Extreme resentment over mental load

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Absolutely obsessed with these people who assume the woman resentful of the mental load must be a SAHM or has some sort of “for fun” job. I know moms in hetero marriages who are the default parent and household manager and make double what the husband makes.

Statistically these cases are rare as you are well aware.

Maybe making double is rare. Women working full-time with kids along with their husbands is not. In fact, in 45% of marriages, the wife earns the same or more.

https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2023/04/13/in-a-growing-share-of-u-s-marriages-husbands-and-wives-earn-about-the-same/

+1

I make almost 3 times what my husband does, and I know a number of other women in a similar position. We are all the default parents and carry the majority of the mental load.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can be free of the resentment whenever you choose to put it down.

I am the superior parent. Without my spouse, the kids would be okay. They have me. Without me, the kids are FOOKED. I win. I take pride in it. I don't sit and stew about how their other parent could never. I pat myself on the back because I can, and I did. If you're better with the mental load, GOOD FOR YOU.

Nobody can take advantage of your mental labor without your consent. You either need to restructure your household or reframe your mentality. The latter is always within your control.

I have a friend currently going through what OP is describing and I find this statement you made really interesting. I'm at a loss as to how to help her because my husband is an equal partner so while I hear what she is telling me, I am struggling with understanding it but mostly I am struggling with how to help her (for now I just listen and extend sympathy and I don't think I can solve their problems but I have directed her to books or other resources that people have suggested).

So if you don't mind, would you tell me more about what you said? She works full-time in a demanding medical profession where she is out of the house and on her feet dealing with a lot of trauma at work. On top of that, she handles everything for the two kids because he just won't read the emails from the school about picture day, etc., and her youngest is too little to remember things like that on his own. The mental labor she talks about is being the one to keep track of and do everything, so how can she feel as though her husband isn't taking advantage of the fact that she keeps everything in place?

I’m not that poster, but this is a deeper relationship thing. It really isn’t just about getting him to understand. He understands.

It’s like when you are sitting down to dinner and your mom asks if she can have some ketchup, and you respond by getting up and getting some ketchup. But if your child asks if she can have some ketchup, you respond by saying “yes” and maybe telling them where to get it. They are both asking the same question, and you know that they both want the same thing, for you to get the ketchup, but your mom has more power than you and your child has less power, so the response is different.

Your friend’s husband isn’t an idiot. He knows that Christmas presents need to be purchased and food needs to be prepared. Creating this dynamic where she is responsible for asking him to do it is about establishing power structures. It’s not that he doesn’t understand what’s being asked of him.

I don’t know what the way is to get out of it. I mean, if you are the child in the situation I described and you ask for the ketchup…How do you get your mom to go get the ketchup, at least some of the time?
There is nothing you can do in the moment. You have to change the entire dynamic of the relationship.

Use the example of a woman who does the shopping for presents because she assumes her man won't and she doesn't disappoint the kids. She might be surprised to find he also doesn't want to disappoint the kids, but she's not willing to risk the kids' disappointment. He knows that, he knows she won't let them go without, and so he does nothing, knowing she's got it covered.

Drop it once, and you'll see just how quickly he learns how to shop for presents. Same with cooking dinner, shopping for groceries, etc. If you're doing those things because your spouse isn't reliable, your spouse isn't doing those things because you are. Either learn to get your satisfaction from being reliable/responsible/the one who gets it done, or stop doing it. If your spouse truly can't pick up the slack, well, you can buy presents, make dinner, etc. as a single parent without the dead weight.

I’m a woman married to a woman, so it’s not a gender thing in my household, but my wife will either not eat or order delivery if I don’t manage all food prep. I tried this and she simultaneously lost 15 pounds and our food spending tripled. We didn’t have money in the budget to DoorDash every day, but my wife didn’t care.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you don't have a partner in your husband and it is breaking you, divorce. Seriously.

It's a really good vibe check. Are you willing to do this alone? If so, ditch the not-partner and do it alone. Otherwise, figure out what's so upsetting about it and shift your attitude. Maybe you need to cut back, or maybe you're tired and overreacting. Or maybe you need to ask for help you haven't articulated needing, instead of assuming your partner knows. Do what you can to adjust your circumstances, then adjust your perception and attitude about them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can be free of the resentment whenever you choose to put it down.

I am the superior parent. Without my spouse, the kids would be okay. They have me. Without me, the kids are FOOKED. I win. I take pride in it. I don't sit and stew about how their other parent could never. I pat myself on the back because I can, and I did. If you're better with the mental load, GOOD FOR YOU.

