Extreme resentment over mental load

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can be free of the resentment whenever you choose to put it down.

I am the superior parent. Without my spouse, the kids would be okay. They have me. Without me, the kids are FOOKED. I win. I take pride in it. I don't sit and stew about how their other parent could never. I pat myself on the back because I can, and I did. If you're better with the mental load, GOOD FOR YOU.

Nobody can take advantage of your mental labor without your consent. You either need to restructure your household or reframe your mentality. The latter is always within your control.

I have a friend currently going through what OP is describing and I find this statement you made really interesting. I'm at a loss as to how to help her because my husband is an equal partner so while I hear what she is telling me, I am struggling with understanding it but mostly I am struggling with how to help her (for now I just listen and extend sympathy and I don't think I can solve their problems but I have directed her to books or other resources that people have suggested).

So if you don't mind, would you tell me more about what you said? She works full-time in a demanding medical profession where she is out of the house and on her feet dealing with a lot of trauma at work. On top of that, she handles everything for the two kids because he just won't read the emails from the school about picture day, etc., and her youngest is too little to remember things like that on his own. The mental labor she talks about is being the one to keep track of and do everything, so how can she feel as though her husband isn't taking advantage of the fact that she keeps everything in place?

I’m not that poster, but this is a deeper relationship thing. It really isn’t just about getting him to understand. He understands.

It’s like when you are sitting down to dinner and your mom asks if she can have some ketchup, and you respond by getting up and getting some ketchup. But if your child asks if she can have some ketchup, you respond by saying “yes” and maybe telling them where to get it. They are both asking the same question, and you know that they both want the same thing, for you to get the ketchup, but your mom has more power than you and your child has less power, so the response is different.

Your friend’s husband isn’t an idiot. He knows that Christmas presents need to be purchased and food needs to be prepared. Creating this dynamic where she is responsible for asking him to do it is about establishing power structures. It’s not that he doesn’t understand what’s being asked of him.

I don’t know what the way is to get out of it. I mean, if you are the child in the situation I described and you ask for the ketchup…How do you get your mom to go get the ketchup, at least some of the time?
There is nothing you can do in the moment. You have to change the entire dynamic of the relationship.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like people have been brainwashed by the whole mental load / weaponized incompetence narrative.

Not applicable in this particular case, because the OP states they are making equal economic contributions, but on average men have the “mental load” of making sure that the family has enough money because they are the primary breadwinners, or are expected to be. Certainly that is not fair, but it is undeniably a social expectation. Different men and different families handle that differently. But I can tell you that it can be quite a burden. And one that men are heavily conditioned not to complain about.

The difference is that there no NYT articles about men’s mental load, or about the weaponized incompetence that many (yes not all) men face when they suggest that their wives might take on a more income producing role. Not to mention the social unacceptability of men quitting the work force to be SAHD, and don’t kid yourself if you think that decision doesn’t raise eyebrows.

I’m quite happy about the lack of discussion of men’s problems — I find whining unattractive. I just wish there wasn’t the pile-on on men.

Almost every woman I know who complains about the mental load is expected to earn money too.

Being expected to earn some money is not the same thing as being expected to be the primary breadwinner, be the last-resort provider for your family. That is where the mental load comes from. As a man you are expected to “own” that problem. Many of the women I know who complain about this (not OP, by her description) earn a fraction of what their husband earns or, in some cases, less than zero — and yet still view themselves as making a meaningful contribution.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I feel like people have been brainwashed by the whole mental load / weaponized incompetence narrative.

Not applicable in this particular case, because the OP states they are making equal economic contributions, but on average men have the “mental load” of making sure that the family has enough money because they are the primary breadwinners, or are expected to be. Certainly that is not fair, but it is undeniably a social expectation. Different men and different families handle that differently. But I can tell you that it can be quite a burden. And one that men are heavily conditioned not to complain about.

The difference is that there no NYT articles about men’s mental load, or about the weaponized incompetence that many (yes not all) men face when they suggest that their wives might take on a more income producing role. Not to mention the social unacceptability of men quitting the work force to be SAHD, and don’t kid yourself if you think that decision doesn’t raise eyebrows.

