Honestly interested in sending child away

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hi OP. I hope this will help. My parents sent me away to Shepard Pratt when I was about your daughter's age. I think I stayed around 90 days. I was not SN and I have a high IQ. My diagnosis was depression. I was treated with Prozac.

It was awful and my relationship with my parents never recovered. Even to this day I believe my diagnosis was off. I'll cop to OCD and an anxiety disorder, for sure. But not depression. It was basically like prison and I hated every moment of it. I felt shame, embarrassment and completely unloved.

The reason my parents sent me sound similar to yours. I was experiencing huge hormone shifts in addition to my OCD and anxiety and frankly, I had parents that had no clue how to help me deal with it. They were extremely rigid in their expectations and unwilling to find a way to work with me.

I look back on my life in amazement that I didn't end up worse off. Everything I've accomplished has been in spite of my traumatic upbringing and I know I could've been destined for much greater things with the help of a supportive and loving family. I mourn that loss every day.

It sounds like your needs were complex. That is not your fault, but not their fault either. It also sounds like they tried to get you professional treatment as a way of helping you. I’m sorry that it did not help and made you feel worse. Parents are not doctors, magicians, or therapists. They do not come trained to deal with complicated emotional issues. Perhaps there is more that your parents did to traumatize you that you haven’t shared. From what you have shared, it’s unclear how they failed you so dramatically. If there is something obvious that they missed, we would all benefit from hearing it, so that we can do better.

[Anonymous]

I'll adopt your kid. I'm serious. I can help her have a wonderful life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No real mention of school performance here. Your comments indicate you think she is "not smart." but don't mention discipline problems in school. If the teachers have her under good control then the issue is your parenting. There is no magic bullet. Consistency tempered with lots of love and feedback (mostly positive) is the key.

OP is ill-equipped for this. She doesn't love the child. It is what it is, without judgement. This child needs a loving family/team who has skills and patience to guide her through her massive difficulties. OP is done. This isn't what she signed up for in having children. She can't do it anymore.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hi OP. I hope this will help. My parents sent me away to Shepard Pratt when I was about your daughter's age. I think I stayed around 90 days. I was not SN and I have a high IQ. My diagnosis was depression. I was treated with Prozac.

It was awful and my relationship with my parents never recovered. Even to this day I believe my diagnosis was off. I'll cop to OCD and an anxiety disorder, for sure. But not depression. It was basically like prison and I hated every moment of it. I felt shame, embarrassment and completely unloved.

The reason my parents sent me sound similar to yours. I was experiencing huge hormone shifts in addition to my OCD and anxiety and frankly, I had parents that had no clue how to help me deal with it. They were extremely rigid in their expectations and unwilling to find a way to work with me.

I look back on my life in amazement that I didn't end up worse off. Everything I've accomplished has been in spite of my traumatic upbringing and I know I could've been destined for much greater things with the help of a supportive and loving family. I mourn that loss every day.

It sounds like your needs were complex. That is not your fault, but not their fault either. It also sounds like they tried to get you professional treatment as a way of helping you. I’m sorry that it did not help and made you feel worse. Parents are not doctors, magicians, or therapists. They do not come trained to deal with complicated emotional issues. Perhaps there is more that your parents did to traumatize you that you haven’t shared. From what you have shared, it’s unclear how they failed you so dramatically. If there is something obvious that they missed, we would all benefit from hearing it, so that we can do better.

Um, they institutionalized her and had her medicated for a psychiatric disorder she doesn't have. That's pretty awful.

[Anonymous]

NP here and ok the problem is multifaceted, so I'm just going to address two things here.

1) The sugar-addiction thing is real. What people eat matters, (not just for weight gain/loss and health, but also for mental health and moods)

The gut communicates with the brain. The gut is like a garden with different types of bacteria that digest different kinds of things. So if you are feeding it sugar (and carbs from grains), those bacteria multiply, and when they get hungry, they signal the brain. Another example--if you stop eating dairy, those bacteria die off and that's why it's hard to go back on dairy after being off it.

