URMs Feeling Pressure to Prove Themselves

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP - I am the mother of an Asian American kid. She is smart, hard working and throws herself into her EC’s. She is doing incredibly well at school. Both she and I support affirmative action. We both understand why from a perspective of providing chances for black and brown (although not brown like her) kids to see themselves in these fields requires changing the makeup of the workforce being trained. That is all well and good. But it tone deaf of you to not appreciate that your (equally smart and talented) daughter has an advantage over mine and to complain about ignorant people’s diminishing of your daughter’s accomplishments. From a societal level, I support you. From a mom dealing with college apps for her brilliant kid, I would rather be in your place.

Do you have that same feeling about job applications? Internship selections? Pay? Loan applications? Would you rather be in her daughters shoes in any of those scenarios? How about when facing a jury of your peers? Oh I see, it’s only when it comes to college admissions and you have skin in the game. Tone deaf indeed.

DP. What makes you think an Asian woman is not discriminated against when it comes to jobs, internships and pay? Most Asians try to lead lives so they are not on the other side of a jury, ever.. so there's that. Maybe others should try that too. You are the one that seems to be tone deaf.

+ 1 million

Data perhaps? https://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2018/asian-women-and-men-earned-more-than-their-white-black-and-hispanic-counterparts-in-2017.

cutoff the link https://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2018/asian-women-and-men-earned-more-than-their-white-black-and-hispanic-counterparts-in-2017.htm

DP.. that data doesn't mean what you think it means.

They make more because they are more educated. Asian Americans are the most educated group in this country.

It doesn't mean they don't face discrimination in the workplace. You think the white good ol' boys network who use their legacy and family connections are eager to promote Asian American women to executive level positions? Ever heard of the bamboo ceiling? Please.

Perhaps the data would look differently if more of certain groups prioritized education.

I swear, some people need a basic course in data analysis.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP - I am the mother of an Asian American kid. She is smart, hard working and throws herself into her EC’s. She is doing incredibly well at school. Both she and I support affirmative action. We both understand why from a perspective of providing chances for black and brown (although not brown like her) kids to see themselves in these fields requires changing the makeup of the workforce being trained. That is all well and good. But it tone deaf of you to not appreciate that your (equally smart and talented) daughter has an advantage over mine and to complain about ignorant people’s diminishing of your daughter’s accomplishments. From a societal level, I support you. From a mom dealing with college apps for her brilliant kid, I would rather be in your place.

Do you have that same feeling about job applications? Internship selections? Pay? Loan applications? Would you rather be in her daughters shoes in any of those scenarios? How about when facing a jury of your peers? Oh I see, it’s only when it comes to college admissions and you have skin in the game. Tone deaf indeed.

DP. What makes you think an Asian woman is not discriminated against when it comes to jobs, internships and pay? Most Asians try to lead lives so they are not on the other side of a jury, ever.. so there's that. Maybe others should try that too. You are the one that seems to be tone deaf.

+ 1 million

Data perhaps? https://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2018/asian-women-and-men-earned-more-than-their-white-black-and-hispanic-counterparts-in-2017.

cutoff the link https://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2018/asian-women-and-men-earned-more-than-their-white-black-and-hispanic-counterparts-in-2017.htm

What does this show other than on average Asian Americans are more highly educated than the general population. So the have higher average salaries. Fine. Do you really think that the stereotypes for Asian students (tryhards, robots, etc) don’t hold Asian women (or men) back when considered for leadership and leadership executive positions?

Honesty, people seem to have bought into the myth that because Asian Americans have figured out to rise in the rules set forth for them, they somehow face no discrimination. Which is just dumb. Doesn’t change the fact that colleges should balance their classes and trying to get a good mix of ethnicities is important for many many reasons.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP - I am the mother of an Asian American kid. She is smart, hard working and throws herself into her EC’s. She is doing incredibly well at school. Both she and I support affirmative action. We both understand why from a perspective of providing chances for black and brown (although not brown like her) kids to see themselves in these fields requires changing the makeup of the workforce being trained. That is all well and good. But it tone deaf of you to not appreciate that your (equally smart and talented) daughter has an advantage over mine and to complain about ignorant people’s diminishing of your daughter’s accomplishments. From a societal level, I support you. From a mom dealing with college apps for her brilliant kid, I would rather be in your place.

