Separating after 20+ years married. Alimony?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why is there so much antipathy towards people in marriages who choose to take care of their children as their primary and best use of their time on earth. We only get one shot at parenthood. Children are our legacy on earth when we die. The total lack of respect for people who choose to prioritize their time for their family over earning more money is shocking to me.

I agree with you, but I also recognize that we live in a society that makes it very risky for a person to stay home for a long period of time, for all the reasons described in this thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why is there so much antipathy towards people in marriages who choose to take care of their children as their primary and best use of their time on earth. We only get one shot at parenthood. Children are our legacy on earth when we die. The total lack of respect for people who choose to prioritize their time for their family over earning more money is shocking to me.

Plus one. what a backward society we live in where people only think a woman's Worth is contributing to a capitalist system and not spending quality time raising her children. This isn't to say, of course, that working mothers aren't also great mothers. But it's absolutely bonkers that we don't put equal or higher value on women who choose to devote their time raising their children.

and it's only women who attacked like this. Men don't look down on stay-at-home parents the same way

[Anonymous]

I have worked all but 2 years of my adult life but I think these anti alimony women are nuts.

Children need their parents time, not shoved off in daycare for 12 hours a day. That means one parent needs to step out of the full rat race. Either DHor I have worked PT since our child was born.

Many high earner men want SAHM wives until they get bored with them. SaHs contribute greatly to a family's well being. The working parent cant try to offload their spouse at almost 60 and get away with it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have worked all but 2 years of my adult life but I think these anti alimony women are nuts.

Children need their parents time, not shoved off in daycare for 12 hours a day. That means one parent needs to step out of the full rat race. Either DHor I have worked PT since our child was born.

Many high earner men want SAHM wives until they get bored with them. SaHs contribute greatly to a family's well being. The working parent cant try to offload their spouse at almost 60 and get away with it.

This is what people don't get -

THERE IS A HAPPY MEDIUM BETWEEN LEAVING THE WORKFORCE COMPLETELY AND ENDING UP DESTITUTE AND PUTTING AN INFANT IN DAYCARE FOR 12 HOURS A DAY.

And I'm guessing pretty much every successful working woman on this board has found that. SAHMs don't see how this is possible because a) they left the workforce before gaining enough seniority to have any flexibility etc and/or it was long enough ago that they don't realize how far flexibility and teleworking have come or b) their husband tells them how impossible working is as an excuse to do nothing around the house and because they have no other frame of reference, they believe him.

[Anonymous]

If he tries to screw you with alimony you should sue for unpaid wages.

You were married AND you worked at the business. It’s half yours. Anything less is unacceptable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have worked all but 2 years of my adult life but I think these anti alimony women are nuts.

Children need their parents time, not shoved off in daycare for 12 hours a day. That means one parent needs to step out of the full rat race. Either DHor I have worked PT since our child was born.

Many high earner men want SAHM wives until they get bored with them. SaHs contribute greatly to a family's well being. The working parent cant try to offload their spouse at almost 60 and get away with it.

OP we. This is my situation. My higher earning DH just wants out. He’s tired of me. And as I’ve said before I did not SAH I was in the office or working remotely every day even when on vacation. I agree with the poster who said maybe I should sue for back wages. But I don’t want to be contentious. I just want to part ways but after all these years and at my age it’s not fair he can retire soon and I have to start all over. Unfortunately we don’t have much assets to split. We poured everything in the business. Which now is doing pretty well. He will continue to reap the steady flow of income and I’m left with very little in form of retirement account etc.

[Anonymous]

OP, early on I said consult a lawyer. The remainder of this thread only reinforces that.

If you have a large income differential and have been married for 20 years, you will almost certainly get alimony. In Virginia, the formula with minor children is 28% of his income minus 58% of yours. Where it can get tricky is imputing your income capability if you don’t currently work. Child support is also formulaic— and you get more if you have physical custody.

In Virginia, a judge would likely award lifetime alimony for marriages of more than 20 years absent proof of adultery or constructive desertion (even in a no-fault case).

You live in Maryland and I don’t know the laws there. But please spend the $400 or so for a lawyer consultation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is my brother and SILs dynamic.

She was a preschool teacher and she quit when she got pregnant. My brother has always been the breadwinner and person who pays for all expenses, bills, everything.

They then had 5 kids (including a set of twins) in 5 years! At one point she was home with all 5 kids for a year before the oldest went to school. Basically for almost ten years she had young kids at home and for half that time she was pregnant and for about 7 years she was breastfeeding.

