individual relation with the grandparents. I think they ARE going to be impacted by how his extended family relates to them and speaks to them about this. So what if their father's attitude is X... they have their own world and relationships, which does extend in this case to Israel.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We didn't circumcise. I let DH decide and he had read about the reduced sensitivity and decided not to.

It did not work out for DS. He had this ballooning problem most of his life - where the pee couldn't get out fast enough so his skin would balloon up while it slowly leaked out? He went to a few urologists and we tried different things. Basically though he always had trouble with it and it did not work out.
At 19 he had surgery to remove his foreskin which was a biggish deal with anesthesia and big stitches which can't be good for 'sensation' (there's a whole yahoo group about it).

Anyway, I generally vote for not taking off body parts that you were born with but with boys and hygiene (what?) and with the amount of trouble it was to have it done as an adult versus a baby I'd most likely circumcise a new son.

Also if your son will be with many Jewisb boys that might sway me towards circumcision as well.

I wouldn't knock your kids Jewish heritage either - it's a wonderful community of people that you might like to participate in.

Sorry for your son's condition. This sounds pretty rare, though, right? As in, it wouldn't be a reason to recommend general circumcision for everyone as a preventative measure?

As for the rest... once again, no one's knocking anything. It's my husband's choice ultimately how involved he wants the family to be in the American Jewish community, and as I said he's mostly indifferent to it because he's secular. Frankly, all of our Jewish friends are my friends and colleagues -- it's through them that we have experienced varieties of American Jewish practice, from orthodox to reform to reconstructionist. He is more comfortable with an international ex-pat crowd. Not all Israelis identify with the American Jewish community, and that's fine. Reform Judaism is totally exotic to the Judaism that he experienced growing up. We have nothing against it, it's just not going to be the community he naturally gravitates towards.

We prioritize diversity in our children's education and our other child attends a bilingual (not Hebrew) school so there is no reason that our son will necessarily be with more Jewish boys in his day to day life here. Of course he will when he visits Israel, which as I've said is another context.

I think it's rare. I would expect so otherwise it would be more common than it is. I would circumcise seeing what I've seen but that doesn't mean you have to, no.
I've asked my friends about their husbands who are uncut and it's not a big issue for them.

Men who are uncircumcised should chime in, I think. It would be helpful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think your use of the term "religious crap" tells me all I needs to know. Best of luck.

Me too. Tells me OP is smart and she and her husband will probably come to the right conclusion to not circumcise. I've heard of doing a ceremony where they just prick the baby's foreskin, but even that seems a bit cruel. It's such a cruel and archaic practice. If your DH isn't even religious, I don't know why you would do this to your son. You can never take it back. You sound smart, OP, you hsould feel free to put your foot down and say no.

OK, I will say that the one bris we attended, it did really feel like it was a practice from another time and place. After the blood-letting we drank and ate and they read something about the baby's name. We were definitely in the realm of the religious and you could understand how something like this came to be freighted with all this meaning. At the same time, it made a part of me viscerally uncomfortable. The only thing I can compare it to is the one time I was present at an Islamic celebration of the Day of Ashura, in which people were literally cutting themselves and praying. I had just been on a hike with friends and out in nature and it was the most jarring and disturbing experience to suddenly see this happening. Human beings are so, so complicated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We didn't circumcise. I let DH decide and he had read about the reduced sensitivity and decided not to.

It did not work out for DS. He had this ballooning problem most of his life - where the pee couldn't get out fast enough so his skin would balloon up while it slowly leaked out? He went to a few urologists and we tried different things. Basically though he always had trouble with it and it did not work out.
At 19 he had surgery to remove his foreskin which was a biggish deal with anesthesia and big stitches which can't be good for 'sensation' (there's a whole yahoo group about it).

Anyway, I generally vote for not taking off body parts that you were born with but with boys and hygiene (what?) and with the amount of trouble it was to have it done as an adult versus a baby I'd most likely circumcise a new son.

Also if your son will be with many Jewisb boys that might sway me towards circumcision as well.

I wouldn't knock your kids Jewish heritage either - it's a wonderful community of people that you might like to participate in.

Sorry for your son's condition. This sounds pretty rare, though, right? As in, it wouldn't be a reason to recommend general circumcision for everyone as a preventative measure?

As for the rest... once again, no one's knocking anything. It's my husband's choice ultimately how involved he wants the family to be in the American Jewish community, and as I said he's mostly indifferent to it because he's secular. Frankly, all of our Jewish friends are my friends and colleagues -- it's through them that we have experienced varieties of American Jewish practice, from orthodox to reform to reconstructionist. He is more comfortable with an international ex-pat crowd. Not all Israelis identify with the American Jewish community, and that's fine. Reform Judaism is totally exotic to the Judaism that he experienced growing up. We have nothing against it, it's just not going to be the community he naturally gravitates towards.

We prioritize diversity in our children's education and our other child attends a bilingual (not Hebrew) school so there is no reason that our son will necessarily be with more Jewish boys in his day to day life here. Of course he will when he visits Israel, which as I've said is another context.