I’m quite happy about the lack of discussion of men’s problems — I find whining unattractive. I just wish there wasn’t the pile-on on men.

Won't someone think of the men?!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: It's a mentality shift. She has an expectation that he "should" do something. Do more, get involved, read the emails, whatever it is. There's the task that needs doing (making sure the kids have what they need) and the expectation about who "should" do it. The first part isn't gonna move much. If you want school pictures, you need to buy them and there's usually a deadline (there's flexibility here, and it's not a world-ender either way, but that's the example you used so let's go with it). If she wants school pictures, she can buy them, dress the kid how she might like, and enjoy the fact that she has the resources to do so. Or, she can stew about how she 'had' to do it, and he 'should've' helped.

Expectations are premeditated resentments.

The overwhelming majority of this strife is internal. We hold some belief that we "shouldn't have to" shoulder the mental load. You can just as easily shift that to gratitude for being able to shoulder the mental load. It's the same mental load either way, but you do get to choose how you feel about it. If you want to feel resentful, keep telling yourself a person you don't control should do things differently. If you want to feel proud and grateful, congratulate yourself for doing the work.

If it's things that need to get done, reframe how you see them. But also? A lot of the stuff we "need" (e.g. wrapping Christmas presents), we really don't. We use the same "should" to force labor onto ourselves that, realistically, nobody asked for and most could probably go without. And then, if/when you drop the holiday whatever that was important to your spouse, well, there's an invitation for him to pick it up. "Thanks for letting me know it's important to you to have a 4-course Christmas meal. Are you thinking about making one, or would a suggestion for catering/pick up be more helpful?"

There's a sort of pervasive USian whining culture, pride in be busy to the point of exhaustion. It creeps in and we start to believe it. The reality is that most of us are no busier than we choose to be, and not taking responsibility for our choices. Controlling other people and their behavior isn't a choice we get to make, and we can choose to control our own actions, attitudes, and energy expenditures. Resentments are a warning that boundaries have been crossed. If we're honest, it's usually us having crossed them ourselves, doing/giving more than we can reasonably do/give while staying in balance.

And there's always the final vibe check: Would I be doing this as a single parent? If yes, then you're probably doing it because you care about it for yourself and/or your kid (i.e. it matters to you). Change your attitude about it. If no, you might be doing it because someone else expects it of you, or you think they do (i.e. this is how it was when you were growing up, your spouse likes it this way, you feel obligated to do this non-essential thing for someone beyond yourself that isn't your kid). Change your behavior about it.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Change you expectations or just get a divorce

OP here. Meaning accept I am solely responsible for the mental load?

DP

Yes your mental load is your responsibility.

So my husband has absolutely no responsibility to make sure his kids receive gifts from Santa, there is a Christmas tree and groceries to eat on the 25th?

You’re suggesting this should all be on me?

Your husbands mental load is his responsibility.

If your mental loads are at capacity, prioritize the groceries.

Why am I expected to be in charge of the groceries…why can’t he be?

I'm not sure this helps you, but DH has weaponized incompetence and our child would probably die or definitely not thrive under his care. So I buy groceries and cook good meals for me and DS, but because DH refuses to participate, he goes to KFC. His choice.

He probably did this after being henpecked and criticized on earlier attempts to take initiative.

There’s a reason men adopt “happy wife, happy life”.

Yes. As a dude, so much easier and better for everyone if you just do what you’re told. You learn that fast.

Victimese is so unattractive.

[Anonymous]

Absolutely obsessed with these people who assume the woman resentful of the mental load must be a SAHM or has some sort of “for fun” job. I know moms in hetero marriages who are the default parent and household manager and make double what the husband makes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like people have been brainwashed by the whole mental load / weaponized incompetence narrative.

Not applicable in this particular case, because the OP states they are making equal economic contributions, but on average men have the “mental load” of making sure that the family has enough money because they are the primary breadwinners, or are expected to be. Certainly that is not fair, but it is undeniably a social expectation. Different men and different families handle that differently. But I can tell you that it can be quite a burden. And one that men are heavily conditioned not to complain about.

