Circumcision/Judaism

[Anonymous]

I know this is going to be a controversial post, but I'm going to ask anyway to try and sort out what I think about this. We are about to have a boy. My husband is Jewish, and I am not. I come from a culture where it's quite common not to circumcise. I never planned to, and as recent research seems to show it doesn't have medical advantages in developed nations as long as good hygiene is practiced and can interfere with sensitivity, etc., I assumed I would not. Now my husband is not pushing it and says he wants to look at the research and decide. But I know part of him feels it would be a rite of passage associated with his Jewish identity.

Here's the thing -- I've tried very hard to be open to Judaism, celebrating holidays and participating in the Jewish community, but there are some things that really bother me. My children are not considered half-Jewish because I'm not Jewish. There's this whole thing about the chosen people and outsiders/insiders. I hear it in all the liturgy. I just don't feel I can connect with it, and I also don't want to give my children the burden of thinking they are Jewish when many Jews won't consider them so. My husband is from Israel and we would not have been allowed to get married there because I am not Jewish, unless I underwent a full orthodox conversion. I was at one point willing to convert but my husband is not religious and he told me he preferred I would not. Regardless, it strikes me as a discriminatory practice that I don't feel comfortable with (on the part of the state), and it really underscored to me that I would not be considered a member of the community in many ways as we got married.

I don't really want my "issues" with this religious crap to confound the decision about circumcision. I want to keep an open mind. I know it is very important to Jewish identity and so on, and I also know there are several countries where it's becoming a human rights/consent issue. It's just getting to the point that I don't even know what I am thinking about and need something concrete to ground me. If you've read this far, and you have any similar experiences in coming to a decision, would appreciate hearing them. Thanks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's just getting to the point that I don't even know what I am thinking about and need something concrete to ground me. If you've read this far, and you have any similar experiences in coming to a decision, would appreciate hearing them. Thanks.

How about discussing this with your husband, your sons father, to get some concrete grounding. Sounds like you are confused, and I don't know how the opinions of strangers will help. Does your husband want him circumcised regardless of whether it's is during a traditional Bris, or at the hospital, or would he rather leave him uncircumcised.

[Anonymous]

I think your use of the term "religious crap" tells me all I needs to know. Best of luck.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think your use of the term "religious crap" tells me all I needs to know. Best of luck.

It is "religious crap," and religious crap is probably the main cause of humanity's pains right now. Talk to your husband -- if he is not that religious, he might agree.
We didn't cut our son and we don't regret it...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's just getting to the point that I don't even know what I am thinking about and need something concrete to ground me. If you've read this far, and you have any similar experiences in coming to a decision, would appreciate hearing them. Thanks.

How about discussing this with your husband, your sons father, to get some concrete grounding. Sounds like you are confused, and I don't know how the opinions of strangers will help. Does your husband want him circumcised regardless of whether it's is during a traditional Bris, or at the hospital, or would he rather leave him uncircumcised.

I don't think he feels that strongly about it. I will probably have to decide. I don't know at the moment whether my aversion to those specific religious issues is pushing me in a direction where I am not taking into consideration the day-to-day differences of what it means to have a circumcised vs not penis. Although I understand how meaningful symbols and personal experiences can be, I generally decide things for my children based on practicality. Practicality could include things like, in this culture everyone is circumcised so it's going to make him feel like a pariah (not true, but just an example). So I wanted to hear from other people who made this decision and what concrete factors actually ended up making a difference to their experience.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think your use of the term "religious crap" tells me all I needs to know. Best of luck.

It is "religious crap," and religious crap is probably the main cause of humanity's pains right now. Talk to your husband -- if he is not that religious, he might agree.
We didn't cut our son and we don't regret it...

I think you are an angry person. Fine. Own your anger and discontent. Don't blame the Jewish community. If you're not happy, that's on you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think your use of the term "religious crap" tells me all I needs to know. Best of luck.

Well, actually I meant that my feelings about the religious aspect are just that -- feelings that don't have a bearing on the reality of the situation. If you want to tell me otherwise, go ahead. Otherwise, if the term "crap" offends you... then bye! Totally fine with me.

[Anonymous]

I'm in a similar situation to yours, a non-Jew (raised Catholic) married to a Jewish man. My personal opinion is that you need to separate your feelings about Judaism generally from your feelings about circumcision, and then figure out how you feel about each of them independently. Right now, it sounds like you're preparing to use the circumcision decision as a battleground to fight about your husband's faith, and that's a really problematic way to a make a decision.

