Circumcision/Judaism

[Anonymous]

My husband is Jewish, I am not. To dumb down our decision, the main reason we are circumcised our son (hospital circumcision, not bris) is because his dad is circumcised. So our son's penis will always look like his dad's.

Re: the "religious crap" part, we have found a very welcoming Reform temple that we attend from time to time. I have not been made to feel anything other than welcome--there are many interfaith families there in addition to us. Reform Judaism considers a child to be Jewish if either of their parents are Jewish AND they are raised Jewish. Not just because their mom is Jewish.

[Anonymous]

I am also a non-Jewish woman married to a Jewish man. We had a lot of discussions about this issue before our son was born. My husband is not religious, but wanted to circumcise our son basically because he felt it was "weird" not to be circumcised. Judaism was about a 10% factor in his preference, I would estimate. If Judaism hadn't been an issue, I probably would have been about 30% against circumcision based on the idea that it's unnecessary and doesn't clearly confer health benefits. But the Judaism issue made me more 50/50 because I want my kids to have at least some degree of Jewish identity. I thought, what if my son grows up and wants to identify as Jewish and has to have an adult circumcision? That would be terrible (I assume).

As it happened, we decided to circumcise. But then my husband changed his mind after our son was born when he had a number of other medical problems.

I agree with the PPs that you shouldn't make this issue the battleground for your feelings about Judaism. If your husband wants to circumcise and you aren't really strongly against it, I would go ahead and do it. I think the fact that the father is the one with a penis gives him more than a 50% vote on this. If he really doesn't care and you are against it for non-religion-related reasons, then OK, don't do it.

I also think you should also try to get a handle on your feelings about Judaism by reading about the reform or reconstructionist movements. They do not think it's necessary for the mother to be Jewish in order for the kid to be Jewish, for instance. If you are generalizing that the religion as a whole is sexist based on the rules of the ruling rabbinate in Israel, which is definitely very extreme, you are not giving the whole tradition and identity a fair shake. If it is important to your husband at all I think you owe it to him to have a more informed and balanced approach.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My husband is Jewish, I am not. To dumb down our decision, the main reason we are circumcised our son (hospital circumcision, not bris) is because his dad is circumcised. So our son's penis will always look like his dad's.

Re: the "religious crap" part, we have found a very welcoming Reform temple that we attend from time to time. I have not been made to feel anything other than welcome--there are many interfaith families there in addition to us. Reform Judaism considers a child to be Jewish if either of their parents are Jewish AND they are raised Jewish. Not just because their mom is Jewish.

Thanks. Can you tell me how that's made a difference in your day-to-day experience, to have them look alike? I can't really imagine all the scenarios, although I'm sure there are some.

As for Reform, I didn't know that. I would probably feel more comfortable in that context, given their views about gender. However we never really explored it because in Israel, those who actually practice Judaism don't consider Reform to be Judaism and the seculars don't know what to do with it. It's very much an American thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am also a non-Jewish woman married to a Jewish man. We had a lot of discussions about this issue before our son was born. My husband is not religious, but wanted to circumcise our son basically because he felt it was "weird" not to be circumcised. Judaism was about a 10% factor in his preference, I would estimate. If Judaism hadn't been an issue, I probably would have been about 30% against circumcision based on the idea that it's unnecessary and doesn't clearly confer health benefits. But the Judaism issue made me more 50/50 because I want my kids to have at least some degree of Jewish identity. I thought, what if my son grows up and wants to identify as Jewish and has to have an adult circumcision? That would be terrible (I assume).

As it happened, we decided to circumcise. But then my husband changed his mind after our son was born when he had a number of other medical problems.

I agree with the PPs that you shouldn't make this issue the battleground for your feelings about Judaism. If your husband wants to circumcise and you aren't really strongly against it, I would go ahead and do it. I think the fact that the father is the one with a penis gives him more than a 50% vote on this. If he really doesn't care and you are against it for non-religion-related reasons, then OK, don't do it.

I also think you should also try to get a handle on your feelings about Judaism by reading about the reform or reconstructionist movements. They do not think it's necessary for the mother to be Jewish in order for the kid to be Jewish, for instance. If you are generalizing that the religion as a whole is sexist based on the rules of the ruling rabbinate in Israel, which is definitely very extreme, you are not giving the whole tradition and identity a fair shake. If it is important to your husband at all I think you owe it to him to have a more informed and balanced approach.

OK, thanks. I have heard this about medical issues also.

Re: reform, again, my context for encountering this is Israeli due to my husband's family. They are secular like many others. For this reason, I'd say my husband has a very different relation to religious Judaism than most American Jews who have the reform/reconstructionist options. He's not particularly interested in those or in any religion, so it doesn't seem my place to push him to be Jewish if you know what I mean. I know the rabbinate in Israel is extreme. But as this is the immediate context in which my children will also be encountering their "Jewish" (or not, as it were) identity, my thought has been that I have to take that into consideration as it will affect their own self-understanding down the line.

[Anonymous]

OP again -- just to give an example of what I mean, my in-laws were very against a church wedding although that would have been my default (not because I'm very religious, but because of my family). Fine. I get it, you were persecuted in churches. But then I offered an interfaith wedding with a rabbi, obviously would have had to be reform or whatever, and some other officiant. That was deemed a "circus" by my secular FIL who is not religious himself but obviously has cultural ideas about what is Jewish and what is not. So you see my dilemma. Reform/reconstructionist is not going to be considered "Jewish" by them, even though they aren't really religious, because of the cultural factor. And if it's not for him and his family, there's no reason for me to go there.

