I hate “guy trips”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A woman would be excoriated if she came home from a girls’ trip too hungover and exhausted to deal with the kids. Tell him to suck it up. The trip is fine. But when it is over, it is over.

Yes, this is the issue, I think. It’s not the 3 days. It’s that he makes it 10 days of nonparticipation without acknowledging it or getting spouse on board.

+1

Correct. A lot of PPs above (men who want their own guys' trips, I suspect) are ignoring the fact that the real problem isn't the trip itself, it's that he comes home and is a hungover mopey baby for days afterward, recovering because he can't drink like an adult when he's away.

OP, I'd schedule utterly un-cancel-able things for which he has to be responsible so he has to suck it up and take a kid to, say, the dentist at 8 a.m. on that first morning back because YOU are busy. I'd have stuff of my own scheduled so he has to be the one getting the kids up and off to school. And I wouldn't be passive-aggressive about it -- I'd tell him point blank that family life goes on whether he's hung over and grumpy or not, and if he can't drink like a grown-up, that's his issue to figure out, not his issue to bring home with him.

I often wonder if people like you are actually married or, if so, happily. Who schedules an 8 am dentist appointment for the kid the day after their spouse returns from a weekend away just to stick it to them?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DH goes on one, sometimes two, guy trips a year. Usually just a long weekend. I hate them. They all go and act like they are 21 again and drink way to much, stay up too late and come home feeling hungover and exhausted for the next week.

Meanwhile I am stuck 24/7 taking care of the kids and running the house while he is gone. Then when he gets home he can barely help because he is so tired and he is so behind on work from taking the long weekend off.

I completely know he deserves time to decompress and relax and reconnecting with his friends is very important. I am so glad he still has friends and is close with them! I just dislike these trips.

Let me guess. He also works full time and pays for everything while you stay at home? And you can't give him TWO WEEKENDS A FREAKING YEAR to relax? Who is the unreasonable one...

OP - I have not responded to every comment but will respond to this one. I too work full time and make decent money (although he makes more than me by quite a bit). I provide our family with health insurance, have a healthy pension AND am the full time default parent for 3 young kids.

Your set up sounds pretty stupid, you ought to fix that.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Op - what frustrates me is that I am 100% the default parent. I typically do all the drop offs, pick ups, make food, do laundry etc.

But I expect him to help around the house with the kids. Instead he is sleeping until 7:30 (on a week day!) and now will rush to get ready to work and be all stressed because he has so much work to do.

I have been up since 6:30 getting myself ready, lunches, dealing with the dog, getting breakfast and all the kid stuff so they are on time for school.

If you're 100% the default parent, then are you doing anything extra on these mornings? If you are I think you should talk to him about that, but if your day looks no different I don't think it's reasonable to be upset about what he's doing/how stressed he is, because it's not actually affecting you materially.

My wife sleeping to 7:30 while I feed the cat, make lunches, and do school drop off is every morning of my life and it has never occurred to me to be angry at her for sleeping rather than getting up and going to work; I do the same amount of work regardless. I'm fine with the arrangement of responsibilities, which is what matters, not what she's doing with time that I'm doing kid stuff.

Do you know what “default parent” means?

DP it’s a phrase invented by disgruntled women who overestimate their role in their children’s life and are dismissive of the role their partners play, usually a circumstance that is self-inflicted by excessive hectoring, criticism, and micromanagement.

Tell me you’re a lazy parent without telling me you’re a lazy parent.

More original thinking from the “default parent” cliche user. Prattling on about laziness, ironically enough.

from the OP it seems the DH works 60-80 hours per week including nights and weekends. I would also assume his busy schedule does not allow for him to cover sick days or school closures but OP can correct me if wrong. There are 168 hours in a week. 80 means he is working 50% of the available hours of the week. 6 hours of sleep means 42 hours. An hour to get ready and commute in the morning plus min 30 commute home= 7.5 hours minimum, if he is not commuting into work on weekends. So just with working, sleeping minimum suggested amount, and commuting he takes 130 hours per week leaving 38 hours spread over 7 days is 5.5 hours to eat, workout, spend time with your family/spouse, run errands, cook dinners, etc.

