DS14 said something very rude and ungrateful during the holidays and I still don’t know if we handle it well

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I honestly don't understand why everyone is giving mom & dad a pass.

The 529 contribution is a gift to THEM!

They are angry because they think FIL will stop giving THEM money.

The parents have apparently made it clear to the kid over-and-over that FIL gives THEM $$$s every year that goes into a college account. Why have they mentioned this? Because they are so fearful the money train will end.

Kid was rude, OP said he apologized already. The only reason OP is making this such a huge deal is because of the $$$s.

I disagree in this case. A 529 is a gift to the son and the siblings, not just to the parents. Money is fungible and it allows the whole family to use their resources efficiently to meet needs and wants. OP’s son is obviously benefitting from his parent’s financial resources. If the kids were living a frugal life and OP and her husband were keeping their own money for themselves, I’d feel differently. Now $35k in 529’s can be transferred to a Roth IRA. So the son will benefit from his grandfather’s gift regardless if he attends college.

I get that…but it’s freeing up a ton of money the parents can now use for their own savings and retirement.

The vast majority is indirectly going to them…if the FIL wasn’t contributing, they would be on the hook.

This exactly! OP even said the college $ would have had to come from their retirement.

So, basically, the kid was getting college either way. Under the OP’s way, grandpa’s gift is going straight into her pocket and the kid has to be grateful.

This is kind of right. My grandmother gave us the $10,000 a year for Christmas each year. It’s really a gift to the parents who don’t have to fork over a penny for their kids’ college. It’s a huge gift to them, not to the kid. Of course he should say thank you and be grateful, but it’s not really a gift to the kid.

I disagree, parents paying for college is not a right or necessity. If they’re willing to do so, that’s awesome. But it’s (today at least) not at all the norm. You either earn merit aid, get scholarships, or take out loans. That is the norm.

However if the kid knows that either Grandpa is going to pay, or Mom and Dad will… then yeah. I can actually understand even moreso how that logic of “this is a gift to my parents” would be rational for the kid to think.

DCUM is not the place to make this argument. OP should have posted on Reddit or some other forum.

The DCUM demographic is overwhelmingly full pay for their kids’ college.

You are correct in general…but OP locked the wrong forum.

PP you responded to, and I give this reply a +1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I honestly don't understand why everyone is giving mom & dad a pass.

The 529 contribution is a gift to THEM!

They are angry because they think FIL will stop giving THEM money.

The parents have apparently made it clear to the kid over-and-over that FIL gives THEM $$$s every year that goes into a college account. Why have they mentioned this? Because they are so fearful the money train will end.

Kid was rude, OP said he apologized already. The only reason OP is making this such a huge deal is because of the $$$s.

I disagree in this case. A 529 is a gift to the son and the siblings, not just to the parents. Money is fungible and it allows the whole family to use their resources efficiently to meet needs and wants. OP’s son is obviously benefitting from his parent’s financial resources. If the kids were living a frugal life and OP and her husband were keeping their own money for themselves, I’d feel differently. Now $35k in 529’s can be transferred to a Roth IRA. So the son will benefit from his grandfather’s gift regardless if he attends college.

I get that…but it’s freeing up a ton of money the parents can now use for their own savings and retirement.

The vast majority is indirectly going to them…if the FIL wasn’t contributing, they would be on the hook.

This exactly! OP even said the college $ would have had to come from their retirement.

So, basically, the kid was getting college either way. Under the OP’s way, grandpa’s gift is going straight into her pocket and the kid has to be grateful.

This is kind of right. My grandmother gave us the $10,000 a year for Christmas each year. It’s really a gift to the parents who don’t have to fork over a penny for their kids’ college. It’s a huge gift to them, not to the kid. Of course he should say thank you and be grateful, but it’s not really a gift to the kid.

If the kid applied logic to it he would see it’s a gift to him.

First case: Let’s say the family has a net income of $100,000 per year. With three kids the parents would put $30,000 into accounts. That leaves $70,000 per year income. Sorry kid, you can’t go to the $15,000 camp, it’s too expensive.