Do you have that same feeling about job applications? Internship selections? Pay? Loan applications? Would you rather be in her daughters shoes in any of those scenarios? How about when facing a jury of your peers? Oh I see, it’s only when it comes to college admissions and you have skin in the game. Tone deaf indeed.

DP. What makes you think an Asian woman is not discriminated against when it comes to jobs, internships and pay? Most Asians try to lead lives so they are not on the other side of a jury, ever.. so there's that. Maybe others should try that too. You are the one that seems to be tone deaf.

+ 1 million

Data perhaps? https://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2018/asian-women-and-men-earned-more-than-their-white-black-and-hispanic-counterparts-in-2017.

cutoff the link https://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2018/asian-women-and-men-earned-more-than-their-white-black-and-hispanic-counterparts-in-2017.htm

DP.. that data doesn't mean what you think it means.

They make more because they are more educated. Asian Americans are the most educated group in this country.

It doesn't mean they don't face discrimination in the workplace. You think the white good ol' boys network who use their legacy and family connections are eager to promote Asian American women to executive level positions? Ever heard of the bamboo ceiling? Please.

Perhaps the data would look differently if more of certain groups prioritized education.

I swear, some people need a basic course in data analysis.

I’m confused are URMs “taking” your daughter’s spot because they don’t prioritize education? And I asked if you were willing to trade spots with URMs because of pay, the data shows what it shows, by your logic white men are more educated than any other group because they’re paid more? Your bamboo struggle is real but not the struggle of other URMs?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s hard. My husband and I are URM and people have always questioned the schools we went to, ivy and top 20. It almost feels like you have to work even harder to prove that you achieved anything on merit. As much assume affirmative action, we were both top of our respective high school class and he was top of his college class (phi beta kappa) before going to ivy law school with multiple ECs and national awards etc. Yet, people always assume that we only got there bc of affirmative action. Now, even in biglaw, it still doesn’t end. Other partners and associates can graduate from random place whereas every URM has to be from a better law school to be at the same firm. It never ends.

Bolded is the same for legacy admits, recruited athletes, regardless of whether they had stats etc. Welcome to the club.

I don't think these experiences are comparable. Once one has graduated, how would anyone know if the person was an athlete or legacy (assuming their name isn't Roosevelt, Obama, Harriman, etc.)? If one is a URM, I would assume the issue would extend far beyond university because people can see that you present as Black or your last name is "Latino" or whatever. I am a white lady who supports AA in college admissions and in hiring. But I imagine that one of the unintended consequences of AA is that snarky assumption that AA played a role in *everyone's* achievements if they are a URM. One shouldn't have to be a brilliant mind like Condoleezza Rice or Vernon Jordan to be assumed to be worthy of one's position in competitive environments.

If you have a quirky last name, and I Google your first and last name, your dad’s tech VP bio comes up. I search your dad’s name and it just so happens he went to the same college you attend! Then, I Google his full name, and it comes up pics of you and him at a “gala.” Legacy.

Rinse, repeat.

+1. And every former college athlete includes that information on his/her resume when looking for a job -- so that information extends beyond their college careers. Employers know full well athletes were favored in college admissions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s hard. My husband and I are URM and people have always questioned the schools we went to, ivy and top 20. It almost feels like you have to work even harder to prove that you achieved anything on merit. As much assume affirmative action, we were both top of our respective high school class and he was top of his college class (phi beta kappa) before going to ivy law school with multiple ECs and national awards etc. Yet, people always assume that we only got there bc of affirmative action. Now, even in biglaw, it still doesn’t end. Other partners and associates can graduate from random place whereas every URM has to be from a better law school to be at the same firm. It never ends.

Bolded is the same for legacy admits, recruited athletes, regardless of whether they had stats etc. Welcome to the club.

I don't think these experiences are comparable. Once one has graduated, how would anyone know if the person was an athlete or legacy (assuming their name isn't Roosevelt, Obama, Harriman, etc.)? If one is a URM, I would assume the issue would extend far beyond university because people can see that you present as Black or your last name is "Latino" or whatever. I am a white lady who supports AA in college admissions and in hiring. But I imagine that one of the unintended consequences of AA is that snarky assumption that AA played a role in *everyone's* achievements if they are a URM. One shouldn't have to be a brilliant mind like Condoleezza Rice or Vernon Jordan to be assumed to be worthy of one's position in competitive environments.

If you have a quirky last name, and I Google your first and last name, your dad’s tech VP bio comes up. I search your dad’s name and it just so happens he went to the same college you attend! Then, I Google his full name, and it comes up pics of you and him at a “gala.” Legacy.