On working hours alone, OP has 40 more hours per week to dedicate to her family and home. So yes she is the default parent, default cleaner, default sports driver, default grocery shopper, default sick day coverer.

as far as salary goes, OP DH better be making 2x the amount of money minimum.

Op - yes you pretty much have it spot on.

And yes he makes about 3.5-4 times what I make.

So the guy works 50-10% more than you and makes 350-400% more than you, and two weeks of inconvenience per year is causing you to build up resentment and might result in a serious talk about his behavior? How selfish. That sounds really spoiled.

As someone with a spouse who works a lot, I really hate this attitude. Just because my husband makes a ton of money doesn't mean he gets to have more rest than I do.

But OP's husband works a lot more than she does, and most likely at a more stressful job (stress tends to come with higher hours and pay, though not always).

If she's default parent for three young kids, he doesn't work more than she does. He works *for pay* more than she does. They should both have equivalent downtime, which she's not getting in the week after his guys' trip because he's working even more at his job, and even less around the house, after doing nothing for either while gone. So yes, she does get to complain. How much she should complain I think comes down to what kind of partner/father he is the other 50 weeks out of the year, but this persistent DCUM trope that if a guy earns enough money he is entitled to treat his family like servants is gross.

Sorry, if you think that working at a 40 hour/wk job and being default parent for three school aged kids is the same amount of work and stress as working 60-80 hours a week at a high-paying (and likely high stress) job, then you have no idea what it's like to actually work a job like that.

And again, it is two weeks out of a year.

I worked in BigLaw for 12 years. I know what 80 hours at the low end feels like, and I still recognize that a full-time job and essentially single-parenting 3 (!!) kids is work. Something tells me you have no idea what either side of the coin is actually like, you just like to devalue women's work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think a lot of you guys are missing that he’s also getting behind at work from these trips. My husband works a ton and works most weekends. Even 4 days visiting family he has to work or he’s stressed out and annoying for a week or more after. If he was gone drinking for 4 days and came back complaining about all the work he was behind on I would find that very annoying. I 100 percent believe that he’s unhelpful and difficult to be around for quite a few days after.

I think he’s entitled to see his friends but he’s not entitled to minimize how it affects you. I don’t have concrete suggestions about what to do (although I personally would just rather have my house in a hotel for an extra day rather than listening to any complaining - I actually encourage my husband to do similar things when he’s traveling for work) but I understand, OP. I feel these situations really emphasize to me how tightly stretched we are all the time and I wish my husband would agree and be open to making changes. But when you handle all the fall out (which I would rather do than make my kids handle it because when my husband is stressed he yells more than I’m ok with) and they refuse to change it’s very hard.

I'm sorry, but if your husband is working a ton and working most weekends, then he better be making a ton of money. In that case, stay home, hire help, and then don't complain that he doesn't help out around the house. If you don't want him making so much money, then suggest he scale back so you can also work. Personally, I wouldn't be married to someone who worked a ton and worked most weekends, but you do you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You don't hate guy trips you hate that your husband thinks he can opt out of being a dad for a week once home. He's not sick a hangover isn't sick.

This. My DH has never done a trip like this. Not once in decades of marriage. This needs to be discussed. Immature behavior on his part? Anger at you DW and wanting to escape? This isn't normal in a happy marriage of two mature adults

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think a lot of you guys are missing that he’s also getting behind at work from these trips. My husband works a ton and works most weekends. Even 4 days visiting family he has to work or he’s stressed out and annoying for a week or more after. If he was gone drinking for 4 days and came back complaining about all the work he was behind on I would find that very annoying. I 100 percent believe that he’s unhelpful and difficult to be around for quite a few days after.

