Husband doesn't believe his behavior is abusive - won't seek help.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I won't debate whether the behavior qualifies as abusive. But I will question what we are supposed to take away from that. Seems to me that there is a threshold requirement, or volume requirement for that label to carry the weight many give it.

I am certain that dozens of times in my 15 year marriage, I have made comments that would meet the definition of manipulative or meant to create shame or whatever. So has my spouse. Heat of the moment, after a really bad day, poorly delivered "joke"...etc. But I am also confident that we have an incredibly strong marriage.

Am I am "emotional abuser"? I guess so. But I don't think it requires divorce.

OP gave two examples over several months. We would need to know much more.

Yeah, but you likely either apologized and/or tried not to do that anymore. How often do you scare your kids into tears when you are frustrated?

[Anonymous]

For anyone who is not clear on what is or is not emotional abuse, highly recommend Out of the Fog by Dana Morningstar. It very simply and clearly describes what is abusive vs what is healthy, and provides many anecdotes and examples.

BTW to the poster who suggested that the husband had “politely declined” to go to the DD’s sports practice, it doesn’t even take a book or medical degree to see that a man telling his seven year old daughter, in response to her age-appropriate desire to have daddy watch her at practice, would be the cause of him getting fired and the entire family becoming homeless is in fact abusive. It’s a power play over a little kid - his own daughter FFS. Just because this guy foremost is a coward doesn’t make him any less of an abuser.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The key thing here is lack of empathy. All the posters justifying this behavior—when you say something and your child is frightened or brought to tears, do you walk away feeling justified? Or do you apologize and try to fix the communication? Because it’s not about the windows or the dinner. It’s about the pattern here:

Something happens that he doesn’t like
He tries to shame and blame his family
The kids get really upset
He leaves OP to comfort them and sees no problem with consistently being the cause of their bad feelings

I have gotten angry and said stuff that upset my spouse and kids too, but I stay and try to apologize and clarify and make it right with them. Because hurting them was an accident. He doesn’t do any of that because he isn’t sorry. HURTING THEM WAS THE POINT.

And that is what makes it abuse.

Here's the answer. I would leave.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For anyone who is not clear on what is or is not emotional abuse, highly recommend Out of the Fog by Dana Morningstar. It very simply and clearly describes what is abusive vs what is healthy, and provides many anecdotes and examples.

BTW to the poster who suggested that the husband had “politely declined” to go to the DD’s sports practice, it doesn’t even take a book or medical degree to see that a man telling his seven year old daughter, in response to her age-appropriate desire to have daddy watch her at practice, would be the cause of him getting fired and the entire family becoming homeless is in fact abusive. It’s a power play over a little kid - his own daughter FFS. Just because this guy foremost is a coward doesn’t make him any less of an abuser.

Bugging someone during weekday hours, after they've been told he is setting up work-from-home is something a 7-year-old understands. I've never had a coworker get called at the office with a kid that old not understand one parent is occupied from M-F 8-5 except emergencies or leave. Explanations are better than "SHUT UP kid!" which would then venture into inappropriate. I would have sympathized with OP in that case, and had she not slipped by writing "Are you sure" while omitting his initial response.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why did someone bring up cabbage?

That is entirely unclear.

[Anonymous]

If this is abuse, the definition of abuse has been watered down too far. Your kids got upset not because of his words, but because you BOTH were fighting. Quit fighting in front of your kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For anyone who is not clear on what is or is not emotional abuse, highly recommend Out of the Fog by Dana Morningstar. It very simply and clearly describes what is abusive vs what is healthy, and provides many anecdotes and examples.

BTW to the poster who suggested that the husband had “politely declined” to go to the DD’s sports practice, it doesn’t even take a book or medical degree to see that a man telling his seven year old daughter, in response to her age-appropriate desire to have daddy watch her at practice, would be the cause of him getting fired and the entire family becoming homeless is in fact abusive. It’s a power play over a little kid - his own daughter FFS. Just because this guy foremost is a coward doesn’t make him any less of an abuser.

Bugging someone during weekday hours, after they've been told he is setting up work-from-home is something a 7-year-old understands. I've never had a coworker get called at the office with a kid that old not understand one parent is occupied from M-F 8-5 except emergencies or leave. Explanations are better than "SHUT UP kid!" which would then venture into inappropriate. I would have sympathized with OP in that case, and had she not slipped by writing "Are you sure" while omitting his initial response.