Rinse, repeat.

+1. And every former college athlete includes that information on his/her resume when looking for a job -- so that information extends beyond their college careers. Employers know full well athletes were favored in college admissions.

So what you are saying is that legacy and athlete status is a matter of pride, not a matter of shame.

[Anonymous]

Can we please stop making this an Asian vs. URM thing? It’s white people who have set up the system and still benefit from it by putting minorities against each other.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP - I am the mother of an Asian American kid. She is smart, hard working and throws herself into her EC’s. She is doing incredibly well at school. Both she and I support affirmative action. We both understand why from a perspective of providing chances for black and brown (although not brown like her) kids to see themselves in these fields requires changing the makeup of the workforce being trained. That is all well and good. But it tone deaf of you to not appreciate that your (equally smart and talented) daughter has an advantage over mine and to complain about ignorant people’s diminishing of your daughter’s accomplishments. From a societal level, I support you. From a mom dealing with college apps for her brilliant kid, I would rather be in your place.

Do you have that same feeling about job applications? Internship selections? Pay? Loan applications? Would you rather be in her daughters shoes in any of those scenarios? How about when facing a jury of your peers? Oh I see, it’s only when it comes to college admissions and you have skin in the game. Tone deaf indeed.

DP. What makes you think an Asian woman is not discriminated against when it comes to jobs, internships and pay? Most Asians try to lead lives so they are not on the other side of a jury, ever.. so there's that. Maybe others should try that too. You are the one that seems to be tone deaf.

+ 1 million

Data perhaps? https://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2018/asian-women-and-men-earned-more-than-their-white-black-and-hispanic-counterparts-in-2017.

cutoff the link https://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2018/asian-women-and-men-earned-more-than-their-white-black-and-hispanic-counterparts-in-2017.htm

DP.. that data doesn't mean what you think it means.

They make more because they are more educated. Asian Americans are the most educated group in this country.

It doesn't mean they don't face discrimination in the workplace. You think the white good ol' boys network who use their legacy and family connections are eager to promote Asian American women to executive level positions? Ever heard of the bamboo ceiling? Please.

Perhaps the data would look differently if more of certain groups prioritized education.

I swear, some people need a basic course in data analysis.

I’m confused are URMs “taking” your daughter’s spot because they don’t prioritize education? And I asked if you were willing to trade spots with URMs because of pay, the data shows what it shows, by your logic white men are more educated than any other group because they’re paid more? Your bamboo struggle is real but not the struggle of other URMs?

I think you are mixing me up (the person who wrote about her daughter) with the poster above. I have never ever claimed anyone was “taking” my daughter’s spot at anything. No spot is owed to her anywhere. And there is no way of knowing what about her application led to it being rejected (if she is in fact rejected). Statistics would suggest that if there was a “competition” for a specific spot (not at all how it works), she most likely didn’t “lose out” to a URM simply because there are more non-URMs in the accepted pool.

All I said is that the OP whose kid has a slight advantage over mine should appreciate why it can be hard on me as a parent to watch unfold. Try putting yourself in my shoes. Even if you believe that overall it is the best way to get to a better future for all of us.

As to the question of whether I would want to trade places with the OP in other parts of my daughter’s life. In some cases, yes.

And as to the point about white males having the highest education based on the PP’s logic. That is where you lose me. It’s simple stats to break out different group effects. And I pay you the compliment of believing you know that and are just trying to score a cheap point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP - I am the mother of an Asian American kid. She is smart, hard working and throws herself into her EC’s. She is doing incredibly well at school. Both she and I support affirmative action. We both understand why from a perspective of providing chances for black and brown (although not brown like her) kids to see themselves in these fields requires changing the makeup of the workforce being trained. That is all well and good. But it tone deaf of you to not appreciate that your (equally smart and talented) daughter has an advantage over mine and to complain about ignorant people’s diminishing of your daughter’s accomplishments. From a societal level, I support you. From a mom dealing with college apps for her brilliant kid, I would rather be in your place.

Do you have that same feeling about job applications? Internship selections? Pay? Loan applications? Would you rather be in her daughters shoes in any of those scenarios? How about when facing a jury of your peers? Oh I see, it’s only when it comes to college admissions and you have skin in the game. Tone deaf indeed.

