If you have a mentally ill spouse

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why don’t you let Adhd person speak for themselves. They are blaming the people in their lives who have helped them and pointed out flaws so they didn’t have to experience hardship. That is a problem in of itself. If you can’t understand it just be glad you haven’t gone through life with a mentally ill spouse. People who try to help their mentally ill spouses are saints to me. I will stick up for them when someone says they were wrong to not just leave.

And I did give advice. I told them to live more simply and manage their own behavior accepting themselves and trying to grow. And to stop judging what others say and just using their words how best helps them. Not scapegoating or expecting everyone to just give you a pep talk when you made a big mistake that affected their lives.

I originally responded to a poster who said she wanted to help and I said that the best help is encouragement because people who struggle often ARE working incredibly hard.

You then continued to step on my initial point which is that a lot of help is Presley just overwhelmed. You haven’t listened to anything I’ve said and instead insisted that I’ve not done enough or done things in the right way.

What you are actually doing is trying to claim for yourself, the helper, the work that people who struggle have to put in. We are emotional burn victims and the pain doesn’t got away, it takes time, trial and error to figure what is our unique strategy for managing.

Yes, we can behave badly at times. That’s on us. You communicate that and you choose is to either leave or be patient. Your choice. But you can’t fix us, we fix ourselves. In the way that works for us. Maybe it’s good enough for you, maybe it isn’t.

That's ridiculous. You are not an island. People have the right to call out bad behavior and have the right to try to help their spouse. No good spouse would not help their spouse if they had cancer waiting until they helped themselves on this. No good spouse would just leave for one offense. Also people don't just get better on their own. They often need help. It doesn't work that way.

You need to forgive those who "overwhelmed" you and tried to help you. They were just caring about you.

Again, you are projecting your own story and assumptions onto me. I’ve never blamed anyone. Only I am stating that the care I was offered didn’t translate into the help I needed.

In my case, the care and help was actually enabling and overwhelming. It was very well-intended and offered in love, but it wasn’t what I needed. And therefore, I had to detach from those relationships. Including my marriage.

I’m sorry for the situation that you are in that is causing you to push back on me so hard.

The care, help and enabling I rec’d wasn’t the care and help I needed.

But leaving those relationships and responsibilities worked well.

Ok then. Yes walking away is often better for everyone- spouse, kids, yourself.

DP.

Yep, walking away is. Ben Affleck made some similar comment inferring that his wife (Jennifer Garner) was part of the reason he kept failing.

Have similar standards and boundaries for everyone, mentally ill or not. Offer help when asked.

You are not their mother nor their therapist. If they need you to drive them to either of these people. Do. But don't make excuses for people treating you like crap.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Can’t help someone who doesn’t want help or won’t help themselves.

Detach and move on.

It is legal to live with untreated mental illness. Detach and move on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Probably the reason a mentally ill spouse does this is that they feel guilty they were such a pain to deal with or something when they finally come out of their irresponsibility. It's another reflection on themselves that they project to their partner.

In my experience and my observation of an extended family with unmanaged mental disorders: they do NOT feel shame or remorse or guilt. At all.

That’s a myth that that’s why they mistreat and abuse others close to them. From shame or guilt or awareness of their issues.

There is little awareness. By the time they are adults they have so many deeply ingrained maladaptive “coping mechanisms,” such as gaslighting, deflecting, making personal attacks, stonewalling, temper tantruming, they have convinced themselves that they are always right and those who inquire are always wrong and the bad guys.

There is no guilt. It’s black and white, you are wrong, they are never wrong. It’s your fault- even their rages, breaking things, tempers, it’s never their fault. You are nuts, so are your parents, they are not.

I was speaking to the ADHD person who is saying that the people who tried to help them were actually hurting them, and they should have just left them alone. It's a complete Un acknowledgement of spouses of the mentally ill as individuals with their own strengths and own agenda to live the life they want to live and likely agreed to. Finally, that person said they realized the help was from the spouse's perspective, but it's like he/she makes it about being selfish rather than helping. Yes, it is from their perspective because it's from them and they are individuals, not mirrors of what you want. Yes, it is actual helping. That's where the disconnect is. Just because it doesn't feel good to the mentally ill spouse or actually help them, doesn't make it "wrong" or "selfish". It's for each person to accept feedback and then make the best use for themselves. Labeling helpers are hurters is a defense mechanism.