But the bacteria affect moods, too. There is an NIH study--google it--that links eating fermented foods to decrease in social anxiety. (So you eat a little every day, to build up that bacteria in your gut)

So getting off sugar is like getting off a drug. PART of what is going on is you've got a kid who keeps jonesing for sugar; she's going in/out of withdrawal. Many people have this with coffee--they need their morning coffee, not to actually wake up, but to get rid of the beginnings of caffeine withdrawal symptoms--they just *think* that feeling like crap in the morning is normal but they've got it backwards. Not having their coffee fix makes them feel like sh*t, not waking up in the morning. So their coffee alleviates it but keeps them on the caffeine cycle. (I've been addicted to sugar and to caffeine, and man, it's shocking when you're off it to compare it to the 'before' state. It's only then when you realize the difference.)

You have a situation like a big tangled mess, and you need to try and tease apart the threads. The sugar/carbs is one thread.

Going off sugar/carbs will give your kid "carboflu" for about a week. It's the withdrawl part. Pick a week where you are ready to handle it, and go do it. She's 11, so maybe when she's in a quiet moment (maybe after a sugar fix), you can tell her we're going to try this.

here is a very well-respected website and you can find how to get off sugar there: marksdailyapple.com. Mark Sisson, the founder, has a science background but makes research easy for the lay person to understand.

2) Every parent should learn the concept of the "extinction burst." It is this: The rat presses a lever and gets cheese every time. The rat learns this, and only presses the lever when it's hungry.

Then the experimenter changes the rules. The rat presses the lever and gets no cheese. WTF? No cheese? The rat presses the lever again. No cheese. Again. No cheese.

Suddenly, the rat goes NUTS---starts pressing the lever 1000 times, trying to get the cheese. No cheese. Just as suddenly, the rat gives up and does not press the lever again.

The 1000 times part is the "extinction burst" which is the burst of behavior before it quits (the extinction of behavior). The burst is the brain re-learning that the rules have changed, and learning the new rule. Here, the new rule is: Pressing Lever Is Waste of My Time and Gets Me Nothing.

So in changing any bad behavior, you HAVE to be prepared to ride out the extinction burst. If you give in, then you've created "intermittent reinforcement" which is the worst...gambling behavior.

Even though your DD is only 11, here is a book does a great job in explaining the adolescent brain and most importantly, how YOU the parent should behave so as to get the results you want in your kid "Yes, Your Teen is Crazy!" My very difficult DD peaked at difficulty at 13, and the peak came when I got this book and changed MY behavior. I could have used this book when she was 11. OP, you are unwittingly giving your kid dopamine hits by your behavior and once you understand this, you will find it's easy to stop doing that, and *after* a massive extinction burst that you will ride out, her behavior will improve.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Have you tried just loving her as she is?

Kids can sense when they are unloved and when there is nothing they can do to live up to their parents expectations.

I think I threw up a little in my mouth. You, and many other posters, have no idea what OP is experiencing. Love is not enough.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'll adopt your kid. I'm serious. I can help her have a wonderful life.

Go away. There are lots of older kids awaiting adoption or even foster homes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hi OP. I hope this will help. My parents sent me away to Shepard Pratt when I was about your daughter's age. I think I stayed around 90 days. I was not SN and I have a high IQ. My diagnosis was depression. I was treated with Prozac.

It was awful and my relationship with my parents never recovered. Even to this day I believe my diagnosis was off. I'll cop to OCD and an anxiety disorder, for sure. But not depression. It was basically like prison and I hated every moment of it. I felt shame, embarrassment and completely unloved.

The reason my parents sent me sound similar to yours. I was experiencing huge hormone shifts in addition to my OCD and anxiety and frankly, I had parents that had no clue how to help me deal with it. They were extremely rigid in their expectations and unwilling to find a way to work with me.

I look back on my life in amazement that I didn't end up worse off. Everything I've accomplished has been in spite of my traumatic upbringing and I know I could've been destined for much greater things with the help of a supportive and loving family. I mourn that loss every day.

It sounds like your needs were complex. That is not your fault, but not their fault either. It also sounds like they tried to get you professional treatment as a way of helping you. I’m sorry that it did not help and made you feel worse. Parents are not doctors, magicians, or therapists. They do not come trained to deal with complicated emotional issues. Perhaps there is more that your parents did to traumatize you that you haven’t shared. From what you have shared, it’s unclear how they failed you so dramatically. If there is something obvious that they missed, we would all benefit from hearing it, so that we can do better.

Um, they institutionalized her and had her medicated for a psychiatric disorder she doesn't have. That's pretty awful.

