Tension with Wife's Family over Finances

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why is your wife signing up for degrees that are low-paid? Usually when you're good enough, you can get a scholarship for a grad degree. You married someone who is not as smart/ambitious/capable as your side of the family. A mistake. It takes special skill to blow 200K on an OOS and end up with nothing. I also agree that instead of taking your frustrations out on the FIL, who seems a blue-collar guy who built himself up, you should look at your wife. Seems like a dud.

Getting a free ride for grad school entirely depends on the field/program.

As far as blowing $200k for OOS, the reality is that very few families pay the full pricetag for college. Many private schools are generous with need based aid, in all likelihood had she come from middle class family the expected family contribution might have been half as much. Still a lot of money of course.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are you Asian and your wife white?

I was thinking the same thing, just not WASP for the white wife.

I actually agree with the OP based on his updates. The FIL isn’t entitled to his SIL’s money. The FIL gave his daughter an informal loan supporting a bad choice to rack up hundreds of thousands in debt for a low paying field. Either the FIL a. isn’t a long term planner/bad with money, b.is controlling and always wanted something over his daughters head or c.wanted her to marry up and have her husbands family compensate him. The FIL is probably not happy his daughter married an Asian.

FIL is blue collar and doesn’t know how to handle money. He spends lavishly while trying to spend a cent on his kids education if he can get away with it.

I wouldn't make the assumption that successful blue-collar business owners "don't know how to handle money" - they are usually the millionaire (but that term is old, now they are the decamillionaire) next door. They are often much better at managing their money than UMC people who try to keep up with the Joneses. Their issue is that they are too tight and too obsessed with networth to share their money with their family, but they often die with a huge networth that eventually gets distributed to their kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is your wife signing up for degrees that are low-paid? Usually when you're good enough, you can get a scholarship for a grad degree. You married someone who is not as smart/ambitious/capable as your side of the family. A mistake. It takes special skill to blow 200K on an OOS and end up with nothing. I also agree that instead of taking your frustrations out on the FIL, who seems a blue-collar guy who built himself up, you should look at your wife. Seems like a dud.

People make bad decisions when they have a backstop. Perhaps Dad didn't want to waste money on a worthless degree, especially if he's blue-collar rich. He wanted utility, so he gave her a loan instead to make her feel like she had skin in the game and was making utilitarian choices about her degree. My dad is blue-collar rich and was happy to pay for law or medical school, but not a degree in French Literature. Maybe OP should have put his foot down, too? It sounds like she's wasting marital money on another useless degree. I could be wrong - it just sounds that way.

Gosh actually the more you guys put it this way, FIL sounds pretty spineless and wishy-washy. Instead of just telling DD No or telling her she was limited to whatever was in her college fund and nothing more, he invented this parent loan game BUT didn't do anything to formalize it. If you truly want your kids to have "skin in the game" you need to set it up upfront, not just hope they or their wealthy spouse will pay it back later. He got played.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, you have a point about the restaurant if he’s spending much more one what he orders. For the rest, you’re wrong. Loans are between you and your wife, but if she owes him that money, she should keep paying. For the trips, don’t go on trips you don’t want to spend so much money on, and tell in-laws the reason. Suggest a cheaper alternative.

Your notion that your family’s way is better and your in-laws should pay for your trips and meals is just your opinion. Would it nice? Sure. Maybe they think it would be nice for their daughter to treat them. Who knows. But families do things differently.

The restaurant thing is so easily solved. When you sit down, tell the waiter who is on your tab and who is on his tab. Don't split it equally. Happens all the time - the waiter can deal with it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

- He had her take out "loans" from him informally for college and a graduate degree. He was ticked off at me once I informed him the payments on these "loans" would come to an end once our marriage took place.

- He and my MIL invite us on very expensive vacations and then expect us to cover our own cost which can be in the tens of thousands of dollars for some of the trips he likes.

- Similar situation with restaurants. He will propose an expensive restaurant, order expensive items, and then want to split the check 50/50.

I cut down OP's post above to the examples.

OP, your FIL has a pay-as-you-go approach to life. He wants his kids to be responsible for their own choices but he is still generous enough to advance funds for your wife to do the schooling she wants to do.

You don't say if he has a sexist view of the world where a man/husband is responsible for his wife's money/debt/support but not the other way around. That may complicate things.

I agree that you do not have to pay your FIL for your wife's debts to him. Presumably she plans to work after getting the degree. And perhaps you are carrying the household expenses while she studies. Although maritally you may be jointly responsible for her debts legally, I think ethically she both undertook the obligation and should be prepared to pay it back. Have her settle the repayment plan on her parental loans with her parents and have the payments begin when she starts to earn money. Her dad wants to teach her responsibility. Marrying you so you could pay them off was not likely her plan. Have her figure it out.