The difference is that there no NYT articles about men’s mental load, or about the weaponized incompetence that many (yes not all) men face when they suggest that their wives might take on a more income producing role. Not to mention the social unacceptability of men quitting the work force to be SAHD, and don’t kid yourself if you think that decision doesn’t raise eyebrows.

I’m quite happy about the lack of discussion of men’s problems — I find whining unattractive. I just wish there wasn’t the pile-on on men.

Almost every woman I know who complains about the mental load is expected to earn money too.

+1 It's very rarely a woman complaining about the mental load when her partner is a provider. But in two-income households, very rarely is the mental load split equitably. A lot of men expect women to be the homemaker without being the provider.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like people have been brainwashed by the whole mental load / weaponized incompetence narrative.

Not applicable in this particular case, because the OP states they are making equal economic contributions, but on average men have the “mental load” of making sure that the family has enough money because they are the primary breadwinners, or are expected to be. Certainly that is not fair, but it is undeniably a social expectation. Different men and different families handle that differently. But I can tell you that it can be quite a burden. And one that men are heavily conditioned not to complain about.

The difference is that there no NYT articles about men’s mental load, or about the weaponized incompetence that many (yes not all) men face when they suggest that their wives might take on a more income producing role. Not to mention the social unacceptability of men quitting the work force to be SAHD, and don’t kid yourself if you think that decision doesn’t raise eyebrows.

I’m quite happy about the lack of discussion of men’s problems — I find whining unattractive. I just wish there wasn’t the pile-on on men.

Almost every woman I know who complains about the mental load is expected to earn money too.

+1 It's very rarely a woman complaining about the mental load when her partner is a provider. But in two-income households, very rarely is the mental load split equitably. A lot of men expect women to be the homemaker without being the provider.

Oh no, they complain too! Ask me how I know.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Change you expectations or just get a divorce

OP here. Meaning accept I am solely responsible for the mental load?

DP

Yes your mental load is your responsibility.

So my husband has absolutely no responsibility to make sure his kids receive gifts from Santa, there is a Christmas tree and groceries to eat on the 25th?

You’re suggesting this should all be on me?

Your husbands mental load is his responsibility.

If your mental loads are at capacity, prioritize the groceries.

Why am I expected to be in charge of the groceries…why can’t he be?

I'm not sure this helps you, but DH has weaponized incompetence and our child would probably die or definitely not thrive under his care. So I buy groceries and cook good meals for me and DS, but because DH refuses to participate, he goes to KFC. His choice.

He probably did this after being henpecked and criticized on earlier attempts to take initiative.

Bingo! Had this happen just a couple weekends ago. Wife was out for the day, so I went and got the tree, put it up, got out the Xmas decorations and decorated the house. What did I get when she returned? Criticism of where I put decorations, complaining she wasn’t part of it, and she literally said “no one asked you to do this.” Lesson learned!

Sure, Steve. It happened just like that...

[Anonymous]

If you don't have a partner in your husband and it is breaking you, divorce. Seriously.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Absolutely obsessed with these people who assume the woman resentful of the mental load must be a SAHM or has some sort of “for fun” job. I know moms in hetero marriages who are the default parent and household manager and make double what the husband makes.

Statistically these cases are rare as you are well aware.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can be free of the resentment whenever you choose to put it down.

I am the superior parent. Without my spouse, the kids would be okay. They have me. Without me, the kids are FOOKED. I win. I take pride in it. I don't sit and stew about how their other parent could never. I pat myself on the back because I can, and I did. If you're better with the mental load, GOOD FOR YOU.

Nobody can take advantage of your mental labor without your consent. You either need to restructure your household or reframe your mentality. The latter is always within your control.

I have a friend currently going through what OP is describing and I find this statement you made really interesting. I'm at a loss as to how to help her because my husband is an equal partner so while I hear what she is telling me, I am struggling with understanding it but mostly I am struggling with how to help her (for now I just listen and extend sympathy and I don't think I can solve their problems but I have directed her to books or other resources that people have suggested).

