What is a Tiger Mom? If you are one how are you different from everyone else?

[Anonymous]

self-starter

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It is not that we expect all our children to become doctors, engineers, lawyers or investment bankers but when we hear school and college counselors tell children to pursue their "passion" I roll my eyes. I told my son it is all very well for the counselor to say he should pursue his "passion" but down the line when he has to find a job majoring in his "passion" may not enable him to find employment and the counselor who advised him to follow his "passion" will be out of the picture.

Whereas when he does get a job that he hates, the parents who made him get that job will still be in the picture. That's good, I guess.

Or maybe they won't. Resentment makes the heart grow sour.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:One of the fundamental differences between tiger parenting and the more conventional parenting is that the former believe children are not capable of mature decision making. We see this with issues like picking the college they would like to attend.

As a tiger parent I have steered and will continue to steer my children into the types of colleges that will enhance their prospects down the line. We also do the same with the majors they select in college and the professions they pursue.

It is not that we expect all our children to become doctors, engineers, lawyers or investment bankers but when we hear school and college counselors tell children to pursue their "passion" I roll my eyes. I told my son it is all very well for the counselor to say he should pursue his "passion" but down the line when he has to find a job majoring in his "passion" may not enable him to find employment and the counselor who advised him to follow his "passion" will be out of the picture.

I have seen discussions on this subject on other threads and there are parents - I am sure they are not tiger parents - who are totally in the counselor's camp about following one's passion.

Russian panda mom here, and "follow your passion" makes me cringe as well. If my child has an overwhelming passion for, say, art or theater, I would encourage them to pursue it as an extracurricular activity. If by the time they apply to college they become very good at it and still want to pursue it at the exclusion of everything else, we will brainstorm together on how to turn it into a career. (Architecture? Teaching?) But most people don't have such an overwhelming passion, and they'd be much better served asking themselves not "what's my passion? Oh, I dunno..." but "What am I good at that can be turned into a job?" I would still encourage my child to pursue diverse extracurriculars and take classes outside of their major, because I believe in being a well-rounded individual and having hobbies. A well-rounded, easy-going person won't fall apart if their job is not particularly fulfilling at the moment -- which, let's face it, most jobs aren't most of the time, even ones we chose because of a childhood passion.

[Anonymous]

Most of the tiger kids end up as dental hygienist anyway not like Indians who make CEOs of Microsoft ,Pepsi ,MasterCard etc

[Anonymous]

Passion at the age of 18 or 19 is not a basis for a career decision.

The greatest disservice a parent can do is to encourage a child to pursue a course of study where the prospects for employment especially in today's competitive market, are dismal. It is the reason why adult children end up living with their parents in many cases.

My Asian friend's daughter was offered admission at Julliard and at MIT; she was a brilliant young lady who was also a very talented violinist. She wanted to go to Julliard but her parents would not hear of it. She was seventeen years old.

She is now 26 years old, graduated from MIT and completed a Masters from Harvard. She is well employed. She is grateful to her parents today that they did the right thing not allowing her to go to Julliard although at the time it caused a lot of friction.

At a time when college costs $100K to $200K just to get an undergraduate degree, a passion has to be viewed as something to be pursued as a hobby unless the chances of employment are good. As the Russian panda mom said, there is nothing to prevent a student from pursuing his/her passion as a minor if it does not offer the prospects for employment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Passion at the age of 18 or 19 is not a basis for a career decision.

The greatest disservice a parent can do is to encourage a child to pursue a course of study where the prospects for employment especially in today's competitive market, are dismal. It is the reason why adult children end up living with their parents in many cases.

My Asian friend's daughter was offered admission at Julliard and at MIT; she was a brilliant young lady who was also a very talented violinist. She wanted to go to Julliard but her parents would not hear of it. She was seventeen years old.

She is now 26 years old, graduated from MIT and completed a Masters from Harvard. She is well employed. She is grateful to her parents today that they did the right thing not allowing her to go to Julliard although at the time it caused a lot of friction.

