When the kids go to college, I'm out of this loveless and affectionless marriage

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How often do you take off work to spend the day with her?

How often do you go on dates without the children? How often do you actually plan the date and daycare?

How often do you go on vacation without the children?

How often does she go away with friends without you or the children?

X200000000

Oh, fuck this. It's standard issue advice for husbands of wives who have unilaterally decided that because they are mothers there is no longer any reasonable expectation that they'll be wives as well. And it doesn't work. It's gaslighting to make him think he's at fault for the poor treatment he's receiving and, even more, kiss her ass. Talk about victim blaming.

so you think it is okay for a couple to never go on a date, never take a day off together, never vacation without children, never go away without the family.

You life must SUCK!

Last summer, we had our first three days together without children in 17 years. It was wonderful, but not something we could have done before that. Not everyone has people ready, willing AND able to take care of their children while they go on vacation together. If you do, consider yourself one of the lucky ones.

i find this hard to believe.

Don't let that be your excuse not to get away as a couple. We found someone and pay them. Totally worth it!
Why? Not everyone has people to take care of their children for extended amounts of time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

She isn't lazy. He said she's a wonderful mother. No "wonderful mother" is lazy. None of the other options make the "tell her to lose weight and put out or divorce her" course of action make sense. On the other hand, it seems quite likely since that's his approach that he's a lazy, selfish slob.

Wonderful mothers can absolutely be lazy wives. It's a matter of priorities. I'm a hard worker when it comes to my job but utterly lazy when it comes to, say, cleaning my car. I like and care about the former and am utterly indifferent to the latter.

That's not laziness. That's lack of interest. She's not a lazy person generally. She's not interested in intimacy with him. So, the question is why? From what I've seen of him, I can think of a few reasons. We haven't heard from her (that we know of). If you're committed to your marriage, then you try to figure out why. And that may require some change on your part. But he's not interested in that. He's only interested in telling her to change to suit him, and who cares what's making her uninterested. That's selfish, and the marriage will fail.

No, it's laziness caused by lack of interest. When I work hard on my golf game because it interests me but don't want to rake leaves because it bores me, I'm lazy -- even if my spouse isn't trying to figure out why I'm not interested in raking the leaves. Same thing with a wife who doesn't work on her marriage because it doesn't interest her but puts forth a lot of effort in her mothering because it does interest her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

She isn't lazy. He said she's a wonderful mother. No "wonderful mother" is lazy. None of the other options make the "tell her to lose weight and put out or divorce her" course of action make sense. On the other hand, it seems quite likely since that's his approach that he's a lazy, selfish slob.

Wonderful mothers can absolutely be lazy wives. It's a matter of priorities. I'm a hard worker when it comes to my job but utterly lazy when it comes to, say, cleaning my car. I like and care about the former and am utterly indifferent to the latter.

That's not laziness. That's lack of interest. She's not a lazy person generally. She's not interested in intimacy with him. So, the question is why? From what I've seen of him, I can think of a few reasons. We haven't heard from her (that we know of). If you're committed to your marriage, then you try to figure out why. And that may require some change on your part. But he's not interested in that. He's only interested in telling her to change to suit him, and who cares what's making her uninterested. That's selfish, and the marriage will fail.

No, it's laziness caused by lack of interest. When I work hard on my golf game because it interests me but don't want to rake leaves because it bores me, I'm lazy -- even if my spouse isn't trying to figure out why I'm not interested in raking the leaves. Same thing with a wife who doesn't work on her marriage because it doesn't interest her but puts forth a lot of effort in her mothering because it does interest her.

You're seriously comparing mothering to taking leaves? I can see why you have an issue...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Planning date nights with no expectation of sex?"

That's the only kind of date night I plan. I have no reason to have an expectation of sex because sex never happens.

That's cruel. My husband takes me out, I'm having sex with him.

