s/o - Cheating and Checking Diversity boxes

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I can’t wait for race to end.

I teach at a school where about half the kids are what you would call “mixed race.” When everybody’s mixed maybe we won’t have to check boxes anymore.

Don't worry, the "progressives" will figure out a new way to divide and conquer

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am quite sure this is not as widespread as the pyschos on this board suggest.

Plenty of Asian parents are fed up with their kids being discriminated against and being held to an impossible standard. The system is rigged against them, why not play the game?

Have you seen the make up of Ivy campuses? My kid was admitted to several T15. Asian kids are over represented. At one Ivy, Asian was the majority race of the admitted students group that day. Stop playing the victim. Many Asian families think there is some recipe to a T15 and now claim discrimination. It's holistic admissions, and every T15 campus has a large cohort of Asian kids. Much larger than population percentages would suggest. Even if these schools filled all their spots with Asian kids, it would still result in overwhelming rejection for most Asian kids.

Same thing happened with Jews many decades ago but now they make up about 25% of Ivy schools when they make up 2% of the population. That is 12 times the population but you don't hear about how Jews are extremely over-represented. Asians make up about 6% of the population and make up about 18% of Ivy schools - approximately 3 times the population.

Without discrimination in college admissions, the % would be about 60% not 18%. There is your discrimination.

Ahh, it’s the anti-Semitic Asian posting again. Get your facts straight. Jews don’t come anywhere close to 25% at the Ivy’s. At best half that and at most it’s lower. And at MIT and CMU, they are only 5% of the population.

And I should add that Asians make up far more than 18% at Ivys. It’s closer to 30% and at MIT and CMU it’s at least 50 % if not more.

You are right, Asian Americans make up 18.4% of all the Ivy universities.

And that is only because the "Harvard" discrimination lawsuit was filed about 11 years ago and Harvard and other Ivy universities slowly but sure increased % of admitted Asian Americans in response to the lawsuit.

The other poster does not address how it is fair for Jews to be 12 times to 25 times more over-represented than the population % is fine and dandy and changes the subject to MIT/CMU but it is horrible that Asian Americans are over-represented by about 3 to 3.5 times over-represented so Asians should shut up about it.

Yes- that PP was an Anti Asian. Shameful how soon they forget their own ordeal and discrimination.

Shameful indeed.

[Anonymous]

Military academies are hungry for minorities. But most of their minorities are not "minorities," but opportunistic box-checkers who have 1 drop of blood and never projected as acculturated Hispanics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If this is a widespread problem it would be concentrated in the top 30 or so competitive schools. This would mean that the diversity stats these schools report are BS, correct?

I mean this is true anyway

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Military academies are hungry for minorities. But most of their minorities are not "minorities," but opportunistic box-checkers who have 1 drop of blood and never projected as acculturated Hispanics.

Military academies do get many actual minorities because of their visa/ immigration benefits. They have much more diversity than regular colleges.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Military academies are hungry for minorities. But most of their minorities are not "minorities," but opportunistic box-checkers who have 1 drop of blood and never projected as acculturated Hispanics.

Military academies do get many actual minorities because of their visa/ immigration benefits. They have much more diversity than regular colleges.

What do you mean here? Outside of certain "sponsored foreign student" type programs, you have to be a citizen to attend any of the academies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am quite sure this is not as widespread as the pyschos on this board suggest.

Plenty of Asian parents are fed up with their kids being discriminated against and being held to an impossible standard. The system is rigged against them, why not play the game?

Have you seen the make up of Ivy campuses? My kid was admitted to several T15. Asian kids are over represented. At one Ivy, Asian was the majority race of the admitted students group that day. Stop playing the victim. Many Asian families think there is some recipe to a T15 and now claim discrimination. It's holistic admissions, and every T15 campus has a large cohort of Asian kids. Much larger than population percentages would suggest. Even if these schools filled all their spots with Asian kids, it would still result in overwhelming rejection for most Asian kids.

Same thing happened with Jews many decades ago but now they make up about 25% of Ivy schools when they make up 2% of the population. That is 12 times the population but you don't hear about how Jews are extremely over-represented. Asians make up about 6% of the population and make up about 18% of Ivy schools - approximately 3 times the population.

Without discrimination in college admissions, the % would be about 60% not 18%. There is your discrimination.

Ahh, it’s the anti-Semitic Asian posting again. Get your facts straight. Jews don’t come anywhere close to 25% at the Ivy’s. At best half that and at most it’s lower. And at MIT and CMU, they are only 5% of the population.

DP: might you be an anti-Asian Jew? What previous PP is saying, be it 12 or 25%, is esentially correct. Jews are "overrepresented" if you use the same racial thinking applied to Asians, and it is deeply unfair (and deeply surprising) that you seem to support that the same injustice done to Jews historically now be done to Asians.