At a time when college costs $100K to $200K just to get an undergraduate degree, a passion has to be viewed as something to be pursued as a hobby unless the chances of employment are good. As the Russian panda mom said, there is nothing to prevent a student from pursuing his/her passion as a minor if it does not offer the prospects for employment.

If she had gone to Juilliard, she could still get a masters from Harvard. Juilliard is extremely prestigious, as is MIT. Neither one closes doors. It would be different if her choice was between MIT and a no-name tiny liberal arts college nobody has heard of.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Russian panda mom here, and "follow your passion" makes me cringe as well. If my child has an overwhelming passion for, say, art or theater, I would encourage them to pursue it as an extracurricular activity. If by the time they apply to college they become very good at it and still want to pursue it at the exclusion of everything else, we will brainstorm together on how to turn it into a career. (Architecture? Teaching?) But most people don't have such an overwhelming passion, and they'd be much better served asking themselves not "what's my passion? Oh, I dunno..." but "What am I good at that can be turned into a job?" I would still encourage my child to pursue diverse extracurriculars and take classes outside of their major, because I believe in being a well-rounded individual and having hobbies. A well-rounded, easy-going person won't fall apart if their job is not particularly fulfilling at the moment -- which, let's face it, most jobs aren't most of the time, even ones we chose because of a childhood passion.

I am not a "passion" fan either. But "What am I good at, and enjoy, that can be turned into a job?" is not at all the same as "You must become an electrical engineer, because electrical engineers have good jobs".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Russian panda mom here, and "follow your passion" makes me cringe as well. If my child has an overwhelming passion for, say, art or theater, I would encourage them to pursue it as an extracurricular activity. If by the time they apply to college they become very good at it and still want to pursue it at the exclusion of everything else, we will brainstorm together on how to turn it into a career. (Architecture? Teaching?) But most people don't have such an overwhelming passion, and they'd be much better served asking themselves not "what's my passion? Oh, I dunno..." but "What am I good at that can be turned into a job?" I would still encourage my child to pursue diverse extracurriculars and take classes outside of their major, because I believe in being a well-rounded individual and having hobbies. A well-rounded, easy-going person won't fall apart if their job is not particularly fulfilling at the moment -- which, let's face it, most jobs aren't most of the time, even ones we chose because of a childhood passion.

I am not a "passion" fan either. But "What am I good at, and enjoy, that can be turned into a job?" is not at all the same as "You must become an electrical engineer, because electrical engineers have good jobs".

I agree. That's where us panda moms are different from our more ... feline friends. If my child were choosing between a music education from Julliard and an engineering degree from MIT, we would have some conversations about what a hard life most professional musicians lead, even Julliard-educated ones, but ultimately it would be up to the kid. The thing is though, honestly, I have trouble imagining any product of a "panda" style of parenting, even a very self-motivated one, being so extraordinarily accomplished in both music and math by the time they finish high school that they'd have that kind of choice to make. But you know what? That's ok. Lots of small liberal arts colleges in this country where a smart and passionate kid can shine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Russian panda mom here, and "follow your passion" makes me cringe as well. If my child has an overwhelming passion for, say, art or theater, I would encourage them to pursue it as an extracurricular activity. If by the time they apply to college they become very good at it and still want to pursue it at the exclusion of everything else, we will brainstorm together on how to turn it into a career. (Architecture? Teaching?) But most people don't have such an overwhelming passion, and they'd be much better served asking themselves not "what's my passion? Oh, I dunno..." but "What am I good at that can be turned into a job?" I would still encourage my child to pursue diverse extracurriculars and take classes outside of their major, because I believe in being a well-rounded individual and having hobbies. A well-rounded, easy-going person won't fall apart if their job is not particularly fulfilling at the moment -- which, let's face it, most jobs aren't most of the time, even ones we chose because of a childhood passion.

I am not a "passion" fan either. But "What am I good at, and enjoy, that can be turned into a job?" is not at all the same as "You must become an electrical engineer, because electrical engineers have good jobs".

