Christmas Trees

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The whole premises of this is that many Jews on this thread apparently feel the Jewish children have superior rights to the Christian child.

Sorry, that's a total straw man. Not one poster here has advocated totally banning Christmas or not allowing her the celebrate. People have just expressed their levels of comfort with various aspects of Chrustmas celebration. There's a lot of room between 8 foot tree and banning the holiday.

If a Christian mother denied a menorah to a Jewish child I would say the same thing. I don't believe in second class family members. How could this send any other message than that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The whole premises of this is that many Jews on this thread apparently feel the Jewish children have superior rights to the Christian child.

Sorry, that's a total straw man. Not one poster here has advocated totally banning Christmas or not allowing her the celebrate. People have just expressed their levels of comfort with various aspects of Chrustmas celebration. There's a lot of room between 8 foot tree and banning the holiday.

If a Christian mother denied a menorah to a Jewish child I would say the same thing. I don't believe in second class family members. How could this send any other message than that?

If this woman wanted a purely Jewish home she should not have married a Christian with a Christian daughter. She did- nothing wrong with it. The girl has equal rights in the home like any other child. End of story.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The whole premises of this is that many Jews on this thread apparently feel the Jewish children have superior rights to the Christian child.

Sorry, that's a total straw man. Not one poster here has advocated totally banning Christmas or not allowing her the celebrate. People have just expressed their levels of comfort with various aspects of Chrustmas celebration. There's a lot of room between 8 foot tree and banning the holiday.

Except for this gem from a PP: "The whole family is not both Jewish and Christian. She did not compromise her family's religious identity. She is Jewish - she is not both. Her children are Jewish by bloodlines. Its not appropriate to have a Christmas tree in a Jewish home if they are raising the children Jewish."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is such a nasty thread and I am amazed that nobody wants to call out the op.

It is your stepdaughters home for the time being as well. She knowingly married a man with a Christian daughter. Let her have a damn tree - it's not going to hurt you.

As a Christian I would never want someone under my roof to feel unloved including the celebration of their religious holidays.

I think sour op wants to pretend she doesn't have stepchildren, or worse, is afraid folks will gossip at her temple about her Christmas tree.

I feel sorry for that stepdaughter who clearly has no home. I guess she's just a shiksa though.

You just don't get it. As a Jew, I'm very worried about my children assimilating into the dominant Christian culture. You act like we can just have a tree in the house and that's fine. It isn't. For Christians, you can dabble in other people's traditions and that's fine, because you're the vast majority. Jews aren't. We have to constantly guard against assimilation. That means, among other things, keeping a Jewish home. A house with a Christmas tree isn't a Jewish home. OP cannot accommodate both the stepdaughter and her own desire to have a Jewish home. PERIOD. They're mutually exclusive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The whole premises of this is that many Jews on this thread apparently feel the Jewish children have superior rights to the Christian child.

Sorry, that's a total straw man. Not one poster here has advocated totally banning Christmas or not allowing her the celebrate. People have just expressed their levels of comfort with various aspects of Chrustmas celebration. There's a lot of room between 8 foot tree and banning the holiday.

Except for this gem from a PP: "The whole family is not both Jewish and Christian. She did not compromise her family's religious identity. She is Jewish - she is not both. Her children are Jewish by bloodlines. Its not appropriate to have a Christmas tree in a Jewish home if they are raising the children Jewish."

Right. They don't think a tree is appropriate. That's not banning the celebration. If a Jewish stepchild were moving into a Christian household, it likely would not be seen as reasonable to ban pork from the entire household. That doesn't mean Judaism is totally banned.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is such a nasty thread and I am amazed that nobody wants to call out the op.

It is your stepdaughters home for the time being as well. She knowingly married a man with a Christian daughter. Let her have a damn tree - it's not going to hurt you.

As a Christian I would never want someone under my roof to feel unloved including the celebration of their religious holidays.

I think sour op wants to pretend she doesn't have stepchildren, or worse, is afraid folks will gossip at her temple about her Christmas tree.

I feel sorry for that stepdaughter who clearly has no home. I guess she's just a shiksa though.

You just don't get it. As a Jew, I'm very worried about my children assimilating into the dominant Christian culture. You act like we can just have a tree in the house and that's fine. It isn't. For Christians, you can dabble in other people's traditions and that's fine, because you're the vast majority. Jews aren't. We have to constantly guard against assimilation. That means, among other things, keeping a Jewish home. A house with a Christmas tree isn't a Jewish home. OP cannot accommodate both the stepdaughter and her own desire to have a Jewish home. PERIOD. They're mutually exclusive.

