URMs Feeling Pressure to Prove Themselves

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is what people such as the Most Honorable Justice Thomas has had to face among racists. And get this. There was no affirmative action when the Most Honorable Justice Thomas applied to college.

The cost of affirmative action.

He’s a moron so not a good example for any perspective.

I dislike his judicial philosophy and he may not be as smart as Kagan or Scalia, but he is in not a "moron". That's patently wrong and unfair.

[Anonymous]

Every kid has their own struggles, except possibly some rich white straight males and even they probably do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When requirements are lower for certain groups (whether race, legacy, gender, etc) than for others, and where there are far more qualified candidates than available slots, it would seem simply correct to state that the people in those groups have an easier time being admitted and that there is not a level playing field. That doesn’t at all mean that they are not qualified and won’t do a terrific job, or won’t make the best and a terrific use of the opportunity. But to simultaneously state your legacy status, race, or gender on an application, knowing that it is to your benefit, and then to express frustration that others recognize this basic fact, seems disingenuous.

I personally am quite glad that there is affirmative action. I think it is good for our society and the right choice. I also know that, on average, my kids will need to score multiple hundreds of points higher than their wealthy URM and legacy classmates at the top of DC private. Is that fair or equitable on the small scale? I think not. Does it make sense to me on the wider scale? To me, yes. But that doesn’t mean that it is not social engineering and that some applicants are held to higher standards. I don’t think that it is inaccurate or offensive to point that out. It’s simply the truth of the policy choice that has been made. But when my daughter is around her primarily URM friends, and they kid her that she and two other girls (Indian descent) in their group should go study, because they actually have to do well on their ACTs, that’s feels true to her. And the kids all know and seem to accept it. Do any of the parents actually think the kids don’t see the different admissions standard applied to certain groups (race, legacy, in certain contexts gender)? They’ve been friends and in school together for years. They are friends, date each other, are in study groups together, etc. does anyone actually think they don’t see that lower grades/scores/activities are required for legacies and URMs, and for goodness sakes that their Asian friends are expected to walk on water to have the same admissions. Could anyone actually say otherwise, regardless of whether you think this is a good policy choice?

I think its becoming increasingly more rare for legacies to have different admissions standards. I think its much more common for legacies to get the coin flip when essentially equal candidates are presented, but I don't think legacies who don't otherwise measure up get in very often relative to the general population.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s hard. My husband and I are URM and people have always questioned the schools we went to, ivy and top 20. It almost feels like you have to work even harder to prove that you achieved anything on merit. As much assume affirmative action, we were both top of our respective high school class and he was top of his college class (phi beta kappa) before going to ivy law school with multiple ECs and national awards etc. Yet, people always assume that we only got there bc of affirmative action. Now, even in biglaw, it still doesn’t end. Other partners and associates can graduate from random place whereas every URM has to be from a better law school to be at the same firm. It never ends.

Bolded is the same for legacy admits, recruited athletes, regardless of whether they had stats etc. Welcome to the club.

I don't think these experiences are comparable. Once one has graduated, how would anyone know if the person was an athlete or legacy (assuming their name isn't Roosevelt, Obama, Harriman, etc.)? If one is a URM, I would assume the issue would extend far beyond university because people can see that you present as Black or your last name is "Latino" or whatever. I am a white lady who supports AA in college admissions and in hiring. But I imagine that one of the unintended consequences of AA is that snarky assumption that AA played a role in *everyone's* achievements if they are a URM. One shouldn't have to be a brilliant mind like Condoleezza Rice or Vernon Jordan to be assumed to be worthy of one's position in competitive environments.

If you have a quirky last name, and I Google your first and last name, your dad’s tech VP bio comes up. I search your dad’s name and it just so happens he went to the same college you attend! Then, I Google his full name, and it comes up pics of you and him at a “gala.” Legacy.

Rinse, repeat.

