Husband doesn't believe his behavior is abusive - won't seek help.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I don't have any opinions on whether your DH is emotionally abusive or not. But I am not clear what you were trying to do by showing him articles online to "prove" that he is abusive. Were you trying to shame him into better behavior? That's unlikely to work.
I can tell that you have contempt for your DH, which is a clear sign the marriage is over and you no longer love him.

It was to try to help him understand that what he does is a form of abuse. He doesn't understand why when he says mean or inappropriate comments that it upsets the kids. He says he's not responsible for managing their feelings and emotions.

I thought that if he saw the evidence and facts, he'd be open to change and going to therapy. Either solo or couples therapy. He's not, though.

I love him but I'm no longer in love with him as I used to be.

I think it was fine to show him the articles and see if he would come around and have a normal response, “hey I read that, thought about it and will work to not say dramatic out downs like that.”

The e fact is he had one of the opposite reactions, one of gaslighting, arguing, denial, no consideration and got belligerent quickly.

That is all telling. But bad news, he’s got some bad issues, disorders and behaviors. They prob won’t change, even with therapy. He’d have to really do the work, and most men with diagnoses and advice don’t do the work.

Lay low and plan your exit. Talk with an individual therapist who can define and pinpoint your husbands underlying issues so you, your lawyer and your kids can develop healthy coping methods to deal with him now and in the future.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The key thing here is lack of empathy. All the posters justifying this behavior—when you say something and your child is frightened or brought to tears, do you walk away feeling justified? Or do you apologize and try to fix the communication? Because it’s not about the windows or the dinner. It’s about the pattern here:

Something happens that he doesn’t like
He tries to shame and blame his family
The kids get really upset
He leaves OP to comfort them and sees no problem with consistently being the cause of their bad feelings

I have gotten angry and said stuff that upset my spouse and kids too, but I stay and try to apologize and clarify and make it right with them. Because hurting them was an accident. He doesn’t do any of that because he isn’t sorry. HURTING THEM WAS THE POINT.

And that is what makes it abuse.

This. His responses are terrible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:H can be incredibly selfish and childish. He makes baseless threats in front of our kids that upset them.

Here's latest: H doesn't get home from work until 6:30 so he misses all of DD's practices. His office closed at 3 yesterday so maintenance could do some work on their floor. He got home around 4:30 and DD was so excited that he'd get to go to her practice. She was talking to him about practice and he said he had to work from home and couldn't go. She was, of course, sad and disappointed. All she did was ask "are you sure you can't come?" and that set him off. He said this exactly to her "well, I suppose I could come" with a GD pause to give her hope and then continued "but then that would mean I wouldn't get my work done. And when adults don't get their work done, they get fired. And if I get fired, we'll become homeless. Do you want to be homeless?" Like, WTF?! DD then got very worried about H getting his work done so we wouldn't become homeless.

I think it was in February when we had a string of really nice days, I had the windows open to get fresh air. H, who runs cold, started slamming them closed pretty hard. Not hard enough to break them but harder than normal when shutting windows. I gave me a WTF are you doing look and he started rambling about how if we weren't going to respect his wishes of being warm, he'd look for his own place to live. DS was present in the room and got upset that we were going to get a divorce and dad was moving out. I made H sit and help me reassure DS that H wasn't moving out. DS calmed down but then later that evening when we went out to dinner, we drove by a bus shelter and H made an offhand comment about how that bus shelter would be a great living space for him and probably warmer than the house with all the windows open. DS got upset again and then DD got upset when she saw how upset her big brother was. H then said he wasn't going into a restaurant with 2 kids who were crying, so he headed home. I started making food for everyone and H refused to eat any because that's not what he was craving. He said he'd just starve instead... and again, in front of the kids. I was able to stop them from getting upset by quickly saying haha daddy's kidding. He'll eat later.

He also gives the silent treatment to me if he feels wronged or doesn't get his way. He'll still speak to the kids but will ignore me. I'm sure they notice but they've never said anything about it.

I'm sick of this pattern and behavior. I showed him some articles and videos online to show him that type of behavior was abusive. He doesn't think so and told me I was invalidating his feelings by saying that.

I feel like I can't talk to anyone in real life about this for fear of judgement. It's time to get out, isn't it? Kids are 10 and 7.

