Realistic expectations on sex?

[Anonymous]

I think she needs an escape. Take her on vacation. A real one, not too much sightseeing. Eat good food, drink wine, visit a spa. Pure luxury and pampering. Tell her she’s gorgeous.

I thought my libido died post kids and I also resented my XH. We never had romance (not even engagement or wedding or anniversaries or holidays). My libido lit up and I’m having the best sex of my life at 41. I feel loved, beautiful, appreciated, admired, worthy. My body issues are going down - and I am slim and pretty, I imagine most middle age women may have even more body issues than me.

I don’t know how men expect women to feel sexy when they are in their typical environments - it’s not sexy to be parenting kids, dealing with work and home chores.

[Anonymous]

[img]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DW’s drive cratered upon having kids, for a bunch of reasons anyone who reads this board is familiar with.

Kids are older now, life is less crazy, we are in better physical and financial shape, our relationship is healthier, so some sex life has come back, mercifully.

I have to initiate 100% of the time. If I do, I’ll very often meet some initial tensing up and reluctance, but she will melt, get into it, and enjoy. Sometimes she’ll say no, which is of course cool and normal. Again, if I initiate and keep sex at the forefront, we could have sex 4-5 times a month, which is waaaaaay more than before.

Do I have a right to feel sad that she never, ever, ever, ever initiates, and hasn’t for a decade? If I don’t initiate, we could not have sex for months. She chalks it up to lack of bandwidth and being tired, but then again she seems to find bandwidth to get a puppy and binge watch Netflix occasionally and do other things. I am trying to sort through my feelings and ask myself whether I am asking too much, or whether my feelings are valid. We’re in early to mid 40s.

I am genuinely asking for insight from women and have no interest in bad-mouthing my wife (I love her dearly) or sharing sexual details that I don’t want to or will get this thread removed. Ty.

My wife would tell you that it's the man's job to be the initiator.

I’m a woman (and I come from a pretty traditional/repressed background) and even I don’t think that! Particularly in marriage. Curious on why she thinks that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think there are at least five levels to how women of a cetain age (forties and early fifties) approach intimacy with their husbands.
1) Ugh, do I have to? -- this is super painful to most husbands.
2) Sure, I will play the game a couple of times per month. -- husbands who live with this situation know they are being taken somewhat seriously, but they usually want more enthusiasm.
3) Yeah okay, I get that you have physical and emotional needs, so I will rev up the engines weekly and sometimes more. -- this is probably where OP sits, and the mistake by the wife is that she thinks it is sufficiently satisfying her husband's emotional needs without initiating. Going along and liking it is nice, but it doesn't make him feel like a lion. Sometimes men want to feel like lions.
4) Let's do it a few times per week, and I might not flat-out initiate, but I will act coy, dress to impress, point out when the kids will be at sleepovers, lock the door in the morning before everyone wakes up, etc. -- this is as much as men can expect, and the behavior of the wife signals to her husband that she's still attracted to him and wants their marriage to be more than running a family.
5) Take me whenever, and watch out because I am going to jump your bones as often as you will. -- nirvana for husbands because they are being treated like lions from the woman they love.

OP seems like he wants to go from #3 to #4, and who can blame him? If his wife never initiates, he's going to question how she feels about him. It is human nature.

Maybe there is just a different definition of initiation? DH and I both think locking the door is initiation.

+1.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think she needs an escape. Take her on vacation. A real one, not too much sightseeing. Eat good food, drink wine, visit a spa. Pure luxury and pampering. Tell her she’s gorgeous.

I thought my libido died post kids and I also resented my XH. We never had romance (not even engagement or wedding or anniversaries or holidays). My libido lit up and I’m having the best sex of my life at 41. I feel loved, beautiful, appreciated, admired, worthy. My body issues are going down - and I am slim and pretty, I imagine most middle age women may have even more body issues than me.

I don’t know how men expect women to feel sexy when they are in their typical environments - it’s not sexy to be parenting kids, dealing with work and home chores.