[Anonymous]

OP - I am the mother of an Asian American kid. She is smart, hard working and throws herself into her EC’s. She is doing incredibly well at school. Both she and I support affirmative action. We both understand why from a perspective of providing chances for black and brown (although not brown like her) kids to see themselves in these fields requires changing the makeup of the workforce being trained. That is all well and good. But it tone deaf of you to not appreciate that your (equally smart and talented) daughter has an advantage over mine and to complain about ignorant people’s diminishing of your daughter’s accomplishments. From a societal level, I support you. From a mom dealing with college apps for her brilliant kid, I would rather be in your place.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP - I am the mother of an Asian American kid. She is smart, hard working and throws herself into her EC’s. She is doing incredibly well at school. Both she and I support affirmative action. We both understand why from a perspective of providing chances for black and brown (although not brown like her) kids to see themselves in these fields requires changing the makeup of the workforce being trained. That is all well and good. But it tone deaf of you to not appreciate that your (equally smart and talented) daughter has an advantage over mine and to complain about ignorant people’s diminishing of your daughter’s accomplishments. From a societal level, I support you. From a mom dealing with college apps for her brilliant kid, I would rather be in your place.

Do you have that same feeling about job applications? Internship selections? Pay? Loan applications? Would you rather be in her daughters shoes in any of those scenarios? How about when facing a jury of your peers? Oh I see, it’s only when it comes to college admissions and you have skin in the game. Tone deaf indeed.

[Anonymous]

Affirmative Action is used as a pejorative term (mostly) by whites against minorities - without really understanding why AA was established in the first place.

When AA is banned sometime this year, you'd think that the faux stigma created by non minorities will go away. Nope. Another dismissive label will be used to undercut URM academic achievement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP - I am the mother of an Asian American kid. She is smart, hard working and throws herself into her EC’s. She is doing incredibly well at school. Both she and I support affirmative action. We both understand why from a perspective of providing chances for black and brown (although not brown like her) kids to see themselves in these fields requires changing the makeup of the workforce being trained. That is all well and good. But it tone deaf of you to not appreciate that your (equally smart and talented) daughter has an advantage over mine and to complain about ignorant people’s diminishing of your daughter’s accomplishments. From a societal level, I support you. From a mom dealing with college apps for her brilliant kid, I would rather be in your place.

Do you have that same feeling about job applications? Internship selections? Pay? Loan applications? Would you rather be in her daughters shoes in any of those scenarios? How about when facing a jury of your peers? Oh I see, it’s only when it comes to college admissions and you have skin in the game. Tone deaf indeed.

Not when she becomes of shrapnel of DEI.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP - I am the mother of an Asian American kid. She is smart, hard working and throws herself into her EC’s. She is doing incredibly well at school. Both she and I support affirmative action. We both understand why from a perspective of providing chances for black and brown (although not brown like her) kids to see themselves in these fields requires changing the makeup of the workforce being trained. That is all well and good. But it tone deaf of you to not appreciate that your (equally smart and talented) daughter has an advantage over mine and to complain about ignorant people’s diminishing of your daughter’s accomplishments. From a societal level, I support you. From a mom dealing with college apps for her brilliant kid, I would rather be in your place.

Do you have that same feeling about job applications? Internship selections? Pay? Loan applications? Would you rather be in her daughters shoes in any of those scenarios? How about when facing a jury of your peers? Oh I see, it’s only when it comes to college admissions and you have skin in the game. Tone deaf indeed.

DP. What makes you think an Asian woman is not discriminated against when it comes to jobs, internships and pay? Most Asians try to lead lives so they are not on the other side of a jury, ever.. so there's that. Maybe others should try that too. You are the one that seems to be tone deaf.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP - I am the mother of an Asian American kid. She is smart, hard working and throws herself into her EC’s. She is doing incredibly well at school. Both she and I support affirmative action. We both understand why from a perspective of providing chances for black and brown (although not brown like her) kids to see themselves in these fields requires changing the makeup of the workforce being trained. That is all well and good. But it tone deaf of you to not appreciate that your (equally smart and talented) daughter has an advantage over mine and to complain about ignorant people’s diminishing of your daughter’s accomplishments. From a societal level, I support you. From a mom dealing with college apps for her brilliant kid, I would rather be in your place.

