Can you tell me about upscale southern culture?

[Anonymous]

Are there asian/black/Spanish/ people in the upscale southern culture? If so, do you posters admire them as well?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Southerner here. Agree with all of the above. IME, and I am middle-aged---all of my HS and college friends who were more liberal, liked to travel, and did not embrace the lifestyles described above elected to move away from the South.

With that said, almost any southern city of any size has its own little enclave of liberal eclectics, many of whom are from that same UMC culture but elected to be more bohemian. They like to travel, throw great parties, and are hilarious, sardonic and self-deprecating storytellers. See www.bittersoutherner.com for an example of this type.

+1 it’s a whole different culture. They look at a lot of international travel or intellectual or artistic pursuits as bohemian and extravagant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Are there asian/black/Spanish/ people in the upscale southern culture? If so, do you posters admire them as well?

Pp here. I am a Pakistani immigrant and I’m the first non-white to marry into this family. Let’s just say it was a huge shock. But I did go to school at UVA so I was aware of some of the cultural norms.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a person descended from poor white trash who went to southern private schools for 16 years, both k-12 and college, I am an outside observer on the subject of southern rich people.

Some are casually racist, some are not. Usually the richer and more well educated they are, the less classist and racist they are (in my experience) and try to make everyone feel welcome.

The warnings:

If the family welcomes all family members, they will usually have a number of eccentric family members they are fine with. And gay uncle Larlo and his partner Miles, for example, will be invited and embraced at family events, even if they aren't completely out. See, at least partially: a famous politician from SC.

Not all rich southern families are casually racist, but again, those with less money and less education than others are more likely to be racist than the richer, more educated families.

Beware any rich southerners who are still South Baptist or evangelical--they are the most likely to be racist. Episcopalians and Presbyterians, less so.

If I were your DD, I would plan for a longer engagement--she will need it if planning a large wedding that includes the groom's whole family and their old friends.

The one thing I have seen trip up people who marry into rich "old" southern families are the expectations: she needs to figure out what expectations there may be before actually getting married.

Does his family expect them to go to the family vacation house every single year, no matter what?
Does his family expect the couple to live near them, no matter what?

Does his family expect her to dress and act a particular way? (for example, many of the wealthier southern women I know have a fairly strict unwritten dress code, unless they are considered "eccentric.") It's fine to be eccentric, but there will be pressure to conform, which may continue on if they family is really conservative.

Does his family expect women to stay home and not work after they have children? Do any of his female family members work after having children?

If his family is old southern money, they are used to getting what they want. Your dd needs to observe his family and especially the female relatives, to see if there are any expectations they might not be talking about, which they assume everyone knows about already.

I've known really welcoming, wonderful, generous "old money" southern families, and then I've known others that could have stepped out of a southern gothic novel from the 1950s.

I’m the poster from above who married into a UC Southern family and every word of this is spot-on. Well done.

Thanks, my private school education was not in vain!

My mother comes from an old UC Mississippi family, and I agree. Spot on.

I would also add that there can be generational differences. Younger generations can be less racist and more open. It's not universal, though. Some of my young adult cousins would consider themselves not racist, but they just never question (or even seem to notice) their own privilege and the racial status quo of the deep south. Others have really worked to shed much of that baggage.

I’m from one of these families (First Families of Virginia/ DAR) but my grandparents and parents were the eccentrics/ hippies. So we still do the things like thank you notes and cotillion but we also do civil rights protests and pride parades. The eccentrics will tell the story. If they are true to form, your family should be invited to the holiday parties and summer house during the engagement. Chat up the old ladies in hats. If there is drinking, stay sober and listen. For the spouses of lawyers a lot of entertaining/ business networking is expected. Or your dd could go the eccentric route and have her own career. This will require her husband to be comfortable being robbed about that and standing up for her.

She could suggest she might want to keep her name and see how that goes over. That can be a great preview into how charged issues are handled. I kept my name, but my husband has a last name that starts with the same letter, so there was no impact on the monograms 😂

[Anonymous]

You mean the descendants of slave owners?

[Anonymous]

They monogram EVERYTHING and have extremely good manners.

I have close family that are EXACTLY as op and many in this thread describe. They are very kind and giving people, and very religious but not uptight religious.

Lawn care and porches are a big deal also. Also boats on the lake at the lake house.

No one here will believe me, but they are not racist. Totally shocked, they are not. Being racist would be unseemly and vulgar and embarrassing to them. They are extremely well off and the kind of people who would rather die than be thought rude or crass. It’s a trip.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I married into an upper-class Southern family but my own relatives are working-class Northerners. I’ve heard wayyyyyy more casual racism from my Northerner relatives than from my ILs.

This is America, northern people are racist too! But even though I was born in, I’ve only seen the real real racism a few times involving alcohol and one time I think they just forgot I was not “one of them” for a bit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm interested in the above question too

But also ... not very worldly and U.S focused. Why is this a thing? The older I get, the more disappointed I am in friends who value "scholarship", believe they are scholars, have the means, and don't value world travel. In many cases these are people in positions that influence US/International policy. And they don't value world travel? Sic!

Because they're happy where they are.

[Anonymous]

Is your DD religious or willing to fake it?(Most down here fake it). North Carolina here - marrying into old money southern families means you must attend their church. MUST.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Are there asian/black/Spanish/ people in the upscale southern culture? If so, do you posters admire them as well?

Of course there are wealthy Southern people of these demographics, but this is not the group OP is discussing. Go troll somewhere else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You mean the descendants of slave owners?

What are you a descendant of, PP? Please list every relative on your family tree, at least 10 generations back, and what they did for a living.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m married into a WASP-ish/Southern-ish family.

Some of the lifestyle elements include:

- dressy and dressy casual most of the time. Khaki shorts and polos for men and sun dresses for women
- pearl earrings and minimal accessories
- minimal makeup and unfussy hair but long lean athletic tanned bodies
- Think Brooks brothers, J Crew, Talbots, Vineyard Vines
- lots of family time and large family vacations
- Sailboat motifs in decorating
- extravagant decorating and a focus on keeping a beautiful home
- not very worldly and U.S focused
- pride in classic all American life and experience
- haunts include Charleston, Nantucket and Rhode Island
- family business is finance and sales

the two I bolded are interesting- I do not agree about the lean bodies have several in my family are of this "ilk" and while they are not obese they are pleasantly plump two are larger women but both athletic so the long lean is a bit of generalization. Many at my club also are fit but larger sized certainly not thin. In other words many waspy Southern woman are put together but not necessarily thin. I think you find that to be much. more widespread say in affluent Jewish circles where women seem to have a borderline obsession with weight.

The part about all things American and not being worldly is so fascinating to me but right on the money. Its true, they often will not travel abroad the way say, many Jewish families do. I don't understand it, they are quite happy to stay in the U.S. and many even the super wealthy ones (my own family a good example) have not been to Europe. Yes, guess it has a lot to do with pride of being an American and not feeling the need to leave U.S. soil.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Quintessential genteel southern family

What? No. They’re not Southern, they’re Texan.

[Anonymous]

So you assumed all of us from the south are stupid, illiterate bumpkins?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Quintessential genteel southern family

What? No. They’re not Southern, they’re Texan.

The Bush family is originally from New Haven, CT. They are not Southern. His wife is Texan. Still not Southern.

Also, Southern families love college football.