Coming to terms with paying so much for an unmotivated student who hates college?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:George Bush Jr’s advice to 2.0 students:

https://youtu.be/FcSa_S8tlNc

Good advice for regular Joes! Grades don’t matter... when you’re born into American aristocracy and attend most elite boarding school, most elite college and most elite business college.

Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, and Zuckerberg were drop outs not born to American aristocracy. Jobs background was part Syrian, a refugee country.

Oh, puhhleeaze! Cut the propaganda already!
Zuckerberg attended Exeter and dropped out of Harvard having stolen Facebook from the Winklevosses.
And Jobs and Gates rode the IT wave some 40 years ago.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP you committed to pay for college. Your son is making his own choices. If he isn't super motivated it's all the more important he get that degree. If the school thought he was unworthy they'd be kicking him out. Use a tough love approach and by that I mean the opposite: shower him with love and let him know how much you care about him and his future and keep the dialog open. Encourage or require him to start visiting his career center to start thinking ahead.

As long as the checks clear, schools want the cash, and they have systematically lowered rigor and removed requirements (https://edsource.org/2017/cal-state-drops-intermediate-algebra-requirement-allows-other-math-courses/585595), so really, anyone who doesn't physically leave campus can plow through a BA. Most students I see "kicked out" were on financial aid and either stopped attending classes and/or completion percentages or grant/loan limits were exhausted.

Your link just suggests that non-math/science majors can take statistic, computer science or finance course instead of intermediate algebra reqs. I think it's dumb for a school to instead that every student master a specific sphere of math and IMO statistics is a lot more useful than scraping by in a "pure math" class. It might have been motivated by the math serving as a barrier to graduation/success, but it also makes more sense (I'm in STEM btw so nothing against math--just don't think pure math is the sole marker of rigor). I don't buy your narrative.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP you committed to pay for college. Your son is making his own choices. If he isn't super motivated it's all the more important he get that degree. If the school thought he was unworthy they'd be kicking him out. Use a tough love approach and by that I mean the opposite: shower him with love and let him know how much you care about him and his future and keep the dialog open. Encourage or require him to start visiting his career center to start thinking ahead.

As long as the checks clear, schools want the cash, and they have systematically lowered rigor and removed requirements (https://edsource.org/2017/cal-state-drops-intermediate-algebra-requirement-allows-other-math-courses/585595), so really, anyone who doesn't physically leave campus can plow through a BA. Most students I see "kicked out" were on financial aid and either stopped attending classes and/or completion percentages or grant/loan limits were exhausted.

So are you saying it's up to parents now to determine if their kid is worthy of a degree? Maybe the bar is lower now. So what? The degree is important. OP I know two people who left school shy of *one* class to graduate. They never completed their degree.

[Anonymous]

Get the degree! College degree now is equivalent to HS degree back then. It's necessary.

Everything going on now may dissipate next semester, year or 5 years from now. Plenty of kids grind and do very well in college. Many are spent post degree so they travel, live and love for a while before adulting. Many take lots of paths and wind up in the same place. Job, significant other, marriage, family. The linear path isn't good for anyone. I would have died with an A to B route. I got there on my own terms and had some really fun detours.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP you committed to pay for college. Your son is making his own choices. If he isn't super motivated it's all the more important he get that degree. If the school thought he was unworthy they'd be kicking him out. Use a tough love approach and by that I mean the opposite: shower him with love and let him know how much you care about him and his future and keep the dialog open. Encourage or require him to start visiting his career center to start thinking ahead.

As long as the checks clear, schools want the cash, and they have systematically lowered rigor and removed requirements (https://edsource.org/2017/cal-state-drops-intermediate-algebra-requirement-allows-other-math-courses/585595), so really, anyone who doesn't physically leave campus can plow through a BA. Most students I see "kicked out" were on financial aid and either stopped attending classes and/or completion percentages or grant/loan limits were exhausted.