Do you have that same feeling about job applications? Internship selections? Pay? Loan applications? Would you rather be in her daughters shoes in any of those scenarios? How about when facing a jury of your peers? Oh I see, it’s only when it comes to college admissions and you have skin in the game. Tone deaf indeed.

+1000

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP - I am the mother of an Asian American kid. She is smart, hard working and throws herself into her EC’s. She is doing incredibly well at school. Both she and I support affirmative action. We both understand why from a perspective of providing chances for black and brown (although not brown like her) kids to see themselves in these fields requires changing the makeup of the workforce being trained. That is all well and good. But it tone deaf of you to not appreciate that your (equally smart and talented) daughter has an advantage over mine and to complain about ignorant people’s diminishing of your daughter’s accomplishments. From a societal level, I support you. From a mom dealing with college apps for her brilliant kid, I would rather be in your place.

Do you have that same feeling about job applications? Internship selections? Pay? Loan applications? Would you rather be in her daughters shoes in any of those scenarios? How about when facing a jury of your peers? Oh I see, it’s only when it comes to college admissions and you have skin in the game. Tone deaf indeed.

DP. What makes you think an Asian woman is not discriminated against when it comes to jobs, internships and pay? Most Asians try to lead lives so they are not on the other side of a jury, ever.. so there's that. Maybe others should try that too. You are the one that seems to be tone deaf.

+ 1 million

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid is a URM from a middle class family in Fairfax County. A language other than English is often spoken in our house. Both parents are grads of US universities. My kid has high stats, has been admitted to some sought after universities. I feel they are constantly having to prove themselves in front of their non-URM friends. In addition, I often get the “Your kid will have an advantage in college admissions” comments. It irks me to no end! My kid worked very hard for those grades. Non URM kids from their grade were admitted to comprable schools with similar-possibly lower scores.

They are still working hard in their classes (as they should), while some of her classmates are enjoying some senioritis. If you are a parent to a high performing URM, do you notice this as well? It just makes me sad how they still feel the pressure to show they deserve to attend a prestigious university.

I am so sorry that you and your child are experiencing this. I totally understand and feel your pain. It's so misfortunate, but high stats URMs will encounter more scrutiny and bigotry.

I was the high stats URM student years ago. Now I am the parent of high stats URM students. I think my children are under more pressure than I was at their age. It breaks my heart to bare witness to the level of intensity, insanity, and scrutiny that my children are encountering. My oldest will probably graduate second in his class at a school that is predominately white and Asian. Let's just say, I can write a book about high stats URMs and the pressure to prove themselves. Some of the things that people primarily white parents have said to me are so awful and smacks of bigotry.

An educated URM is feared in this country because we do not adhere to the narrative or stereotypical box that is forced upon us. Some people can't wrap their brains around our children being anything but less than and inferior to them. Being intellectual in black or brown skin is a threat to the masses in America. The powers that be will do everything to try to knock your child down. Tell your children to be and stay strong in the storm of pressure.

I wish you and your children the best of luck!

I presume that since affirmative action places so much stress and pressure and scrutiny that kids from certain communities are encountering, then it should no longer be. Right?

It puts intense pressure and stress on Asian kids who have to do ten times more to prove their worth too.

Seems like affirmative action is doing no kid any favors and seriously harming the mental health of black, brown AND Asian kids.

+1 Breaks my heart to see my Asian American kid have to work harder and be measured higher than other groups simply because of their skin color.

