What is the desired outcome?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Enjoy the process, people. And encourage your kids to do the same.

College admissions is unpredictable - especially for schools that are highly selective (rejective).

Targets are called “targets” and not “safeties” for reason. Same for reach schools. An 18% acceptance rate seems promising compared to a 7% acceptance rate … but it’s not actually high. There’s a TON of rejection and disappointment baked in to the process.

It’s called “assuming the risk” of disappointment - and it’s part of life, for kids and adults, alike. This is a CHOICE. And to me, experiencing it first-hand is part of the “point” of the process.

For a teen to learn that they can always control their part (how high to aim, how much time and effort to invest along the way) but not the outcome is a HUGE learning opportunity. Sometimes all the effort pays off (achieving their goal) sometimes it doesn’t. Sometimes, in retrospect, we realize it wasn’t worth the effort after all - either because it didn’t pay off or because it didn’t actually matter that much to us in the end (the “good enough” outcome turned out to be plenty good.)

When it comes to college admissions, we need to be clear with our kids - hard work and sacrifice do not guarantee admission to highly selective (rejective) schools. If all that leads to the type of achievement colleges value, yes, it increases the odds! But there’s just no certainty to be had. And certainly no entitlement - no matter how hard a kid works and how much they’ve achieved. The odds are not in favor of acceptance.

To me, this is the point: Understanding a situation, being intentional about which risks to take, experiencing and surviving disappointment, reflecting and learning from it, and finally, moving forward with an open mind and positive outlook.

Embrace the process and do what you can to learn and grow along the way.

You are right but...

Many educated parents are already aware of this. Unfortunately knowing it is one thing but explaining why is another. There is unfairness. It discourages people from even trying and leaves them feeling bitter. If you have a talented or really smart child, it’s difficult to accept that someone else can gain an advantage simply because of money or cheating. That kind of system sends the wrong message. It’s especially frustrating for families who follow the rules, yet see others succeed through backdoor opportunities.

I'm the PP. It's actually not hard at all for us - or for our "talented" and "really smart child" - to explain and accept this without bitterness.

For context, DC was deferred from their first-choice T10 school, is in at a couple of targets, and is waiting to hear from 6 more reaches. They have all the stats you could possibly have (highest rigor, perfect GPA, 1580 SAT) AND at this point in the process, they are 100% mentally prepared to go to one of their two targets. Why? Because those are what the odds say.

As for your post, I'm struck by how much you've chosen to focus on "unfairness," "cheating," "someone else gain[ing] advantage," and "backdoor opportunities." No wonder you're left "feeling bitter"!!

Seriously, I don't get it. If my highly-qualified DC doesn't get in to their reach schools, it won't be because the world is unfair or becuase everyone else is cheating. It's would be because there's a ridiculous amount of talent out there and a very limited number of spots. Again, the numbers are what they are.

Thankfully, DC has a similarly glass-half-full mindset. They work hard, enjoy their friends and their ECs, and don't spend time worrying about how everyone else is living their lives. This is one of many reasons I'm confident they'll flourish wherever they land, both in college and beyond.

My DC and I share your sentiments. It really is ridiculous how much whining occurs in this forum.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem is kids sacrifice so much that had they known that they could sacrifice much less and enjoy their high school experience and have a similar or comparable college outcome. I think they would do it differently.

Grinding away to get into a top school and then to end up at your Flagship can feel disappointing when you would’ve gotten into the Flagship with 50% of the effort.

Depending on which state you’re in just getting into the state flagship or other state schools several spots lower may require this same degree of grinding, with still lottery like chances of getting in (California in particular with UC Berkeley, UCLA, even UC Irvine and San Diego)

It is not the same gunning for UVA as it is gunning for Northwestern, an ivy, UChicago, JHU, etc.

Gunning for UCLA and UCB are, especially from certain areas.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Our priority has been 8 hours sleep, free time for friends/family, only do what you enjoy. But no slacking on homework or in school as in not preparing for tests. But otherwise FU to college admissions.

We had this on repeat at home "T20 is a lottery. People spend optimizing their whole 4 years of HS for getting into T20. Since we are not doing that, your chances are even less than most. Plenty of good colleges to choose from outside of T50."

Made sure we visited safest of the safety college, even though it does not track demonstrated interest.

Ended up at HYPSM.