DP. What makes you think an Asian woman is not discriminated against when it comes to jobs, internships and pay? Most Asians try to lead lives so they are not on the other side of a jury, ever.. so there's that. Maybe others should try that too. You are the one that seems to be tone deaf.

+ 1 million

Data perhaps? https://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2018/asian-women-and-men-earned-more-than-their-white-black-and-hispanic-counterparts-in-2017.

cutoff the link https://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2018/asian-women-and-men-earned-more-than-their-white-black-and-hispanic-counterparts-in-2017.htm

What does this show other than on average Asian Americans are more highly educated than the general population. So the have higher average salaries. Fine. Do you really think that the stereotypes for Asian students (tryhards, robots, etc) don’t hold Asian women (or men) back when considered for leadership and leadership executive positions?

Honesty, people seem to have bought into the myth that because Asian Americans have figured out to rise in the rules set forth for them, they somehow face no discrimination. Which is just dumb. Doesn’t change the fact that colleges should balance their classes and trying to get a good mix of ethnicities is important for many many reasons.

Doesn’t seem to be holding back SE Asians any.

[Anonymous]

My DC attends Stanford. Took Calc in high school and is planning to major in the engineering school. I was surprised though to see that there are summer bridge programs for incoming frosh - I remember reading about a program that includes a math class to gain skills in foundational math to prepare them for Calculus. There is also a writing class to prepare students for a writing intensive class required of frosh and sophomores. I believe many if not most are URM. First generation / low income as well. While I’m sure there are URM with exceptional academic backgrounds and competitive with the top in their incoming class, I wouldn’t be surprised if there are more that do not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP - I am the mother of an Asian American kid. She is smart, hard working and throws herself into her EC’s. She is doing incredibly well at school. Both she and I support affirmative action. We both understand why from a perspective of providing chances for black and brown (although not brown like her) kids to see themselves in these fields requires changing the makeup of the workforce being trained. That is all well and good. But it tone deaf of you to not appreciate that your (equally smart and talented) daughter has an advantage over mine and to complain about ignorant people’s diminishing of your daughter’s accomplishments. From a societal level, I support you. From a mom dealing with college apps for her brilliant kid, I would rather be in your place.

Do you have that same feeling about job applications? Internship selections? Pay? Loan applications? Would you rather be in her daughters shoes in any of those scenarios? How about when facing a jury of your peers? Oh I see, it’s only when it comes to college admissions and you have skin in the game. Tone deaf indeed.

DP. What makes you think an Asian woman is not discriminated against when it comes to jobs, internships and pay? Most Asians try to lead lives so they are not on the other side of a jury, ever.. so there's that. Maybe others should try that too. You are the one that seems to be tone deaf.

+ 1 million

Data perhaps? https://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2018/asian-women-and-men-earned-more-than-their-white-black-and-hispanic-counterparts-in-2017.

cutoff the link https://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2018/asian-women-and-men-earned-more-than-their-white-black-and-hispanic-counterparts-in-2017.htm

What does this show other than on average Asian Americans are more highly educated than the general population. So the have higher average salaries. Fine. Do you really think that the stereotypes for Asian students (tryhards, robots, etc) don’t hold Asian women (or men) back when considered for leadership and leadership executive positions?

Honesty, people seem to have bought into the myth that because Asian Americans have figured out to rise in the rules set forth for them, they somehow face no discrimination. Which is just dumb. Doesn’t change the fact that colleges should balance their classes and trying to get a good mix of ethnicities is important for many many reasons.

Do you know what white supremacy is? The system isn't designed to help Asian Americans either. Reason why Asian Americans should be in solidarity with others facing rampant and systemic discrimination - and not try to compartmentalize grievance as it pertains to college admissions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP - I am the mother of an Asian American kid. She is smart, hard working and throws herself into her EC’s. She is doing incredibly well at school. Both she and I support affirmative action. We both understand why from a perspective of providing chances for black and brown (although not brown like her) kids to see themselves in these fields requires changing the makeup of the workforce being trained. That is all well and good. But it tone deaf of you to not appreciate that your (equally smart and talented) daughter has an advantage over mine and to complain about ignorant people’s diminishing of your daughter’s accomplishments. From a societal level, I support you. From a mom dealing with college apps for her brilliant kid, I would rather be in your place.

Do you have that same feeling about job applications? Internship selections? Pay? Loan applications? Would you rather be in her daughters shoes in any of those scenarios? How about when facing a jury of your peers? Oh I see, it’s only when it comes to college admissions and you have skin in the game. Tone deaf indeed.