Your link just suggests that non-math/science majors can take statistic, computer science or finance course instead of intermediate algebra reqs. I think it's dumb for a school to instead that every student master a specific sphere of math and IMO statistics is a lot more useful than scraping by in a "pure math" class. It might have been motivated by the math serving as a barrier to graduation/success, but it also makes more sense (I'm in STEM btw so nothing against math--just don't think pure math is the sole marker of rigor). I don't buy your narrative.

Look sweetie, the algebra diploma mills are removing from requisites is equivalent to 10th grade algebra 2. The entire motive isn’t more “practical” courses (that’s spin), it’s to keep physical morons enrolled and graduating. It’s a naked scam.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes! Be happy he's still chugging along. A lot of people would be dropping out. What do they call the person with the lowest gpa who graduates? A GRADUATE! Someone like him with lower ambition really needs that degree, so keep supporting him. And you know what? He may end up much happier than someone who is completely driven. Life is long; balance is good.

Yes! This exactly. Having a college degree is still the filter for a huge number of jobs in this country, including the ones who don't need one to do the job. I saw one the other day. Data Entry Clerk. Filter? College degree. Don't demand something of him that could hugely backfire. He's passing his classes and has not dropped out. There will be very few if any jobs that will ask to see his grades in earning his Bachelor's degree. Most jobs will only care that he has one.

Just try to keep him motivated to cross the finish line with Cs. As the other poster said, C's get degrees. If later he decides he wants a graduate degree, he can talk to why his grades were lower then but he's now motivated to pursue a higher degree.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What does he like, OP?

College grades only really matter if you are going to grad school. Otherwise, yes, he needs to just cross that finish line. Is there a line of work he likes that he could pursue while he's in school? Internships that sort of thing? Because his next stop is employment. Focus on that.

Do employers not look at colelge GPA during the interview process?

[Anonymous]

Everyone should be thrilled that grades don’t matter!!
Imagine a world in which your college grades mattered for your job prospect??! No.

Experience matters. Internships should matter. Reputation should matter. Personality should matter. Work ethic should matter. How you “click” with the hiring managers matters. Your college name matters.

Your grade in Art History doesn’t and I’m so glad. Our students are better for it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Everyone should be thrilled that grades don’t matter!!
Imagine a world in which your college grades mattered for your job prospect??! No.

Experience matters. Internships should matter. Reputation should matter. Personality should matter. Work ethic should matter. How you “click” with the hiring managers matters. Your college name matters.

Your grade in Art History doesn’t and I’m so glad. Our students are better for it.

Nice strawman. No one is saying "Grades don't matter".

What they are saying is getting the degree with poor grades is a better outcome than not getting the degree at all and destroying your relationship with your kid in the process.

Understand now, The Great Santini?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP you committed to pay for college. Your son is making his own choices. If he isn't super motivated it's all the more important he get that degree. If the school thought he was unworthy they'd be kicking him out. Use a tough love approach and by that I mean the opposite: shower him with love and let him know how much you care about him and his future and keep the dialog open. Encourage or require him to start visiting his career center to start thinking ahead.

OP, have you thought of sending him to an accredited college overseas? The reason I am saying this is that he might be totally overwhelmed by the way American education is especially at the tertiary level. There is no teaching involved. The professor/TA gives students the course syllabus and it's the students responsibility to do and submit the work by the specified deadline. This is true for every subject in most colleges where there is minimal or no direct teaching.
Colleges overseas are different. The professors explain even if the class size is very large.
My child is doing well in college but he cannot fathom how he is supposed to do everything on his own. So he gets help from an outside tutor --- just like several of his classmates.
Have you asked him if it is simple disinterest of just a workload on steroids?
Let me give you an example for a history (elective) class.
1. Watch a movie every week.
2. Read 4-5 articles posted on the website.
3- answer questions referring to the articles.
4. Write a 300-350 word essay analyzing a clip in the movie using information from the readings.
This, in addition to quizzes, tests and exams.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP you committed to pay for college. Your son is making his own choices. If he isn't super motivated it's all the more important he get that degree. If the school thought he was unworthy they'd be kicking him out. Use a tough love approach and by that I mean the opposite: shower him with love and let him know how much you care about him and his future and keep the dialog open. Encourage or require him to start visiting his career center to start thinking ahead.