My understanding was that at the time she was diagnosed with depression and was acting out. I assumed that a doctor suggested that place, which ended up being totally inappropriate. If the parents just dropped her off there Willy nilly than I totally agree with you.

[Anonymous]

An 11 yo girl melting down very likely involves puberty hormones.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'll adopt your kid. I'm serious. I can help her have a wonderful life.

Go away. There are lots of older kids awaiting adoption or even foster homes.

I forget when I read posts here that I'm engaging with mental midgets. Moving on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hi OP. I hope this will help. My parents sent me away to Shepard Pratt when I was about your daughter's age. I think I stayed around 90 days. I was not SN and I have a high IQ. My diagnosis was depression. I was treated with Prozac.

It was awful and my relationship with my parents never recovered. Even to this day I believe my diagnosis was off. I'll cop to OCD and an anxiety disorder, for sure. But not depression. It was basically like prison and I hated every moment of it. I felt shame, embarrassment and completely unloved.

The reason my parents sent me sound similar to yours. I was experiencing huge hormone shifts in addition to my OCD and anxiety and frankly, I had parents that had no clue how to help me deal with it. They were extremely rigid in their expectations and unwilling to find a way to work with me.

I look back on my life in amazement that I didn't end up worse off. Everything I've accomplished has been in spite of my traumatic upbringing and I know I could've been destined for much greater things with the help of a supportive and loving family. I mourn that loss every day.

It sounds like your needs were complex. That is not your fault, but not their fault either. It also sounds like they tried to get you professional treatment as a way of helping you. I’m sorry that it did not help and made you feel worse. Parents are not doctors, magicians, or therapists. They do not come trained to deal with complicated emotional issues. Perhaps there is more that your parents did to traumatize you that you haven’t shared. From what you have shared, it’s unclear how they failed you so dramatically. If there is something obvious that they missed, we would all benefit from hearing it, so that we can do better.

Um, they institutionalized her and had her medicated for a psychiatric disorder she doesn't have. That's pretty awful.

My understanding was that at the time she was diagnosed with depression and was acting out. I assumed that a doctor suggested that place, which ended up being totally inappropriate. If the parents just dropped her off there Willy nilly than I totally agree with you.

Doctors suggest a lot of things, that doesn't excuse it. A 3-month in patient stay is incredibly drastic. That's not just an "oops, I made a parenting mistake" level thing. It's major.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:NP here and ok the problem is multifaceted, so I'm just going to address two things here.

1) The sugar-addiction thing is real. What people eat matters, (not just for weight gain/loss and health, but also for mental health and moods)

The gut communicates with the brain. The gut is like a garden with different types of bacteria that digest different kinds of things. So if you are feeding it sugar (and carbs from grains), those bacteria multiply, and when they get hungry, they signal the brain. Another example--if you stop eating dairy, those bacteria die off and that's why it's hard to go back on dairy after being off it.

But the bacteria affect moods, too. There is an NIH study--google it--that links eating fermented foods to decrease in social anxiety. (So you eat a little every day, to build up that bacteria in your gut)

So getting off sugar is like getting off a drug. PART of what is going on is you've got a kid who keeps jonesing for sugar; she's going in/out of withdrawal. Many people have this with coffee--they need their morning coffee, not to actually wake up, but to get rid of the beginnings of caffeine withdrawal symptoms--they just *think* that feeling like crap in the morning is normal but they've got it backwards. Not having their coffee fix makes them feel like sh*t, not waking up in the morning. So their coffee alleviates it but keeps them on the caffeine cycle. (I've been addicted to sugar and to caffeine, and man, it's shocking when you're off it to compare it to the 'before' state. It's only then when you realize the difference.)

You have a situation like a big tangled mess, and you need to try and tease apart the threads. The sugar/carbs is one thread.

Going off sugar/carbs will give your kid "carboflu" for about a week. It's the withdrawl part. Pick a week where you are ready to handle it, and go do it. She's 11, so maybe when she's in a quiet moment (maybe after a sugar fix), you can tell her we're going to try this.

here is a very well-respected website and you can find how to get off sugar there: marksdailyapple.com. Mark Sisson, the founder, has a science background but makes research easy for the lay person to understand.

2) Every parent should learn the concept of the "extinction burst." It is this: The rat presses a lever and gets cheese every time. The rat learns this, and only presses the lever when it's hungry.