DP. What makes you think an Asian woman is not discriminated against when it comes to jobs, internships and pay? Most Asians try to lead lives so they are not on the other side of a jury, ever.. so there's that. Maybe others should try that too. You are the one that seems to be tone deaf.

+ 1 million

Data perhaps? https://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2018/asian-women-and-men-earned-more-than-their-white-black-and-hispanic-counterparts-in-2017.

cutoff the link https://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2018/asian-women-and-men-earned-more-than-their-white-black-and-hispanic-counterparts-in-2017.htm

DP.. that data doesn't mean what you think it means.

They make more because they are more educated. Asian Americans are the most educated group in this country.

It doesn't mean they don't face discrimination in the workplace. You think the white good ol' boys network who use their legacy and family connections are eager to promote Asian American women to executive level positions? Ever heard of the bamboo ceiling? Please.

Perhaps the data would look differently if more of certain groups prioritized education.

I swear, some people need a basic course in data analysis.

I’m confused are URMs “taking” your daughter’s spot because they don’t prioritize education? And I asked if you were willing to trade spots with URMs because of pay, the data shows what it shows, by your logic white men are more educated than any other group because they’re paid more? Your bamboo struggle is real but not the struggle of other URMs?

I think you are mixing me up (the person who wrote about her daughter) with the poster above. I have never ever claimed anyone was “taking” my daughter’s spot at anything. No spot is owed to her anywhere. And there is no way of knowing what about her application led to it being rejected (if she is in fact rejected). Statistics would suggest that if there was a “competition” for a specific spot (not at all how it works), she most likely didn’t “lose out” to a URM simply because there are more non-URMs in the accepted pool.

All I said is that the OP whose kid has a slight advantage over mine should appreciate why it can be hard on me as a parent to watch unfold. Try putting yourself in my shoes. Even if you believe that overall it is the best way to get to a better future for all of us.

As to the question of whether I would want to trade places with the OP in other parts of my daughter’s life. In some cases, yes.

And as to the point about white males having the highest education based on the PP’s logic. That is where you lose me. It’s simple stats to break out different group effects. And I pay you the compliment of believing you know that and are just trying to score a cheap point.

Name them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP - I am the mother of an Asian American kid. She is smart, hard working and throws herself into her EC’s. She is doing incredibly well at school. Both she and I support affirmative action. We both understand why from a perspective of providing chances for black and brown (although not brown like her) kids to see themselves in these fields requires changing the makeup of the workforce being trained. That is all well and good. But it tone deaf of you to not appreciate that your (equally smart and talented) daughter has an advantage over mine and to complain about ignorant people’s diminishing of your daughter’s accomplishments. From a societal level, I support you. From a mom dealing with college apps for her brilliant kid, I would rather be in your place.

Do you have that same feeling about job applications? Internship selections? Pay? Loan applications? Would you rather be in her daughters shoes in any of those scenarios? How about when facing a jury of your peers? Oh I see, it’s only when it comes to college admissions and you have skin in the game. Tone deaf indeed.

DP. What makes you think an Asian woman is not discriminated against when it comes to jobs, internships and pay? Most Asians try to lead lives so they are not on the other side of a jury, ever.. so there's that. Maybe others should try that too. You are the one that seems to be tone deaf.

+ 1 million

Data perhaps? https://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2018/asian-women-and-men-earned-more-than-their-white-black-and-hispanic-counterparts-in-2017.

cutoff the link https://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2018/asian-women-and-men-earned-more-than-their-white-black-and-hispanic-counterparts-in-2017.htm

What does this show other than on average Asian Americans are more highly educated than the general population. So the have higher average salaries. Fine. Do you really think that the stereotypes for Asian students (tryhards, robots, etc) don’t hold Asian women (or men) back when considered for leadership and leadership executive positions?

Honesty, people seem to have bought into the myth that because Asian Americans have figured out to rise in the rules set forth for them, they somehow face no discrimination. Which is just dumb. Doesn’t change the fact that colleges should balance their classes and trying to get a good mix of ethnicities is important for many many reasons.

Do you know what white supremacy is? The system isn't designed to help Asian Americans either. Reason why Asian Americans should be in solidarity with others facing rampant and systemic discrimination - and not try to compartmentalize grievance as it pertains to college admissions.