Nobody can take advantage of your mental labor without your consent. You either need to restructure your household or reframe your mentality. The latter is always within your control.

I love this reframing of this PP.

Thanks! It also stops me from feeling guilty for "asking my partner to help". I do enough, and I deserve time off.

To the pp who says it's terrible, and there are no 'winners', sure, sure. But a little friendly competition tends to increase performance across the board. Maybe instead of making excuses for crap behavior, it could inspire a spouse to do more. If it doesn't work for you, that's fine. Go stew in your resentments. Not my life, not my problem. :mrgreen:

Farming it competitively like that just creates an awful dynamic for kids. You do you, though. It doesn't really sound "friendly", no matter how you try to reframe it.

You're really upset about it, which means you should probably look at why another person's take got under your skin this way. Stewing in your resentments isn't good for the kids either. Whatever you choose, you need to find a way to make it work. Good luck.

Not upset at all lol. Why do you keep insisting? Afraid of a little pushback? Sounds like you are the one with some issues to work through.

Lil buddy, I'm good. You keep responding at me instead of responding to the point. I'm gonna let you do that. Best of luck with it, random anon who doesn't know me at all.

Mhmm, but you clearly know me. Post foolishness; get pushback. That's how forums work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can be free of the resentment whenever you choose to put it down.

I am the superior parent. Without my spouse, the kids would be okay. They have me. Without me, the kids are FOOKED. I win. I take pride in it. I don't sit and stew about how their other parent could never. I pat myself on the back because I can, and I did. If you're better with the mental load, GOOD FOR YOU.

Nobody can take advantage of your mental labor without your consent. You either need to restructure your household or reframe your mentality. The latter is always within your control.

I have a friend currently going through what OP is describing and I find this statement you made really interesting. I'm at a loss as to how to help her because my husband is an equal partner so while I hear what she is telling me, I am struggling with understanding it but mostly I am struggling with how to help her (for now I just listen and extend sympathy and I don't think I can solve their problems but I have directed her to books or other resources that people have suggested).

So if you don't mind, would you tell me more about what you said? She works full-time in a demanding medical profession where she is out of the house and on her feet dealing with a lot of trauma at work. On top of that, she handles everything for the two kids because he just won't read the emails from the school about picture day, etc., and her youngest is too little to remember things like that on his own. The mental labor she talks about is being the one to keep track of and do everything, so how can she feel as though her husband isn't taking advantage of the fact that she keeps everything in place?

I’m not that poster, but this is a deeper relationship thing. It really isn’t just about getting him to understand. He understands.

It’s like when you are sitting down to dinner and your mom asks if she can have some ketchup, and you respond by getting up and getting some ketchup. But if your child asks if she can have some ketchup, you respond by saying “yes” and maybe telling them where to get it. They are both asking the same question, and you know that they both want the same thing, for you to get the ketchup, but your mom has more power than you and your child has less power, so the response is different.

Your friend’s husband isn’t an idiot. He knows that Christmas presents need to be purchased and food needs to be prepared. Creating this dynamic where she is responsible for asking him to do it is about establishing power structures. It’s not that he doesn’t understand what’s being asked of him.

I don’t know what the way is to get out of it. I mean, if you are the child in the situation I described and you ask for the ketchup…How do you get your mom to go get the ketchup, at least some of the time?
There is nothing you can do in the moment. You have to change the entire dynamic of the relationship.

Use the example of a woman who does the shopping for presents because she assumes her man won't and she doesn't disappoint the kids. She might be surprised to find he also doesn't want to disappoint the kids, but she's not willing to risk the kids' disappointment. He knows that, he knows she won't let them go without, and so he does nothing, knowing she's got it covered.

Drop it once, and you'll see just how quickly he learns how to shop for presents. Same with cooking dinner, shopping for groceries, etc. If you're doing those things because your spouse isn't reliable, your spouse isn't doing those things because you are. Either learn to get your satisfaction from being reliable/responsible/the one who gets it done, or stop doing it. If your spouse truly can't pick up the slack, well, you can buy presents, make dinner, etc. as a single parent without the dead weight.

I’m a woman married to a woman, so it’s not a gender thing in my household, but my wife will either not eat or order delivery if I don’t manage all food prep. I tried this and she simultaneously lost 15 pounds and our food spending tripled. We didn’t have money in the budget to DoorDash every day, but my wife didn’t care.