+1

Yes! This! DP here. Thank you fro articulating the situation. This describes DH and MIL to a tee.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do so many people have mental health problems these days? Was it always this prevalent?

I think it cuts both ways. Some of it was always there and just ignored or swept under the rug by the families. But some of is is a result of the way we live now with information and executive function overload pushing more people to the edge. Imagine someone prone to anxiety before internet. They'd hear a couple of scary local stories related to whatever their trigger is, but that would be it. Now they can easily find every tragic case within 1000 miles radius AND will conveniently be served more stories as they come up due to social media algorithms. Think about all the paperwork that floods your inbox requiring your immediate attention - just deciding whether it's truly important, some sort of a sales pitch or an outright scam is exhausting.

I work in risk management and one of the exercises we do to teach people about phishing is sending official looking emails asking to click on a link. Our most "successful" email was saying that if you don't immediately fill out this form, your paychecks will stop. We caught the CEO!!! It's a sad commentary on the current state of life that people truly believe it is a possibility.

To prior, prior poster,

My husbands grandmother thought the exteme cases of mental illness now are due to the fact that most people are not doing hard work outside. She said back in her day it was extremely rare for a man to get mental illness. She said young males and men were working from sun up to sun down on the farm out in the sunshine doing hard physical labor all day.

Women also worked hard back in the day. The grandmother said women would get post partum depression. Other forms of mental illness in would have been extremely rare in women.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
This statement from you. They are still helping. It's just not helping you at that time. Just because it didn't help you at that time, doesn't mean they weren't helping through their own actions. It may have been misguided but this is how they tried to help you.

"At some point, you are not helping you are trying to control another person with your expectations. Or you are enabling that person to expect support when they need to experience the consequences and pain in order to actually learn for themselves."

Is this about a gold star? You need acknowledgement for your “help”?

Which is exactly the point I made earlier…people are mostly “helping” in order to make themselves feel better rather than actually offering the person what they need.

NP

Wtf?

No.

Dude, get over yourself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why don’t you let Adhd person speak for themselves. They are blaming the people in their lives who have helped them and pointed out flaws so they didn’t have to experience hardship. That is a problem in of itself. If you can’t understand it just be glad you haven’t gone through life with a mentally ill spouse. People who try to help their mentally ill spouses are saints to me. I will stick up for them when someone says they were wrong to not just leave.

And I did give advice. I told them to live more simply and manage their own behavior accepting themselves and trying to grow. And to stop judging what others say and just using their words how best helps them. Not scapegoating or expecting everyone to just give you a pep talk when you made a big mistake that affected their lives.

I originally responded to a poster who said she wanted to help and I said that the best help is encouragement because people who struggle often ARE working incredibly hard.

You then continued to step on my initial point which is that a lot of help is Presley just overwhelmed. You haven’t listened to anything I’ve said and instead insisted that I’ve not done enough or done things in the right way.

What you are actually doing is trying to claim for yourself, the helper, the work that people who struggle have to put in. We are emotional burn victims and the pain doesn’t got away, it takes time, trial and error to figure what is our unique strategy for managing.

Yes, we can behave badly at times. That’s on us. You communicate that and you choose is to either leave or be patient. Your choice. But you can’t fix us, we fix ourselves. In the way that works for us. Maybe it’s good enough for you, maybe it isn’t.

That's ridiculous. You are not an island. People have the right to call out bad behavior and have the right to try to help their spouse. No good spouse would not help their spouse if they had cancer waiting until they helped themselves on this. No good spouse would just leave for one offense. Also people don't just get better on their own. They often need help. It doesn't work that way.

You need to forgive those who "overwhelmed" you and tried to help you. They were just caring about you.

Again, you are projecting your own story and assumptions onto me. I’ve never blamed anyone. Only I am stating that the care I was offered didn’t translate into the help I needed.

In my case, the care and help was actually enabling and overwhelming. It was very well-intended and offered in love, but it wasn’t what I needed. And therefore, I had to detach from those relationships. Including my marriage.