While I agree with you, my heart breaks for the non Jewish stepdaughter who can't celebrate how she traditionally does. I spent Christmas by myself once and it was the most depressing day I can remember. It's normally a family day, but instead she'll be with a stepmother who says she can't celebrate because she isn't religious enough.

I think the stepdaughter needs to spend Christmas elsewhere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is such a nasty thread and I am amazed that nobody wants to call out the op.

It is your stepdaughters home for the time being as well. She knowingly married a man with a Christian daughter. Let her have a damn tree - it's not going to hurt you.

As a Christian I would never want someone under my roof to feel unloved including the celebration of their religious holidays.

I think sour op wants to pretend she doesn't have stepchildren, or worse, is afraid folks will gossip at her temple about her Christmas tree.

I feel sorry for that stepdaughter who clearly has no home. I guess she's just a shiksa though.

You just don't get it. As a Jew, I'm very worried about my children assimilating into the dominant Christian culture. You act like we can just have a tree in the house and that's fine. It isn't. For Christians, you can dabble in other people's traditions and that's fine, because you're the vast majority. Jews aren't. We have to constantly guard against assimilation. That means, among other things, keeping a Jewish home. A house with a Christmas tree isn't a Jewish home. OP cannot accommodate both the stepdaughter and her own desire to have a Jewish home. PERIOD. They're mutually exclusive.

Well I appreciate your candor but this is a mixed home in which the younger children are being raised Jewish. If preventing and avoiding assimilation were the only drivers in life op would not have married a Christian man.

The Christian girl has rights too- she is not a second class chils

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is such a nasty thread and I am amazed that nobody wants to call out the op.

It is your stepdaughters home for the time being as well. She knowingly married a man with a Christian daughter. Let her have a damn tree - it's not going to hurt you.

As a Christian I would never want someone under my roof to feel unloved including the celebration of their religious holidays.

I think sour op wants to pretend she doesn't have stepchildren, or worse, is afraid folks will gossip at her temple about her Christmas tree.

I feel sorry for that stepdaughter who clearly has no home. I guess she's just a shiksa though.

You just don't get it. As a Jew, I'm very worried about my children assimilating into the dominant Christian culture. You act like we can just have a tree in the house and that's fine. It isn't. For Christians, you can dabble in other people's traditions and that's fine, because you're the vast majority. Jews aren't. We have to constantly guard against assimilation. That means, among other things, keeping a Jewish home. A house with a Christmas tree isn't a Jewish home. OP cannot accommodate both the stepdaughter and her own desire to have a Jewish home. PERIOD. They're mutually exclusive.

Well I appreciate your candor but this is a mixed home in which the younger children are being raised Jewish. If preventing and avoiding assimilation were the only drivers in life op would not have married a Christian man.

The Christian girl has rights too- she is not a second class chils

The problem is that only one person can have their way here. Why should SD get a veto over OP and her kids?

[Anonymous]

Hopefully the OP is long gone by now - because this thread has gone off the deep end.
I also hope that some of the sentiment expressed by the Jewish posters on this thread do not represent all Jews. I seriously cannot imagine how it would come across if a Christian person refused to allow a non-Christian religious symbol in his or her home (such as a menorah or a mezuzza - sorry if spelled incorrect). And to say that
it is somehow a different matter for a Jew to outlaw a Christian symbol (in this case a Christmas tree which by the way is not "the" symbol of Christianity) is BULLSHIT. This entire dialogue is so distasteful in so many ways.
You know what? A little assimilation into our modern multi-cultural society might not be such a terrible thing. Ever hear of "love thy neighbor"?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is such a nasty thread and I am amazed that nobody wants to call out the op.

It is your stepdaughters home for the time being as well. She knowingly married a man with a Christian daughter. Let her have a damn tree - it's not going to hurt you.

As a Christian I would never want someone under my roof to feel unloved including the celebration of their religious holidays.

I think sour op wants to pretend she doesn't have stepchildren, or worse, is afraid folks will gossip at her temple about her Christmas tree.

I feel sorry for that stepdaughter who clearly has no home. I guess she's just a shiksa though.

You just don't get it. As a Jew, I'm very worried about my children assimilating into the dominant Christian culture. You act like we can just have a tree in the house and that's fine. It isn't. For Christians, you can dabble in other people's traditions and that's fine, because you're the vast majority. Jews aren't. We have to constantly guard against assimilation. That means, among other things, keeping a Jewish home. A house with a Christmas tree isn't a Jewish home. OP cannot accommodate both the stepdaughter and her own desire to have a Jewish home. PERIOD. They're mutually exclusive.