Next the vacation. You and your wife should pay your own way if you go. If you do not want to go and do not want to pay, skip the vacation. Norms differ. Only some parents treat. Tell your FIL that your family of origin treats and you are not placing a priority on expensive vacations with your own money because you have x, y, z other goals. Let them get mad.

Restaurants. Split the check. It's another case of different norms. Neither party is more correct. Surely you can afford to socialize with them some of the time.

Your in-laws should be glad to have a son-in-law with zero debt. You should agree to do some things with them even if they aren't "worth it". Those are the concessions you make to be part of an in-law family. You cannot have everything your preferred way.

Sounds like your wife needs to step up her earning to stay in good grades with her family of origin. Encourage her to have a plan. If she decides to be an overexcited SAHM and wants to pay her dad back, you'd best get that hashed out ASAP.

OP here. The not paying the "loan" is a settled topic. There was no formal loan document. The "loan" was an absurd issue in my opinion. Due to her family's financial position she was a full pay student. She attended a private OOS school to the tune of over $200,000. The degree which she is currently pursuing (which I am paying for) is not a highly paid field and my wife will likely be doing a fair amount of charity work. I'm sorry, but the notion that her parents think its reasonable to try and saddle an 18 y/o with such a loan for a low paying degree at a private school is ridiculous and consequently they are the ones who paid after I came on the scene. This non-repayment though is such a miniscule percentage of their net worth that it did not make a difference in their circumstances.

Omg you’re the SIL from hell.

Your wife is stupid. If you have to take out loans, you go to a state school.

[Anonymous]

I would hate to have my husband involve himself in an agreement I had with my parent. Id want my DH to tell ME he wasn't going to pay it and then I'd deal with it as the adult I am.

You are amazingly rigid and self righteous. I'd hate for you to be my doctor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is your wife signing up for degrees that are low-paid? Usually when you're good enough, you can get a scholarship for a grad degree. You married someone who is not as smart/ambitious/capable as your side of the family. A mistake. It takes special skill to blow 200K on an OOS and end up with nothing. I also agree that instead of taking your frustrations out on the FIL, who seems a blue-collar guy who built himself up, you should look at your wife. Seems like a dud.

People make bad decisions when they have a backstop. Perhaps Dad didn't want to waste money on a worthless degree, especially if he's blue-collar rich. He wanted utility, so he gave her a loan instead to make her feel like she had skin in the game and was making utilitarian choices about her degree. My dad is blue-collar rich and was happy to pay for law or medical school, but not a degree in French Literature. Maybe OP should have put his foot down, too? It sounds like she's wasting marital money on another useless degree. I could be wrong - it just sounds that way.

Gosh actually the more you guys put it this way, FIL sounds pretty spineless and wishy-washy. Instead of just telling DD No or telling her she was limited to whatever was in her college fund and nothing more, he invented this parent loan game BUT didn't do anything to formalize it. If you truly want your kids to have "skin in the game" you need to set it up upfront, not just hope they or their wealthy spouse will pay it back later. He got played.

I'm the PP, and I agree with you. My parents sat us down and said, "we will pay for all of your schooling if you sell us on your course of study and you promise to excel." We actually had to present a kind of business proposal to them in high school with where we wanted to go to school and what minimum GPA we should be required to maintain.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

- He had her take out "loans" from him informally for college and a graduate degree. He was ticked off at me once I informed him the payments on these "loans" would come to an end once our marriage took place.

- He and my MIL invite us on very expensive vacations and then expect us to cover our own cost which can be in the tens of thousands of dollars for some of the trips he likes.

- Similar situation with restaurants. He will propose an expensive restaurant, order expensive items, and then want to split the check 50/50.

I cut down OP's post above to the examples.

OP, your FIL has a pay-as-you-go approach to life. He wants his kids to be responsible for their own choices but he is still generous enough to advance funds for your wife to do the schooling she wants to do.

You don't say if he has a sexist view of the world where a man/husband is responsible for his wife's money/debt/support but not the other way around. That may complicate things.

I agree that you do not have to pay your FIL for your wife's debts to him. Presumably she plans to work after getting the degree. And perhaps you are carrying the household expenses while she studies. Although maritally you may be jointly responsible for her debts legally, I think ethically she both undertook the obligation and should be prepared to pay it back. Have her settle the repayment plan on her parental loans with her parents and have the payments begin when she starts to earn money. Her dad wants to teach her responsibility. Marrying you so you could pay them off was not likely her plan. Have her figure it out.

