s/o - Cheating and Checking Diversity boxes

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Where does the ethnicity stop, though? I'm always so confused about this. I'm 1/2 hispanic via my mother who is 100%. I've always just checked "white" for my kids recognizing that they are more white than hispanic. But am I wrong? My DH is not technically white but there's no box for him.

You’re fretting and overstating the importance of this. When it comes to diversity outreach, the main focus is now and long has been on African Americans. As it should be, since this country has screwed them over in unimaginable ways for hundreds of years. All of this other stuff is just noise. None of you is being denied anything.

Once the liberals opened the Pandora’s Box of racial spoils there was no putting the troubles back in. They said “this race should get this and that because reasons” and the obvious and predictable consequence was other races trying to see what they could also get, because reasons. You can try and dismiss everyone else and tell them to shut up but it’s not going to happen.

SCOTUS will eliminate AA next year so academic.


Colleges should require high-re pictures and conduct detailed analysis of skin pigmentation to root out this unethical behavior.

But as we know, the American rule is “just one drop” makes you diverse, and this cannot necessarily be detected by photos. Everyone will have to submit a detailed genealogy going back many generations!

I'm Asian but 23 and me says I have African and Native American "drops".

I think I'll apply the one drop rule for my family too. Oh wait, they'll say that a black person's one drop caused discrimination against their ancestors so race based affirmative action in 2022 is some sort of absolution of sin type of redemption.

And the discrimination against my kids in 2022 is all in my head.

Your ignorance is appalling. The “one drop of blood” doctrine is not about diversity. It was the doctrine in Jim Crow America that the oppressive restrictions on Black people should also apply to mixed race people.

You’ve demonstrated that you really are too ignorant to opine about race in America.

See bolded. You've demonstrated you lack reading comprehension skills.

Two, I couldn’t make heads or tails of that word salad. If you think that demonstrates poor reading comprehension, then bless your heart.

I was responding to the posted who wrote “ the American rule is “just one drop” makes you diverse.” In fact, the people who invented that concept were t concerned about diversity but so called “racial purity.” They believed that “one drop” meant you could be denied the vote, denied due process, denied education, denied health care, denied housing, unlawfully detained, or lynched with no repercussions whatsoever for your murderers.

Today, the same people who suffered those indignities are still systematically discriminated against in policing (according to a raft of studies funded by police departments), systematically discriminated against by the courts (according to multiple studies funded by top law schools), discriminated against in education, and discriminated against in lending (e.g. Bank of America - whose executives famously joked in 2009 that they made “junk loans to mud people” and who are back in the news again for racial discrimination in 2022). The people who suffered those indignities are locked up for years for talking meanly to police officers (Brittany Martin) while whites who literally tried to overthrow democracy get a few weeks in jail.

But lots of posters on this forum are mad that little Johnny will need to go to a #20 school instead of #19 because (they imagine) of URM admits. They think this is FAR more important than 400 years of ongoing genocide and brutal oppression. Honestly, I’m praying for y’all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This must be verified somehow. My dad tells the story of how he had admission rescinded 45 years ago after check “Native American” in a brain fart (he claims he read “American”.

That was 1979. Surely they review things even more strictly now.

well, today, you can put "female" even if you are really male, and vice versa, so why not your race.

1.) stating gender is different
2.) colleges absolutely can take your diploma (ie: they will say you did not graduate from their school) - if they find out you lied. Which also means you can have a job offer pulled if they find out.
This is only if you make it to graduation without the administration finding out you lied on the application, or most any of their forms, especially admissions. They do not take it lightly.
3.) Either this is a bad troll, or people are more stupid than I ever expected.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I am quite sure this is not as widespread as the pyschos on this board suggest.

Plenty of Asian parents are fed up with their kids being discriminated against and being held to an impossible standard. The system is rigged against them, why not play the game?

Have you seen the make up of Ivy campuses? My kid was admitted to several T15. Asian kids are over represented. At one Ivy, Asian was the majority race of the admitted students group that day. Stop playing the victim. Many Asian families think there is some recipe to a T15 and now claim discrimination. It's holistic admissions, and every T15 campus has a large cohort of Asian kids. Much larger than population percentages would suggest. Even if these schools filled all their spots with Asian kids, it would still result in overwhelming rejection for most Asian kids.

