AITA for not wanting DH to give MIL 4K to clear a debt

[Anonymous]

Op, you are very hard on her about how she has spent all her money over the years and not saved. That would make me upset too.
This seems to be true with your also though. I'm a low earner immigrant living on single income raising a kid and I can pull that money out of my back pocket.
I would have agreed to giving out that money and more, but also ask to go over her finances and plan better. Since yours seem to not be as good as they can. Don't get involved. Financial planner? You are throwing money away MIL as no-earner doesn't have. Plenty if info out there for you all to do it together.

[Anonymous]

I realize this thread is 9 pages long…. MIL isn’t the one who asked for the money. The DH has realized the kitchen loan isn’t being paid back at a great enough payment to knock this loan out. HE has devised the plan of SIL and himself paying off the loan.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would not pay off the debt except if there was a lien on the house. I’d help with food and basics.

A HELOC is a lien on the house. And if she’s only making interest payments it’s getting bigger and bigger.

So OP MIL has a HELOC and can't pay it. DH+SIL would each contribute 4 and MIL what out of her assets? Bottom line is OP never included full details on the amounts. Also it doesn't appear that the MIL's children are getting the full scope of her finances from tax returns to bank statements to credit cards.

We had a house with early 1950's cabinets. Most of those were solid wood [same for my parents]. What did MIL do to that kitchen? They can be cheap renos- new floor [usually had some vinyl], paint cupboards, new counters plus it's likely appliances have been upgraded. If not it's time for the basic GE type stuff.

Would be nice to pay it off for her but OP is not flush with spare cash. And has no control over weird and silly future spending

My post above. OP stated the MIL has about 50k in cash, kitchen done 4 years ago, 2 years of HELOC interest only payments-is this a HELOC with a balloon? DH+SIL each pay 4k and MIL pays the rest which is a "large chunk" of the 50k savings. What $ are the large chunk? 25K? Makes me wonder on the status of MIL bathrooms, roof?

The conversation is bigger than this HELOC and OP DH might never have even seen the documents.

[Anonymous]

The lack of information is what would concern me, OP. She’s clearly terrible with money.

It would take the sister one month of paying for a full time nanny to make up DH’s 4K. So, in exchange for childcare, she should be wholly financially responsible.

They all have champagne tastes on a beer budget, and want OP to subsidize them. I’d pay the $4K in exchange for a full financial POA, immediate sale of the house, liquidate all assets, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The lack of information is what would concern me, OP. She’s clearly terrible with money.

It would take the sister one month of paying for a full time nanny to make up DH’s 4K. So, in exchange for childcare, she should be wholly financially responsible.

They all have champagne tastes on a beer budget, and want OP to subsidize them. I’d pay the $4K in exchange for a full financial POA, immediate sale of the house, liquidate all assets, etc.

This will never happen. People like the MIL are takers. She was fine not working for decades to raise kids. She is fine retiring early despite inadequate savings. She was fine remodeling her kitchen and now asking her working children to pay for it. Giant mooch if you ask me. This will never stop and is just the beginning. She will demand a fancy assisted living facility that is 10k per month when she should be in a Medicaid facility.

OP this is just the beginning for you sadly. 4k is nothing compared to what you’ll be asked to pay for in the end.

Personally I’d say no and say you need the money to go to care later on. Not a kitchen.

[Anonymous]

I would never loan/give money to family. ALL mothers make sacrifices to raise their kids. Just nope. We paid for my husband's brother to come back for their father's funeral. He said he would pay us back - mind you he was in Hawaii and it was $1200. Haven't seen a dime so just no.

[Anonymous]

Yes, I think you should gift her the $4k, but I would let your husband know where you stand on any future assistance after this point. I would have a serious problem with a spouse that stood in my way to gifting this to my own mother - do it for your husband not your MIL.

[Anonymous]

I have a hard time believing there are so many posters telling OP to give MIL the money. I’m thinking it is one or two posters posting over and over. Probably people who expect to live off their own children. Good parents don’t mooch off their kids.

I would not give a 69 year old 4K unless I had plenty of money to spare. It sounds like she could get a part time job and pay it off easily and chooses not to. It’s not like shes 80.

How does your DH even know about that loan at all if she didn’t ask him for $ or hint at it?

If you give her this $, she’s just going to renovate a different part of her house and get another loan for you to pay off. Trust me, I’ve seen it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes, I think you should gift her the $4k, but I would let your husband know where you stand on any future assistance after this point. I would have a serious problem with a spouse that stood in my way to gifting this to my own mother - do it for your husband not your MIL.

But why should anyone believe you and your mother wouldn't come back for more? Giving anything at all sets a bad precedent and opens the door to repeated requests. Her financial situation is awful, she makes bad decisions and can't afford her lifestyle, why would anyone believe $4K is the end?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, I think you should gift her the $4k, but I would let your husband know where you stand on any future assistance after this point. I would have a serious problem with a spouse that stood in my way to gifting this to my own mother - do it for your husband not your MIL.