As long as the checks clear, schools want the cash, and they have systematically lowered rigor and removed requirements (https://edsource.org/2017/cal-state-drops-intermediate-algebra-requirement-allows-other-math-courses/585595), so really, anyone who doesn't physically leave campus can plow through a BA. Most students I see "kicked out" were on financial aid and either stopped attending classes and/or completion percentages or grant/loan limits were exhausted.

Your link just suggests that non-math/science majors can take statistic, computer science or finance course instead of intermediate algebra reqs. I think it's dumb for a school to instead that every student master a specific sphere of math and IMO statistics is a lot more useful than scraping by in a "pure math" class. It might have been motivated by the math serving as a barrier to graduation/success, but it also makes more sense (I'm in STEM btw so nothing against math--just don't think pure math is the sole marker of rigor). I don't buy your narrative.

Look sweetie, the algebra diploma mills are removing from requisites is equivalent to 10th grade algebra 2. The entire motive isn’t more “practical” courses (that’s spin), it’s to keep physical morons enrolled and graduating. It’s a naked scam.

my child's 7th grade Algebra 1 teacher told us that the middle schoolers performed 12% better on an assessment than his college students on the same topic.

[Anonymous]

I’ve seen at least 1 student who killed himself at my D’s HS. His letter specifically points out the academic pressure that did it, the meanness of certain teachers... A person is not a loser if he can’t go to a certain college, or to maintain a certain gpa or test score. Be kind to your child. If he is struggling, it never hurts to have a talk with hin to ask what you can do to help. Threatening to send to CC is not the solution.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What does he like, OP?

College grades only really matter if you are going to grad school. Otherwise, yes, he needs to just cross that finish line. Is there a line of work he likes that he could pursue while he's in school? Internships that sort of thing? Because his next stop is employment. Focus on that.

Do employers not look at colelge GPA during the interview process?

College kid with no mention of GPA or any tier of honors or dean’s list on resume and LinkedIn is incredibly suspect. Unless parents have connections, GPA most certainly matters to score internships and first job. And OP said the kid is uninvolved at college too, so it’s not like this kid is setting the world on fire outside of the classroom to demonstrate promise. Sounds like lazy pot head.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why not lay down the gauntlet?

He needs X GPA next semester or he’s coming home and doing a semester at community college. Then he needs to have CC gpa of at least 3.5 before you will agree to pay for college again. He can keep trying at community college for a year. After that he needs a job and pays rent orgets kicked out.

Exactly. A "C" is for Community College. End of discussion. You want my money, you put school first. You want to socialize and skate by, you pay.

I am faced with a different situation: a super high performing kid who will probably get into Harvard and want to go. But her disrespect and regular rude behavior toward me, combined with the fact that she barely will have a conversation or do anything with me, is so hurtful that I am about to tell her she is completely on her own s far as college tuition unless there is a serious change. My heart is literally shattered over the way she makes me feel.

I may start a thread on this to get some input from those wiser than me. Oh well...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why not lay down the gauntlet?

He needs X GPA next semester or he’s coming home and doing a semester at community college. Then he needs to have CC gpa of at least 3.5 before you will agree to pay for college again. He can keep trying at community college for a year. After that he needs a job and pays rent orgets kicked out.

Exactly. A "C" is for Community College. End of discussion. You want my money, you put school first. You want to socialize and skate by, you pay.

I am faced with a different situation: a super high performing kid who will probably get into Harvard and want to go. But her disrespect and regular rude behavior toward me, combined with the fact that she barely will have a conversation or do anything with me, is so hurtful that I am about to tell her she is completely on her own s far as college tuition unless there is a serious change. My heart is literally shattered over the way she makes me feel.

I may start a thread on this to get some input from those wiser than me. Oh well...

Nobody will think you should pull college. That is ridiculous.