Second case: Grandmother gives the kids $30,000 towards college. The family net income is $100,000 per year. They don’t have to worry about setting aside the $30,000. So kid would have the money to go to camp.

In this particular case, your logic is wrong bc OP says they’d reduce retirement saving to pay college.

So they’ll reduce their retirement savings by almost a million dollars for three children. 99% chance they don’t have the income to reduce their savings by that much.

[Anonymous]

My son was very grumpy at Xmas. It can be an anxiety ridden time. The kid was rude, but teens often are. You punished him. Time to move on. Grandpa also needs to get over it.

I agree an empty card is super weird. It may bring grandpa pleasure, but it's not bringing any pleasure to the recipient. Just pressure about what is expected of him in the future.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Beyond telling your son he was rude you should have told him how ashamed you were by his callous ingratitude. You should tell him that someday when he's old enough to have enough life experience and maturity he'll feel shame when he thinks about what he did and you only hope his grandfather will still be alive to offer him the sincere apology he deserves. I don't think you son is as good a person as you assume.

I think it’s a little extreme to say he’s “not a good person.” But I do think it’s a helpful incident for OP to reframe her understanding of her family’s wealth compared to her son’s. OP believes they are “not wealthy.” But her son has grown up with the perspective and outlook of a privileged, wealthy child- one who doesn’t understand the value of the fact he will never, ever be burdened with student loan debt and nor will his parents. There is a HUGE divide between how OP views their family and how her son was actually brought up- he has an entitled because … well, he IS entitled.

He’s probably not a bad person. But the moment is sticking with OP because it has highlighted her cognitive dissonance. She is NOT raising working or middle class kids who have an awareness of privilege and wealth and what that will do for their lives. She is raising privileged, wealthy northern Virginia kids who are acting as such.

[Anonymous]

It’s weird your FIL doesn’t understand the kids woukd like something tangible at Xmas.

How hard would it be to put in a $25 or $50 amazon card.

Hey kids I’ve made more contributions to your college fund for your future. I know you wont need that till you’re 18. So please buy yourself something fun from Amazon too.

Just hold back $50 bucks contribution and get gift cards. That’s a much nicer thing to do and the kids look forward to their Amazon gifts too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I honestly don't understand why everyone is giving mom & dad a pass.

The 529 contribution is a gift to THEM!

They are angry because they think FIL will stop giving THEM money.

The parents have apparently made it clear to the kid over-and-over that FIL gives THEM $$$s every year that goes into a college account. Why have they mentioned this? Because they are so fearful the money train will end.

Kid was rude, OP said he apologized already. The only reason OP is making this such a huge deal is because of the $$$s.

I disagree in this case. A 529 is a gift to the son and the siblings, not just to the parents. Money is fungible and it allows the whole family to use their resources efficiently to meet needs and wants. OP’s son is obviously benefitting from his parent’s financial resources. If the kids were living a frugal life and OP and her husband were keeping their own money for themselves, I’d feel differently. Now $35k in 529’s can be transferred to a Roth IRA. So the son will benefit from his grandfather’s gift regardless if he attends college.

I get that…but it’s freeing up a ton of money the parents can now use for their own savings and retirement.

The vast majority is indirectly going to them…if the FIL wasn’t contributing, they would be on the hook.

This exactly! OP even said the college $ would have had to come from their retirement.

So, basically, the kid was getting college either way. Under the OP’s way, grandpa’s gift is going straight into her pocket and the kid has to be grateful.

This is kind of right. My grandmother gave us the $10,000 a year for Christmas each year. It’s really a gift to the parents who don’t have to fork over a penny for their kids’ college. It’s a huge gift to them, not to the kid. Of course he should say thank you and be grateful, but it’s not really a gift to the kid.

I disagree, parents paying for college is not a right or necessity. If they’re willing to do so, that’s awesome. But it’s (today at least) not at all the norm. You either earn merit aid, get scholarships, or take out loans. That is the norm.

However if the kid knows that either Grandpa is going to pay, or Mom and Dad will… then yeah. I can actually understand even moreso how that logic of “this is a gift to my parents” would be rational for the kid to think.