Assuming your wife is a functional adult, remove the budget access and try again. Has she seriously never cooked for herself? This is an essential life skill, and she should learn. What if you die tomorrow? She needs to understand how to feed herself and budget her money for her own safety. Stop enabling her BS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can be free of the resentment whenever you choose to put it down.

I am the superior parent. Without my spouse, the kids would be okay. They have me. Without me, the kids are FOOKED. I win. I take pride in it. I don't sit and stew about how their other parent could never. I pat myself on the back because I can, and I did. If you're better with the mental load, GOOD FOR YOU.

Nobody can take advantage of your mental labor without your consent. You either need to restructure your household or reframe your mentality. The latter is always within your control.

I love this reframing of this PP.

Thanks! It also stops me from feeling guilty for "asking my partner to help". I do enough, and I deserve time off.

To the pp who says it's terrible, and there are no 'winners', sure, sure. But a little friendly competition tends to increase performance across the board. Maybe instead of making excuses for crap behavior, it could inspire a spouse to do more. If it doesn't work for you, that's fine. Go stew in your resentments. Not my life, not my problem. :mrgreen:

Farming it competitively like that just creates an awful dynamic for kids. You do you, though. It doesn't really sound "friendly", no matter how you try to reframe it.

You're really upset about it, which means you should probably look at why another person's take got under your skin this way. Stewing in your resentments isn't good for the kids either. Whatever you choose, you need to find a way to make it work. Good luck.

Not upset at all lol. Why do you keep insisting? Afraid of a little pushback? Sounds like you are the one with some issues to work through.

Lil buddy, I'm good. You keep responding at me instead of responding to the point. I'm gonna let you do that. Best of luck with it, random anon who doesn't know me at all.

Mhmm, but you clearly know me. Post foolishness; get pushback. That's how forums work.

Okay, hon. *shrug*

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Absolutely obsessed with these people who assume the woman resentful of the mental load must be a SAHM or has some sort of “for fun” job. I know moms in hetero marriages who are the default parent and household manager and make double what the husband makes.

Statistically these cases are rare as you are well aware.

Maybe making double is rare. Women working full-time with kids along with their husbands is not. In fact, in 45% of marriages, the wife earns the same or more.

https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2023/04/13/in-a-growing-share-of-u-s-marriages-husbands-and-wives-earn-about-the-same/

+1

I make almost 3 times what my husband does, and I know a number of other women in a similar position. We are all the default parents and carry the majority of the mental load.

So stop.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Absolutely obsessed with these people who assume the woman resentful of the mental load must be a SAHM or has some sort of “for fun” job. I know moms in hetero marriages who are the default parent and household manager and make double what the husband makes.

Statistically these cases are rare as you are well aware.

Maybe making double is rare. Women working full-time with kids along with their husbands is not. In fact, in 45% of marriages, the wife earns the same or more.

https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2023/04/13/in-a-growing-share-of-u-s-marriages-husbands-and-wives-earn-about-the-same/

+1

I make almost 3 times what my husband does, and I know a number of other women in a similar position. We are all the default parents and carry the majority of the mental load.

So stop.

Exactly. Just. Let. Go. So much whining, yuck.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like people have been brainwashed by the whole mental load / weaponized incompetence narrative.

Not applicable in this particular case, because the OP states they are making equal economic contributions, but on average men have the “mental load” of making sure that the family has enough money because they are the primary breadwinners, or are expected to be. Certainly that is not fair, but it is undeniably a social expectation. Different men and different families handle that differently. But I can tell you that it can be quite a burden. And one that men are heavily conditioned not to complain about.

The difference is that there no NYT articles about men’s mental load, or about the weaponized incompetence that many (yes not all) men face when they suggest that their wives might take on a more income producing role. Not to mention the social unacceptability of men quitting the work force to be SAHD, and don’t kid yourself if you think that decision doesn’t raise eyebrows.

I’m quite happy about the lack of discussion of men’s problems — I find whining unattractive. I just wish there wasn’t the pile-on on men.

Almost every woman I know who complains about the mental load is expected to earn money too.

+1 It's very rarely a woman complaining about the mental load when her partner is a provider. But in two-income households, very rarely is the mental load split equitably. A lot of men expect women to be the homemaker without being the provider.

This is not a happy message but. Me downshifting my job (and forgoing a ton of income) truly saved my marriage.