Same thing happened with Jews many decades ago but now they make up about 25% of Ivy schools when they make up 2% of the population. That is 12 times the population but you don't hear about how Jews are extremely over-represented. Asians make up about 6% of the population and make up about 18% of Ivy schools - approximately 3 times the population.

Without discrimination in college admissions, the % would be about 60% not 18%. There is your discrimination.

Ahh, it’s the anti-Semitic Asian posting again. Get your facts straight. Jews don’t come anywhere close to 25% at the Ivy’s. At best half that and at most it’s lower. And at MIT and CMU, they are only 5% of the population.

DP: might you be an anti-Asian Jew? What previous PP is saying, be it 12 or 25%, is esentially correct. Jews are "overrepresented" if you use the same racial thinking applied to Asians, and it is deeply unfair (and deeply surprising) that you seem to support that the same injustice done to Jews historically now be done to Asians.

I don’t support discrimination against anyone based on their race or religion or anything else for that matter. And I know many Asians feel, whether rightly or wrongly, that they are held to a higher standard. But if you want to have an honest discussion about the issue, you need to be honest about the facts. Asians are what, 5-6% of the US population. They make-up over 25% of the student body at almost every top 20 school. And at some of those schools, such as MIT and CMU, they are over half the population. Jews, on the other hand, are 5% or less of the student body at MIT and CMU. CMU doesn’t even have it’s own Hillel anymore— they have to share one with Pitt. And I will add, CMU is only 22% white.
I understand why Asians who don’t get into their top choice of school are upset, especially when they have great credentials. But it’s not exactly fair to say they are being uniformly discriminated against when they are accepted in such high numbers. Just because a student, whether Asian, Jewish, or something else, has perfect grades, test scores, great ECs, etc., doesn’t mean they “deserve” admission. These schools can fill their classes many times over with “perfect” candidates. And I assure you, I know just as many Jews who were “perfect” candidates yet were denied admissions as you do Asians. The admissions office is looking at a whole host of things, including letters of recommendation, essays, etc. You have no idea how each of these “perfect” candidates look when looking at the larger picture. Maybe some write crappy essays. Others might get mediocre teacher recommendations. And some might have ECs that the admissions committee sees through.
And, whether you like it or not, schools don’t want their entire population to be homogeneous. They want diversity in race, religion, gender, socio economic status, etc. So no, they do not want 100% of their student body to be Asian. And nor should they. And nor should any Asian American want to send their kid to a school in the US that is 100% Asian.

Asians are competing against other Asians. Period.

Amazing that people vying for a top school would not know this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Perhaps the form should just ask how someone identifies in terms of race. That way it is an individual decision on what box to check (understanding it may be fluid).

Don't know why all the posters are focused on biology and ancestry.

Rachel Dolezal, anyone?

Yeah, that kind of stunt does not bode well for you and your college admission.

You can't just decide you are something you are not - that is not how it works.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am quite sure this is not as widespread as the pyschos on this board suggest.

Plenty of Asian parents are fed up with their kids being discriminated against and being held to an impossible standard. The system is rigged against them, why not play the game?

Have you seen the make up of Ivy campuses? My kid was admitted to several T15. Asian kids are over represented. At one Ivy, Asian was the majority race of the admitted students group that day. Stop playing the victim. Many Asian families think there is some recipe to a T15 and now claim discrimination. It's holistic admissions, and every T15 campus has a large cohort of Asian kids. Much larger than population percentages would suggest. Even if these schools filled all their spots with Asian kids, it would still result in overwhelming rejection for most Asian kids.

Same thing happened with Jews many decades ago but now they make up about 25% of Ivy schools when they make up 2% of the population. That is 12 times the population but you don't hear about how Jews are extremely over-represented. Asians make up about 6% of the population and make up about 18% of Ivy schools - approximately 3 times the population.