I agree. That's where us panda moms are different from our more ... feline friends. If my child were choosing between a music education from Julliard and an engineering degree from MIT, we would have some conversations about what a hard life most professional musicians lead, even Julliard-educated ones, but ultimately it would be up to the kid. The thing is though, honestly, I have trouble imagining any product of a "panda" style of parenting, even a very self-motivated one, being so extraordinarily accomplished in both music and math by the time they finish high school that they'd have that kind of choice to make. But you know what? That's ok. Lots of small liberal arts colleges in this country where a smart and passionate kid can shine.

The music gene and math gene seem related. I've known several people who are highly skilled at both. I'm skilled at neither, this is just an observation.

If my DC had a choice between Julliard and MIT I would not be at all disappointed if she chose Julliard. I don;t want to live in a world without musicians, talented musicians, if she's good enough to get into Julliard, she'll be fine from there.

[Anonymous]

It is rare with tiger parenting for children to be forced to pursue a major that they have no interest in.

If you really want to know how it works, it is a gradual process of directing them into certain fields from a very young age where there are good employment prospects. It is a barely perceptible process and they are channeled into areas of interest that they show some aptitude. The kids also socialize with a peer group that has similar motivations and a wish to succeed.

Have you ever noticed the number of Asians - including South Asians - who end up in the medical profession? Why do you think this happens? It is not some innate talent that they have. It is the result of this channeling that occurs from a very young age. Those who don't have the academic talent or proficiency to pursue medicine end up majoring in some other field that offers good employment prospects.

You will rarely hear an Asian parent tell their child to pursue his/her passion unless it is one that offers employment prospects down the line. From the standpoint of an Asian parent, the primary purpose in going into college is to attain the education to be well employed. I have seen discussions on DCUM where posters have argued for education for the sake of education where employment prospects are of secondary importance. This is a concept that would be almost alien to most tiger parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Russian panda mom here, and "follow your passion" makes me cringe as well. If my child has an overwhelming passion for, say, art or theater, I would encourage them to pursue it as an extracurricular activity. If by the time they apply to college they become very good at it and still want to pursue it at the exclusion of everything else, we will brainstorm together on how to turn it into a career. (Architecture? Teaching?) But most people don't have such an overwhelming passion, and they'd be much better served asking themselves not "what's my passion? Oh, I dunno..." but "What am I good at that can be turned into a job?" I would still encourage my child to pursue diverse extracurriculars and take classes outside of their major, because I believe in being a well-rounded individual and having hobbies. A well-rounded, easy-going person won't fall apart if their job is not particularly fulfilling at the moment -- which, let's face it, most jobs aren't most of the time, even ones we chose because of a childhood passion.

I am not a "passion" fan either. But "What am I good at, and enjoy, that can be turned into a job?" is not at all the same as "You must become an electrical engineer, because electrical engineers have good jobs".

I agree. That's where us panda moms are different from our more ... feline friends. If my child were choosing between a music education from Julliard and an engineering degree from MIT, we would have some conversations about what a hard life most professional musicians lead, even Julliard-educated ones, but ultimately it would be up to the kid. The thing is though, honestly, I have trouble imagining any product of a "panda" style of parenting, even a very self-motivated one, being so extraordinarily accomplished in both music and math by the time they finish high school that they'd have that kind of choice to make. But you know what? That's ok. Lots of small liberal arts colleges in this country where a smart and passionate kid can shine.

The music gene and math gene seem related. I've known several people who are highly skilled at both. I'm skilled at neither, this is just an observation.

If my DC had a choice between Julliard and MIT I would not be at all disappointed if she chose Julliard. I don;t want to live in a world without musicians, talented musicians, if she's good enough to get into Julliard, she'll be fine from there.