Divorce is better than dead weight. I'm sorry OP. Stories like this make me happy I've never tied myself to a man with kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think this is abusive. It's just totally unnecessary and not good parenting.

He sounds like an immature ass and a terrible dad, but I wouldn't call these examples abusive.

I also wouldn't stay in a relationship like this. Behavior doesn't have to be abuse to be unacceptable.

A lot of people don’t understand what emotional abuse is. It can be hard to define. But maybe you should read about it and try to understand it before deciding that OP’s examples aren’t abusive which you obviously don’t know what you’re talking about.

I run cold. If DH opened all the windows on a cold day and I went around shutting them and then he called me abusive for it, I'd laugh myself silly. I have to tell my DD(3) multiple times a day that I can't do things with her because I have to work, and it bums her out, but it's also true. If she were older I would make the connection between my working and us having a house - that's not abusive it's reality.

The point is the worst examples OP can come up with (shutting windows, not leaving work early for a sport event) just aren't that big of a deal. It's not clear whether her DH is trying to joke or trying to frighten his kids, and the kids' reactions seem over the top, and that OTT-ness seems to be actively encouraged by OP.

Like I said: I wouldn't be in a relationship like this. But the way you guys sling "abuse" around OP's DH could come here with the same facts and tell a story about how his spouse is ignoring his temperature requests and hyping up the kids to guilt him about having to work at a job, and if he gender-flipped the post you'd tell him he was being abused and gaslighted too.

Are you really this dense? It’s not about closing the windows or not going to the practice. It’s what he SAID. That’s what emotional abuse is.

Borderline personality disorder. Look it up. The OP's DH plays a good victim but is so crazy dramatic. I'm a woman who runs cold too but man, I don't go around making stupid threats.

Oh, pulease people. Can't you see that OP is a narc? Her description of her kids reaction and how she swoops in to save them is the tipoff. Case in point:

"DD then got very worried about H getting his work done so we wouldn't become homeless...
I was able to stop them from getting upset by quickly saying haha daddy's kidding. He'll eat later."

Lol

Ding ding ding this person above got it right. He has a personality disorder and therapy will not likely help him.

The things this POS are doing and saying are abusive and this is just one little post. Imagine all the other shit he does not in this little post.

It's king of amazing how people will sit and say his behavior is not abusive when it is horrible. Get this little girl outta there so she does not grow up and think it's okay to have someone talk to her like that.

A personality disorder?? Something tells me he's sick of his wife's shit and he's checked out. He's irritable, not mental.

Wow. It's amazing what disgusting treatment people will take and defend. You people need some more self respect. It's ok to walk when someone acts this bad.

[Anonymous]

This is actually pretty classic. Middle age is full of pressure that triggers all kinds of past emotional insecurities from own unresolved traumas and abuse from our parents and the cycle begins again. Women are generally better at spotting it but/c society just enables the male, head of household perspective and doesn’t value emotional education or labor.

OP though has to just focus on herself and determine what is acceptable for her going forward and how to clearly communicate and boundary set. There is not an absolute right or wrong path forward, but it does require effort and hard emotional work no matter if there’s an eventual divorce or not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I don't have any opinions on whether your DH is emotionally abusive or not. But I am not clear what you were trying to do by showing him articles online to "prove" that he is abusive. Were you trying to shame him into better behavior? That's unlikely to work.
I can tell that you have contempt for your DH, which is a clear sign the marriage is over and you no longer love him.

It was to try to help him understand that what he does is a form of abuse. He doesn't understand why when he says mean or inappropriate comments that it upsets the kids. He says he's not responsible for managing their feelings and emotions.

I thought that if he saw the evidence and facts, he'd be open to change and going to therapy. Either solo or couples therapy. He's not, though.

I love him but I'm no longer in love with him as I used to be.

I think it was fine to show him the articles and see if he would come around and have a normal response, “hey I read that, thought about it and will work to not say dramatic out downs like that.”

The e fact is he had one of the opposite reactions, one of gaslighting, arguing, denial, no consideration and got belligerent quickly.

That is all telling. But bad news, he’s got some bad issues, disorders and behaviors. They prob won’t change, even with therapy. He’d have to really do the work, and most men with diagnoses and advice don’t do the work.