Fiction

[Anonymous]

A happy life, an engaging education, good friends, health, and a means of supporting oneself in the future that brings joy and does soem good in the world.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Enjoy the process, people. And encourage your kids to do the same.

College admissions is unpredictable - especially for schools that are highly selective (rejective).

Targets are called “targets” and not “safeties” for reason. Same for reach schools. An 18% acceptance rate seems promising compared to a 7% acceptance rate … but it’s not actually high. There’s a TON of rejection and disappointment baked in to the process.

It’s called “assuming the risk” of disappointment - and it’s part of life, for kids and adults, alike. This is a CHOICE. And to me, experiencing it first-hand is part of the “point” of the process.

For a teen to learn that they can always control their part (how high to aim, how much time and effort to invest along the way) but not the outcome is a HUGE learning opportunity. Sometimes all the effort pays off (achieving their goal) sometimes it doesn’t. Sometimes, in retrospect, we realize it wasn’t worth the effort after all - either because it didn’t pay off or because it didn’t actually matter that much to us in the end (the “good enough” outcome turned out to be plenty good.)

When it comes to college admissions, we need to be clear with our kids - hard work and sacrifice do not guarantee admission to highly selective (rejective) schools. If all that leads to the type of achievement colleges value, yes, it increases the odds! But there’s just no certainty to be had. And certainly no entitlement - no matter how hard a kid works and how much they’ve achieved. The odds are not in favor of acceptance.

To me, this is the point: Understanding a situation, being intentional about which risks to take, experiencing and surviving disappointment, reflecting and learning from it, and finally, moving forward with an open mind and positive outlook.

Embrace the process and do what you can to learn and grow along the way.

You are right but...

Many educated parents are already aware of this. Unfortunately knowing it is one thing but explaining why is another. There is unfairness. It discourages people from even trying and leaves them feeling bitter. If you have a talented or really smart child, it’s difficult to accept that someone else can gain an advantage simply because of money or cheating. That kind of system sends the wrong message. It’s especially frustrating for families who follow the rules, yet see others succeed through backdoor opportunities.

I'm the PP. It's actually not hard at all for us - or for our "talented" and "really smart child" - to explain and accept this without bitterness.

For context, DC was deferred from their first-choice T10 school, is in at a couple of targets, and is waiting to hear from 6 more reaches. They have all the stats you could possibly have (highest rigor, perfect GPA, 1580 SAT) AND at this point in the process, they are 100% mentally prepared to go to one of their two targets. Why? Because those are what the odds say.

As for your post, I'm struck by how much you've chosen to focus on "unfairness," "cheating," "someone else gain[ing] advantage," and "backdoor opportunities." No wonder you're left "feeling bitter"!!

Seriously, I don't get it. If my highly-qualified DC doesn't get in to their reach schools, it won't be because the world is unfair or becuase everyone else is cheating. It's would be because there's a ridiculous amount of talent out there and a very limited number of spots. Again, the numbers are what they are.

Thankfully, DC has a similarly glass-half-full mindset. They work hard, enjoy their friends and their ECs, and don't spend time worrying about how everyone else is living their lives. This is one of many reasons I'm confident they'll flourish wherever they land, both in college and beyond.

I understand that—maybe social media plays a role.

Have you seen the movie “Try Harder”? One line from it really stuck with me:
“I feel like I worked so hard, only to end up at a school I could’ve gotten into without trying nearly as much.”

Of course. It happens ALL THE TIME in life.

We work incredibly hard and make tons of sacrifices to go after something we want, but then it doesn’t work out the way we hoped. Like all the late nights, weekends, missed vacations etc. - only to not get the promotion or raise … or to not make partner etc. Could have worked far less for the same result.

There are no crystal balls in life. And no guarantees that doing the right things gets you the hoped for results.

Sadly, I have more than a few friends who’ve gotten got cancer in their late 40s and 50s - even though they ate healthy, exercised regularly, never smoked, rarely drank, and had no genetic markers.

It’s normal to feel disappointed. It’s not normal to blame others, which is what the PP seemed to be doing with all their cheating/back door bitterness stuff.

+100. A lot of the posts on this forum feel like people are just learning the world is unfair. And instead of using this as a teaching lesson for their child they put the blame on everyone else without being objective or realistic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our priority has been 8 hours sleep, free time for friends/family, only do what you enjoy. But no slacking on homework or in school as in not preparing for tests. But otherwise FU to college admissions.