I used to be just like OP. I think maybe my DH was worse, but this might be true for her too: not only did I have to assign him tasks, I then had to chase him to do what he committed to (“hey it’s December 17 and we still don’t have the tree you said you’d get?”).

We both made the same income because we met in the same grad school program then got essentially the same job.

I really tried to pare this stuff down to the bare minimum but no matter how deep I cut he’d want to cut even deeper. (“Do kids actually NEED a birthday party?”).

So I quit my job and picked up something easier for a fraction of the pay. Now I’m actually grateful for what he is ready and able to contribute to the household (money) and have the bandwidth to run a household the way I think it should be.

Obviously this was only after sorting through a LOT of resentment. But eventually I came to accept that I was not born in an era where truly equal marriages are the default, that I wanted to keep my family together, and that I do love this birthday-denying weirdo.

OP I wish you luck in figuring it out. It is not easy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can be free of the resentment whenever you choose to put it down.

I am the superior parent. Without my spouse, the kids would be okay. They have me. Without me, the kids are FOOKED. I win. I take pride in it. I don't sit and stew about how their other parent could never. I pat myself on the back because I can, and I did. If you're better with the mental load, GOOD FOR YOU.

Nobody can take advantage of your mental labor without your consent. You either need to restructure your household or reframe your mentality. The latter is always within your control.

I have a friend currently going through what OP is describing and I find this statement you made really interesting. I'm at a loss as to how to help her because my husband is an equal partner so while I hear what she is telling me, I am struggling with understanding it but mostly I am struggling with how to help her (for now I just listen and extend sympathy and I don't think I can solve their problems but I have directed her to books or other resources that people have suggested).

So if you don't mind, would you tell me more about what you said? She works full-time in a demanding medical profession where she is out of the house and on her feet dealing with a lot of trauma at work. On top of that, she handles everything for the two kids because he just won't read the emails from the school about picture day, etc., and her youngest is too little to remember things like that on his own. The mental labor she talks about is being the one to keep track of and do everything, so how can she feel as though her husband isn't taking advantage of the fact that she keeps everything in place?

I’m not that poster, but this is a deeper relationship thing. It really isn’t just about getting him to understand. He understands.

It’s like when you are sitting down to dinner and your mom asks if she can have some ketchup, and you respond by getting up and getting some ketchup. But if your child asks if she can have some ketchup, you respond by saying “yes” and maybe telling them where to get it. They are both asking the same question, and you know that they both want the same thing, for you to get the ketchup, but your mom has more power than you and your child has less power, so the response is different.

Your friend’s husband isn’t an idiot. He knows that Christmas presents need to be purchased and food needs to be prepared. Creating this dynamic where she is responsible for asking him to do it is about establishing power structures. It’s not that he doesn’t understand what’s being asked of him.

I don’t know what the way is to get out of it. I mean, if you are the child in the situation I described and you ask for the ketchup…How do you get your mom to go get the ketchup, at least some of the time?
There is nothing you can do in the moment. You have to change the entire dynamic of the relationship.

Use the example of a woman who does the shopping for presents because she assumes her man won't and she doesn't disappoint the kids. She might be surprised to find he also doesn't want to disappoint the kids, but she's not willing to risk the kids' disappointment. He knows that, he knows she won't let them go without, and so he does nothing, knowing she's got it covered.

Drop it once, and you'll see just how quickly he learns how to shop for presents. Same with cooking dinner, shopping for groceries, etc. If you're doing those things because your spouse isn't reliable, your spouse isn't doing those things because you are. Either learn to get your satisfaction from being reliable/responsible/the one who gets it done, or stop doing it. If your spouse truly can't pick up the slack, well, you can buy presents, make dinner, etc. as a single parent without the dead weight.

I’m a woman married to a woman, so it’s not a gender thing in my household, but my wife will either not eat or order delivery if I don’t manage all food prep. I tried this and she simultaneously lost 15 pounds and our food spending tripled. We didn’t have money in the budget to DoorDash every day, but my wife didn’t care.

Assuming your wife is a functional adult, remove the budget access and try again. Has she seriously never cooked for herself? This is an essential life skill, and she should learn. What if you die tomorrow? She needs to understand how to feed herself and budget her money for her own safety. Stop enabling her BS.

She joined the military at 18 and was either fed there or got take out 99% of the time. Her living expenses were extremely low at most of her duty stations, plus the dining options were cheap and terrible, so she never worried about money.