Lay low and plan your exit. Talk with an individual therapist who can define and pinpoint your husbands underlying issues so you, your lawyer and your kids can develop healthy coping methods to deal with him now and in the future.

Lol, if he was convinced by that he would be highly unusual. Most (not all) people get defensive when accused.
OP, I would not try to diagnose your husband. Start calling marriage counselors, get on wait-lists if you need to, and if the day comes and he won't go, then go to the counselor on your own.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How old are your kids? I can’t tell if he’s truly all at fault here for being a jerk or if their reactions are completely over the top about comments he thinks are funny and/or innocuous.

Also, do you work? You’re acting like your husband purposely misses your DD’s practices or something. There’s just so much resentment here clearly that again, it’s hard to tell if this is unbiased or not.

I think the wife here is manipulating here too and is not helping the husband. The husband might be stressed out at work and yes, the job has to be done- he is right, that when people get fired, then they can become homeless. I don't see anything wrong with this explanation to the kids.

[Anonymous]

Do you work OP? If not, find a job asap so you can get out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Is taking a 90 minute break while working from home in order to attend your kid’s practice one time really likely to result in the family becoming homeless? The appropriate response is something like, “I wish I could go to your practice. That would be a lot more fun than what I’m doing, but I have work that has to be done this afternoon. Even though I’m at home, this is still part of the work day. I have to get my work done because that is how we get the money to pay for everything we need. After dinner you can show me what you worked on at practice today, okay?”

Sounds like his initial response was along these lines.

And then he got upset, turned to hypebole, and asked a 7 year old if she wanted their family to be homeless. Someone needs to be the adult in this situation.

[Anonymous]

he's gaslighting and manipulating his kids. not okay and probably too late for him to change. Divorce with him will be a nightmare though. OP should work with a therapist who understands this behavior and can help her and kids navigate it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Are you the cabbage/IBS/it takes weeks to recover from the intense pain of being chilled poster? Where did you get “circulation issues” from? You don’t seem to be able to differentiate OP’s posts from your fever dreams. Get well soon.

Are you the poster that makes bigoted comments about writing skills while unable to use "its" or "it's"? Are you the poster whose highest cognition is "Word Salad". How about the one poster who only reaction is eye-rolling "Aren't you pleasant. "? How about the pathological one that calls every well-cited post "fake BS" but disappears the second one asks her to put money on it. How about the bitter one who belittles any and all sincere suggestions and explanations of non knee-jerk anti-male viewpoints? I think it's the six of us, and perhaps the five of you are bored or bitter divorcees.

[Anonymous]

NP, and this sounds a lot like my situation. It's emotional abuse and the guy's totally immature. Honestly, if he moves out, it will be beneficial to your mental health. Do you work ? Please get your ducks in a row.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Wait how are a 10 and 7 year old tweens??? 7 year olds are in 1st/2nd grade, 10 year olds are in 4th/5th. I really don’t think tween starts til about age 11. Anyway. Their kids are young. OP is not “indulging” them in catastrophizing here. She’s validating their normal emotional reactions to being manipulated and shamed (also known as emotional abuse) by their father. She’s being supportive toward them when they rightfully feel undermined and shamed by their other parent.

DP. Her kids get upset because he has a craving and skips the family meal. No, she needs to not blame her husband and explain to her kids older adults sometimes get irritable bowel, cravings, smell aversions, blood sugar issues, etc. Kids need to learn if they go to a party and one person uses the restroom instead of eating, not to make a scene. Yes, grade school 7 ( and cusp of tween 10y.o.) is old enough to learn this.

PP, its clear English is not your first language, so I assume your reading comprehension and writing fluency are about the same. Which is to say, go back and reread the OP's post. You are missing many facts.

She is INSANE. Don’t bother trying to understand it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why did someone bring up cabbage?

Because she’s a lunatic who has gotten a strange bowels-obsessed fanclub on the food section of this board.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:H can be incredibly selfish and childish. He makes baseless threats in front of our kids that upset them.