Then the experimenter changes the rules. The rat presses the lever and gets no cheese. WTF? No cheese? The rat presses the lever again. No cheese. Again. No cheese.

Suddenly, the rat goes NUTS---starts pressing the lever 1000 times, trying to get the cheese. No cheese. Just as suddenly, the rat gives up and does not press the lever again.

The 1000 times part is the "extinction burst" which is the burst of behavior before it quits (the extinction of behavior). The burst is the brain re-learning that the rules have changed, and learning the new rule. Here, the new rule is: Pressing Lever Is Waste of My Time and Gets Me Nothing.

So in changing any bad behavior, you HAVE to be prepared to ride out the extinction burst. If you give in, then you've created "intermittent reinforcement" which is the worst...gambling behavior.

Even though your DD is only 11, here is a book does a great job in explaining the adolescent brain and most importantly, how YOU the parent should behave so as to get the results you want in your kid "Yes, Your Teen is Crazy!" My very difficult DD peaked at difficulty at 13, and the peak came when I got this book and changed MY behavior. I could have used this book when she was 11. OP, you are unwittingly giving your kid dopamine hits by your behavior and once you understand this, you will find it's easy to stop doing that, and *after* a massive extinction burst that you will ride out, her behavior will improve.

This is incredibly useful and practical advice. Thanks for posting this. Not OP.

[Anonymous]

I don't see the OP stating that she does not love her child. She is exhausted and at the end of her rope, and worried for the sibling who has no choice but to grow up in such an unhealthy environment. I don't have any advice, but do wish you and your family the best of luck in whatever you do to move forward.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP here and ok the problem is multifaceted, so I'm just going to address two things here.

1) The sugar-addiction thing is real. What people eat matters, (not just for weight gain/loss and health, but also for mental health and moods)

The gut communicates with the brain. The gut is like a garden with different types of bacteria that digest different kinds of things. So if you are feeding it sugar (and carbs from grains), those bacteria multiply, and when they get hungry, they signal the brain. Another example--if you stop eating dairy, those bacteria die off and that's why it's hard to go back on dairy after being off it.

But the bacteria affect moods, too. There is an NIH study--google it--that links eating fermented foods to decrease in social anxiety. (So you eat a little every day, to build up that bacteria in your gut)

So getting off sugar is like getting off a drug. PART of what is going on is you've got a kid who keeps jonesing for sugar; she's going in/out of withdrawal. Many people have this with coffee--they need their morning coffee, not to actually wake up, but to get rid of the beginnings of caffeine withdrawal symptoms--they just *think* that feeling like crap in the morning is normal but they've got it backwards. Not having their coffee fix makes them feel like sh*t, not waking up in the morning. So their coffee alleviates it but keeps them on the caffeine cycle. (I've been addicted to sugar and to caffeine, and man, it's shocking when you're off it to compare it to the 'before' state. It's only then when you realize the difference.)

You have a situation like a big tangled mess, and you need to try and tease apart the threads. The sugar/carbs is one thread.

Going off sugar/carbs will give your kid "carboflu" for about a week. It's the withdrawl part. Pick a week where you are ready to handle it, and go do it. She's 11, so maybe when she's in a quiet moment (maybe after a sugar fix), you can tell her we're going to try this.

here is a very well-respected website and you can find how to get off sugar there: marksdailyapple.com. Mark Sisson, the founder, has a science background but makes research easy for the lay person to understand.

2) Every parent should learn the concept of the "extinction burst." It is this: The rat presses a lever and gets cheese every time. The rat learns this, and only presses the lever when it's hungry.

Then the experimenter changes the rules. The rat presses the lever and gets no cheese. WTF? No cheese? The rat presses the lever again. No cheese. Again. No cheese.

Suddenly, the rat goes NUTS---starts pressing the lever 1000 times, trying to get the cheese. No cheese. Just as suddenly, the rat gives up and does not press the lever again.

The 1000 times part is the "extinction burst" which is the burst of behavior before it quits (the extinction of behavior). The burst is the brain re-learning that the rules have changed, and learning the new rule. Here, the new rule is: Pressing Lever Is Waste of My Time and Gets Me Nothing.

So in changing any bad behavior, you HAVE to be prepared to ride out the extinction burst. If you give in, then you've created "intermittent reinforcement" which is the worst...gambling behavior.