Next the vacation. You and your wife should pay your own way if you go. If you do not want to go and do not want to pay, skip the vacation. Norms differ. Only some parents treat. Tell your FIL that your family of origin treats and you are not placing a priority on expensive vacations with your own money because you have x, y, z other goals. Let them get mad.

Restaurants. Split the check. It's another case of different norms. Neither party is more correct. Surely you can afford to socialize with them some of the time.

Your in-laws should be glad to have a son-in-law with zero debt. You should agree to do some things with them even if they aren't "worth it". Those are the concessions you make to be part of an in-law family. You cannot have everything your preferred way.

Sounds like your wife needs to step up her earning to stay in good grades with her family of origin. Encourage her to have a plan. If she decides to be an overexcited SAHM and wants to pay her dad back, you'd best get that hashed out ASAP.

OP here. The not paying the "loan" is a settled topic. There was no formal loan document. The "loan" was an absurd issue in my opinion. Due to her family's financial position she was a full pay student. She attended a private OOS school to the tune of over $200,000. The degree which she is currently pursuing (which I am paying for) is not a highly paid field and my wife will likely be doing a fair amount of charity work. I'm sorry, but the notion that her parents think its reasonable to try and saddle an 18 y/o with such a loan for a low paying degree at a private school is ridiculous and consequently they are the ones who paid after I came on the scene. This non-repayment though is such a miniscule percentage of their net worth that it did not make a difference in their circumstances.

Omg you’re the SIL from hell.

Your wife is stupid. If you have to take out loans, you go to a state school.

Or community college while living at home. In-state at UMD with room and board is still around $30k per year. Doesn't sound like dad would have fronted that without repayment either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

- He had her take out "loans" from him informally for college and a graduate degree. He was ticked off at me once I informed him the payments on these "loans" would come to an end once our marriage took place.

- He and my MIL invite us on very expensive vacations and then expect us to cover our own cost which can be in the tens of thousands of dollars for some of the trips he likes.

- Similar situation with restaurants. He will propose an expensive restaurant, order expensive items, and then want to split the check 50/50.

I cut down OP's post above to the examples.

OP, your FIL has a pay-as-you-go approach to life. He wants his kids to be responsible for their own choices but he is still generous enough to advance funds for your wife to do the schooling she wants to do.

You don't say if he has a sexist view of the world where a man/husband is responsible for his wife's money/debt/support but not the other way around. That may complicate things.

I agree that you do not have to pay your FIL for your wife's debts to him. Presumably she plans to work after getting the degree. And perhaps you are carrying the household expenses while she studies. Although maritally you may be jointly responsible for her debts legally, I think ethically she both undertook the obligation and should be prepared to pay it back. Have her settle the repayment plan on her parental loans with her parents and have the payments begin when she starts to earn money. Her dad wants to teach her responsibility. Marrying you so you could pay them off was not likely her plan. Have her figure it out.

Next the vacation. You and your wife should pay your own way if you go. If you do not want to go and do not want to pay, skip the vacation. Norms differ. Only some parents treat. Tell your FIL that your family of origin treats and you are not placing a priority on expensive vacations with your own money because you have x, y, z other goals. Let them get mad.

Restaurants. Split the check. It's another case of different norms. Neither party is more correct. Surely you can afford to socialize with them some of the time.

Your in-laws should be glad to have a son-in-law with zero debt. You should agree to do some things with them even if they aren't "worth it". Those are the concessions you make to be part of an in-law family. You cannot have everything your preferred way.

Sounds like your wife needs to step up her earning to stay in good grades with her family of origin. Encourage her to have a plan. If she decides to be an overexcited SAHM and wants to pay her dad back, you'd best get that hashed out ASAP.

OP here. The not paying the "loan" is a settled topic. There was no formal loan document. The "loan" was an absurd issue in my opinion. Due to her family's financial position she was a full pay student. She attended a private OOS school to the tune of over $200,000. The degree which she is currently pursuing (which I am paying for) is not a highly paid field and my wife will likely be doing a fair amount of charity work. I'm sorry, but the notion that her parents think its reasonable to try and saddle an 18 y/o with such a loan for a low paying degree at a private school is ridiculous and consequently they are the ones who paid after I came on the scene. This non-repayment though is such a miniscule percentage of their net worth that it did not make a difference in their circumstances.

Omg you’re the SIL from hell.

Your wife is stupid. If you have to take out loans, you go to a state school.