We had this on repeat at home "T20 is a lottery. People spend optimizing their whole 4 years of HS for getting into T20. Since we are not doing that, your chances are even less than most. Plenty of good colleges to choose from outside of T50."

Made sure we visited safest of the safety college, even though it does not track demonstrated interest.

Ended up at HYPSM.

Fiction

Whatever it takes for you to cope.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our priority has been 8 hours sleep, free time for friends/family, only do what you enjoy. But no slacking on homework or in school as in not preparing for tests. But otherwise FU to college admissions.

We had this on repeat at home "T20 is a lottery. People spend optimizing their whole 4 years of HS for getting into T20. Since we are not doing that, your chances are even less than most. Plenty of good colleges to choose from outside of T50."

Made sure we visited safest of the safety college, even though it does not track demonstrated interest.

Ended up at HYPSM.

Grades alone cannot do it unless heavily hooked. Please don’t sell crap as fact.

What triggered you? LOL. You have a reading comprehension problem. Who said anything about grades alone?

Unhooked and still got into HYPSM. Doing things child likes led to many things we did not foresee.

Another trigger for you, Rice offered $200k in merit as well.

🤥

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem is kids sacrifice so much that had they known that they could sacrifice much less and enjoy their high school experience and have a similar or comparable college outcome. I think they would do it differently.

Grinding away to get into a top school and then to end up at your Flagship can feel disappointing when you would’ve gotten into the Flagship with 50% of the effort.

This. It doesn’t mean the kid falls apart if the state flagship is where he ends up, but it is not where the kid wanted and - as said above - could have likely been achieved with much less effort over many years.

This is how my kids felt about uva even though it’s a great school. It’s not uva they didn’t want, they didn’t want that to be the result of their effort or they would have modified their effort.

Again, had they “modified their effort” they wouldn’t have gotten in.

I don’t think that’s really true. There is a different level of working commitment needed to be in the running for a top 10 school versus UVA. You can still be well academically without having to kill yourself on the research and extracurricular funds in creating worldwide impact. And still get into UVA. I say this is someone from out of state. The kids from our private who get into UVA and end up there do not have other top tier options.
Same for Michigan.

Since this is anonymous I will just say this frankly. The sub-set of kids that are very smart, popular, non-geeky, social, and sporty choose Michigan or UVA over “top tier” options due to fit. They want top academics, Greek life, parties, huge sports events in a fun college town. That just isn’t happening at most top schools these days. People say Duke or Northwestern are still like this, but that is not we are hearing from kids that currently attend.

What huge sports events is UVA known for? Like Stanford is bigger for sports (and has numerous Olympians) but I have never heard of a non-athlete choosing them for the sports scene.

Michigan and UVA are also very expensive to attend OOS. Many parents just aren’t willing to pay that much for public school, no matter how popular, social, and sporty their child may be.

[Anonymous]

My unhooked kid also got into HYPSM early without extreme grinding and sacrificing. It does happen, and calling out people here as liars is kind of ridiculous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem is kids sacrifice so much that had they known that they could sacrifice much less and enjoy their high school experience and have a similar or comparable college outcome. I think they would do it differently.

Grinding away to get into a top school and then to end up at your Flagship can feel disappointing when you would’ve gotten into the Flagship with 50% of the effort.

This. It doesn’t mean the kid falls apart if the state flagship is where he ends up, but it is not where the kid wanted and - as said above - could have likely been achieved with much less effort over many years.

This is how my kids felt about uva even though it’s a great school. It’s not uva they didn’t want, they didn’t want that to be the result of their effort or they would have modified their effort.

Again, had they “modified their effort” they wouldn’t have gotten in.

I don’t think that’s really true. There is a different level of working commitment needed to be in the running for a top 10 school versus UVA. You can still be well academically without having to kill yourself on the research and extracurricular funds in creating worldwide impact. And still get into UVA. I say this is someone from out of state. The kids from our private who get into UVA and end up there do not have other top tier options.
Same for Michigan.

Since this is anonymous I will just say this frankly. The sub-set of kids that are very smart, popular, non-geeky, social, and sporty choose Michigan or UVA over “top tier” options due to fit. They want top academics, Greek life, parties, huge sports events in a fun college town. That just isn’t happening at most top schools these days. People say Duke or Northwestern are still like this, but that is not we are hearing from kids that currently attend.