Well I appreciate your candor but this is a mixed home in which the younger children are being raised Jewish. If preventing and avoiding assimilation were the only drivers in life op would not have married a Christian man.

The Christian girl has rights too- she is not a second class chils

The problem is that only one person can have their way here. Why should SD get a veto over OP and her kids?

Because OP is an adult and has a responsibility to make her SD feel welcome in her home, and because I doubt the kids have strong feelings on the subject. A small Christmas tree (remember that the only folks talking about 8 foot trees are the Jewish purists) is not instead of a menorah. It's in addition to.

I said this above, but I'll say it again - OP has the opportunity to model the kind of welcoming attitude and religious tolerance that she would want for her kids when they go out into the world.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is such a nasty thread and I am amazed that nobody wants to call out the op.

It is your stepdaughters home for the time being as well. She knowingly married a man with a Christian daughter. Let her have a damn tree - it's not going to hurt you.

As a Christian I would never want someone under my roof to feel unloved including the celebration of their religious holidays.

I think sour op wants to pretend she doesn't have stepchildren, or worse, is afraid folks will gossip at her temple about her Christmas tree.

I feel sorry for that stepdaughter who clearly has no home. I guess she's just a shiksa though.

You just don't get it. As a Jew, I'm very worried about my children assimilating into the dominant Christian culture. You act like we can just have a tree in the house and that's fine. It isn't. For Christians, you can dabble in other people's traditions and that's fine, because you're the vast majority. Jews aren't. We have to constantly guard against assimilation. That means, among other things, keeping a Jewish home. A house with a Christmas tree isn't a Jewish home. OP cannot accommodate both the stepdaughter and her own desire to have a Jewish home. PERIOD. They're mutually exclusive.

Well I appreciate your candor but this is a mixed home in which the younger children are being raised Jewish. If preventing and avoiding assimilation were the only drivers in life op would not have married a Christian man.

The Christian girl has rights too- she is not a second class chils

The problem is that only one person can have their way here. Why should SD get a veto over OP and her kids?

Because OP is an adult and has a responsibility to make her SD feel welcome in her home, and because I doubt the kids have strong feelings on the subject. A small Christmas tree (remember that the only folks talking about 8 foot trees are the Jewish purists) is not instead of a menorah. It's in addition to.

I said this above, but I'll say it again - OP has the opportunity to model the kind of welcoming attitude and religious tolerance that she would want for her kids when they go out into the world.

We're just talking past each other. You don't understand the importance of a Jewish home. You think that OP can just welcome competing religious symbols into her home and it'll be fine. That's the attitude of a very privileged person who doesn't have to worry about the decimation of her culture through assimilation. You truly and utterly don't get it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hopefully the OP is long gone by now - because this thread has gone off the deep end.
I also hope that some of the sentiment expressed by the Jewish posters on this thread do not represent all Jews. I seriously cannot imagine how it would come across if a Christian person refused to allow a non-Christian religious symbol in his or her home (such as a menorah or a mezuzza - sorry if spelled incorrect). And to say that
it is somehow a different matter for a Jew to outlaw a Christian symbol (in this case a Christmas tree which by the way is not "the" symbol of Christianity) is BULLSHIT. This entire dialogue is so distasteful in so many ways.
You know what? A little assimilation into our modern multi-cultural society might not be such a terrible thing. Ever hear of "love thy neighbor"?

Actually, it would be very reasonable for parents in a Christian household not to be comfortable with a mezuzah. A mezuzah is nailed to the doorposts to represent the household as Jewish. As a Jew, I would not think less of any Christian mom who said that was an accomodation that she was uncomfortable with. And again, sorry, I've heard no Jewish viewpoint in this thread more radical than a large tree is not appropriate in a Jewish household. (And many Jewish viewpoints have been more moderate than that one).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hopefully the OP is long gone by now - because this thread has gone off the deep end.
I also hope that some of the sentiment expressed by the Jewish posters on this thread do not represent all Jews. I seriously cannot imagine how it would come across if a Christian person refused to allow a non-Christian religious symbol in his or her home (such as a menorah or a mezuzza - sorry if spelled incorrect). And to say that
it is somehow a different matter for a Jew to outlaw a Christian symbol (in this case a Christmas tree which by the way is not "the" symbol of Christianity) is BULLSHIT. This entire dialogue is so distasteful in so many ways.
You know what? A little assimilation into our modern multi-cultural society might not be such a terrible thing. Ever hear of "love thy neighbor"?