I’m sorry for the situation that you are in that is causing you to push back on me so hard.

The care, help and enabling I rec’d wasn’t the care and help I needed.

But leaving those relationships and responsibilities worked well.

Ok then. Yes walking away is often better for everyone- spouse, kids, yourself.

Yes quitting adult life with kids, a house, job, spouse, responsibilities and going back to solo life won’t fix your mental disorders but will greatly simplify your life.

Toss in blaming others for your shortcomings or everything and you hit the Easy Button / Restart Button someone else alluded to.

[Anonymous]

The only positive someone feels in helping a mentally ill spouse is the positive that they are trying to keep a family together and functioning. It's a natural healthy reaction to want to keep something together that you helped build and are a part of. Eventually it often becomes too much work and they have to detach or get professional help for the mentally ill spouse but they aren't looking for a gold star by helping. The are trying to keep the spouse from self-destructing. No one is giving out gold stars to spouses in this situation. On the contrary, they are often blamed for getting into the situation in the first place. That doesn't mean they always know how to help. Many professionals don't know how to help.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Probably the reason a mentally ill spouse does this is that they feel guilty they were such a pain to deal with or something when they finally come out of their irresponsibility. It's another reflection on themselves that they project to their partner.

In my experience and my observation of an extended family with unmanaged mental disorders: they do NOT feel shame or remorse or guilt. At all.

That’s a myth that that’s why they mistreat and abuse others close to them. From shame or guilt or awareness of their issues.

There is little awareness. By the time they are adults they have so many deeply ingrained maladaptive “coping mechanisms,” such as gaslighting, deflecting, making personal attacks, stonewalling, temper tantruming, they have convinced themselves that they are always right and those who inquire are always wrong and the bad guys.

There is no guilt. It’s black and white, you are wrong, they are never wrong. It’s your fault- even their rages, breaking things, tempers, it’s never their fault. You are nuts, so are your parents, they are not.

I agree with this, AND I think it’s both — they have a lot of defenses bc they are crippled with shame and guilt inside. It’s really quite sad. They lack a healthy sense of self.

Sorry, we don’t see this guilt or shame angel in the nami groups or discussions with spouses and children of bipolar, aspergers, borderline or schizophrenic family members.

Mindblindness, lack of theory of mind, and lack of self awareness is very real in the above. Thus motivations are not shame or guilt, but only personal needs at the expense of anything else (ie relationships).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why don’t you let Adhd person speak for themselves. They are blaming the people in their lives who have helped them and pointed out flaws so they didn’t have to experience hardship. That is a problem in of itself. If you can’t understand it just be glad you haven’t gone through life with a mentally ill spouse. People who try to help their mentally ill spouses are saints to me. I will stick up for them when someone says they were wrong to not just leave.

And I did give advice. I told them to live more simply and manage their own behavior accepting themselves and trying to grow. And to stop judging what others say and just using their words how best helps them. Not scapegoating or expecting everyone to just give you a pep talk when you made a big mistake that affected their lives.

I originally responded to a poster who said she wanted to help and I said that the best help is encouragement because people who struggle often ARE working incredibly hard.

You then continued to step on my initial point which is that a lot of help is Presley just overwhelmed. You haven’t listened to anything I’ve said and instead insisted that I’ve not done enough or done things in the right way.

What you are actually doing is trying to claim for yourself, the helper, the work that people who struggle have to put in. We are emotional burn victims and the pain doesn’t got away, it takes time, trial and error to figure what is our unique strategy for managing.

Yes, we can behave badly at times. That’s on us. You communicate that and you choose is to either leave or be patient. Your choice. But you can’t fix us, we fix ourselves. In the way that works for us. Maybe it’s good enough for you, maybe it isn’t.

That's ridiculous. You are not an island. People have the right to call out bad behavior and have the right to try to help their spouse. No good spouse would not help their spouse if they had cancer waiting until they helped themselves on this. No good spouse would just leave for one offense. Also people don't just get better on their own. They often need help. It doesn't work that way.

You need to forgive those who "overwhelmed" you and tried to help you. They were just caring about you.