I don’t support discrimination against anyone based on their race or religion or anything else for that matter. And I know many Asians feel, whether rightly or wrongly, that they are held to a higher standard. But if you want to have an honest discussion about the issue, you need to be honest about the facts. Asians are what, 5-6% of the US population. They make-up over 25% of the student body at almost every top 20 school. And at some of those schools, such as MIT and CMU, they are over half the population. Jews, on the other hand, are 5% or less of the student body at MIT and CMU. CMU doesn’t even have it’s own Hillel anymore— they have to share one with Pitt. And I will add, CMU is only 22% white.
I understand why Asians who don’t get into their top choice of school are upset, especially when they have great credentials. But it’s not exactly fair to say they are being uniformly discriminated against when they are accepted in such high numbers. Just because a student, whether Asian, Jewish, or something else, has perfect grades, test scores, great ECs, etc., doesn’t mean they “deserve” admission. These schools can fill their classes many times over with “perfect” candidates. And I assure you, I know just as many Jews who were “perfect” candidates yet were denied admissions as you do Asians. The admissions office is looking at a whole host of things, including letters of recommendation, essays, etc. You have no idea how each of these “perfect” candidates look when looking at the larger picture. Maybe some write crappy essays. Others might get mediocre teacher recommendations. And some might have ECs that the admissions committee sees through.
And, whether you like it or not, schools don’t want their entire population to be homogeneous. They want diversity in race, religion, gender, socio economic status, etc. So no, they do not want 100% of their student body to be Asian. And nor should they. And nor should any Asian American want to send their kid to a school in the US that is 100% Asian.

I think it's utterly stupid to even consider race on applications. I rather a school be homogenous and not discriminate. Let the best qualified students, be it EC, interview, recommendation letters, etc get into colleges. Stop seeing color.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am quite sure this is not as widespread as the pyschos on this board suggest.

Plenty of Asian parents are fed up with their kids being discriminated against and being held to an impossible standard. The system is rigged against them, why not play the game?

Have you seen the make up of Ivy campuses? My kid was admitted to several T15. Asian kids are over represented. At one Ivy, Asian was the majority race of the admitted students group that day. Stop playing the victim. Many Asian families think there is some recipe to a T15 and now claim discrimination. It's holistic admissions, and every T15 campus has a large cohort of Asian kids. Much larger than population percentages would suggest. Even if these schools filled all their spots with Asian kids, it would still result in overwhelming rejection for most Asian kids.

Same thing happened with Jews many decades ago but now they make up about 25% of Ivy schools when they make up 2% of the population. That is 12 times the population but you don't hear about how Jews are extremely over-represented. Asians make up about 6% of the population and make up about 18% of Ivy schools - approximately 3 times the population.

Without discrimination in college admissions, the % would be about 60% not 18%. There is your discrimination.

Ahh, it’s the anti-Semitic Asian posting again. Get your facts straight. Jews don’t come anywhere close to 25% at the Ivy’s. At best half that and at most it’s lower. And at MIT and CMU, they are only 5% of the population.

And I should add that Asians make up far more than 18% at Ivys. It’s closer to 30% and at MIT and CMU it’s at least 50 % if not more.

You are right, Asian Americans make up 18.4% of all the Ivy universities.

And that is only because the "Harvard" discrimination lawsuit was filed about 11 years ago and Harvard and other Ivy universities slowly but sure increased % of admitted Asian Americans in response to the lawsuit.

The other poster does not address how it is fair for Jews to be 12 times to 25 times more over-represented than the population % is fine and dandy and changes the subject to MIT/CMU but it is horrible that Asian Americans are over-represented by about 3 to 3.5 times over-represented so Asians should shut up about it.

Yes- that PP was an Anti Asian. Shameful how soon they forget their own ordeal and discrimination.

Shameful indeed.

Pull up the ladder behind you!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can’t wait for race to end.

I teach at a school where about half the kids are what you would call “mixed race.” When everybody’s mixed maybe we won’t have to check boxes anymore.

That’s exactly where we are headed as a country.

Given the inequality in housing in the US, the universities have way better proxies (zip code + 4 digit sub code) if they want to identify kids from marginalized backgrounds. No need to rely on race.

but that can be cheated, too. Where resources are "scarce", people will find a way to cheat. Even so, I do think SES is the better way to identify because there are low income neighborhoods in pricier zip codes, like Scotland in Potomac.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am quite sure this is not as widespread as the pyschos on this board suggest.

Plenty of Asian parents are fed up with their kids being discriminated against and being held to an impossible standard. The system is rigged against them, why not play the game?