Without discrimination in college admissions, the % would be about 60% not 18%. There is your discrimination.

Ahh, it’s the anti-Semitic Asian posting again. Get your facts straight. Jews don’t come anywhere close to 25% at the Ivy’s. At best half that and at most it’s lower. And at MIT and CMU, they are only 5% of the population.

And I should add that Asians make up far more than 18% at Ivys. It’s closer to 30% and at MIT and CMU it’s at least 50 % if not more.

You are right, Asian Americans make up 18.4% of all the Ivy universities.

And that is only because the "Harvard" discrimination lawsuit was filed about 11 years ago and Harvard and other Ivy universities slowly but sure increased % of admitted Asian Americans in response to the lawsuit.

The other poster does not address how it is fair for Jews to be 12 times to 25 times more over-represented than the population % is fine and dandy and changes the subject to MIT/CMU but it is horrible that Asian Americans are over-represented by about 3 to 3.5 times over-represented so Asians should shut up about it.

Yes- that PP was an Anti Asian. Shameful how soon they forget their own ordeal and discrimination.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am quite sure this is not as widespread as the pyschos on this board suggest.

Plenty of Asian parents are fed up with their kids being discriminated against and being held to an impossible standard. The system is rigged against them, why not play the game?

Have you seen the make up of Ivy campuses? My kid was admitted to several T15. Asian kids are over represented. At one Ivy, Asian was the majority race of the admitted students group that day. Stop playing the victim. Many Asian families think there is some recipe to a T15 and now claim discrimination. It's holistic admissions, and every T15 campus has a large cohort of Asian kids. Much larger than population percentages would suggest. Even if these schools filled all their spots with Asian kids, it would still result in overwhelming rejection for most Asian kids.

Same thing happened with Jews many decades ago but now they make up about 25% of Ivy schools when they make up 2% of the population. That is 12 times the population but you don't hear about how Jews are extremely over-represented. Asians make up about 6% of the population and make up about 18% of Ivy schools - approximately 3 times the population.

Without discrimination in college admissions, the % would be about 60% not 18%. There is your discrimination.

Ahh, it’s the anti-Semitic Asian posting again. Get your facts straight. Jews don’t come anywhere close to 25% at the Ivy’s. At best half that and at most it’s lower. And at MIT and CMU, they are only 5% of the population.

And I should add that Asians make up far more than 18% at Ivys. It’s closer to 30% and at MIT and CMU it’s at least 50 % if not more.

You are right, Asian Americans make up 18.4% of all the Ivy universities.

And that is only because the "Harvard" discrimination lawsuit was filed about 11 years ago and Harvard and other Ivy universities slowly but sure increased % of admitted Asian Americans in response to the lawsuit.

The other poster does not address how it is fair for Jews to be 12 times to 25 times more over-represented than the population % is fine and dandy and changes the subject to MIT/CMU but it is horrible that Asian Americans are over-represented by about 3 to 3.5 times over-represented so Asians should shut up about it.

Yes- that PP was an Anti Asian. Shameful how soon they forget their own ordeal and discrimination.

There is no point discussing this with people unwilling to acknowledge their false narrative. Show me any top school that is 25% Jewish. There are NONE!!!! Jews might be over represented based on their percent of the population. That’s fine. But you are trying to make it sound way more extreme than it is. And talking about MIT and CMU is not a distraction at all. When it comes to STEM they are far superior to any of the Ivys.

[Anonymous]

My DC checked the Hispanic box even though we aren't people who engage in Hispanic culture. His grandmother was Hispanic. That's all you need to check that box.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Where does the ethnicity stop, though? I'm always so confused about this. I'm 1/2 hispanic via my mother who is 100%. I've always just checked "white" for my kids recognizing that they are more white than hispanic. But am I wrong? My DH is not technically white but there's no box for him.

They can be white and Hispanic. White is a race and Hispanic is an ethnicity. Your kids can be marked as Hispanic because they are. They would be eligible for scholarships for Hispanic students.