I think he’s entitled to see his friends but he’s not entitled to minimize how it affects you. I don’t have concrete suggestions about what to do (although I personally would just rather have my house in a hotel for an extra day rather than listening to any complaining - I actually encourage my husband to do similar things when he’s traveling for work) but I understand, OP. I feel these situations really emphasize to me how tightly stretched we are all the time and I wish my husband would agree and be open to making changes. But when you handle all the fall out (which I would rather do than make my kids handle it because when my husband is stressed he yells more than I’m ok with) and they refuse to change it’s very hard.

OP - I feel heard and seen with this post. This is exactly the problem with my DH. He too works 60-80 hours a week, including the weekends. When he takes time away its always a HUGE problem. He took a few calls while we was gone on his trip but obviously did not work his normal hours while gone.

So he scales back or you quit working. Your issues aren't with the weekend away...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think a lot of you guys are missing that he’s also getting behind at work from these trips. My husband works a ton and works most weekends. Even 4 days visiting family he has to work or he’s stressed out and annoying for a week or more after. If he was gone drinking for 4 days and came back complaining about all the work he was behind on I would find that very annoying. I 100 percent believe that he’s unhelpful and difficult to be around for quite a few days after.

I think he’s entitled to see his friends but he’s not entitled to minimize how it affects you. I don’t have concrete suggestions about what to do (although I personally would just rather have my house in a hotel for an extra day rather than listening to any complaining - I actually encourage my husband to do similar things when he’s traveling for work) but I understand, OP. I feel these situations really emphasize to me how tightly stretched we are all the time and I wish my husband would agree and be open to making changes. But when you handle all the fall out (which I would rather do than make my kids handle it because when my husband is stressed he yells more than I’m ok with) and they refuse to change it’s very hard.

OP - I feel heard and seen with this post. This is exactly the problem with my DH. He too works 60-80 hours a week, including the weekends. When he takes time away its always a HUGE problem. He took a few calls while we was gone on his trip but obviously did not work his normal hours while gone.

Do you have a job, OP? Or are you just a homemaker/kept woman? If the latter, you don't get to have this attitude. He works hard to provide for you and the children and deserves to blow off some steam.

OP - as I have said in a previous post I work full time. My job provides our families health insurance and a healthy pension. I make less than DH but my income is a big contribution to our family.

*Our family's health insurance*

So then:
(1) Use some of the money your husband makes to hire help so you're not doing everything at home
(2) Have him work fewer hours, even if it means less pay
(3) Divorce him (DCUM's favorite response) and make him figure out the childcare when he has them

[Anonymous]

Time to put an end to those trips.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:A woman would be excoriated if she came home from a girls’ trip too hungover and exhausted to deal with the kids. Tell him to suck it up. The trip is fine. But when it is over, it is over.

Yes, this is the issue, I think. It’s not the 3 days. It’s that he makes it 10 days of nonparticipation without acknowledging it or getting spouse on board.

+1

Correct. A lot of PPs above (men who want their own guys' trips, I suspect) are ignoring the fact that the real problem isn't the trip itself, it's that he comes home and is a hungover mopey baby for days afterward, recovering because he can't drink like an adult when he's away.

OP, I'd schedule utterly un-cancel-able things for which he has to be responsible so he has to suck it up and take a kid to, say, the dentist at 8 a.m. on that first morning back because YOU are busy. I'd have stuff of my own scheduled so he has to be the one getting the kids up and off to school. And I wouldn't be passive-aggressive about it -- I'd tell him point blank that family life goes on whether he's hung over and grumpy or not, and if he can't drink like a grown-up, that's his issue to figure out, not his issue to bring home with him.

I often wonder if people like you are actually married or, if so, happily. Who schedules an 8 am dentist appointment for the kid the day after their spouse returns from a weekend away just to stick it to them?