Again, you are projecting your own story and assumptions onto me. I’ve never blamed anyone. Only I am stating that the care I was offered didn’t translate into the help I needed.

In my case, the care and help was actually enabling and overwhelming. It was very well-intended and offered in love, but it wasn’t what I needed. And therefore, I had to detach from those relationships. Including my marriage.

I’m sorry for the situation that you are in that is causing you to push back on me so hard.

The care, help and enabling I rec’d wasn’t the care and help I needed.

But leaving those relationships and responsibilities worked well.

Ok then. Yes walking away is often better for everyone- spouse, kids, yourself.

DP.

Yep, walking away is. Ben Affleck made some similar comment inferring that his wife (Jennifer Garner) was part of the reason he kept failing.

Have similar standards and boundaries for everyone, mentally ill or not. Offer help when asked.

You are not their mother nor their therapist. If they need you to drive them to either of these people. Do. But don't make excuses for people treating you like crap.

He’s a selfish, immature idiot if he made that comment and never walked it back after his AA completion or treatments.
She gave him a couple chances to grow up and he would not or could not.

Face it, some people aren’t adults and aren’t capable of caring for others’ needs. So they shouldn’t be married or have kids or in charge of much. They can just play around.

Some get lucky and rich so they can throw money at real adults to play Mommy for them- drive, cook, clean, plan, book things, decide things, raise their children, buy their clothes, keep them on time, maintain their cars and houses.

[Anonymous]

I think he said he was in an immature place and the help she was giving wasn't something he was willing to accept at the time. That he needed to help himself. He was immature and admitted it. I think at the time no matter what she did, he would have pinned it on her because he wasn't in a good place himself.

[Anonymous]

I’m the ADHD poster and have been reflecting on the comments and realize I was projecting my situation onto many posters.

In my specific case, which is too complicated to summarise, I had to reject the help I was receiving in order to step up and take responsibility. My spouse only wanted to take things from me to make my life easier, but it just enables and stressed me out. Then he’d criticise me for clutter and other things. Nothing I did was good enough and the more i tries to explain myself, the more resentful he got. Like he just wanted me gone.

It actually made me worse mentally, but now that we are split and there are clear lanes for coparenting, I feel less stressed and overwhelmed and able to manage the increase in responsibilities.

I am not bitter, I don’t blame. This is just the reality I am dealing with. I have found help and support from other friends and professionals. But not from my ex-spouse or parents.

[Anonymous]

OP, what are your DH’s reasons for rejecting intensive DBT?

I would explore why he is rejecting this recommendation. Tell him your concerns and tell him that you feel it’s his obligation to your family to pursue all treatment options that could be helpful. You are likely to be extraordinarily important to him and you can influence and put pressure on without making ultimatums necessarily.

There is also the possibility that he could pursue a job that is less stressful.

I have depression myself and I’m on medication and have been through years of therapy. Sometimes I do need to retreat for a couple of days and lit in bed. Things just get completely overwhelming for me and it is like having the flu or something. I am overcome by fatigue and cannot think properly; everything is slow and heavy and unbearable. Obviously I am not proud of this but I just can’t help it. However I do not treat my spouse badly in these situation, I recognize what is happening and I isolate myself.

My parents had untreated bipolar and alcoholism and I do what I can to not repeat that; I do not drink, I take medication, I use therapy. I contribute a lot to the family and the household. But I am not a perfect person and sometimes I just cannot cope.

Do you feel like your DH is a good person who is doing the best he can? You may need to go into therapy yourself to learn how to best handle these situations. He may be incredibly sensitive and full of shame about his mental health weaknesses. If the two of you are a team and are working together openly and honestly then I don’t think the management of mental illness is unsurmountable to family life, any more than physical illness is. But there is a lot of shame that needs to be dealt with, and fear and silence. Have you guys been to marriage counseling? It could really help you talk about this and productive ways and help your DH see your point of view without getting defensive. Good luck, I know it is not easy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m the ADHD poster and have been reflecting on the comments and realize I was projecting my situation onto many posters.

In my specific case, which is too complicated to summarise, I had to reject the help I was receiving in order to step up and take responsibility. My spouse only wanted to take things from me to make my life easier, but it just enables and stressed me out. Then he’d criticise me for clutter and other things. Nothing I did was good enough and the more i tries to explain myself, the more resentful he got. Like he just wanted me gone.

