Husband doesn't believe his behavior is abusive - won't seek help.

[Anonymous]

Just so we're all clear -

To understand emotional abuse, we need to understand the difference between emotional abuse and normal conflict.

Conflict is a normal part of any relationship and is a healthy way for two people to express emotions, identify an issue, and have a chance to talk through whatever issue is bothering them.

Emotional abuse involves nonphysical behavior that belittles another person and can include insults, put down, verbal threats or other tactics that make the victim feel threatened, inferior, ashamed or degraded.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think this is abusive. It's just totally unnecessary and not good parenting.

+1. Also, OPs post is dripping with resentment so it’s hard to get a read on whether he’s just making bad swing-and-a-miss dad jokes or actually being sincere.

You wouldn’t resent someone who repeatedly treats you and your kids like this?

NP. I think I’d be really annoyed to be guilted into attending practice when I had work to do. I wouldn’t have said what he did, but I’ve said a million times that I have a real job that pays the real bills but that means I have to actually work.

Also i run cold and I’d be really pissed if my wife opened the windows and When it was too cold for me. I mean, when you know that, you talk about opening windows before you do it.

These are terrible examples of OP is trying to show abuse. I thing the second shows how inconsiderate she is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
PP, its clear English is not your first language, so I assume your reading comprehension and writing fluency are about the same. Which is to say, go back and reread the OP's post. You are missing many facts.

Bigot much?

Nope- observant. Doesn't write well likely means doesn't read well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think this is abusive. It's just totally unnecessary and not good parenting.

+1. Also, OPs post is dripping with resentment so it’s hard to get a read on whether he’s just making bad swing-and-a-miss dad jokes or actually being sincere.

You wouldn’t resent someone who repeatedly treats you and your kids like this?

NP. I think I’d be really annoyed to be guilted into attending practice when I had work to do. I wouldn’t have said what he did, but I’ve said a million times that I have a real job that pays the real bills but that means I have to actually work.

Also i run cold and I’d be really pissed if my wife opened the windows and When it was too cold for me. I mean, when you know that, you talk about opening windows before you do it.

These are terrible examples of OP is trying to show abuse. I thing the second shows how inconsiderate she is.

Sure, but that's not how you (an assumed healthy person) would respond. You'd Say, "Lara, I'm sorry I can't make it today" and then separately, you'd tell your wife that you resent being put on the spot like that. You wouldn't punish your child by connecting their request for your attention to you getting fired. And you would discuss the temperature with your wife in a normal way as well.

The point isn't the examples- there are a million points of conflict that any couple has over time -- but its how he responded to it that is the problem.

[Anonymous]

If DD has a birthday party and pesters the hell out of a kid she likes with ""are you sure you can't come?" over and over, OP isn't being a good mother. Explaining it is to keep a roof over her head and not answering "Because I said so" is good fathering. Also, the kids need to learn separate living conditions for medical purposes isn't divorce. Most people have had a parent/sibling take a hot shower to prevent a chill. OP and her kids need to be tolerant of people having IBS or having muscle pain.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
PP, its clear English is not your first language, so I assume your reading comprehension and writing fluency are about the same. Which is to say, go back and reread the OP's post. You are missing many facts.

Bigot much?

Nope- observant. Doesn't write well likely means doesn't read well.

In that case you should have used "it's" not "its". I now forgive you for your ignorance. -PP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:H can be incredibly selfish and childish. He makes baseless threats in front of our kids that upset them.

Here's latest: H doesn't get home from work until 6:30 so he misses all of DD's practices. His office closed at 3 yesterday so maintenance could do some work on their floor. He got home around 4:30 and DD was so excited that he'd get to go to her practice. She was talking to him about practice and he said he had to work from home and couldn't go. She was, of course, sad and disappointed. All she did was ask "are you sure you can't come?" and that set him off. He said this exactly to her "well, I suppose I could come" with a GD pause to give her hope and then continued "but then that would mean I wouldn't get my work done. And when adults don't get their work done, they get fired. And if I get fired, we'll become homeless. Do you want to be homeless?" Like, WTF?! DD then got very worried about H getting his work done so we wouldn't become homeless.