Abuser Logic 101: it’s fine to tell your loving seven year old that her yammering excitement for daddy is going to get him canned and the whole family thrown out on the street, because it provides her with an explanation. It’s a teachable moment for DD, so it’s all good.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Abuser Logic 101: it’s fine to tell your loving seven year old that her yammering excitement for daddy is going to get him canned and the whole family thrown out on the street, because it provides her with an explanation. It’s a teachable moment for DD, so it’s all good.

Maybe your husband has been provided many privileges, but my coworkers of color have been canned for having a pulse. There is even a post in the jobs forum about retaining the white males. I'm glad you have never had a father/husband/wife/breadwinner lose their job but it isn't always easy. OP didn't say what her parents' contribution to the rainy day fund was, nor did she mention a vacation/second home they could use should her husband lose her job. Read the post in this forum on contagious divorce about the executive losing his job and how it tore their family including kids apart. Yes, people moving into shelters in bad economies is REAL. OPs husband is a realist and she is a bully.

[Anonymous]

I recommend you start to keep a running log of incidents on your phone in a locked note.
It is easy to forget what happens as your brain works to protect you from the trauma.
Put the date/time and what happened.
Speaking from experience.
I left. My children did not want to go back even tho they love their father.

[Anonymous]

PP again. Husband has started to get help after realizing we left because of his behavior.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think this is abusive. It's just totally unnecessary and not good parenting.

He sounds like an immature ass and a terrible dad, but I wouldn't call these examples abusive.

I also wouldn't stay in a relationship like this. Behavior doesn't have to be abuse to be unacceptable.

A lot of people don’t understand what emotional abuse is. It can be hard to define. But maybe you should read about it and try to understand it before deciding that OP’s examples aren’t abusive which you obviously don’t know what you’re talking about.

I run cold. If DH opened all the windows on a cold day and I went around shutting them and then he called me abusive for it, I'd laugh myself silly. I have to tell my DD(3) multiple times a day that I can't do things with her because I have to work, and it bums her out, but it's also true. If she were older I would make the connection between my working and us having a house - that's not abusive it's reality.

The point is the worst examples OP can come up with (shutting windows, not leaving work early for a sport event) just aren't that big of a deal. It's not clear whether her DH is trying to joke or trying to frighten his kids, and the kids' reactions seem over the top, and that OTT-ness seems to be actively encouraged by OP.

Like I said: I wouldn't be in a relationship like this. But the way you guys sling "abuse" around OP's DH could come here with the same facts and tell a story about how his spouse is ignoring his temperature requests and hyping up the kids to guilt him about having to work at a job, and if he gender-flipped the post you'd tell him he was being abused and gaslighted too.

Are you really this dense? It’s not about closing the windows or not going to the practice. It’s what he SAID. That’s what emotional abuse is.

Borderline personality disorder. Look it up. The OP's DH plays a good victim but is so crazy dramatic. I'm a woman who runs cold too but man, I don't go around making stupid threats.

Oh, pulease people. Can't you see that OP is a narc? Her description of her kids reaction and how she swoops in to save them is the tipoff. Case in point:

"DD then got very worried about H getting his work done so we wouldn't become homeless...
I was able to stop them from getting upset by quickly saying haha daddy's kidding. He'll eat later."

Lol

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Here's the answer. I would leave.

Yes, because losing their daddy 50% until they're 18 isn't going to make them cry? They were crying at the thought of daddy moving to a warming hut for Frigid February. Calling better parenting "abuse" out of jealousy and divorcing is selfing and putting yourself first, not the family. OP is selfish because creating a warm room or notifying hubby of opening windows when she knows about his circulation issues. OP is selfish for not letting him skip her meal for his more balanced cravings. OP knows this is only a desperate attempt to be the "savior" parent while making him do the dirty work of explaining breadwinning/restaurant behavior/etc.

[Anonymous]

All the people justifying the DH's behavior are probably just like him, treating their families like crap and justifying it with their big paychecks. Don't be surprised when your children grow up bitter, resentful and pass your anxiety onto the next generation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Here's the answer. I would leave.