It actually made me worse mentally, but now that we are split and there are clear lanes for coparenting, I feel less stressed and overwhelmed and able to manage the increase in responsibilities.

I am not bitter, I don’t blame. This is just the reality I am dealing with. I have found help and support from other friends and professionals. But not from my ex-spouse or parents.

So in your case, you probably had some way of emotionally dealing with him that didn't work out well. I'm going to guess some sort of defense mechanism which is often the case with people who have ADHD. He probably also had some emotional issues that led to the split.OCD or something. And you weren't taking responsibility for things. I think understanding that your health led to the dysfunction is healthier than thinking the dysfunction stemmed from someone else and that you had to get away to get better. Both are actually true, but it's due to an inability to be healthy from the beginning. It's like someone who can't do the job and the boss doesn't understand why the person can't do it and takes things away and complains when still that isn't enough, but then when the person leaves and gets more skilled than they are better on their own. It's the skill that makes the person healthier and the lack of past trauma/distrust dealing with a new person.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m the ADHD poster and have been reflecting on the comments and realize I was projecting my situation onto many posters.

In my specific case, which is too complicated to summarise, I had to reject the help I was receiving in order to step up and take responsibility. My spouse only wanted to take things from me to make my life easier, but it just enables and stressed me out. Then he’d criticise me for clutter and other things. Nothing I did was good enough and the more i tries to explain myself, the more resentful he got. Like he just wanted me gone.

It actually made me worse mentally, but now that we are split and there are clear lanes for coparenting, I feel less stressed and overwhelmed and able to manage the increase in responsibilities.

I am not bitter, I don’t blame. This is just the reality I am dealing with. I have found help and support from other friends and professionals. But not from my ex-spouse or parents.

So in your case, you probably had some way of emotionally dealing with him that didn't work out well. I'm going to guess some sort of defense mechanism which is often the case with people who have ADHD. He probably also had some emotional issues that led to the split.OCD or something. And you weren't taking responsibility for things. I think understanding that your health led to the dysfunction is healthier than thinking the dysfunction stemmed from someone else and that you had to get away to get better. Both are actually true, but it's due to an inability to be healthy from the beginning. It's like someone who can't do the job and the boss doesn't understand why the person can't do it and takes things away and complains when still that isn't enough, but then when the person leaves and gets more skilled than they are better on their own. It's the skill that makes the person healthier and the lack of past trauma/distrust dealing with a new person.

+1

PP's complete lack of awareness is astounding!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m the ADHD poster and have been reflecting on the comments and realize I was projecting my situation onto many posters.

In my specific case, which is too complicated to summarise, I had to reject the help I was receiving in order to step up and take responsibility. My spouse only wanted to take things from me to make my life easier, but it just enables and stressed me out. Then he’d criticise me for clutter and other things. Nothing I did was good enough and the more i tries to explain myself, the more resentful he got. Like he just wanted me gone.

It actually made me worse mentally, but now that we are split and there are clear lanes for coparenting, I feel less stressed and overwhelmed and able to manage the increase in responsibilities.

I am not bitter, I don’t blame. This is just the reality I am dealing with. I have found help and support from other friends and professionals. But not from my ex-spouse or parents.

So in your case, you probably had some way of emotionally dealing with him that didn't work out well. I'm going to guess some sort of defense mechanism which is often the case with people who have ADHD. He probably also had some emotional issues that led to the split.OCD or something. And you weren't taking responsibility for things. I think understanding that your health led to the dysfunction is healthier than thinking the dysfunction stemmed from someone else and that you had to get away to get better. Both are actually true, but it's due to an inability to be healthy from the beginning. It's like someone who can't do the job and the boss doesn't understand why the person can't do it and takes things away and complains when still that isn't enough, but then when the person leaves and gets more skilled than they are better on their own. It's the skill that makes the person healthier and the lack of past trauma/distrust dealing with a new person.

Yes, agree. There’s a lot of truth to this.

This is the healthier outcome for me mentally, even if I’m now less financially secure in the long run.