So if you don't mind, would you tell me more about what you said? She works full-time in a demanding medical profession where she is out of the house and on her feet dealing with a lot of trauma at work. On top of that, she handles everything for the two kids because he just won't read the emails from the school about picture day, etc., and her youngest is too little to remember things like that on his own. The mental labor she talks about is being the one to keep track of and do everything, so how can she feel as though her husband isn't taking advantage of the fact that she keeps everything in place?

I’m not that poster, but this is a deeper relationship thing. It really isn’t just about getting him to understand. He understands.

It’s like when you are sitting down to dinner and your mom asks if she can have some ketchup, and you respond by getting up and getting some ketchup. But if your child asks if she can have some ketchup, you respond by saying “yes” and maybe telling them where to get it. They are both asking the same question, and you know that they both want the same thing, for you to get the ketchup, but your mom has more power than you and your child has less power, so the response is different.

Your friend’s husband isn’t an idiot. He knows that Christmas presents need to be purchased and food needs to be prepared. Creating this dynamic where she is responsible for asking him to do it is about establishing power structures. It’s not that he doesn’t understand what’s being asked of him.

I don’t know what the way is to get out of it. I mean, if you are the child in the situation I described and you ask for the ketchup…How do you get your mom to go get the ketchup, at least some of the time?
There is nothing you can do in the moment. You have to change the entire dynamic of the relationship.

Use the example of a woman who does the shopping for presents because she assumes her man won't and she doesn't disappoint the kids. She might be surprised to find he also doesn't want to disappoint the kids, but she's not willing to risk the kids' disappointment. He knows that, he knows she won't let them go without, and so he does nothing, knowing she's got it covered.

Drop it once, and you'll see just how quickly he learns how to shop for presents. Same with cooking dinner, shopping for groceries, etc. If you're doing those things because your spouse isn't reliable, your spouse isn't doing those things because you are. Either learn to get your satisfaction from being reliable/responsible/the one who gets it done, or stop doing it. If your spouse truly can't pick up the slack, well, you can buy presents, make dinner, etc. as a single parent without the dead weight.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like people have been brainwashed by the whole mental load / weaponized incompetence narrative.

Not applicable in this particular case, because the OP states they are making equal economic contributions, but on average men have the “mental load” of making sure that the family has enough money because they are the primary breadwinners, or are expected to be. Certainly that is not fair, but it is undeniably a social expectation. Different men and different families handle that differently. But I can tell you that it can be quite a burden. And one that men are heavily conditioned not to complain about.

The difference is that there no NYT articles about men’s mental load, or about the weaponized incompetence that many (yes not all) men face when they suggest that their wives might take on a more income producing role. Not to mention the social unacceptability of men quitting the work force to be SAHD, and don’t kid yourself if you think that decision doesn’t raise eyebrows.

I’m quite happy about the lack of discussion of men’s problems — I find whining unattractive. I just wish there wasn’t the pile-on on men.

Almost every woman I know who complains about the mental load is expected to earn money too.

+1 It's very rarely a woman complaining about the mental load when her partner is a provider. But in two-income households, very rarely is the mental load split equitably. A lot of men expect women to be the homemaker without being the provider.

Oh no, they complain too! Ask me how I know.

Poor you. It must be so hard to be you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Absolutely obsessed with these people who assume the woman resentful of the mental load must be a SAHM or has some sort of “for fun” job. I know moms in hetero marriages who are the default parent and household manager and make double what the husband makes.

Statistically these cases are rare as you are well aware.

Not as rare as men who fully fulfill a traditional "provider" role. *shrug*

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Absolutely obsessed with these people who assume the woman resentful of the mental load must be a SAHM or has some sort of “for fun” job. I know moms in hetero marriages who are the default parent and household manager and make double what the husband makes.

Statistically these cases are rare as you are well aware.

Maybe making double is rare. Women working full-time with kids along with their husbands is not. In fact, in 45% of marriages, the wife earns the same or more.

https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2023/04/13/in-a-growing-share-of-u-s-marriages-husbands-and-wives-earn-about-the-same/