Yes, because losing their daddy 50% until they're 18 isn't going to make them cry? They were crying at the thought of daddy moving to a warming hut for Frigid February. Calling better parenting "abuse" out of jealousy and divorcing is selfing and putting yourself first, not the family. OP is selfish because creating a warm room or notifying hubby of opening windows when she knows about his circulation issues. OP is selfish for not letting him skip her meal for his more balanced cravings. OP knows this is only a desperate attempt to be the "savior" parent while making him do the dirty work of explaining breadwinning/restaurant behavior/etc.

Are you the cabbage/IBS/it takes weeks to recover from the intense pain of being chilled poster? Where did you get “circulation issues” from? You don’t seem to be able to differentiate OP’s posts from your fever dreams. Get well soon.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:H can be incredibly selfish and childish. He makes baseless threats in front of our kids that upset them.

Here's latest: H doesn't get home from work until 6:30 so he misses all of DD's practices. His office closed at 3 yesterday so maintenance could do some work on their floor. He got home around 4:30 and DD was so excited that he'd get to go to her practice. She was talking to him about practice and he said he had to work from home and couldn't go. She was, of course, sad and disappointed. All she did was ask "are you sure you can't come?" and that set him off. He said this exactly to her "well, I suppose I could come" with a GD pause to give her hope and then continued "but then that would mean I wouldn't get my work done. And when adults don't get their work done, they get fired. And if I get fired, we'll become homeless. Do you want to be homeless?" Like, WTF?! DD then got very worried about H getting his work done so we wouldn't become homeless.

I think it was in February when we had a string of really nice days, I had the windows open to get fresh air. H, who runs cold, started slamming them closed pretty hard. Not hard enough to break them but harder than normal when shutting windows. I gave me a WTF are you doing look and he started rambling about how if we weren't going to respect his wishes of being warm, he'd look for his own place to live. DS was present in the room and got upset that we were going to get a divorce and dad was moving out. I made H sit and help me reassure DS that H wasn't moving out. DS calmed down but then later that evening when we went out to dinner, we drove by a bus shelter and H made an offhand comment about how that bus shelter would be a great living space for him and probably warmer than the house with all the windows open. DS got upset again and then DD got upset when she saw how upset her big brother was. H then said he wasn't going into a restaurant with 2 kids who were crying, so he headed home. I started making food for everyone and H refused to eat any because that's not what he was craving. He said he'd just starve instead... and again, in front of the kids. I was able to stop them from getting upset by quickly saying haha daddy's kidding. He'll eat later.

He also gives the silent treatment to me if he feels wronged or doesn't get his way. He'll still speak to the kids but will ignore me. I'm sure they notice but they've never said anything about it.

I'm sick of this pattern and behavior. I showed him some articles and videos online to show him that type of behavior was abusive. He doesn't think so and told me I was invalidating his feelings by saying that.

I feel like I can't talk to anyone in real life about this for fear of judgement. It's time to get out, isn't it? Kids are 10 and 7.

You are the one who can help-sorry.

1)Don't ask DH to risk his livelihood during a mission critical sprint during an eval. Have him give his boss two weeks notice to take a vacation day to attend his daughter's practice. Long term:since youngest is older than three, get a career higher paying than DH, so he can relax and spend time with kids. Set up evening practices/recitals/games so he can attend. Teach daughter not to pester with "Are you sure you can't" after polite refusal.

2)Cold causes people severely painful cramps and muscle spasms that can last weeks without bruising massage. Prep a room with a space heater and put him there. Ask him if you can circulate the rest of the house by putting a box fan in the window and turning off the heat, just from 2-4pm. Long term, give him a heads up and send him to the gym sauna or get and electric blanket as well. Explain to kids adult sometimes do an intermittent fast and the kindness that he is willing to move for his issue even though he is paying for the housing for you three.

3)People get irritable bowel and also overfull. If he is strongly craving cabbage and is getting weak, he doesn't want to overfill on bread to the point he'll vomit or diarrhea if he then eats the cabbage. Weakness and vomiting is putting him between a rock and hard place. Ask him if you can bring water or electrolytes. Also ask him if there is anything you can bring him.

Try this and see if he is better. Sorry you are going through this but he isn't abusive.

This advice is so bad it's humorous.

NP here. I just assumed it was either sarcasm or possibly a form of performance art.