Actually, it would be very reasonable for parents in a Christian household not to be comfortable with a mezuzah. A mezuzah is nailed to the doorposts to represent the household as Jewish. As a Jew, I would not think less of any Christian mom who said that was an accomodation that she was uncomfortable with. And again, sorry, I've heard no Jewish viewpoint in this thread more radical than a large tree is not appropriate in a Jewish household. (And many Jewish viewpoints have been more moderate than that one).

We're Christian and have a mezuzah on our door from the previous owner. I like that it also is a symbol of God's watching over the house. I also think it's bad luck to take it down.

FWIW.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is such a nasty thread and I am amazed that nobody wants to call out the op.

It is your stepdaughters home for the time being as well. She knowingly married a man with a Christian daughter. Let her have a damn tree - it's not going to hurt you.

As a Christian I would never want someone under my roof to feel unloved including the celebration of their religious holidays.

I think sour op wants to pretend she doesn't have stepchildren, or worse, is afraid folks will gossip at her temple about her Christmas tree.

I feel sorry for that stepdaughter who clearly has no home. I guess she's just a shiksa though.

You just don't get it. As a Jew, I'm very worried about my children assimilating into the dominant Christian culture. You act like we can just have a tree in the house and that's fine. It isn't. For Christians, you can dabble in other people's traditions and that's fine, because you're the vast majority. Jews aren't. We have to constantly guard against assimilation. That means, among other things, keeping a Jewish home. A house with a Christmas tree isn't a Jewish home. OP cannot accommodate both the stepdaughter and her own desire to have a Jewish home. PERIOD. They're mutually exclusive.

While I agree with you, my heart breaks for the non Jewish stepdaughter who can't celebrate how she traditionally does. I spent Christmas by myself once and it was the most depressing day I can remember. It's normally a family day, but instead she'll be with a stepmother who says she can't celebrate because she isn't religious enough.

I think the stepdaughter needs to spend Christmas elsewhere.

I'm a differnent poster but still a Jew who would be uncomfortable with a tree in my household. Is a tree really going to fix this problem, though? I would think, the traditional Christmas is a family day, with the kids waking up at 6am for presents, family gathered all day, special meals, etc (all that stuff I see in the movies!) Instead stepdaughter is going to wake up to kids that are sleeping in because the day is off from school. Mom maybe getting some extra housework in because nothing is open anywhere to do errands. Maybe even going to work. (As a Jew, I always work Christmas as that allows other to take off - I'm in the medical field)

Even if there is a tree. Any even if there's some sort of presents or special dinner, how can it be at all the same as celebrating with a Christian family? It just seems like the reality is either stepdaughter celebrates at her mom's house, or, at baseline there is going to be some level of compromise. Is the tree even going to seem like largest issue?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is such a nasty thread and I am amazed that nobody wants to call out the op.

It is your stepdaughters home for the time being as well. She knowingly married a man with a Christian daughter. Let her have a damn tree - it's not going to hurt you.

As a Christian I would never want someone under my roof to feel unloved including the celebration of their religious holidays.

I think sour op wants to pretend she doesn't have stepchildren, or worse, is afraid folks will gossip at her temple about her Christmas tree.

I feel sorry for that stepdaughter who clearly has no home. I guess she's just a shiksa though.

You just don't get it. As a Jew, I'm very worried about my children assimilating into the dominant Christian culture. You act like we can just have a tree in the house and that's fine. It isn't. For Christians, you can dabble in other people's traditions and that's fine, because you're the vast majority. Jews aren't. We have to constantly guard against assimilation. That means, among other things, keeping a Jewish home. A house with a Christmas tree isn't a Jewish home. OP cannot accommodate both the stepdaughter and her own desire to have a Jewish home. PERIOD. They're mutually exclusive.

Well I appreciate your candor but this is a mixed home in which the younger children are being raised Jewish. If preventing and avoiding assimilation were the only drivers in life op would not have married a Christian man.

The Christian girl has rights too- she is not a second class chils

The problem is that only one person can have their way here. Why should SD get a veto over OP and her kids?

OP had her veto when she decided to get married. She could have vetoed marrying a Christian man with a Christian child so as to not ever have these religious conflicts. Having made the decision to marry a Christian man with a Christian child, she needs to adapt to the realities of that situation (which include the Christian child coming to live with them, not an unforeseeable event when OP got married). OP's step-daughter never got a say in any of this, and so her interests should get a certain amount of priority here.