(see? tone deaf)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP - I am the mother of an Asian American kid. She is smart, hard working and throws herself into her EC’s. She is doing incredibly well at school. Both she and I support affirmative action. We both understand why from a perspective of providing chances for black and brown (although not brown like her) kids to see themselves in these fields requires changing the makeup of the workforce being trained. That is all well and good. But it tone deaf of you to not appreciate that your (equally smart and talented) daughter has an advantage over mine and to complain about ignorant people’s diminishing of your daughter’s accomplishments. From a societal level, I support you. From a mom dealing with college apps for her brilliant kid, I would rather be in your place.

Do you have that same feeling about job applications? Internship selections? Pay? Loan applications? Would you rather be in her daughters shoes in any of those scenarios? How about when facing a jury of your peers? Oh I see, it’s only when it comes to college admissions and you have skin in the game. Tone deaf indeed.

DP. What makes you think an Asian woman is not discriminated against when it comes to jobs, internships and pay? Most Asians try to lead lives so they are not on the other side of a jury, ever.. so there's that. Maybe others should try that too. You are the one that seems to be tone deaf.

+ 1 million

Data perhaps? https://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2018/asian-women-and-men-earned-more-than-their-white-black-and-hispanic-counterparts-in-2017.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP - I am the mother of an Asian American kid. She is smart, hard working and throws herself into her EC’s. She is doing incredibly well at school. Both she and I support affirmative action. We both understand why from a perspective of providing chances for black and brown (although not brown like her) kids to see themselves in these fields requires changing the makeup of the workforce being trained. That is all well and good. But it tone deaf of you to not appreciate that your (equally smart and talented) daughter has an advantage over mine and to complain about ignorant people’s diminishing of your daughter’s accomplishments. From a societal level, I support you. From a mom dealing with college apps for her brilliant kid, I would rather be in your place.

Do you have that same feeling about job applications? Internship selections? Pay? Loan applications? Would you rather be in her daughters shoes in any of those scenarios? How about when facing a jury of your peers? Oh I see, it’s only when it comes to college admissions and you have skin in the game. Tone deaf indeed.

DP. What makes you think an Asian woman is not discriminated against when it comes to jobs, internships and pay? Most Asians try to lead lives so they are not on the other side of a jury, ever.. so there's that. Maybe others should try that too. You are the one that seems to be tone deaf.

+ 1 million

Data perhaps? https://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2018/asian-women-and-men-earned-more-than-their-white-black-and-hispanic-counterparts-in-2017.

cutoff the link https://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2018/asian-women-and-men-earned-more-than-their-white-black-and-hispanic-counterparts-in-2017.htm

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP - I am the mother of an Asian American kid. She is smart, hard working and throws herself into her EC’s. She is doing incredibly well at school. Both she and I support affirmative action. We both understand why from a perspective of providing chances for black and brown (although not brown like her) kids to see themselves in these fields requires changing the makeup of the workforce being trained. That is all well and good. But it tone deaf of you to not appreciate that your (equally smart and talented) daughter has an advantage over mine and to complain about ignorant people’s diminishing of your daughter’s accomplishments. From a societal level, I support you. From a mom dealing with college apps for her brilliant kid, I would rather be in your place.

Do you have that same feeling about job applications? Internship selections? Pay? Loan applications? Would you rather be in her daughters shoes in any of those scenarios? How about when facing a jury of your peers? Oh I see, it’s only when it comes to college admissions and you have skin in the game. Tone deaf indeed.

Maybe not my daughter. But my son? Looks like a regular brown kid. He is not likely to be treated much differently than many others if he gets into a run in with police. He is Indian American.

Do you really think Asian Americans are given preferences in pay? Maybe true. Hasn’t seemed true in my career but maybe it’s a case of not knowing what I don’t know.

Internships and jobs? My kid will hopefully be competitor but do you really think she will be more competitive than a highly qualified URM from a top school? At our work place, we are faking over ourselves to find these candidates (as we should be).