DP - I agree. On top of that, the lack of self awareness of the previous PP is pretty stunning. She proclaims that she "wouldn't be passive-aggressive" about it, but also says that she would "schedule utterly un-cancel-able things for which he has to be responsible so he has to suck it up and take a kid to, say, the dentist at 8 a.m. on that first morning back because YOU are busy. I'd have stuff of my own scheduled so he has to be the one getting the kids up and off to school."

That is the definition of passive-aggressive.

[Anonymous]

A normal amount of work is 40-60 hours total for the whole family, plus homemaking. If you work more than that, you pay someone to make your home.

Unless you are poor. I'm that case, I empathize, eat the rich, but in the meantime, live with extended family, and don't go on weeklong benders.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A woman would be excoriated if she came home from a girls’ trip too hungover and exhausted to deal with the kids. Tell him to suck it up. The trip is fine. But when it is over, it is over.

Yes, this is the issue, I think. It’s not the 3 days. It’s that he makes it 10 days of nonparticipation without acknowledging it or getting spouse on board.

+1

Correct. A lot of PPs above (men who want their own guys' trips, I suspect) are ignoring the fact that the real problem isn't the trip itself, it's that he comes home and is a hungover mopey baby for days afterward, recovering because he can't drink like an adult when he's away.

OP, I'd schedule utterly un-cancel-able things for which he has to be responsible so he has to suck it up and take a kid to, say, the dentist at 8 a.m. on that first morning back because YOU are busy. I'd have stuff of my own scheduled so he has to be the one getting the kids up and off to school. And I wouldn't be passive-aggressive about it -- I'd tell him point blank that family life goes on whether he's hung over and grumpy or not, and if he can't drink like a grown-up, that's his issue to figure out, not his issue to bring home with him.

I often wonder if people like you are actually married or, if so, happily. Who schedules an 8 am dentist appointment for the kid the day after their spouse returns from a weekend away just to stick it to them?

DP - I agree. On top of that, the lack of self awareness of the previous PP is pretty stunning. She proclaims that she "wouldn't be passive-aggressive" about it, but also says that she would "schedule utterly un-cancel-able things for which he has to be responsible so he has to suck it up and take a kid to, say, the dentist at 8 a.m. on that first morning back because YOU are busy. I'd have stuff of my own scheduled so he has to be the one getting the kids up and off to school."

That is the definition of passive-aggressive.

So true

[Anonymous]

If your DH is making so much money OP, I would hire a sitter to help out while he is gone and when he first gets back. And I would be totally unapologetic about hiring as much help as needed so I’m not burnt out while he is gone.

We make less than you I’m sure (about 300k with 3 kids) and we always schedule a sitter while one of us is traveling so the other person can have a half day to themself over the weekend to go work out, read at a coffee shop, or whatever plus any help needed to get kids shuttled places. Neither one of us should be stretched thin just because the other went on a trip.

Would you feel less angry if you build in time for yourself and extra help while he is gone/catching up on work?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Op - what frustrates me is that I am 100% the default parent. I typically do all the drop offs, pick ups, make food, do laundry etc.

But I expect him to help around the house with the kids. Instead he is sleeping until 7:30 (on a week day!) and now will rush to get ready to work and be all stressed because he has so much work to do.

I have been up since 6:30 getting myself ready, lunches, dealing with the dog, getting breakfast and all the kid stuff so they are on time for school.

If you're 100% the default parent, then are you doing anything extra on these mornings? If you are I think you should talk to him about that, but if your day looks no different I don't think it's reasonable to be upset about what he's doing/how stressed he is, because it's not actually affecting you materially.

My wife sleeping to 7:30 while I feed the cat, make lunches, and do school drop off is every morning of my life and it has never occurred to me to be angry at her for sleeping rather than getting up and going to work; I do the same amount of work regardless. I'm fine with the arrangement of responsibilities, which is what matters, not what she's doing with time that I'm doing kid stuff.