I think it was in February when we had a string of really nice days, I had the windows open to get fresh air. H, who runs cold, started slamming them closed pretty hard. Not hard enough to break them but harder than normal when shutting windows. I gave me a WTF are you doing look and he started rambling about how if we weren't going to respect his wishes of being warm, he'd look for his own place to live. DS was present in the room and got upset that we were going to get a divorce and dad was moving out. I made H sit and help me reassure DS that H wasn't moving out. DS calmed down but then later that evening when we went out to dinner, we drove by a bus shelter and H made an offhand comment about how that bus shelter would be a great living space for him and probably warmer than the house with all the windows open. DS got upset again and then DD got upset when she saw how upset her big brother was. H then said he wasn't going into a restaurant with 2 kids who were crying, so he headed home. I started making food for everyone and H refused to eat any because that's not what he was craving. He said he'd just starve instead... and again, in front of the kids. I was able to stop them from getting upset by quickly saying haha daddy's kidding. He'll eat later.

He also gives the silent treatment to me if he feels wronged or doesn't get his way. He'll still speak to the kids but will ignore me. I'm sure they notice but they've never said anything about it.

I'm sick of this pattern and behavior. I showed him some articles and videos online to show him that type of behavior was abusive. He doesn't think so and told me I was invalidating his feelings by saying that.

I feel like I can't talk to anyone in real life about this for fear of judgement. It's time to get out, isn't it? Kids are 10 and 7.

You are the one who can help-sorry.

1)Don't ask DH to risk his livelihood during a mission critical sprint during an eval. Have him give his boss two weeks notice to take a vacation day to attend his daughter's practice. Long term:since youngest is older than three, get a career higher paying than DH, so he can relax and spend time with kids. Set up evening practices/recitals/games so he can attend. Teach daughter not to pester with "Are you sure you can't" after polite refusal.

2)Cold causes people severely painful cramps and muscle spasms that can last weeks without bruising massage. Prep a room with a space heater and put him there. Ask him if you can circulate the rest of the house by putting a box fan in the window and turning off the heat, just from 2-4pm. Long term, give him a heads up and send him to the gym sauna or get and electric blanket as well. Explain to kids adult sometimes do an intermittent fast and the kindness that he is willing to move for his issue even though he is paying for the housing for you three.

3)People get irritable bowel and also overfull. If he is strongly craving cabbage and is getting weak, he doesn't want to overfill on bread to the point he'll vomit or diarrhea if he then eats the cabbage. Weakness and vomiting is putting him between a rock and hard place. Ask him if you can bring water or electrolytes. Also ask him if there is anything you can bring him.

Try this and see if he is better. Sorry you are going through this but he isn't abusive.

OMG are you serious? This is how you manage a child with certain disabilities, not a spouse. And you are completely missing the point - this issue isn't him attending the recital or closing the windows -- the issue is HOW responded to them, threatening homelessness, creating terrified children, being shamed for totally normal requests.

This is very much abuse.

DP - the above scenarios being laid are so oddly specific I am wondering if the husband or his cranky parent found this thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:H can be incredibly selfish and childish. He makes baseless threats in front of our kids that upset them.

Here's latest: H doesn't get home from work until 6:30 so he misses all of DD's practices. His office closed at 3 yesterday so maintenance could do some work on their floor. He got home around 4:30 and DD was so excited that he'd get to go to her practice. She was talking to him about practice and he said he had to work from home and couldn't go. She was, of course, sad and disappointed. All she did was ask "are you sure you can't come?" and that set him off. He said this exactly to her "well, I suppose I could come" with a GD pause to give her hope and then continued "but then that would mean I wouldn't get my work done. And when adults don't get their work done, they get fired. And if I get fired, we'll become homeless. Do you want to be homeless?" Like, WTF?! DD then got very worried about H getting his work done so we wouldn't become homeless.