Most the time, by the time I get the babysitter taken home (maybe a 15-20 minute process), my wife has changed into frumpy clothes and is asleep. So, I've never really seen the value of the date night advice.

This isn't that hard of a problem to solve. Get a sitter who can drive or who lives near enough to walk. have you made any effort to do that? No, I bet she's in charge of that, right, and it never occurred to you.
And here's another one that might work, and I bet you never tried. Say to her when you get home BEFORE you drop off the babysitter that you think she looks really beautiful just as she is and she shouldn't change out of that outfit because you plan to make her a special cocktail when you get back from dropping off the sitter. Tell her in the meantime, do nothing -- no dishes -- except just relax. And kiss her. In other words, treat her like a human being who you actually like, and she might start to act like a person who thinks of herself that way too.

Christ on a crutch. Just more hoops to jump through. I've been a good dad. I've pulled my weight at home. I have been a good provider. I'm in shape. I cleaned up. I've gotten a babysitter. I've taken my wife on a nice date. I'm taking the babysitter home. But this is not enough for her to want to have sex with me. This is not enough to make her excited enough by my presence that she can be bothered to hold out another 20 minutes.

But, all hope is not lost you tell me! Maybe if I just got another babysitter, that would make my wife want to jump me. Maybe if I told her to stay in her clothes so I could get her another drink and kissed her and told her she looks really beautiful again and talked to her some more like a person (because I've done all these things sincerely and happily while on the date) -- *now* it's going to work! This is what will get her all hot & bothered. And, if that doesn't work, I'm sure we can move the goal posts yet some more.

And even if we pile up the requirements high enough, and each one is met, and it's finally enough to get her interested in sex with me -- is that even sustainable in the long term? Let's say I'd like to have sex like once or twice a week. And I want her to *want* to have sex with me. With that level of effort required to get her interested, is it even sustainable week after week, month after month, while still holding down a job, taking care of the house, managing the kids, etc.?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How often do you take off work to spend the day with her?

How often do you go on dates without the children? How often do you actually plan the date and daycare?

How often do you go on vacation without the children?

How often does she go away with friends without you or the children?

X200000000

Oh, fuck this. It's standard issue advice for husbands of wives who have unilaterally decided that because they are mothers there is no longer any reasonable expectation that they'll be wives as well. And it doesn't work. It's gaslighting to make him think he's at fault for the poor treatment he's receiving and, even more, kiss her ass. Talk about victim blaming.

so you think it is okay for a couple to never go on a date, never take a day off together, never vacation without children, never go away without the family.

You life must SUCK!

Last summer, we had our first three days together without children in 17 years. It was wonderful, but not something we could have done before that. Not everyone has people ready, willing AND able to take care of their children while they go on vacation together. If you do, consider yourself one of the lucky ones.

i find this hard to believe.

Don't let that be your excuse not to get away as a couple. We found someone and pay them. Totally worth it!
Why? Not everyone has people to take care of their children for extended amounts of time.

It is nice if you have the extra cash. Lying around. How much do they charge for a child with ASD and another with other issues? I am thinking it isn't cheap.

[Anonymous]

Do it now. Divorce is easier on the kids the younger they are. All of my friends whose parents divorced when they were older have issues. My parents divorced when I was 5 and I am thankful they did it then.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How often do you take off work to spend the day with her?

How often do you go on dates without the children? How often do you actually plan the date and daycare?

How often do you go on vacation without the children?

How often does she go away with friends without you or the children?

X200000000

Oh, fuck this. It's standard issue advice for husbands of wives who have unilaterally decided that because they are mothers there is no longer any reasonable expectation that they'll be wives as well. And it doesn't work. It's gaslighting to make him think he's at fault for the poor treatment he's receiving and, even more, kiss her ass. Talk about victim blaming.

so you think it is okay for a couple to never go on a date, never take a day off together, never vacation without children, never go away without the family.

You life must SUCK!