I ask her what she would do if I wasn’t around, and she says “starve.” I don’t even think she’s really lying. She’d bankrupt herself on DoorDash and still probably wouldn’t eat enough.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Absolutely obsessed with these people who assume the woman resentful of the mental load must be a SAHM or has some sort of “for fun” job. I know moms in hetero marriages who are the default parent and household manager and make double what the husband makes.

Statistically these cases are rare as you are well aware.

Maybe making double is rare. Women working full-time with kids along with their husbands is not. In fact, in 45% of marriages, the wife earns the same or more.

https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2023/04/13/in-a-growing-share-of-u-s-marriages-husbands-and-wives-earn-about-the-same/

+1

I make almost 3 times what my husband does, and I know a number of other women in a similar position. We are all the default parents and carry the majority of the mental load.

So stop.

And neglect the children? Yeah, great solution.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: +1

I make almost 3 times what my husband does, and I know a number of other women in a similar position. We are all the default parents and carry the majority of the mental load.

If these women are amenable to outsourcing gift wrapping and tree decorating and Christmas dinner preparing, they should.

I outsource what I don't want on my mental load. People resist this because they want to wrap gifts. Not everyone does. But it is not uncommon.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like people have been brainwashed by the whole mental load / weaponized incompetence narrative.

Not applicable in this particular case, because the OP states they are making equal economic contributions, but on average men have the “mental load” of making sure that the family has enough money because they are the primary breadwinners, or are expected to be. Certainly that is not fair, but it is undeniably a social expectation. Different men and different families handle that differently. But I can tell you that it can be quite a burden. And one that men are heavily conditioned not to complain about.

The difference is that there no NYT articles about men’s mental load, or about the weaponized incompetence that many (yes not all) men face when they suggest that their wives might take on a more income producing role. Not to mention the social unacceptability of men quitting the work force to be SAHD, and don’t kid yourself if you think that decision doesn’t raise eyebrows.

I’m quite happy about the lack of discussion of men’s problems — I find whining unattractive. I just wish there wasn’t the pile-on on men.

Almost every woman I know who complains about the mental load is expected to earn money too.

+1 It's very rarely a woman complaining about the mental load when her partner is a provider. But in two-income households, very rarely is the mental load split equitably. A lot of men expect women to be the homemaker without being the provider.

This is not a happy message but. Me downshifting my job (and forgoing a ton of income) truly saved my marriage.

I used to be just like OP. I think maybe my DH was worse, but this might be true for her too: not only did I have to assign him tasks, I then had to chase him to do what he committed to (“hey it’s December 17 and we still don’t have the tree you said you’d get?”).

We both made the same income because we met in the same grad school program then got essentially the same job.

I really tried to pare this stuff down to the bare minimum but no matter how deep I cut he’d want to cut even deeper. (“Do kids actually NEED a birthday party?”).

So I quit my job and picked up something easier for a fraction of the pay. Now I’m actually grateful for what he is ready and able to contribute to the household (money) and have the bandwidth to run a household the way I think it should be.

Obviously this was only after sorting through a LOT of resentment. But eventually I came to accept that I was not born in an era where truly equal marriages are the default, that I wanted to keep my family together, and that I do love this birthday-denying weirdo.

OP I wish you luck in figuring it out. It is not easy.

This is the most helpful thing I have read. Thank you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Absolutely obsessed with these people who assume the woman resentful of the mental load must be a SAHM or has some sort of “for fun” job. I know moms in hetero marriages who are the default parent and household manager and make double what the husband makes.

Statistically these cases are rare as you are well aware.

Maybe making double is rare. Women working full-time with kids along with their husbands is not. In fact, in 45% of marriages, the wife earns the same or more.

https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2023/04/13/in-a-growing-share-of-u-s-marriages-husbands-and-wives-earn-about-the-same/

+1

I make almost 3 times what my husband does, and I know a number of other women in a similar position. We are all the default parents and carry the majority of the mental load.

So stop.

And neglect the children? Yeah, great solution.

Your children will be fine. You like to tell yourself otherwise to justify all the extra you want to do and make yourself the hero and center of the story. Children don't need all of this extra crap.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: +1

I make almost 3 times what my husband does, and I know a number of other women in a similar position. We are all the default parents and carry the majority of the mental load.

If these women are amenable to outsourcing gift wrapping and tree decorating and Christmas dinner preparing, they should.

I outsource what I don't want on my mental load. People resist this because they want to wrap gifts. Not everyone does. But it is not uncommon.

Or because they think about that money going toward retirement accounts or college funds.