But why should anyone believe you and your mother wouldn't come back for more? Giving anything at all sets a bad precedent and opens the door to repeated requests. Her financial situation is awful, she makes bad decisions and can't afford her lifestyle, why would anyone believe $4K is the end?

You are different ground with your spouse when you can point out that he agreed to a one time gift in the past than you are never helping in the first place. I don’t agree that this sounds like an out of control spending MIL either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I would never loan/give money to family. ALL mothers make sacrifices to raise their kids. Just nope. We paid for my husband's brother to come back for their father's funeral. He said he would pay us back - mind you he was in Hawaii and it was $1200. Haven't seen a dime so just no.

Wow.

[Anonymous]

OP you admit you had it hard growing up because you were on your own. You’ve married someone who has a different idea of how families help each other out, including yes, financially - and I think you should think about the kind of example you are setting for your own kids. Are you creating the type of family that comes together and helps each other in need? Or are you more tied to the values of independence and grit, and insisting your kids forge their own path at 18 and without any of your help?

Families are different but a huge part of this is a clash between your husband and yourself about this. You are angry about your own experiences - what if your parents had helped you attend college? Would you look at your husband’s stance differently?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, I think you should gift her the $4k, but I would let your husband know where you stand on any future assistance after this point. I would have a serious problem with a spouse that stood in my way to gifting this to my own mother - do it for your husband not your MIL.

But why should anyone believe you and your mother wouldn't come back for more? Giving anything at all sets a bad precedent and opens the door to repeated requests. Her financial situation is awful, she makes bad decisions and can't afford her lifestyle, why would anyone believe $4K is the end?

You are different ground with your spouse when you can point out that he agreed to a one time gift in the past than you are never helping in the first place. I don’t agree that this sounds like an out of control spending MIL either.

It's not that her spending is out of control, it's that she makes bad decisions, doesn't understand money, and doesn't have anywhere near enough savings. Even if she spent the bare minimum she would be in trouble because she simply does not have enough income and savings. It's impossible for this to be a one-time gift. So it's stupid for OP and her DH to say or believe that this is a one-time thing.

Rather than just handing over $4K, this is an opportunity review the big picture of MIL's and their family's finances and get on a sustainable path. I do think OP and her DH will have to pay for MIL quite a bit over the years, but they can act now to improve her situation. But just giving money without an intervention would be a hard no from me.

[Anonymous]

Of course OP can make a one time gift of $4k, just like she can refuse it. Agreeing to a one time gift doesn’t obligate her to continue making payments to her MIL.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes op you are a huge AH. Do you want her to work u til she dies? She’s 69!

Op here. She only worked for about 20 years, is super healthy, looks to be in her 50s, and could easily get a (desk) job in her field making 100K. She just doesn’t want to work anymore but didn’t save enough to live on. I’ve been working longer than she has in my mid forties.

She didn't save for old age because she was making sacrifices for her son.

You are a galactically huge AH.

No, she actually made a series of poor financial choices including multiple divorces, repeated custody battles, and staying at home for 20 years and not working.

Op, I get it. My mom regularly touts the narrative that as a single mom she chose to make sacrifices for me in lieu of saving for her retirement when in fact she made a series of terrible choices, including marrying a drug addict and working only sporadically in “passion jobs”, which would have resulted in her being broke regardless (despite the fact that she herself grew up upper middle class with far more advantages than I ever had) and it’s only thanks to assistance from her extended family that I was able to go to college, etc.

A few years ago she ultimately decided at 62 that she was just done working (a white collar desk job), despite having 0 retirement savings and has since been living off of social security alone, though constantly hinting that she could use assistance.

My husband and I make a decent enough HHI of 270k, but still worry about saving enough for retirement/college for our two kids. There’s absolutely no way that I’m going to draw from that to subsidize her “retirement”, despite the fact that I know her friends/outsiders are judging me for not helping out more as she is clearly struggling financially and we relatively appear to be comfortable.

I have a serious question for you PP. what kind of hurt incurred on you by her prevents you from helping her?
I mean, she isn’t the most hard working person but she also doesn’t sound like a horrible abuser.
Why is it that kids refuse to help parents?

Well first, yes I still am a little resentful that many of the choices she made while I was growing up made for a pretty miserable childhood (trying to let that go).

More importantly I know if I were to gift her money once it would just open to door to her asking for/expecting increasing amounts down the road (regularly saw this growing up with her requests for money from her parents/siblings).

If it were truly a question of her being homeless/a medical emergency, etc of course I would step in but not simply to improve her lifestyle because she chose to retire at 62 despite having no savings.

Didn't you say she left her last job two years ago - so at 67?