Last summer, we had our first three days together without children in 17 years. It was wonderful, but not something we could have done before that. Not everyone has people ready, willing AND able to take care of their children while they go on vacation together. If you do, consider yourself one of the lucky ones.

First three days in 17 years without kids? And you see no problem with this? And still think your wife is being unreasonable? Unbelievable.

And you never answered the questions of dates and delegations of household chores...

I am the to PP to whom you responded, but I am NOT the OP. I would have LOVED a couples only vacation before last summer, but we did not have anyone to care for our children for a couples only vacation. If you have this COUNT YOUR BLESSINGS!!!!!!!!!!!

Unless you have 10 children it is called sleep away camp and creating a support group. I don't have family to do this but I can save money, do camp, trade weekends with another couple. Jeez it's not brain surgery.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Planning date nights with no expectation of sex?"

That's the only kind of date night I plan. I have no reason to have an expectation of sex because sex never happens.

That's cruel. My husband takes me out, I'm having sex with him.

Most the time, by the time I get the babysitter taken home (maybe a 15-20 minute process), my wife has changed into frumpy clothes and is asleep. So, I've never really seen the value of the date night advice.

This isn't that hard of a problem to solve. Get a sitter who can drive or who lives near enough to walk. have you made any effort to do that? No, I bet she's in charge of that, right, and it never occurred to you.
And here's another one that might work, and I bet you never tried. Say to her when you get home BEFORE you drop off the babysitter that you think she looks really beautiful just as she is and she shouldn't change out of that outfit because you plan to make her a special cocktail when you get back from dropping off the sitter. Tell her in the meantime, do nothing -- no dishes -- except just relax. And kiss her. In other words, treat her like a human being who you actually like, and she might start to act like a person who thinks of herself that way too.

Christ on a crutch. Just more hoops to jump through. I've been a good dad. I've pulled my weight at home. I have been a good provider. I'm in shape. I cleaned up. I've gotten a babysitter. I've taken my wife on a nice date. I'm taking the babysitter home. But this is not enough for her to want to have sex with me. This is not enough to make her excited enough by my presence that she can be bothered to hold out another 20 minutes.

But, all hope is not lost you tell me! Maybe if I just got another babysitter, that would make my wife want to jump me. Maybe if I told her to stay in her clothes so I could get her another drink and kissed her and told her she looks really beautiful again and talked to her some more like a person (because I've done all these things sincerely and happily while on the date) -- *now* it's going to work! This is what will get her all hot & bothered. And, if that doesn't work, I'm sure we can move the goal posts yet some more.

And even if we pile up the requirements high enough, and each one is met, and it's finally enough to get her interested in sex with me -- is that even sustainable in the long term? Let's say I'd like to have sex like once or twice a week. And I want her to *want* to have sex with me. With that level of effort required to get her interested, is it even sustainable week after week, month after month, while still holding down a job, taking care of the house, managing the kids, etc.?

Interesting... I am a wife. I am a good provider, I am in shape, I clean up, get the baby sitter (more often than not), ..... These are piled up requirements? You think these are huge goal posts?

This to you is not sustainable? Is it really that hard? I do all that and more week after week, month after month, year after year... These things are "extras" in your world.

I think you should get a real opinion on this from an individual counselor.

[Anonymous]

If your wife is a SAHM I think you owe it to her to tell her you plan to divorce when the kids go to college so she can make a plan to support herself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Planning date nights with no expectation of sex?"

That's the only kind of date night I plan. I have no reason to have an expectation of sex because sex never happens.

That's cruel. My husband takes me out, I'm having sex with him.

Most the time, by the time I get the babysitter taken home (maybe a 15-20 minute process), my wife has changed into frumpy clothes and is asleep. So, I've never really seen the value of the date night advice.