I think it was in February when we had a string of really nice days, I had the windows open to get fresh air. H, who runs cold, started slamming them closed pretty hard. Not hard enough to break them but harder than normal when shutting windows. I gave me a WTF are you doing look and he started rambling about how if we weren't going to respect his wishes of being warm, he'd look for his own place to live. DS was present in the room and got upset that we were going to get a divorce and dad was moving out. I made H sit and help me reassure DS that H wasn't moving out. DS calmed down but then later that evening when we went out to dinner, we drove by a bus shelter and H made an offhand comment about how that bus shelter would be a great living space for him and probably warmer than the house with all the windows open. DS got upset again and then DD got upset when she saw how upset her big brother was. H then said he wasn't going into a restaurant with 2 kids who were crying, so he headed home. I started making food for everyone and H refused to eat any because that's not what he was craving. He said he'd just starve instead... and again, in front of the kids. I was able to stop them from getting upset by quickly saying haha daddy's kidding. He'll eat later.

He also gives the silent treatment to me if he feels wronged or doesn't get his way. He'll still speak to the kids but will ignore me. I'm sure they notice but they've never said anything about it.

I'm sick of this pattern and behavior. I showed him some articles and videos online to show him that type of behavior was abusive. He doesn't think so and told me I was invalidating his feelings by saying that.

I feel like I can't talk to anyone in real life about this for fear of judgement. It's time to get out, isn't it? Kids are 10 and 7.

You are the one who can help-sorry.

1)Don't ask DH to risk his livelihood during a mission critical sprint during an eval. Have him give his boss two weeks notice to take a vacation day to attend his daughter's practice. Long term:since youngest is older than three, get a career higher paying than DH, so he can relax and spend time with kids. Set up evening practices/recitals/games so he can attend. Teach daughter not to pester with "Are you sure you can't" after polite refusal.

2)Cold causes people severely painful cramps and muscle spasms that can last weeks without bruising massage. Prep a room with a space heater and put him there. Ask him if you can circulate the rest of the house by putting a box fan in the window and turning off the heat, just from 2-4pm. Long term, give him a heads up and send him to the gym sauna or get and electric blanket as well. Explain to kids adult sometimes do an intermittent fast and the kindness that he is willing to move for his issue even though he is paying for the housing for you three.

3)People get irritable bowel and also overfull. If he is strongly craving cabbage and is getting weak, he doesn't want to overfill on bread to the point he'll vomit or diarrhea if he then eats the cabbage. Weakness and vomiting is putting him between a rock and hard place. Ask him if you can bring water or electrolytes. Also ask him if there is anything you can bring him.

Try this and see if he is better. Sorry you are going through this but he isn't abusive.

This advice is so bad it's humorous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:H can be incredibly selfish and childish. He makes baseless threats in front of our kids that upset them.

Here's latest: H doesn't get home from work until 6:30 so he misses all of DD's practices. His office closed at 3 yesterday so maintenance could do some work on their floor. He got home around 4:30 and DD was so excited that he'd get to go to her practice. She was talking to him about practice and he said he had to work from home and couldn't go. She was, of course, sad and disappointed. All she did was ask "are you sure you can't come?" and that set him off. He said this exactly to her "well, I suppose I could come" with a GD pause to give her hope and then continued "but then that would mean I wouldn't get my work done. And when adults don't get their work done, they get fired. And if I get fired, we'll become homeless. Do you want to be homeless?" Like, WTF?! DD then got very worried about H getting his work done so we wouldn't become homeless.

I think it was in February when we had a string of really nice days, I had the windows open to get fresh air. H, who runs cold, started slamming them closed pretty hard. Not hard enough to break them but harder than normal when shutting windows. I gave me a WTF are you doing look and he started rambling about how if we weren't going to respect his wishes of being warm, he'd look for his own place to live. DS was present in the room and got upset that we were going to get a divorce and dad was moving out. I made H sit and help me reassure DS that H wasn't moving out. DS calmed down but then later that evening when we went out to dinner, we drove by a bus shelter and H made an offhand comment about how that bus shelter would be a great living space for him and probably warmer than the house with all the windows open. DS got upset again and then DD got upset when she saw how upset her big brother was. H then said he wasn't going into a restaurant with 2 kids who were crying, so he headed home. I started making food for everyone and H refused to eat any because that's not what he was craving. He said he'd just starve instead... and again, in front of the kids. I was able to stop them from getting upset by quickly saying haha daddy's kidding. He'll eat later.