[Anonymous]

Actually, now that we are talking about Reform -- what's their position on circumcision? I'm guessing they've dropped a lot of the other laws and rituals that are part of Orthodox Jewish identity, so if they kept this one what's the justification?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP again -- just to give an example of what I mean, my in-laws were very against a church wedding although that would have been my default (not because I'm very religious, but because of my family). Fine. I get it, you were persecuted in churches. But then I offered an interfaith wedding with a rabbi, obviously would have had to be reform or whatever, and some other officiant. That was deemed a "circus" by my secular FIL who is not religious himself but obviously has cultural ideas about what is Jewish and what is not. So you see my dilemma. Reform/reconstructionist is not going to be considered "Jewish" by them, even though they aren't really religious, because of the cultural factor. And if it's not for him and his family, there's no reason for me to go there.

It's great that you project your in law problems on an entire religion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP again -- just to give an example of what I mean, my in-laws were very against a church wedding although that would have been my default (not because I'm very religious, but because of my family). Fine. I get it, you were persecuted in churches. But then I offered an interfaith wedding with a rabbi, obviously would have had to be reform or whatever, and some other officiant. That was deemed a "circus" by my secular FIL who is not religious himself but obviously has cultural ideas about what is Jewish and what is not. So you see my dilemma. Reform/reconstructionist is not going to be considered "Jewish" by them, even though they aren't really religious, because of the cultural factor. And if it's not for him and his family, there's no reason for me to go there.

It's great that you project your in law problems on an entire religion.

What are you talking about? I'm talking about something very concrete -- the family & cultural context in which the abstraction of "Judaism" (which means many things to many people, obviously) is going to have a direct bearing on my children's lives. I'm not debating with you about what is Jewish and what is not. I'm saying that this is how these people think, and these are the people I and my children are dealing with in our daily lives. I don't deal in abstractions.

[Anonymous]

I'm a cut man and my son is intact. And it doesn't matter.

Honestly, 'my son's genitals should look like mine' is one of the creepiest and most bizarre concepts I've heard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm a cut man and my son is intact. And it doesn't matter.

Honestly, 'my son's genitals should look like mine' is one of the creepiest and most bizarre concepts I've heard.

OK, thanks. By doesn't matter, I'm taking you to mean that it hasn't affected potty training, hygiene instruction, whatever -- right?

Did you ever explain why they look different or does your son just accept it without caring?

[Anonymous]

Your kids are half Jewish and half you husbands. You need to respect his culture and yours.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Your kids are half Jewish and half you husbands. You need to respect his culture and yours.

Not OP. Many would argue that respecting the autonomy of a child's body is more important than respecting an archaic and medically unnecessary cultural practice.

[Anonymous]

Convert married to a Jewish man here. Judaism in the US is a totally different animal than the Israeli experience. I understand and even identify with a lot of what you've said, while echoing what others have said about the Reform movement (and even parts of the Conservative movement) being a lot more opening and welcoming of 'inter-faith' (maybe inter-cultural in your case?) families. So please, try to hold off on painting with such a broad brush before exploring the continuum of American Judaism.

Re: circumcision
People have a lot of strong feelings on the issue, and we're all biased. It's a tough choice and it's great you're being thoughtful about it. Fathers often have a lot more psychological stuff wrapped up in the decision, and you should hear that out - as well as acknowledge that it's a pretty big deal as a cultural rite of passage for even many nonreligious Jews. Good luck - I hope you can reach a decision together.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My husband is Jewish, I am not. To dumb down our decision, the main reason we are circumcised our son (hospital circumcision, not bris) is because his dad is circumcised. So our son's penis will always look like his dad's.

Re: the "religious crap" part, we have found a very welcoming Reform temple that we attend from time to time. I have not been made to feel anything other than welcome--there are many interfaith families there in addition to us. Reform Judaism considers a child to be Jewish if either of their parents are Jewish AND they are raised Jewish. Not just because their mom is Jewish.

Thanks. Can you tell me how that's made a difference in your day-to-day experience, to have them look alike? I can't really imagine all the scenarios, although I'm sure there are some.


As for Reform, I didn't know that. I would probably feel more comfortable in that context, given their views about gender. However we never really explored it because in Israel, those who actually practice Judaism don't consider Reform to be Judaism and the seculars don't know what to do with it. It's very much an American thing.

DS is three. We are currently working on potty training. And the fact that mommy doesnt have a penis, mommy has a vagina, because she is a girl. Daddy has a penis. When DS sees daddy go potty/sees him naked, daddy's penis looks like his.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a cut man and my son is intact. And it doesn't matter.

Honestly, 'my son's genitals should look like mine' is one of the creepiest and most bizarre concepts I've heard.

OK, thanks. By doesn't matter, I'm taking you to mean that it hasn't affected potty training, hygiene instruction, whatever -- right?

Did you ever explain why they look different or does your son just accept it without caring?

It hasn't affected those things. Correct.

My son and his sister asked about the difference and I explained that doctors used to thing it was an important thing to do but now they know it's fine to leave baby boys alone and many parents choose to.