Even though your DD is only 11, here is a book does a great job in explaining the adolescent brain and most importantly, how YOU the parent should behave so as to get the results you want in your kid "Yes, Your Teen is Crazy!" My very difficult DD peaked at difficulty at 13, and the peak came when I got this book and changed MY behavior. I could have used this book when she was 11. OP, you are unwittingly giving your kid dopamine hits by your behavior and once you understand this, you will find it's easy to stop doing that, and *after* a massive extinction burst that you will ride out, her behavior will improve.

This is incredibly useful and practical advice. Thanks for posting this. Not OP.

seriously? the whole first part is complete bullshit about sugar and "the gut."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:NP here and ok the problem is multifaceted, so I'm just going to address two things here.

1) The sugar-addiction thing is real. What people eat matters, (not just for weight gain/loss and health, but also for mental health and moods)

The gut communicates with the brain. The gut is like a garden with different types of bacteria that digest different kinds of things. So if you are feeding it sugar (and carbs from grains), those bacteria multiply, and when they get hungry, they signal the brain. Another example--if you stop eating dairy, those bacteria die off and that's why it's hard to go back on dairy after being off it.

But the bacteria affect moods, too. There is an NIH study--google it--that links eating fermented foods to decrease in social anxiety. (So you eat a little every day, to build up that bacteria in your gut)

So getting off sugar is like getting off a drug. PART of what is going on is you've got a kid who keeps jonesing for sugar; she's going in/out of withdrawal. Many people have this with coffee--they need their morning coffee, not to actually wake up, but to get rid of the beginnings of caffeine withdrawal symptoms--they just *think* that feeling like crap in the morning is normal but they've got it backwards. Not having their coffee fix makes them feel like sh*t, not waking up in the morning. So their coffee alleviates it but keeps them on the caffeine cycle. (I've been addicted to sugar and to caffeine, and man, it's shocking when you're off it to compare it to the 'before' state. It's only then when you realize the difference.)

You have a situation like a big tangled mess, and you need to try and tease apart the threads. The sugar/carbs is one thread.

Going off sugar/carbs will give your kid "carboflu" for about a week. It's the withdrawl part. Pick a week where you are ready to handle it, and go do it. She's 11, so maybe when she's in a quiet moment (maybe after a sugar fix), you can tell her we're going to try this.

here is a very well-respected website and you can find how to get off sugar there: marksdailyapple.com. Mark Sisson, the founder, has a science background but makes research easy for the lay person to understand.

2) Every parent should learn the concept of the "extinction burst." It is this: The rat presses a lever and gets cheese every time. The rat learns this, and only presses the lever when it's hungry.

Then the experimenter changes the rules. The rat presses the lever and gets no cheese. WTF? No cheese? The rat presses the lever again. No cheese. Again. No cheese.

Suddenly, the rat goes NUTS---starts pressing the lever 1000 times, trying to get the cheese. No cheese. Just as suddenly, the rat gives up and does not press the lever again.

The 1000 times part is the "extinction burst" which is the burst of behavior before it quits (the extinction of behavior). The burst is the brain re-learning that the rules have changed, and learning the new rule. Here, the new rule is: Pressing Lever Is Waste of My Time and Gets Me Nothing.

So in changing any bad behavior, you HAVE to be prepared to ride out the extinction burst. If you give in, then you've created "intermittent reinforcement" which is the worst...gambling behavior.

Even though your DD is only 11, here is a book does a great job in explaining the adolescent brain and most importantly, how YOU the parent should behave so as to get the results you want in your kid "Yes, Your Teen is Crazy!" My very difficult DD peaked at difficulty at 13, and the peak came when I got this book and changed MY behavior. I could have used this book when she was 11. OP, you are unwittingly giving your kid dopamine hits by your behavior and once you understand this, you will find it's easy to stop doing that, and *after* a massive extinction burst that you will ride out, her behavior will improve.

No doubt a good diet can help mood, but it sounds like OP's problems are more complex than that. My kid throws tantrums, and will eat sugar by the spoonful if I let her, but she takes responsibility for her own behavior. An 11-year old banging her head against the ceiling and blaming her parents for finding this unacceptable is in a whole different league. This requires some sort of intensive therapy of a type that OP has not yet found.