We decided to circumcise our son. If Judaism hadn't been a factor, I wouldn't have wanted to circumcise, but I respect circumcision's place in the Jewish faith and knew it was more important to my husband that he be circumcised than it was to me that he not be. I may have had an easier time coming to that decision, though, because my feelings on the Jewish faith are different than yours. Although I have not converted (and don't intend to, we are a happily interfaith family), I have found our Jewish community to be incredibly warm and welcoming to me and to our children. Perhaps trying a different temple with a focus might help you feel more at ease with welcoming Judaism into your family's life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think your use of the term "religious crap" tells me all I needs to know. Best of luck.

It is "religious crap," and religious crap is probably the main cause of humanity's pains right now. Talk to your husband -- if he is not that religious, he might agree.
We didn't cut our son and we don't regret it...

He probably would agree with your first statement TBH.

I have heard from moms of infants that it's generally easier not to have a circumcision. How old is your son? Is he of an age that he washes himself?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's just getting to the point that I don't even know what I am thinking about and need something concrete to ground me. If you've read this far, and you have any similar experiences in coming to a decision, would appreciate hearing them. Thanks.

How about discussing this with your husband, your sons father, to get some concrete grounding. Sounds like you are confused, and I don't know how the opinions of strangers will help. Does your husband want him circumcised regardless of whether it's is during a traditional Bris, or at the hospital, or would he rather leave him uncircumcised.

I don't think he feels that strongly about it. I will probably have to decide. I don't know at the moment whether my aversion to those specific religious issues is pushing me in a direction where I am not taking into consideration the day-to-day differences of what it means to have a circumcised vs not penis. Although I understand how meaningful symbols and personal experiences can be, I generally decide things for my children based on practicality. Practicality could include things like, in this culture everyone is circumcised so it's going to make him feel like a pariah (not true, but just an example). So I wanted to hear from other people who made this decision and what concrete factors actually ended up making a difference to their experience.

If he doesn't feel strongly and you don't feel strongly, why do it? I can tell you, he won't be alone. So many people are "intactivists" nowadays. It's all the rage! If you want him to look like his dad, that is a reason to do it. If you want to save him the pain, then don't.

[Anonymous]

Circumcision is extremely common these days among both Jews and non-Jews. I'm half Jewish (technically Jewish because my mother was, so my sons are also) and my husband is not so I'm obviously familiar with mixed marriages. That said, the level of antagonism you display about Jews makes me wonder if this isn't a bigger issue in your marriage / identity.

Bottom line is circumcision does not a Jew or non-Jew make.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm in a similar situation to yours, a non-Jew (raised Catholic) married to a Jewish man. My personal opinion is that you need to separate your feelings about Judaism generally from your feelings about circumcision, and then figure out how you feel about each of them independently. Right now, it sounds like you're preparing to use the circumcision decision as a battleground to fight about your husband's faith, and that's a really problematic way to a make a decision.

We decided to circumcise our son. If Judaism hadn't been a factor, I wouldn't have wanted to circumcise, but I respect circumcision's place in the Jewish faith and knew it was more important to my husband that he be circumcised than it was to me that he not be. I may have had an easier time coming to that decision, though, because my feelings on the Jewish faith are different than yours. Although I have not converted (and don't intend to, we are a happily interfaith family), I have found our Jewish community to be incredibly warm and welcoming to me and to our children. Perhaps trying a different temple with a focus might help you feel more at ease with welcoming Judaism into your family's life.

Yes, that's what I'm trying to do. Thanks. I do not want this to become a battleground, because frankly what makes me uneasy about Judaism and many other religions is the fact that it is a battleground for so many.

[Anonymous]

If your dh is not religious and especially if the kids are even considered to be Jewish since you're not- I see absolutely no reason why your kids need to circumcision.

Talk to your dh, maybe it's more that your dh wants his son to "look" like him down there. In which case, explain why that's not really a good enough reason to mutilate your child's body part.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Circumcision is extremely common these days among both Jews and non-Jews. I'm half Jewish (technically Jewish because my mother was, so my sons are also) and my husband is not so I'm obviously familiar with mixed marriages. That said, the level of antagonism you display about Jews makes me wonder if this isn't a bigger issue in your marriage / identity.

Bottom line is circumcision does not a Jew or non-Jew make.

And to clarify my sons are both circumcised and we did it in the hospital, not at a bris.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Circumcision is extremely common these days among both Jews and non-Jews. I'm half Jewish (technically Jewish because my mother was, so my sons are also) and my husband is not so I'm obviously familiar with mixed marriages. That said, the level of antagonism you display about Jews makes me wonder if this isn't a bigger issue in your marriage / identity.

Bottom line is circumcision does not a Jew or non-Jew make.

That's interesting. I don't think I had a feeling about Judaism one way or another, to be honest, until I married someone Jewish and realized what the religion's view is on shiksas, mixed marriages, etc. I would never have imagined that we would be prohibited from getting married in Israel, for example. That is what makes me feel uncomfortable about doing something with a symbolic value to others when I know they won't actually perceive it as such.