This. She went to a school she couldn't afford and doesn't work anyway so it wasn't an investment. It was just pissing money away.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Are you Asian and your wife white?

OP here. We are both white.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are you Asian and your wife white?

OP here. We are both white.

No, you're not. Nice try though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You told your father-in-law that your wife wouldn’t be paying back a family loan? No wonder he’s pissed.

OP here. She would not be paying it back with marital income. Since she is now back in school and not earning income that means that I would not be making payments on it with my income.

That’s not how debt works. Jesus, I would hate you too.

Meh. If the FIL wanted to be repaid like a bank then he should have set the loan up with formalities or just made his daughter take out actual loans. While I think in good conscience OP’s wife should try to pay something back, it also seems like the FIL is a cheapskate and possibly using the money to try to control his daughter. Possibly the FIL had no intention of ever collecting on the “loan” but is now acting like a bank that he has a rich son in law. And of course, one expects and hopes that a parent has more regard for the affordability of debt as compared to a shady payday lender …

Doesn’t sound like there’s an affordability issue, here.

[Anonymous]

I follow you, OP. What I'm hearing is:

(1) The school loan thing is settled - you were venting on here. I would be mad in your position, too.

(2) The restaurant issue is easily solvable going forward by asking for separate tabs.

(3) The family vacation thing is easily solvable going forward by declining trips that you feel are too expensive. No is a complete response. Let them complain and let it go.

Are you comfortable supporting your wife, or are you mad she's doing nonprofit work? If you're the only one making money, you hold all the cards over how it's spent. You pay the bills. You get to direct how you save or don't save your own money.

Are you mad that the in-laws aren't more charitable with their money? This is not a problem you can solve. It's their money, and they can do with it as they please. On this issue, you have to let it go. Assume nothing from them going forward. You can't change them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is your wife signing up for degrees that are low-paid? Usually when you're good enough, you can get a scholarship for a grad degree. You married someone who is not as smart/ambitious/capable as your side of the family. A mistake. It takes special skill to blow 200K on an OOS and end up with nothing. I also agree that instead of taking your frustrations out on the FIL, who seems a blue-collar guy who built himself up, you should look at your wife. Seems like a dud.

People make bad decisions when they have a backstop. Perhaps Dad didn't want to waste money on a worthless degree, especially if he's blue-collar rich. He wanted utility, so he gave her a loan instead to make her feel like she had skin in the game and was making utilitarian choices about her degree. My dad is blue-collar rich and was happy to pay for law or medical school, but not a degree in French Literature. Maybe OP should have put his foot down, too? It sounds like she's wasting marital money on another useless degree. I could be wrong - it just sounds that way.

Gosh actually the more you guys put it this way, FIL sounds pretty spineless and wishy-washy. Instead of just telling DD No or telling her she was limited to whatever was in her college fund and nothing more, he invented this parent loan game BUT didn't do anything to formalize it. If you truly want your kids to have "skin in the game" you need to set it up upfront, not just hope they or their wealthy spouse will pay it back later. He got played.

I'm one of the PPs and I agree. The FIL got played. So has the OP. By the DD/wife! The FIL is a blue-collar guy who doesn't know much about universities, so his DD came up with her wishes of having this fancy worthless degree from some OOS school. The FIL felt bad at saying no (most likely because the DD didn't qualify for any financial aid and he didn't know any better), so came up with this "loan". The FIL is a decent guy. Now the DD/wife is a snake. She got the money and ran with it. Now she got the OP to pay for her next degree and the OP is taking his frustrations out on the FIL. The OP is stupid. Got played by the wife who just spends time raking up worthless degrees. Watch her become SAHM once the kids come along! The decent thing to do is pay back the FIL one way or the other, either you have your wife find a job that pays enough to do that or pay for this from marital assets. Next time don't marry a stupid woman.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I follow you, OP. What I'm hearing is:

(1) The school loan thing is settled - you were venting on here. I would be mad in your position, too.

(2) The restaurant issue is easily solvable going forward by asking for separate tabs.

(3) The family vacation thing is easily solvable going forward by declining trips that you feel are too expensive. No is a complete response. Let them complain and let it go.

Are you comfortable supporting your wife, or are you mad she's doing nonprofit work? If you're the only one making money, you hold all the cards over how it's spent. You pay the bills. You get to direct how you save or don't save your own money.

Are you mad that the in-laws aren't more charitable with their money? This is not a problem you can solve. It's their money, and they can do with it as they please. On this issue, you have to let it go. Assume nothing from them going forward. You can't change them.

Only financially abusive marriages work this way.