Have you seen the make up of Ivy campuses? My kid was admitted to several T15. Asian kids are over represented. At one Ivy, Asian was the majority race of the admitted students group that day. Stop playing the victim. Many Asian families think there is some recipe to a T15 and now claim discrimination. It's holistic admissions, and every T15 campus has a large cohort of Asian kids. Much larger than population percentages would suggest. Even if these schools filled all their spots with Asian kids, it would still result in overwhelming rejection for most Asian kids.

Same thing happened with Jews many decades ago but now they make up about 25% of Ivy schools when they make up 2% of the population. That is 12 times the population but you don't hear about how Jews are extremely over-represented. Asians make up about 6% of the population and make up about 18% of Ivy schools - approximately 3 times the population.

Without discrimination in college admissions, the % would be about 60% not 18%. There is your discrimination.

Ahh, it’s the anti-Semitic Asian posting again. Get your facts straight. Jews don’t come anywhere close to 25% at the Ivy’s. At best half that and at most it’s lower. And at MIT and CMU, they are only 5% of the population.

DP: might you be an anti-Asian Jew? What previous PP is saying, be it 12 or 25%, is esentially correct. Jews are "overrepresented" if you use the same racial thinking applied to Asians, and it is deeply unfair (and deeply surprising) that you seem to support that the same injustice done to Jews historically now be done to Asians.

I don’t support discrimination against anyone based on their race or religion or anything else for that matter. And I know many Asians feel, whether rightly or wrongly, that they are held to a higher standard. But if you want to have an honest discussion about the issue, you need to be honest about the facts. Asians are what, 5-6% of the US population. They make-up over 25% of the student body at almost every top 20 school. And at some of those schools, such as MIT and CMU, they are over half the population. Jews, on the other hand, are 5% or less of the student body at MIT and CMU. CMU doesn’t even have it’s own Hillel anymore— they have to share one with Pitt. And I will add, CMU is only 22% white.
I understand why Asians who don’t get into their top choice of school are upset, especially when they have great credentials. But it’s not exactly fair to say they are being uniformly discriminated against when they are accepted in such high numbers. Just because a student, whether Asian, Jewish, or something else, has perfect grades, test scores, great ECs, etc., doesn’t mean they “deserve” admission. These schools can fill their classes many times over with “perfect” candidates. And I assure you, I know just as many Jews who were “perfect” candidates yet were denied admissions as you do Asians. The admissions office is looking at a whole host of things, including letters of recommendation, essays, etc. You have no idea how each of these “perfect” candidates look when looking at the larger picture. Maybe some write crappy essays. Others might get mediocre teacher recommendations. And some might have ECs that the admissions committee sees through.
And, whether you like it or not, schools don’t want their entire population to be homogeneous. They want diversity in race, religion, gender, socio economic status, etc. So no, they do not want 100% of their student body to be Asian. And nor should they. And nor should any Asian American want to send their kid to a school in the US that is 100% Asian.

I think it's utterly stupid to even consider race on applications. I rather a school be homogenous and not discriminate. Let the best qualified students, be it EC, interview, recommendation letters, etc get into colleges. Stop seeing color.

Their idea of qualified is not yours. You would have "qualified " mean all the categories in which you've enriched your kids.

Also, colleges have a duty to create an environment conducive to a rich educational experience, and diversity of student body is and should be a part of that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Our private school (big3) has a mandatory meeting with the college counselor to “fact check” the entire Application, including ECs, awards, sports, etc. I am assuming this also includes race, but maybe not?

But how would that conversation go? The school says, "I see you've checked "mixed race." Are you sure you're really mixed race, because you don't appear to be?" Where in your ancestry did races mix?"

[Anonymous]

My kid seriously has considered going into politics in the future.

There is no way in h*ll he would lie about anything on his applications.

I think of the Supreme Court hearings and presidential and senate races where this stuff comes back to haunt people.

[Anonymous]

My ancestry is 100% European. My spouse is from South America and ancestry is all over the map. So for our kids we check Hispanic for everything in case it ever gives them an advantage in the future.

[Anonymous]

My colleague is Pacific Islander and she had her children check Hispanic/Latinx when applying to college instead of Asian. When I was applying to college my friend whose grandparents immigrated from Germany to Argentina during WWII (prior to moving to North America) identified herself as Hispanic/Latinx on her college applications. People definitely take creative license, but I don't know how widespread that is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kid seriously has considered going into politics in the future.

There is no way in h*ll he would lie about anything on his applications.

I think of the Supreme Court hearings and presidential and senate races where this stuff comes back to haunt people.

This stuff will be ridiculous in just a decade or two, don't worry.

Your kid could actually benefit from having fought it.