Lol. People have gone insane.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My DC attends Stanford. Took Calc in high school and is planning to major in the engineering school. I was surprised though to see that there are summer bridge programs for incoming frosh - I remember reading about a program that includes a math class to gain skills in foundational math to prepare them for Calculus. There is also a writing class to prepare students for a writing intensive class required of frosh and sophomores. I believe many if not most are URM. First generation / low income as well. While I’m sure there are URM with exceptional academic backgrounds and competitive with the top in their incoming class, I wouldn’t be surprised if there are more that do not.

Sigh, surely you must know there are many schools that don’t offer Calculus?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My DC attends Stanford. Took Calc in high school and is planning to major in the engineering school. I was surprised though to see that there are summer bridge programs for incoming frosh - I remember reading about a program that includes a math class to gain skills in foundational math to prepare them for Calculus. There is also a writing class to prepare students for a writing intensive class required of frosh and sophomores. I believe many if not most are URM. First generation / low income as well. While I’m sure there are URM with exceptional academic backgrounds and competitive with the top in their incoming class, I wouldn’t be surprised if there are more that do not.

This likely relates more to lack of offerings/preparedness opportunities at those students ' schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP - I am the mother of an Asian American kid. She is smart, hard working and throws herself into her EC’s. She is doing incredibly well at school. Both she and I support affirmative action. We both understand why from a perspective of providing chances for black and brown (although not brown like her) kids to see themselves in these fields requires changing the makeup of the workforce being trained. That is all well and good. But it tone deaf of you to not appreciate that your (equally smart and talented) daughter has an advantage over mine and to complain about ignorant people’s diminishing of your daughter’s accomplishments. From a societal level, I support you. From a mom dealing with college apps for her brilliant kid, I would rather be in your place.

Do you have that same feeling about job applications? Internship selections? Pay? Loan applications? Would you rather be in her daughters shoes in any of those scenarios? How about when facing a jury of your peers? Oh I see, it’s only when it comes to college admissions and you have skin in the game. Tone deaf indeed.

DP. What makes you think an Asian woman is not discriminated against when it comes to jobs, internships and pay? Most Asians try to lead lives so they are not on the other side of a jury, ever.. so there's that. Maybe others should try that too. You are the one that seems to be tone deaf.

+ 1 million

Data perhaps? https://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2018/asian-women-and-men-earned-more-than-their-white-black-and-hispanic-counterparts-in-2017.

cutoff the link https://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2018/asian-women-and-men-earned-more-than-their-white-black-and-hispanic-counterparts-in-2017.htm

DP.. that data doesn't mean what you think it means.

They make more because they are more educated. Asian Americans are the most educated group in this country.

It doesn't mean they don't face discrimination in the workplace. You think the white good ol' boys network who use their legacy and family connections are eager to promote Asian American women to executive level positions? Ever heard of the bamboo ceiling? Please.

Perhaps the data would look differently if more of certain groups prioritized education.

I swear, some people need a basic course in data analysis.

I’m confused are URMs “taking” your daughter’s spot because they don’t prioritize education? And I asked if you were willing to trade spots with URMs because of pay, the data shows what it shows, by your logic white men are more educated than any other group because they’re paid more? Your bamboo struggle is real but not the struggle of other URMs?

I think you are mixing me up (the person who wrote about her daughter) with the poster above. I have never ever claimed anyone was “taking” my daughter’s spot at anything. No spot is owed to her anywhere. And there is no way of knowing what about her application led to it being rejected (if she is in fact rejected). Statistics would suggest that if there was a “competition” for a specific spot (not at all how it works), she most likely didn’t “lose out” to a URM simply because there are more non-URMs in the accepted pool.

All I said is that the OP whose kid has a slight advantage over mine should appreciate why it can be hard on me as a parent to watch unfold. Try putting yourself in my shoes. Even if you believe that overall it is the best way to get to a better future for all of us.

As to the question of whether I would want to trade places with the OP in other parts of my daughter’s life. In some cases, yes.

And as to the point about white males having the highest education based on the PP’s logic. That is where you lose me. It’s simple stats to break out different group effects. And I pay you the compliment of believing you know that and are just trying to score a cheap point.

Name them.

First job out of school. Companies are trying to increase their diversity and a person with the OP’s daughter’s profile - talented and a diversity asset - would be a great find. I also know that later in their careers, unless the world changes significantly, both of these girls would have a harder time than a peer getting into a leadership role.