DCUM is not the place to make this argument. OP should have posted on Reddit or some other forum.

The DCUM demographic is overwhelmingly full pay for their kids’ college.

You are correct in general…but OP locked the wrong forum.

Imo, kids who have grandparents who can afford to give millions for their grandkids’ college are probably trying to spend down assets before they die. They have plenty, and their kids were probably raised to be good earners as well and will most likely inherit millions as well. It’s the normal in UMC communities in this area to pay for college for your kids. I seriously doubt that the UMC kids from say Whitman or Yorktown are expected to pay for their own college educations with loans. It’s just not how it works. Yes the kid should be super grateful, but it’s not a Christmas gift and grandpas could buy some token gift or something.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I honestly don't understand why everyone is giving mom & dad a pass.

The 529 contribution is a gift to THEM!

They are angry because they think FIL will stop giving THEM money.

The parents have apparently made it clear to the kid over-and-over that FIL gives THEM $$$s every year that goes into a college account. Why have they mentioned this? Because they are so fearful the money train will end.

Kid was rude, OP said he apologized already. The only reason OP is making this such a huge deal is because of the $$$s.

I disagree in this case. A 529 is a gift to the son and the siblings, not just to the parents. Money is fungible and it allows the whole family to use their resources efficiently to meet needs and wants. OP’s son is obviously benefitting from his parent’s financial resources. If the kids were living a frugal life and OP and her husband were keeping their own money for themselves, I’d feel differently. Now $35k in 529’s can be transferred to a Roth IRA. So the son will benefit from his grandfather’s gift regardless if he attends college.

I get that…but it’s freeing up a ton of money the parents can now use for their own savings and retirement.

The vast majority is indirectly going to them…if the FIL wasn’t contributing, they would be on the hook.

This exactly! OP even said the college $ would have had to come from their retirement.

So, basically, the kid was getting college either way. Under the OP’s way, grandpa’s gift is going straight into her pocket and the kid has to be grateful.

A college degree benefits the recipient directly, not the parents or the grandparents. It is the height of entitlement to assume otherwise.

The kid wouldn’t be paying for his own degree most likely anyway. He wanted a tangible gift on Christmas. It’s not wrong; it’s disappointing not to get gifts on Christmas.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s weird your FIL doesn’t understand the kids woukd like something tangible at Xmas.

How hard would it be to put in a $25 or $50 amazon card.

Hey kids I’ve made more contributions to your college fund for your future. I know you wont need that till you’re 18. So please buy yourself something fun from Amazon too.

Just hold back $50 bucks contribution and get gift cards. That’s a much nicer thing to do and the kids look forward to their Amazon gifts too.

Agree but the kid has no manners. He might have even scoffed at $50.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s weird your FIL doesn’t understand the kids woukd like something tangible at Xmas.

How hard would it be to put in a $25 or $50 amazon card.

Hey kids I’ve made more contributions to your college fund for your future. I know you wont need that till you’re 18. So please buy yourself something fun from Amazon too.

Just hold back $50 bucks contribution and get gift cards. That’s a much nicer thing to do and the kids look forward to their Amazon gifts too.

Agree but the kid has no manners. He might have even scoffed at $50.

DP. There's no reason to think that based on what was described. It's very strange to give a teenager an empty card. Very. I'm not saying the kid handled it well. But the adults here didn't, either. And I expect more from them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s weird your FIL doesn’t understand the kids woukd like something tangible at Xmas.

How hard would it be to put in a $25 or $50 amazon card.

Hey kids I’ve made more contributions to your college fund for your future. I know you wont need that till you’re 18. So please buy yourself something fun from Amazon too.

Just hold back $50 bucks contribution and get gift cards. That’s a much nicer thing to do and the kids look forward to their Amazon gifts too.

Agree but the kid has no manners. He might have even scoffed at $50.

I don't think so. The kid was set up to fail. One off event does not make him a bad person.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree with above poster that this has nothing to do with the college fund. This is more about the 14 year old being rude to his grandfather - the same exact situation without the college fund still would have been rude. I think the focus should be being kind to the grandfather (and others?), instead of being grateful about the college fund.