Coming from a family of mathematicians most of whom also play a musical instrument as a hobby, I agree with you about related genes. But to be an accomplished violinist at 18 requires hours of hard work every day from the time you are 5. Add to that all the advanced math coursework, participation in math and science olympiads, and so on, to impress MIT. I can't imagine many non-tiger-parents working their kid that hard, or very many kids choosing to work that hard on their own.

I love classical music and would not want to live in a world without professional classical musicians, so I volunteer for a couple of local arts organizations. And unfortunately there just aren't enough orchestra jobs for all Julliard graduates, and even those who manage to find a position barely make enough money to survive most of the time.

[Anonymous]

OP again. I was given no direction by my parents and was told that I could major in whatever I wanted. Many of my friend's parents felt similarly. Some of my friends who did very well in high school and followed their "passions" ended up working in jobs like retail, or as accounting clerks etc after obtaining their degrees from top 20 schools with majors like theater, sociology etc.

Tiger/panda moms, I think your approach is much more compassionate when you look long term at your child's life and it would be exactly the type of parenting advice I would expect to receive from my good Asian friends who I'm realizing must really be tiger/ panda moms even if they won't admit it.

[Anonymous]

What is a tiger mom? Someone who wants her kid to go to a name brand college. The rest is just baloney.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Coming from a family of mathematicians most of whom also play a musical instrument as a hobby, I agree with you about related genes. But to be an accomplished violinist at 18 requires hours of hard work every day from the time you are 5. Add to that all the advanced math coursework, participation in math and science olympiads, and so on, to impress MIT. I can't imagine many non-tiger-parents working their kid that hard, or very many kids choosing to work that hard on their own.
.

This is not entirely true. Not all accomplished classical musicians were tiger parented. My sister and I were not tiger parented and she is an employed and very accomplished classical musician. Anyway, from the moment her fingers first touched the piano keys at around age 6-7 she was in LOVE. Every day after school she'd head straight to the piano and "practice" (or just have fun inventing music) for hours and hours at a time. I remember once when she was about 12 she discovered my dad's video cassettes of Wagner's Ring Cycle and she spent the entire weekend watching it entranced. I don't think our parents, even once, reminded her to go and practice piano or the other instrument which she now plays professionally. She just loved it from the beginning and spend literally all her free time doing it as it was such a joy to her. I, on the other hand, never practiced the piano and my parents had to force me to play. Music is not my passion.

Now, as an adult, I'm actually jealous of my sister as she is the one person I know who truly loves every second of her job. It's her passion and it's what she was born to do. Not many people can say that. She doesn't make a lot of money but she's able to survive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It is rare with tiger parenting for children to be forced to pursue a major that they have no interest in.

If you really want to know how it works, it is a gradual process of directing them into certain fields from a very young age where there are good employment prospects. It is a barely perceptible process and they are channeled into areas of interest that they show some aptitude. The kids also socialize with a peer group that has similar motivations and a wish to succeed.

Have you ever noticed the number of Asians - including South Asians - who end up in the medical profession? Why do you think this happens? It is not some innate talent that they have. It is the result of this channeling that occurs from a very young age. Those who don't have the academic talent or proficiency to pursue medicine end up majoring in some other field that offers good employment prospects.

You will rarely hear an Asian parent tell their child to pursue his/her passion unless it is one that offers employment prospects down the line. From the standpoint of an Asian parent, the primary purpose in going into college is to attain the education to be well employed. I have seen discussions on DCUM where posters have argued for education for the sake of education where employment prospects are of secondary importance. This is a concept that would be almost alien to most tiger parents.

You make it sound so gentle. Maybe sometimes it is. Maybe this is how parents perceive it. I can think of one girl who told my daughter that her mother has already told her (in high school) where she must go to college and what she must major in. Her mother has chosen her profession. She has no interest in any of this but has been raised to just go along, and so she will. She is incapable of making any big decisions on her own. Perhaps she does have some aptitude for that particular area but she has been tutored in it since she was young so its hard to know. I know another man who hasn't spoken with his parents in 20 years because he had to break away from it. They have never met their grandchildren.

This does not strike me as benign.