He also gives the silent treatment to me if he feels wronged or doesn't get his way. He'll still speak to the kids but will ignore me. I'm sure they notice but they've never said anything about it.

I'm sick of this pattern and behavior. I showed him some articles and videos online to show him that type of behavior was abusive. He doesn't think so and told me I was invalidating his feelings by saying that.

I feel like I can't talk to anyone in real life about this for fear of judgement. It's time to get out, isn't it? Kids are 10 and 7.

OP, I am so sorry you are going through this. You deserve respect and care. Your kids deserve respect and care. Your DH is gaslighting and emotionally abusing you and your kids. You need sole custody otherwise he's going to be alone with the kids.

Disagree. I would call his behavior dysfunctional, immature... but not *abusive*. That's dramatic and potentially manipulative. She'd harm her kids more than he has ever done by tearing the family apart. And honestly, it's ALSO gaslighting to call someone's behavior "abusive" when it isn't clearly so, and not listen to their explanations of why they disagree.

The actual definition of emotional abuse is “using emotions to criticize, embarrass, shame, blame, or otherwise manipulate a person.” That sounds like exactly what OP’s husband is doing. Trying to make his family members feel shame or blame or to manipulate them in all the examples OP gave.

I don't see abuse, maybe just not realizing that kids are taking everything he is saying literally, when in reality he is just mad and saying things in the heat of the moment that he doesn't actually mean. It sounds like he has a good work ethic, and I don't see why he has to attend his DD's practice. Many parents can't attend things because of work, and his stance is entirely reasonable. What might not be reasonable is the pressure that OP puts on her husband to skip out on work to watch a sports practice. And I can't believe OP is complaining about one time months ago when one person is hot and one is cold and opening closing windows, good grief, just let it go. You don't have to open every window in the house when you want fresh air, and OP can also run it by her husband first. Brrr... I would not want the windows open in Feb either. Really, people are allowed to get mad. I think OP is overly sensitive and controlling, and could stand some individual therapy, or a hobby.

You must be an abusive spouse who is in denial because this is just wrong.

[Anonymous]

Answer this
Do YOU treat your kids that way ?
Do you allow strangers to treat your kids that way ?
Do grand parents treat your kids that way ?
Yet your husband does.
Seriously, sit down and weigh your options. Don't argue with him.

[Anonymous]

The key thing here is lack of empathy. All the posters justifying this behavior—when you say something and your child is frightened or brought to tears, do you walk away feeling justified? Or do you apologize and try to fix the communication? Because it’s not about the windows or the dinner. It’s about the pattern here:

Something happens that he doesn’t like
He tries to shame and blame his family
The kids get really upset
He leaves OP to comfort them and sees no problem with consistently being the cause of their bad feelings

I have gotten angry and said stuff that upset my spouse and kids too, but I stay and try to apologize and clarify and make it right with them. Because hurting them was an accident. He doesn’t do any of that because he isn’t sorry. HURTING THEM WAS THE POINT.

And that is what makes it abuse.

[Anonymous]

I won't debate whether the behavior qualifies as abusive. But I will question what we are supposed to take away from that. Seems to me that there is a threshold requirement, or volume requirement for that label to carry the weight many give it.

I am certain that dozens of times in my 15 year marriage, I have made comments that would meet the definition of manipulative or meant to create shame or whatever. So has my spouse. Heat of the moment, after a really bad day, poorly delivered "joke"...etc. But I am also confident that we have an incredibly strong marriage.

Am I am "emotional abuser"? I guess so. But I don't think it requires divorce.

OP gave two examples over several months. We would need to know much more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't think this is abusive. It's just totally unnecessary and not good parenting.

Wrong. This is textbook emotional abuse.

[Anonymous]

Why did someone bring up cabbage?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
OP gave two examples over several months. We would need to know much more.

One was after continued pestering after polite refusal. Second was upset over someone else not eating, which children shouldn't fret about in the first place.

OP, is there more to the story or are you looking for a blind husband-bashing caravan? If not, take responsibility for how you could have communicated better and taught your kids what is appropriate.