I think it's rare. I would expect so otherwise it would be more common than it is. I would circumcise seeing what I've seen but that doesn't mean you have to, no.
I've asked my friends about their husbands who are uncut and it's not a big issue for them.

Men who are uncircumcised should chime in, I think. It would be helpful.

Thanks, I will look into the percentages. At this point the only thing I can think to do is look up actual risk for complications, diseases, etc., on both sides and evaluate based on our context. I have been searching but it's really hard to find, for instance, what percent of circumcisions need to be repeated or end in some bad complication.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you realize how secular Israel is? Other than Jerusalem, if you go to Tel Aviv, the clubs are hopping and the pork is flying on Shabbat.

Israel is not secular. It's a theocracy.

Some secular people do exist, especially in Tel Aviv, and do learn to ignore that basic fact, but please. You are not fooling anyone.

Lol. You are quite ignorant of the facts. Almost 50 percent of Israeli jews are secular.

OP, You are taking out your frustration of Israeli politics and religionon your unborn son and this decision. What does the fact that you can't get married in Israel have to do with circumcision of your son? Your dh married you. He clearly doesn't give a shit about what you can and cannot do in Israel. You and he need to figure this out together. His is your child, together. You get to decide these things, as a family, it should not be one person making the decision and for the love of God, don't make your choice to circumcise or not a political statement! How do you think your son would feel about that?

OP here. I know it's a long thread, but maybe read through before you take the time to chastise me. I explained what it has to do with my decision and it's not the reductive, ideologically overdetermined caricature you are making it out to be.

i did read the entire thread. i am not the only one who stated what i did. i am sorry that you took offense to what i said but not others - but you keep coming back to Israel and the things that Israel does and what it stands for that upsets you. that's fine, that is your right to feel that way, but it has no place in making this decision about circumcision.

I'm sorry, I don't think you understand. The point is that in Israel, there is both an institutional and cultural understanding of Judaism that affects how people there will understand my child's identity. That is absolutely relevant to how he will see his own circumcision or lack thereof, unless we have another context to put it in.

I do understand, actually. I am on your side, but you are too prickly to see that.

Your dh does not care. He is the Israeli Jew. Why, then, are you dragging his country into this if he himself does not care?

I am an American Jewish woman, married to an American Jewish man. We had a bris for my son. I really don't care what you decide for your own family. But what I am reading from you is that you are placing the burden of Israeli Judaism on your shoulders when it does not need to be. And THAT is what bothers me.

Wow, OK. Something about my life bothers you personally? Interesting. As the child of immigrants who come from a very different culture, I'm very aware of how these various identities can collide and interact. I have gone to college with Israeli American children and they eventually have to reckon with this part of their identities. As an American married to an American, you don't seem to have any personal experience with this kind of issue yourself, unless I'm wrong?

For example, w've already had to make a decision about their passports -- I decided to intentionally revoke them, because I don't want them to feel that they are shirking their military duty (even though there's an easy way for overseas Israelis to get out of it, I don't want them to feel that this is a decision they are responsible for simply because their father happens to be Israeli). I had to give up one of my birth passports when I was 18 due to dual citizenship requirements, so I understand what this could mean to them. There are lots of things like this.

Finally, just because my husband's attitude is one of detachment doesn't mean that's how my children will take it. My oldest is quite sensitive and already developing an individual relation with the grandparents. I think they ARE going to be impacted by how his extended family relates to them and speaks to them about this. So what if their father's attitude is X... they have their own world and relationships, which does extend in this case to Israel.

Lady, you cannot control everything. There are consequences to every action and inaction. You cannot know what will or will not affect your unborn child. You are not Israeli. Let your dh take the lead on this and give yourself a major break. Peace out.

[Anonymous]

Just want to point out that there is no test to be part of the American Jewish community.

Nobody is going to pull your son's pants down to determine if he is welcome to join a temple, or attend services, or go to Jewish day camp, join Hillel at his college, eat at Katz's, vote Democratic (ok, that was a joke), take the day off at work/school on Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur, stick up for/criticize Israel, or do any of the many, many things that define the community of "American Jews."

I can't speak to Israel, but i can tell you that in my almost 50 years as an American Jew, not once have I been asked about circumcision - at a Jewish event, or elsewhere for that matter.

[Anonymous]

I read the OP but not the rest of this long thread.

I am not sure of the dilemma. The son is not Jewish according to Orthodox Judaism OR according to Conservative Judaism. He would only be Jewish according to Reform if he was raised and educated as a Jew, which does not seem to be the intent of the parents. There is no obligation in Jewish law for this baby to be circumcised, because circumcision is only required for Jews. The father seems to want (or not?) but the father made the choice to marry a non-Jewish woman who has not converted to Judaism (as for the state of Israel, the most change anyone might expect is recognition of conversion by the non-Orthodox streams, which would not solve any of OPs problems).

I suggest the OP and her husband find a Reconstructionist rabbi who can come up some rite of passage that makes them happy.

I had a daughter only but would have had a son circumcised. I remember no pain from mine, and having to do it as an adult is more painful (I know people who came from the USSR where circumcision was banned, and had it it as adults - the ban was no favor to them). But then I am Jew, married to a Jew, who raised my child as a Jew, within a tradition that includes Jewish law.