After a day like you describe when my husband gets home and says hi gorgeous, gives me a big hug and a kiss I often feel as though the fire has been lit even if I look like hell. I certainly didn’t feel sexy before but he has a way of making things happen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think she needs an escape. Take her on vacation. A real one, not too much sightseeing. Eat good food, drink wine, visit a spa. Pure luxury and pampering. Tell her she’s gorgeous.

I thought my libido died post kids and I also resented my XH. We never had romance (not even engagement or wedding or anniversaries or holidays). My libido lit up and I’m having the best sex of my life at 41. I feel loved, beautiful, appreciated, admired, worthy. My body issues are going down - and I am slim and pretty, I imagine most middle age women may have even more body issues than me.

I don’t know how men expect women to feel sexy when they are in their typical environments - it’s not sexy to be parenting kids, dealing with work and home chores.

After a day like you describe when my husband gets home and says hi gorgeous, gives me a big hug and a kiss I often feel as though the fire has been lit even if I look like hell. I certainly didn’t feel sexy before but he has a way of making things happen.

Am I reading right that your libido tanked with your ex-husband and now that you're not with him (and presumably with someone new) your libido lit up? First of all, good for you! Seriously. But, second of all, the things that stoke libido in a new(ish) relationship really aren't comparable to what will work in a long term relationship. Hormones just hit differently in those different situations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think she needs an escape. Take her on vacation. A real one, not too much sightseeing. Eat good food, drink wine, visit a spa. Pure luxury and pampering. Tell her she’s gorgeous.

I thought my libido died post kids and I also resented my XH. We never had romance (not even engagement or wedding or anniversaries or holidays). My libido lit up and I’m having the best sex of my life at 41. I feel loved, beautiful, appreciated, admired, worthy. My body issues are going down - and I am slim and pretty, I imagine most middle age women may have even more body issues than me.

I don’t know how men expect women to feel sexy when they are in their typical environments - it’s not sexy to be parenting kids, dealing with work and home chores.

(Repost - I responded to the wrong comment initially):

Am I reading right that your libido tanked with your ex-husband and now that you're not with him (and presumably with someone new) your libido lit up? First of all, good for you! Seriously. But, second of all, the things that stoke libido in a new(ish) relationship really aren't comparable to what will work in a long term relationship. Hormones just hit differently in those different situations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. She reaches O essentially 100% percent of the time, though basically never through PIV. That is some combo of her physiology and mine. That was an issue earlier on in relationship, but post-kids (body changes) she seems to prefer sex other than PIV anyway. That’s as far as I can go on details, both for my own comfort and to not get this thread removed.

Are you certain? I communicated with my husband that I wasn't and he kept thinking I was, even after I asked him to do b instead of a. He always did the same things that were not what got me going...

Also, what is her love language? Do more of that. Help with the kids, clean up or hire a cleaner, compliment her, thank her, do at least 50% of the household work.

What does she need? Has she told you? Do it. Give her a nice massage, buy some oil, light some candles, etc. That usually gets me in the mood. I will say, "can you give me a massage later?" and if he says yes, then we are down for sex, if no, then no sex. It helps me to relax after a busy day.

Have you ever said or done anything in the past that wasn't kind? After I had kids my husband commented on my body. I go to the gym/ pilates almost daily again and am more confident, but I still think about the comments sometimes. It hurt our emotional connection, which I need to be intimate now that I am older. And yes, in therapy to work on all this.

Did she ever initiate and you declined? When I was pregnant the hormones were roaring, but once I was showing I basically had to beg him to do it (look above for the reason why). I initiated daily when pregnant and can count on one hand how many times once I was showing.

Do you do other things? Hold her hand, kiss her (without sex). I can't remember the last time my husband kissed me on the lips (even during sex). He says he doesn't like it anymore, but I need that connection (and yes my breath is fine).I have tried to kiss him and he always moves his face so I kiss his cheek or will give me a peck and be done. But I miss making out.