This isn't that hard of a problem to solve. Get a sitter who can drive or who lives near enough to walk. have you made any effort to do that? No, I bet she's in charge of that, right, and it never occurred to you.
And here's another one that might work, and I bet you never tried. Say to her when you get home BEFORE you drop off the babysitter that you think she looks really beautiful just as she is and she shouldn't change out of that outfit because you plan to make her a special cocktail when you get back from dropping off the sitter. Tell her in the meantime, do nothing -- no dishes -- except just relax. And kiss her. In other words, treat her like a human being who you actually like, and she might start to act like a person who thinks of herself that way too.

Christ on a crutch. Just more hoops to jump through. I've been a good dad. I've pulled my weight at home. I have been a good provider. I'm in shape. I cleaned up. I've gotten a babysitter. I've taken my wife on a nice date. I'm taking the babysitter home. But this is not enough for her to want to have sex with me. This is not enough to make her excited enough by my presence that she can be bothered to hold out another 20 minutes.

But, all hope is not lost you tell me! Maybe if I just got another babysitter, that would make my wife want to jump me. Maybe if I told her to stay in her clothes so I could get her another drink and kissed her and told her she looks really beautiful again and talked to her some more like a person (because I've done all these things sincerely and happily while on the date) -- *now* it's going to work! This is what will get her all hot & bothered. And, if that doesn't work, I'm sure we can move the goal posts yet some more.

And even if we pile up the requirements high enough, and each one is met, and it's finally enough to get her interested in sex with me -- is that even sustainable in the long term? Let's say I'd like to have sex like once or twice a week. And I want her to *want* to have sex with me. With that level of effort required to get her interested, is it even sustainable week after week, month after month, while still holding down a job, taking care of the house, managing the kids, etc.?

Interesting... I am a wife. I am a good provider, I am in shape, I clean up, get the baby sitter (more often than not), ..... These are piled up requirements? You think these are huge goal posts?

This to you is not sustainable? Is it really that hard? I do all that and more week after week, month after month, year after year... These things are "extras" in your world.

I think you should get a real opinion on this from an individual counselor.

THIS THIS THIS THIS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dude. You sound like a DICK. Who plans a divorce 10+ years ahead of time??? If your wife was aware of the plan she would probably speed up the process for you
Is it safe to assume that NOBODY wants to stay married to someone who plans to divorce "when the kids are in college"? And in the meantime there is no sex????? You are crazy. Just get a divorce. There must be hundreds of women dying to spread their legs for your awesomeness. Don't keep them waiting!

I'm sure that OP will have women lined up around the block to be with an emotionally selfish, passive aggressive, and apparently not very good in bed middle-aged loser. Yeah, line starts here, ladies! lmao.

Thanks for the laugh.

[Anonymous]

When a spouse does not want sex and there is only low level conflict in the marriage, there are only three options

1. Suffer. Morally miserable and you feel dead inside and outside.

2. Divorce. Moral but the kids may suffer from single parenting or rotation between parents. If a child has some medical condition this maybe in-feasible. If the marriage is high conflict then it is probably the best choice.

3. Cheat. In-moral, high risk if caught.

Each option is bad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How often do you take off work to spend the day with her?

How often do you go on dates without the children? How often do you actually plan the date and daycare?

How often do you go on vacation without the children?

How often does she go away with friends without you or the children?

X200000000

Oh, fuck this. It's standard issue advice for husbands of wives who have unilaterally decided that because they are mothers there is no longer any reasonable expectation that they'll be wives as well. And it doesn't work. It's gaslighting to make him think he's at fault for the poor treatment he's receiving and, even more, kiss her ass. Talk about victim blaming.

so you think it is okay for a couple to never go on a date, never take a day off together, never vacation without children, never go away without the family.

You life must SUCK!

Last summer, we had our first three days together without children in 17 years. It was wonderful, but not something we could have done before that. Not everyone has people ready, willing AND able to take care of their children while they go on vacation together. If you do, consider yourself one of the lucky ones.