Not true at all at most area private schools.

[Anonymous]

Ivy of bust!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem is kids sacrifice so much that had they known that they could sacrifice much less and enjoy their high school experience and have a similar or comparable college outcome. I think they would do it differently.

Grinding away to get into a top school and then to end up at your Flagship can feel disappointing when you would’ve gotten into the Flagship with 50% of the effort.

This. It doesn’t mean the kid falls apart if the state flagship is where he ends up, but it is not where the kid wanted and - as said above - could have likely been achieved with much less effort over many years.

This is how my kids felt about uva even though it’s a great school. It’s not uva they didn’t want, they didn’t want that to be the result of their effort or they would have modified their effort.

Again, had they “modified their effort” they wouldn’t have gotten in.

I don’t think that’s really true. There is a different level of working commitment needed to be in the running for a top 10 school versus UVA. You can still be well academically without having to kill yourself on the research and extracurricular funds in creating worldwide impact. And still get into UVA. I say this is someone from out of state. The kids from our private who get into UVA and end up there do not have other top tier options.
Same for Michigan.

Since this is anonymous I will just say this frankly. The sub-set of kids that are very smart, popular, non-geeky, social, and sporty choose Michigan or UVA over “top tier” options due to fit. They want top academics, Greek life, parties, huge sports events in a fun college town. That just isn’t happening at most top schools these days. People say Duke or Northwestern are still like this, but that is not we are hearing from kids that currently attend.

What huge sports events is UVA known for? Like Stanford is bigger for sports (and has numerous Olympians) but I have never heard of a non-athlete choosing them for the sports scene.

Michigan and UVA are also very expensive to attend OOS. Many parents just aren’t willing to pay that much for public school, no matter how popular, social, and sporty their child may be.

Ever hear of basketball?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem is kids sacrifice so much that had they known that they could sacrifice much less and enjoy their high school experience and have a similar or comparable college outcome. I think they would do it differently.

Grinding away to get into a top school and then to end up at your Flagship can feel disappointing when you would’ve gotten into the Flagship with 50% of the effort.

This. It doesn’t mean the kid falls apart if the state flagship is where he ends up, but it is not where the kid wanted and - as said above - could have likely been achieved with much less effort over many years.

This is how my kids felt about uva even though it’s a great school. It’s not uva they didn’t want, they didn’t want that to be the result of their effort or they would have modified their effort.

Again, had they “modified their effort” they wouldn’t have gotten in.

I don’t think that’s really true. There is a different level of working commitment needed to be in the running for a top 10 school versus UVA. You can still be well academically without having to kill yourself on the research and extracurricular funds in creating worldwide impact. And still get into UVA. I say this is someone from out of state. The kids from our private who get into UVA and end up there do not have other top tier options.
Same for Michigan.

Since this is anonymous I will just say this frankly. The sub-set of kids that are very smart, popular, non-geeky, social, and sporty choose Michigan or UVA over “top tier” options due to fit. They want top academics, Greek life, parties, huge sports events in a fun college town. That just isn’t happening at most top schools these days. People say Duke or Northwestern are still like this, but that is not we are hearing from kids that currently attend.

What huge sports events is UVA known for? Like Stanford is bigger for sports (and has numerous Olympians) but I have never heard of a non-athlete choosing them for the sports scene.

Michigan and UVA are also very expensive to attend OOS. Many parents just aren’t willing to pay that much for public school, no matter how popular, social, and sporty their child may be.

Uva swimming, particularly women’s?

[Anonymous]

Hate to generalize but I believe there are two divergent mindsets. For older parents it is the thought the kid will follow in their footsteps but the elite school they attended had a 40% admit rate when they got in and it is now a single digit admit rate.

For younger parents it is participation trophy syndrome. Kid always did well, has impeccable stats and ECs they must get in. But fail to realize that in today’s grade inflated world with rebaselined standardized tests everyone is the same kid. So there are just so many “equally” qualified kids competing for a limited number of slots.

As a result a great deal of angst and frustration when kids have to settle for their highly ranked state flagship or even worse a top 75 school.

[Anonymous]

The desired outcome, in this economy, is for my kids to be independent, to not live in my basement!