This. He was rude to his grandfather and the whole family by disrupting Christmas.

The parents disrupted Christmas with their reaction. Not the kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s weird your FIL doesn’t understand the kids woukd like something tangible at Xmas.

How hard would it be to put in a $25 or $50 amazon card.

Hey kids I’ve made more contributions to your college fund for your future. I know you wont need that till you’re 18. So please buy yourself something fun from Amazon too.

Just hold back $50 bucks contribution and get gift cards. That’s a much nicer thing to do and the kids look forward to their Amazon gifts too.

Agree but the kid has no manners. He might have even scoffed at $50.

I don't think so. The kid was set up to fail. One off event does not make him a bad person.

Seriously, who gets excited with a blank card. My mom will send a “love mom” card. It takes literally zero effort. Why even bother?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree with above poster that this has nothing to do with the college fund. This is more about the 14 year old being rude to his grandfather - the same exact situation without the college fund still would have been rude. I think the focus should be being kind to the grandfather (and others?), instead of being grateful about the college fund.

This. He was rude to his grandfather and the whole family by disrupting Christmas.

The kid was rude for sure and even doubled down.
The parents disrupted Christmas with their reaction. Not the kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Beyond telling your son he was rude you should have told him how ashamed you were by his callous ingratitude. You should tell him that someday when he's old enough to have enough life experience and maturity he'll feel shame when he thinks about what he did and you only hope his grandfather will still be alive to offer him the sincere apology he deserves. I don't think you son is as good a person as you assume.

I think it’s a little extreme to say he’s “not a good person.” But I do think it’s a helpful incident for OP to reframe her understanding of her family’s wealth compared to her son’s. OP believes they are “not wealthy.” But her son has grown up with the perspective and outlook of a privileged, wealthy child- one who doesn’t understand the value of the fact he will never, ever be burdened with student loan debt and nor will his parents. There is a HUGE divide between how OP views their family and how her son was actually brought up- he has an entitled because … well, he IS entitled.

He’s probably not a bad person. But the moment is sticking with OP because it has highlighted her cognitive dissonance. She is NOT raising working or middle class kids who have an awareness of privilege and wealth and what that will do for their lives. She is raising privileged, wealthy northern Virginia kids who are acting as such.

+1000

If OP wants to impress this upon her son, she could definitely have Grandpa give the college account to a extremely needy child (this would not have any affect unless OP makes the son take out loans/get scholarships if he wants to go to any college)

I obviously don’t expect OP to do this, but honestly there is a very large cognitive dissonance here.

I am at the tail end of the millennial generation, grew up MC/average. Both sets of Grandparents were comfortably retired. (My surviving Grandma is still living comfortably in her own SFH, in a very expensive city) that set of Grandparents live pretty far away so I very rarely see them, when I did they would give me multiple christmas+birthday gifts combined and combined from that side of the family—the most I ever got (mind you this was for a few years worth or birthdays and christmases) was a few hundred dollars.

My other set of Grandparents who I’d see all the time because they live close would give me around 20 dollars every Christmas and every birthday.

I’m not complaining whatsoever, they were all very generous and presents are not a requirement. But this is probably the norm even today. Definitely not thousands of dollars in an account for college/your future.

Perhaps ask your child if he’d like $20 every christmas and birthday along with tens of thousands of dollars in debt for any schooling he wants to do after high school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s weird your FIL doesn’t understand the kids woukd like something tangible at Xmas.

How hard would it be to put in a $25 or $50 amazon card.

Hey kids I’ve made more contributions to your college fund for your future. I know you wont need that till you’re 18. So please buy yourself something fun from Amazon too.

Just hold back $50 bucks contribution and get gift cards. That’s a much nicer thing to do and the kids look forward to their Amazon gifts too.

Agree but the kid has no manners. He might have even scoffed at $50.

I don't think so. The kid was set up to fail. One off event does not make him a bad person.

Seriously, who gets excited with a blank card. My mom will send a “love mom” card. It takes literally zero effort. Why even bother?

This. Cards are dumb.