First three days in 17 years without kids? And you see no problem with this? And still think your wife is being unreasonable? Unbelievable.

And you never answered the questions of dates and delegations of household chores...

I am the to PP to whom you responded, but I am NOT the OP. I would have LOVED a couples only vacation before last summer, but we did not have anyone to care for our children for a couples only vacation. If you have this COUNT YOUR BLESSINGS!!!!!!!!!!!

Unless you have 10 children it is called sleep away camp and creating a support group. I don't have family to do this but I can save money, do camp, trade weekends with another couple. Jeez it's not brain surgery.

For several reasons sleep away camp did not work for one of our children. Both our children have special needs that complicate matters. SO, while I am glad it isn't "brain surgery" for you. For others, things are more complicated. Again, count your blessings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Planning date nights with no expectation of sex?"

That's the only kind of date night I plan. I have no reason to have an expectation of sex because sex never happens.

That's cruel. My husband takes me out, I'm having sex with him.

Most the time, by the time I get the babysitter taken home (maybe a 15-20 minute process), my wife has changed into frumpy clothes and is asleep. So, I've never really seen the value of the date night advice.

This isn't that hard of a problem to solve. Get a sitter who can drive or who lives near enough to walk. have you made any effort to do that? No, I bet she's in charge of that, right, and it never occurred to you.
And here's another one that might work, and I bet you never tried. Say to her when you get home BEFORE you drop off the babysitter that you think she looks really beautiful just as she is and she shouldn't change out of that outfit because you plan to make her a special cocktail when you get back from dropping off the sitter. Tell her in the meantime, do nothing -- no dishes -- except just relax. And kiss her. In other words, treat her like a human being who you actually like, and she might start to act like a person who thinks of herself that way too.

Christ on a crutch. Just more hoops to jump through. I've been a good dad. I've pulled my weight at home. I have been a good provider. I'm in shape. I cleaned up. I've gotten a babysitter. I've taken my wife on a nice date. I'm taking the babysitter home. But this is not enough for her to want to have sex with me. This is not enough to make her excited enough by my presence that she can be bothered to hold out another 20 minutes.

But, all hope is not lost you tell me! Maybe if I just got another babysitter, that would make my wife want to jump me. Maybe if I told her to stay in her clothes so I could get her another drink and kissed her and told her she looks really beautiful again and talked to her some more like a person (because I've done all these things sincerely and happily while on the date) -- *now* it's going to work! This is what will get her all hot & bothered. And, if that doesn't work, I'm sure we can move the goal posts yet some more.

And even if we pile up the requirements high enough, and each one is met, and it's finally enough to get her interested in sex with me -- is that even sustainable in the long term? Let's say I'd like to have sex like once or twice a week. And I want her to *want* to have sex with me. With that level of effort required to get her interested, is it even sustainable week after week, month after month, while still holding down a job, taking care of the house, managing the kids, etc.?

You are venting, I get it. You know this is not constructive, though. I feel like you are still reluctant to confront your DW though. I would recommend that, in a calm and pleasant tone, you tell your DW that the current state of sexuality/physical affection is so bad for you that you are contemplating divorce, that you don't want to do that, and that you are willing to consider counseling or whatever might improve the situation. If she is willing to work with you, do your best. If not, pull the trigger now. Life is too short. But you owe it to her and you to be completely explicit about where you are, and let the chips fall where they will. You don't have to live this way, but you do owe her a crystal clear warning and a chance to do the right thing.

[Anonymous]

Op, she is reluctant to have sex because she knows you find her weight gross. She is afraid that hugging, hand holding, whatever will lead to sex. Where she will have to be naked and you will be looking at her and judging her.

She doesn't feel safe with you, safe to let it all hang out, safe that she is going to be accepted and found worthy.

Go on a diet and exercise plan together. Go to therapy together. It's cheaper than a divorce.

If she feels like you accept her body, flaws and all, she'll be a lot more sexual. Also, less stress does help.