Do you know what “default parent” means?

DP it’s a phrase invented by disgruntled women who overestimate their role in their children’s life and are dismissive of the role their partners play, usually a circumstance that is self-inflicted by excessive hectoring, criticism, and micromanagement.

Tell me you’re a lazy parent without telling me you’re a lazy parent.

More original thinking from the “default parent” cliche user. Prattling on about laziness, ironically enough.

from the OP it seems the DH works 60-80 hours per week including nights and weekends. I would also assume his busy schedule does not allow for him to cover sick days or school closures but OP can correct me if wrong. There are 168 hours in a week. 80 means he is working 50% of the available hours of the week. 6 hours of sleep means 42 hours. An hour to get ready and commute in the morning plus min 30 commute home= 7.5 hours minimum, if he is not commuting into work on weekends. So just with working, sleeping minimum suggested amount, and commuting he takes 130 hours per week leaving 38 hours spread over 7 days is 5.5 hours to eat, workout, spend time with your family/spouse, run errands, cook dinners, etc.

On working hours alone, OP has 40 more hours per week to dedicate to her family and home. So yes she is the default parent, default cleaner, default sports driver, default grocery shopper, default sick day coverer.

as far as salary goes, OP DH better be making 2x the amount of money minimum.

Op - yes you pretty much have it spot on.

And yes he makes about 3.5-4 times what I make.

So the guy works 50-10% more than you and makes 350-400% more than you, and two weeks of inconvenience per year is causing you to build up resentment and might result in a serious talk about his behavior? How selfish. That sounds really spoiled.

As someone with a spouse who works a lot, I really hate this attitude. Just because my husband makes a ton of money doesn't mean he gets to have more rest than I do.

But OP's husband works a lot more than she does, and most likely at a more stressful job (stress tends to come with higher hours and pay, though not always).

If she's default parent for three young kids, he doesn't work more than she does. He works *for pay* more than she does. They should both have equivalent downtime, which she's not getting in the week after his guys' trip because he's working even more at his job, and even less around the house, after doing nothing for either while gone. So yes, she does get to complain. How much she should complain I think comes down to what kind of partner/father he is the other 50 weeks out of the year, but this persistent DCUM trope that if a guy earns enough money he is entitled to treat his family like servants is gross.

Sorry, if you think that working at a 40 hour/wk job and being default parent for three school aged kids is the same amount of work and stress as working 60-80 hours a week at a high-paying (and likely high stress) job, then you have no idea what it's like to actually work a job like that.

And again, it is two weeks out of a year.

I worked in BigLaw for 12 years. I know what 80 hours at the low end feels like, and I still recognize that a full-time job and essentially single-parenting 3 (!!) kids is work. Something tells me you have no idea what either side of the coin is actually like, you just like to devalue women's work.

I've been a very busy commercial litigator for 20 years, and I took 3 years in a govt job (that was still pretty busy) when my three kids were little. I notice that you don't even say that they are equal amounts of work--just that having a 40 hour a week job and parenting is work. No kidding it's work. I get that both are busy. But there is no comparison in stress and busy-ness. Being a busy lawyer who makes a lot of money (as I do) is way more stressful and time consuming. And people who haven't worked like that just don't understand it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think a lot of you guys are missing that he’s also getting behind at work from these trips. My husband works a ton and works most weekends. Even 4 days visiting family he has to work or he’s stressed out and annoying for a week or more after. If he was gone drinking for 4 days and came back complaining about all the work he was behind on I would find that very annoying. I 100 percent believe that he’s unhelpful and difficult to be around for quite a few days after.

I think he’s entitled to see his friends but he’s not entitled to minimize how it affects you. I don’t have concrete suggestions about what to do (although I personally would just rather have my house in a hotel for an extra day rather than listening to any complaining - I actually encourage my husband to do similar things when he’s traveling for work) but I understand, OP. I feel these situations really emphasize to me how tightly stretched we are all the time and I wish my husband would agree and be open to making changes. But when you handle all the fall out (which I would rather do than make my kids handle it because when my husband is stressed he yells more than I’m ok with) and they refuse to change it’s very hard.