Then once all the kids were in school - she did all the house and kid stuff that was during the day. She also volunteered and did errands. My brother has always done all the evening and weekend activities.

It works for them in some ways but she is 20 years in and has never worked and really doesn't fully get the money piece. She always wants more money from my brother to redecorate the house or buy new furniture or a plan a trip or get new x y or z. My brother on the other side feels immense pressure to save for college and to have money put aside for any major issue as there is no back up to him.

Well, what exactly did your brother think was going to happen with 5 kids? They would need a full time nanny or someone stays home. Unless his wife makes a lot of money, the cost for a nanny is a wash.

I work, my wife stays home. She is an equal member of the team and if we were to split, she should get half plus alimony for a period of time while she gets her feet under her. Lifetime alimony, no but rehabilitative yes. Her staying home was a mutual decision.

Why not lifetime?

Because she is able to work and should work. Were you being rhetorical?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have worked all but 2 years of my adult life but I think these anti alimony women are nuts.

Children need their parents time, not shoved off in daycare for 12 hours a day. That means one parent needs to step out of the full rat race. Either DHor I have worked PT since our child was born.

Many high earner men want SAHM wives until they get bored with them. SaHs contribute greatly to a family's well being. The working parent cant try to offload their spouse at almost 60 and get away with it.

OP we. This is my situation. My higher earning DH just wants out. He’s tired of me. And as I’ve said before I did not SAH I was in the office or working remotely every day even when on vacation. I agree with the poster who said maybe I should sue for back wages. But I don’t want to be contentious. I just want to part ways but after all these years and at my age it’s not fair he can retire soon and I have to start all over. Unfortunately we don’t have much assets to split. We poured everything in the business. Which now is doing pretty well. He will continue to reap the steady flow of income and I’m left with very little in form of retirement account etc.

Actually, it sounds like alimony would be counterproductive. Make him buy you out from the business. Start with the premise that it belongs to both of you because it does.

Seriously, you need to see a lawyer. You own 50% of that business - he can’t have it unless he buys you out. That’s not contentious, that’s reality. Also - if you weren’t part owner and a partner in the business - he was breaking all sorts of labor laws by not having you on the books and paying you at least minimum wage. Family businesses are exempt from a lot of regulation because they benefit the family, it’s not intended as a vehicle for modern day slavery.

[Anonymous]

^ The business is a marital asset just like the home you live in and the cars you drive are marital assets.

Don’t get screwed by giving away the most valuable asset created during your marriage. That’s insanity. You need to talk to a lawyer right away.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is my brother and SILs dynamic.

She was a preschool teacher and she quit when she got pregnant. My brother has always been the breadwinner and person who pays for all expenses, bills, everything.

They then had 5 kids (including a set of twins) in 5 years! At one point she was home with all 5 kids for a year before the oldest went to school. Basically for almost ten years she had young kids at home and for half that time she was pregnant and for about 7 years she was breastfeeding.

Then once all the kids were in school - she did all the house and kid stuff that was during the day. She also volunteered and did errands. My brother has always done all the evening and weekend activities.

It works for them in some ways but she is 20 years in and has never worked and really doesn't fully get the money piece. She always wants more money from my brother to redecorate the house or buy new furniture or a plan a trip or get new x y or z. My brother on the other side feels immense pressure to save for college and to have money put aside for any major issue as there is no back up to him.

Well, what exactly did your brother think was going to happen with 5 kids? They would need a full time nanny or someone stays home. Unless his wife makes a lot of money, the cost for a nanny is a wash.

I work, my wife stays home. She is an equal member of the team and if we were to split, she should get half plus alimony for a period of time while she gets her feet under her. Lifetime alimony, no but rehabilitative yes. Her staying home was a mutual decision.

Why not lifetime?

Because she is able to work and should work. Were you being rhetorical?

Yes, she is able to work, but her earning potential was affected negatively by all of the years at home taking care of their kids. Why should she alone take the hit for that? They should both take the hit for that.

Therefore, it seems to me that lifetime alimony would be reasonable, or maybe full alimony for the time needed for her to get into the workforce, after which the ex-husband should give her enough alimony to make up the difference between whatever she is able to earn, and whatever he actually earns.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is there so much antipathy towards people in marriages who choose to take care of their children as their primary and best use of their time on earth. We only get one shot at parenthood. Children are our legacy on earth when we die. The total lack of respect for people who choose to prioritize their time for their family over earning more money is shocking to me.