Here's latest: H doesn't get home from work until 6:30 so he misses all of DD's practices. His office closed at 3 yesterday so maintenance could do some work on their floor. He got home around 4:30 and DD was so excited that he'd get to go to her practice. She was talking to him about practice and he said he had to work from home and couldn't go. She was, of course, sad and disappointed. All she did was ask "are you sure you can't come?" and that set him off. He said this exactly to her "well, I suppose I could come" with a GD pause to give her hope and then continued "but then that would mean I wouldn't get my work done. And when adults don't get their work done, they get fired. And if I get fired, we'll become homeless. Do you want to be homeless?" Like, WTF?! DD then got very worried about H getting his work done so we wouldn't become homeless.

I think it was in February when we had a string of really nice days, I had the windows open to get fresh air. H, who runs cold, started slamming them closed pretty hard. Not hard enough to break them but harder than normal when shutting windows. I gave me a WTF are you doing look and he started rambling about how if we weren't going to respect his wishes of being warm, he'd look for his own place to live. DS was present in the room and got upset that we were going to get a divorce and dad was moving out. I made H sit and help me reassure DS that H wasn't moving out. DS calmed down but then later that evening when we went out to dinner, we drove by a bus shelter and H made an offhand comment about how that bus shelter would be a great living space for him and probably warmer than the house with all the windows open. DS got upset again and then DD got upset when she saw how upset her big brother was. H then said he wasn't going into a restaurant with 2 kids who were crying, so he headed home. I started making food for everyone and H refused to eat any because that's not what he was craving. He said he'd just starve instead... and again, in front of the kids. I was able to stop them from getting upset by quickly saying haha daddy's kidding. He'll eat later.

He also gives the silent treatment to me if he feels wronged or doesn't get his way. He'll still speak to the kids but will ignore me. I'm sure they notice but they've never said anything about it.

I'm sick of this pattern and behavior. I showed him some articles and videos online to show him that type of behavior was abusive. He doesn't think so and told me I was invalidating his feelings by saying that.

I feel like I can't talk to anyone in real life about this for fear of judgement. It's time to get out, isn't it? Kids are 10 and 7.

You are the one who can help-sorry.

1)Don't ask DH to risk his livelihood during a mission critical sprint during an eval. Have him give his boss two weeks notice to take a vacation day to attend his daughter's practice. Long term:since youngest is older than three, get a career higher paying than DH, so he can relax and spend time with kids. Set up evening practices/recitals/games so he can attend. Teach daughter not to pester with "Are you sure you can't" after polite refusal.

2)Cold causes people severely painful cramps and muscle spasms that can last weeks without bruising massage. Prep a room with a space heater and put him there. Ask him if you can circulate the rest of the house by putting a box fan in the window and turning off the heat, just from 2-4pm. Long term, give him a heads up and send him to the gym sauna or get and electric blanket as well. Explain to kids adult sometimes do an intermittent fast and the kindness that he is willing to move for his issue even though he is paying for the housing for you three.

3)People get irritable bowel and also overfull. If he is strongly craving cabbage and is getting weak, he doesn't want to overfill on bread to the point he'll vomit or diarrhea if he then eats the cabbage. Weakness and vomiting is putting him between a rock and hard place. Ask him if you can bring water or electrolytes. Also ask him if there is anything you can bring him.

Try this and see if he is better. Sorry you are going through this but he isn't abusive.

I can’t get over the depth of your insanity. Nothing you wrote is responsive to anything OP wrote:

- there was no Cold War movie type dialogue about OP’s husband being in the middle of a “mission critical sprint” what the actual F. Try living in reality, not a page of Clancy.
- if DH doesn’t have Reynauds and/or isn’t on the North Face, we don’t need to assume he’s going to get cold-related massage-resistant (??????que???????) “bruising” so, yeah.
- Cabbage Lady or one of her acolytes: discussing cabbage and hypothetical diarrhea because DH didn’t want to go to dinner with kids HE upset is…something you’ve written but not something that flows logically out of what OP wrote. Let’s take the focus to a broader point: no one has ever strung together raging diarrhea and a non-consumed restaurant meal quite like you. What the actual hell part 300.

This thread is depressing despite Ms. Cabbage Diarrhea’s descent into online psychosis. OP, your DH is an unmanageable dick and I hope you start working with an attorney and a counselor who helps single parents finagle coparenting with awful former partners. Good luck.