I'm sorry, but if your husband is working a ton and working most weekends, then he better be making a ton of money. In that case, stay home, hire help, and then don't complain that he doesn't help out around the house. If you don't want him making so much money, then suggest he scale back so you can also work. Personally, I wouldn't be married to someone who worked a ton and worked most weekends, but you do you.

I’m the PP you are responding to. I can’t speak for OP but I don’t want to be married to someone who works these hours and especially someone who is this stressed all the time. I love my husband and hate seeing him stressed because I know it’s unpleasant for him too separate from the impact on our family. But the reality is this is the person I’m married to and have children with and while I have asked him over and over to look into other jobs even with considerably lower salaries I can’t make him take one. He took a step back for a brief time and hated the loss of prestige- for him that is the driver not the money.

I could quit my job and be 100 percent on the clock at home and absolve my husband of any responsibility at all. My husband would not support it and has been incredibly vocal about not being the only person supporting the family. But I don’t think he’d divorce me if I did it. Maybe we will reach a breaking point and I’ll do it one of these days. In the meantime my work is incredibly supportive and wonderful and I have zero friends who are SAHMs. My kids are old enough now that the couple I knew are going back to work.

But none of that would give me what I actually want- a spouse who is happy and has a relationship with the kids that’s not at the mercy of what happened with their work that day. So I do the best I can.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think a lot of you guys are missing that he’s also getting behind at work from these trips. My husband works a ton and works most weekends. Even 4 days visiting family he has to work or he’s stressed out and annoying for a week or more after. If he was gone drinking for 4 days and came back complaining about all the work he was behind on I would find that very annoying. I 100 percent believe that he’s unhelpful and difficult to be around for quite a few days after.

I think he’s entitled to see his friends but he’s not entitled to minimize how it affects you. I don’t have concrete suggestions about what to do (although I personally would just rather have my house in a hotel for an extra day rather than listening to any complaining - I actually encourage my husband to do similar things when he’s traveling for work) but I understand, OP. I feel these situations really emphasize to me how tightly stretched we are all the time and I wish my husband would agree and be open to making changes. But when you handle all the fall out (which I would rather do than make my kids handle it because when my husband is stressed he yells more than I’m ok with) and they refuse to change it’s very hard.

I'm sorry, but if your husband is working a ton and working most weekends, then he better be making a ton of money. In that case, stay home, hire help, and then don't complain that he doesn't help out around the house. If you don't want him making so much money, then suggest he scale back so you can also work. Personally, I wouldn't be married to someone who worked a ton and worked most weekends, but you do you.

I’m the PP you are responding to. I can’t speak for OP but I don’t want to be married to someone who works these hours and especially someone who is this stressed all the time. I love my husband and hate seeing him stressed because I know it’s unpleasant for him too separate from the impact on our family. But the reality is this is the person I’m married to and have children with and while I have asked him over and over to look into other jobs even with considerably lower salaries I can’t make him take one. He took a step back for a brief time and hated the loss of prestige- for him that is the driver not the money.

I could quit my job and be 100 percent on the clock at home and absolve my husband of any responsibility at all. My husband would not support it and has been incredibly vocal about not being the only person supporting the family. But I don’t think he’d divorce me if I did it. Maybe we will reach a breaking point and I’ll do it one of these days. In the meantime my work is incredibly supportive and wonderful and I have zero friends who are SAHMs. My kids are old enough now that the couple I knew are going back to work.

But none of that would give me what I actually want- a spouse who is happy and has a relationship with the kids that’s not at the mercy of what happened with their work that day. So I do the best I can.

so the sum of all this is that he gets everything he wants and values ....