I too find the reaction surprising. I’m assuming it’s just a few extreme posters but who knows.

Life is complicated and families have to do all sorts of things to keep everyone happy and healthy. To say both parents working full time is the only viable option is completely naive. Both DH and I work, but it’s only because we are sr. enough to have flexibility and make enough money to outsource a ton of stuff. Without the flexibility and money it would be extremely difficult.

Because you can still take care of your kids when you work

Because we don’t want to see other women end up like OP having done this for 25 years only to end up early 50s, no skills, no work history, no money of her own, nothing paid into social security, etc. looking down how to start over again with very little to help her.

The reality is, you can’t predict how life will pan out. Focusing on your family is something we all do. But just sitting in your house running carpool and helping your husband build HIS a career isn’t going to help you in the event your life goes belly up. Husbands die and as OP is living, husbands leave. You can’t leave your fate in their hands because you wanted to stay home and read picture books and do Play Doh. It’s just unwise.

I’m the pp and I work full time. Both DH and I care for and love our kids dearly, but there is no doubt that they don’t get the same amount of time and attention in our current situation as compared to one of us staying home. You simplify the situation too much by distilling it down to an issue about carpooling. That calculation is easy. It become much more complicated if your child is having academic or emotional issues.

There are trade offs to both parents working and we regularly evaluate the cost and benefits of those trade offs. So far it makes sense for both of us to continue working full time, but as the needs of our kids change the calculation may change. I would be doing myself and my family a disservice if I wasn’t open and honest about the pros and cons.

Yes, spouses die but that is why everyone should get life insurance once they have kids. I would also insist on a postnuptial agreement if one of us decided to stay home.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is there so much antipathy towards people in marriages who choose to take care of their children as their primary and best use of their time on earth. We only get one shot at parenthood. Children are our legacy on earth when we die. The total lack of respect for people who choose to prioritize their time for their family over earning more money is shocking to me.

Plus one. what a backward society we live in where people only think a woman's Worth is contributing to a capitalist system and not spending quality time raising her children. This isn't to say, of course, that working mothers aren't also great mothers. But it's absolutely bonkers that we don't put equal or higher value on women who choose to devote their time raising their children.

and it's only women who attacked like this. Men don't look down on stay-at-home parents the same way

Yes we do. Anyone who uses up social resources doing something like getting a medical or law degree and then sits on their ass at home is not just making their family worse-off, but making the entire country worse-off.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have worked all but 2 years of my adult life but I think these anti alimony women are nuts.

Children need their parents time, not shoved off in daycare for 12 hours a day. That means one parent needs to step out of the full rat race. Either DHor I have worked PT since our child was born.

Many high earner men want SAHM wives until they get bored with them. SaHs contribute greatly to a family's well being. The working parent cant try to offload their spouse at almost 60 and get away with it.

OP we. This is my situation. My higher earning DH just wants out. He’s tired of me. And as I’ve said before I did not SAH I was in the office or working remotely every day even when on vacation. I agree with the poster who said maybe I should sue for back wages. But I don’t want to be contentious. I just want to part ways but after all these years and at my age it’s not fair he can retire soon and I have to start all over. Unfortunately we don’t have much assets to split. We poured everything in the business. Which now is doing pretty well. He will continue to reap the steady flow of income and I’m left with very little in form of retirement account etc.

Actually, it sounds like alimony would be counterproductive. Make him buy you out from the business. Start with the premise that it belongs to both of you because it does.

Seriously, you need to see a lawyer. You own 50% of that business - he can’t have it unless he buys you out. That’s not contentious, that’s reality. Also - if you weren’t part owner and a partner in the business - he was breaking all sorts of labor laws by not having you on the books and paying you at least minimum wage. Family businesses are exempt from a lot of regulation because they benefit the family, it’s not intended as a vehicle for modern day slavery.

+1 And right now secure some assets so you can afford a lawyer. It's my understanding that in most states you should be able to draw upon joint assets to pay lawyers, but I know many people who get shut out of accounts by the main earner and then don't have money to pay a retainer to get a lawyer so they can't fight for access to joint assets and get completely screwed by a spouse who can afford the lawyer.

[Anonymous]

If there is not much in the way of retirement, your ex is not very smart. The business is probably worth a lot less than you think. If it were me, I would buy you out of a business that probably has old equipment. Divorce, retire and start again with new everything. Be prepared to be shocked at the value of the business. You would have been better saving money. Like momma said, nothing is like cash in hand.