But when is someone ethnically “Hispanic?” Is someone whose parents came from Argentina and whose ancestors all came from Spain “Hispanic?” What about someone whose parents came from Argentina but whose ancestors came from Italy? What about someone whose parents came directly from Spain? Can someone from Argentina whose last name is Spanish claim to be Hispanic, but someone whose last name is Italian is not? Why in any of these cases should anyone afforded special consideration for acceptance? The whole concept of the term is so vague. Just one example of the slippery slope that racial indentity politics can create.

If colleges are making it vague, they shouldn't be surprised when students claim a race or ethnicity when it doesn't accurately describe them. For example, Obama is black however he was raised most by his white mother and grandparents in a mostly white private school. That didn't make him less black in the eyes of colleges/universities. He didn't have much contact with black culture.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This must be verified somehow. My dad tells the story of how he had admission rescinded 45 years ago after check “Native American” in a brain fart (he claims he read “American”.

That was 1979. Surely they review things even more strictly now.

well, today, you can put "female" even if you are really male, and vice versa, so why not your race.

1.) stating gender is different
2.) colleges absolutely can take your diploma (ie: they will say you did not graduate from their school) - if they find out you lied. Which also means you can have a job offer pulled if they find out.
This is only if you make it to graduation without the administration finding out you lied on the application, or most any of their forms, especially admissions. They do not take it lightly.
3.) Either this is a bad troll, or people are more stupid than I ever expected.

why is it different? Both gender and race are the way you were born and cannot change. But one can decide what race or gender one identifies with. So I don't really see the difference.

[Anonymous]

I can’t wait for race to end.

I teach at a school where about half the kids are what you would call “mixed race.” When everybody’s mixed maybe we won’t have to check boxes anymore.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I can’t wait for race to end.

I teach at a school where about half the kids are what you would call “mixed race.” When everybody’s mixed maybe we won’t have to check boxes anymore.

That’s exactly where we are headed as a country.

Given the inequality in housing in the US, the universities have way better proxies (zip code + 4 digit sub code) if they want to identify kids from marginalized backgrounds. No need to rely on race.

[Anonymous]

Just have your children say that they identify as black, problem solved. If works for the transsexuals...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Just have your children say that they identify as black, problem solved. If works for the transsexuals...

So, you are encouraging lying as well as discrediting LGBTQ people. Piece of work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Where does the ethnicity stop, though? I'm always so confused about this. I'm 1/2 hispanic via my mother who is 100%. I've always just checked "white" for my kids recognizing that they are more white than hispanic. But am I wrong? My DH is not technically white but there's no box for him.

They can be white and Hispanic. White is a race and Hispanic is an ethnicity. Your kids can be marked as Hispanic because they are. They would be eligible for scholarships for Hispanic students.

But when is someone ethnically “Hispanic?” Is someone whose parents came from Argentina and whose ancestors all came from Spain “Hispanic?” What about someone whose parents came from Argentina but whose ancestors came from Italy? What about someone whose parents came directly from Spain? Can someone from Argentina whose last name is Spanish claim to be Hispanic, but someone whose last name is Italian is not? Why in any of these cases should anyone afforded special consideration for acceptance? The whole concept of the term is so vague. Just one example of the slippery slope that racial indentity politics can create.

Nobody is ethnically Hispanic! Hispanic is a term that means you grew up in a Spanish-speaking country. Latino means you grew up in Latin America.

You can be white and blond and blue eyed with a name like Emily and check Hispanic and Latina and it’s 100% okay provided you did grow up speaking Spanish in a Latin American country.

We discussed this elsewhere on this board recently, in the Pfizer fellowship thread. I know someone who pretty much fits the description (more than one person, actually — there are a lot of Americans who had kids while working for Fortune 500 companies in Latin America!) and everyone agreed that they qualified for the fellowship which is restricted to Hispanic, indigenous, and Black applicants. They ARE Hispanic Latinos! It’s only Americans who imagine that Latinos and Hispanics as necessarily non white.

[Anonymous]

Nobody is ethnically Hispanic!

Sorry, that’s misphrased — it should read, anyone can be ethnically Hispanic, regardless of racial or ethnic ancestry.