Date nights/ solo trips. Have you taken any of those? Can you have family watch the kids for a couple nights and you go somewhere? Plan fun things. We did this twice. One trip was great, the other was great, but I initiated sex both times. He declined on second trip, but we had awesome sex on trip 1. Did it in morning because we were exhausted by the day. My in-laws visited and watched the kids. We have neighbors and we had their kids over one full day and they took ours one evening for a movie night. Hire babysitters. We were tired at night, so hired someone on Sunday afternoons. We all joined a gym that has parents night out evenings so can drop kids off from 5-8.

I would LOVE to have more sex, but I want to be appreciated, respected, loved, and have my needs met. As I grow older I need these things in order to be intimate with someone, otherwise it isn't worth it to me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. She reaches O essentially 100% percent of the time, though basically never through PIV. That is some combo of her physiology and mine. That was an issue earlier on in relationship, but post-kids (body changes) she seems to prefer sex other than PIV anyway. That’s as far as I can go on details, both for my own comfort and to not get this thread removed.

Are you certain? I communicated with my husband that I wasn't and he kept thinking I was, even after I asked him to do b instead of a. He always did the same things that were not what got me going...

Also, what is her love language? Do more of that. Help with the kids, clean up or hire a cleaner, compliment her, thank her, do at least 50% of the household work.

What does she need? Has she told you? Do it. Give her a nice massage, buy some oil, light some candles, etc. That usually gets me in the mood. I will say, "can you give me a massage later?" and if he says yes, then we are down for sex, if no, then no sex. It helps me to relax after a busy day.

Have you ever said or done anything in the past that wasn't kind? After I had kids my husband commented on my body. I go to the gym/ pilates almost daily again and am more confident, but I still think about the comments sometimes. It hurt our emotional connection, which I need to be intimate now that I am older. And yes, in therapy to work on all this.

Did she ever initiate and you declined? When I was pregnant the hormones were roaring, but once I was showing I basically had to beg him to do it (look above for the reason why). I initiated daily when pregnant and can count on one hand how many times once I was showing.

Do you do other things? Hold her hand, kiss her (without sex). I can't remember the last time my husband kissed me on the lips (even during sex). He says he doesn't like it anymore, but I need that connection (and yes my breath is fine).I have tried to kiss him and he always moves his face so I kiss his cheek or will give me a peck and be done. But I miss making out.

Date nights/ solo trips. Have you taken any of those? Can you have family watch the kids for a couple nights and you go somewhere? Plan fun things. We did this twice. One trip was great, the other was great, but I initiated sex both times. He declined on second trip, but we had awesome sex on trip 1. Did it in morning because we were exhausted by the day. My in-laws visited and watched the kids. We have neighbors and we had their kids over one full day and they took ours one evening for a movie night. Hire babysitters. We were tired at night, so hired someone on Sunday afternoons. We all joined a gym that has parents night out evenings so can drop kids off from 5-8.

I would LOVE to have more sex, but I want to be appreciated, respected, loved, and have my needs met. As I grow older I need these things in order to be intimate with someone, otherwise it isn't worth it to me.

NP, but similar to OP. You sound marvelous! If only I had a DW who would respond so positively to all the supportive romantic things you suggest! Are you a unicorn?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think there are at least five levels to how women of a cetain age (forties and early fifties) approach intimacy with their husbands.
1) Ugh, do I have to? -- this is super painful to most husbands.
2) Sure, I will play the game a couple of times per month. -- husbands who live with this situation know they are being taken somewhat seriously, but they usually want more enthusiasm.
3) Yeah okay, I get that you have physical and emotional needs, so I will rev up the engines weekly and sometimes more. -- this is probably where OP sits, and the mistake by the wife is that she thinks it is sufficiently satisfying her husband's emotional needs without initiating. Going along and liking it is nice, but it doesn't make him feel like a lion. Sometimes men want to feel like lions.
4) Let's do it a few times per week, and I might not flat-out initiate, but I will act coy, dress to impress, point out when the kids will be at sleepovers, lock the door in the morning before everyone wakes up, etc. -- this is as much as men can expect, and the behavior of the wife signals to her husband that she's still attracted to him and wants their marriage to be more than running a family.
5) Take me whenever, and watch out because I am going to jump your bones as often as you will. -- nirvana for husbands because they are being treated like lions from the woman they love.

OP seems like he wants to go from #3 to #4, and who can blame him? If his wife never initiates, he's going to question how she feels about him. It is human nature.

Maybe there is just a different definition of initiation? DH and I both think locking the door is initiation.

I’m in public and just spat out my drink

[Anonymous]

It’s funny how men can completely understand how a husband might not think the way his wife does about {children, home, career, finances} but there is this mental block about accepting that women are not the same sexually. Most women are not designed to pursue sexually, which men understood universally once upon a time but has been somehow lost in one generation. I don’t mean that cruelly at all, it is just better to accept that your wife will never initiate the way you do and that is okay because she is a woman and not a man. The flip side of this is women who wish their husbands acted like their girlfriends.

If she is enjoying herself, accepts your advances generally and is a happy person, you are very blessed. Don’t be sad that your wife does not want the way a man wants, because that would bring its own issues.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Most women are not designed to pursue sexually, which men understood universally once upon a time but has been somehow lost in one generation.

I can say that GenX men have heard a lot of messages decrying double standards when it comes to men and women's sexuality. Also that a man pushing hard for sex is creepy and coercive. There are good reasons for this, but by soft selling the differences between men and women's sexuality and the merits of men chasing women for sex and romance, the universal understanding (if it ever existed) has become muddled.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most women are not designed to pursue sexually, which men understood universally once upon a time but has been somehow lost in one generation.

I can say that GenX men have heard a lot of messages decrying double standards when it comes to men and women's sexuality. Also that a man pushing hard for sex is creepy and coercive. There are good reasons for this, but by soft selling the differences between men and women's sexuality and the merits of men chasing women for sex and romance, the universal understanding (if it ever existed) has become muddled.

A man pushing hard for sex has always been creepy, though not unexpected for generations of married couples. It is only in this generation, however, that women are expected to pursue sexually and never lose interest in sex. Before anyone comes at me, it’s also only in this generation that men are expected to care in the slightest about what summer camp their children attend or how the dishes ought to be washed.

I think men have been taught to want to be desirable, in fact they have learned to want like women, which is why you see so many men lament that they have to pursue women, pay for dates and generally act like “men”.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most women are not designed to pursue sexually, which men understood universally once upon a time but has been somehow lost in one generation.

I can say that GenX men have heard a lot of messages decrying double standards when it comes to men and women's sexuality. Also that a man pushing hard for sex is creepy and coercive. There are good reasons for this, but by soft selling the differences between men and women's sexuality and the merits of men chasing women for sex and romance, the universal understanding (if it ever existed) has become muddled.

Also I think the PP’s comment on differences undervalues that many women in their 20s and 30s are much forward than she acknowledges. Lots of discussion today of women owning their sexuality which means pursuing sex.

[Anonymous]

I didn't read the whole thread so maybe it was already mentioned but I don't think OP's disappointment is specifically about sex per se. He's wondering if his wife is still into him and it's creating doubt and anxiety about the relationship. By never initiating it sends that signal. Ya know, men like to be desired a bit too.

[Anonymous]

49 year old DH here. I need sex almost daily. I am very upfront about this, and if my wife is not in the mood after kids go to bed I tell her, no problem, I'm headed upstairs to take care of myself - and I follow through. We have sex 3-4 times per week. This pattern of mixed sex and masturbation has enabled a kind of de facto need for her to initiate (or not) simply by letting me know earlier in the night that I probably won't need to take care of myself, or that she's wiped and it may be on me to HANDle things. LOL