Why is DD being excluded?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She’s not smart or dumb, good or bad looking, she’s not autistic or special needs, and she has normal interests. Why is she excluded from everything? Not bullied, but no one talks to her and they avoid her like the plague. She comes home crying every day.

Wow. Did you just say that?

I don’t think she meant it as a put down, she was trying to paint a picture of the situation and is desperate to help her kid. As someone who is an Aspie, she is right to clarify and I wasn’t offended. My advice would be different for an NT kid versus a ND one.

That said, OP, my kids are going through this and it is heartbreaking. Deliberate exclusion, ignoring, passive aggression are all forms of bullying. You don’t have to be friends with someone to be kind to them.

This is actually unfortunately very common. I would tell her to focus on finding one friend. Just one. It only takes one good safe friend to turn things around. Try to help her identify that person or people then come up with ideas to help her initiate a friendship. She’s not the only kid at her school feeling this way. Encourage her to be confident and assertive because kids are sharks and smell blood in the water. A perceived lack of confidence makes her a target. Practice this confidence at home as corny as it sounds. Focus on posture, tone of voice, eye contact and genuine smiles. It is a life skill. Be there for her and listen. If she has your support, it will help get her through. You are not alone and neither is she.

[Anonymous]

NP. Why not switch schools? If your 17 year old has been at their tiny private since middle school and hasn't made any friends, it's clearly not a good fit. Why pay for your kids to be ostracized?

[Anonymous]

small private school

That's the whole problem,
right there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She is probably boring to other kids. Sorry if that sounds insulting. She is probably not actually a boring person, she just isn't exciting and maybe takes a lot of energy from others to draw out her personality, which is common with shy, more introverted people. As she gains confidence and self esteem (which unfortunately may wait until college as usually social success drives more success) she will be more appealing to others. Also as teenagers mature into their 20s they find other qualities more appealing and often the class clown/funny/shallow friendship entertaining type start to grate a little bit because people realize that some of those people are putting on a show and they don't even know who they are really.

At 17, she's likely at the end of her junior or senior year? and just like in 5th grade and 8th grade, most kids don't make new friends in those years, as kids start looking forward to moving on to new schools. They also tend to be pretty tired of their peers by now and feel like they know everyone there is to know and aren't branching out (but at a really large school, this could still happen...if its a small school forget it, they've already categorized her and dismissed her as a potential friend after a few years).

I would suggest she get a summer job where she's working with young adults. Often teenagers like this that struggle with peers will connect with people in their late tees/early 20s.

Yeah, this is good advice.

Agree. I missed the age at first. But at 17, high school is done. Tell her to totally forget about these kids. Focus on shoring up her self esteem confidence and people skills for college so she gets a strong fresh start. High School and these kids will soon be a distant memory.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

small private school

That's the whole problem,
right there.

Agree. The situation for her at that school is entrenched and will not change. If possible switch to public for Senior year. She’ll find a new crew plus college admits are much better from publics. I’m trying to convince my Junior to leave private school for public for college admit purposes alone. Plus, Why pay to be miserable?

[Anonymous]

because women are awful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:because women are awful.

Your daily does of misogyny. Internalized, or otherwise.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:An age would really be helpful here.

OP here. Thanks everyone for the answers. She’s 17 but this has been happening since she was in middle school.

Oooooh. School can be hard. She will probably find her stride in college. But I think counseling would help. It can help her identify issues and couch her on how to act in social situations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe the school is full of toxic bullies like the people on this thread.

Not sure why people are being so aggressive…..

I always find it interesting how many people come on these threads and automatically blame the kid being excluded and are outright insulting and rude to the OP.

Maybe it is not so strange that so many kids are being mean and ostracizing their peers. Their parents are these aggressively nasty PPs!

It's not that people are "blaming the kid being excluded."

It's more that we say, there is no need to blame ANYONE because nothing wrong was actually done.

Kids are not required to be friends with everyone. They are expected to be respectful and kind, but there is no obligation to be everyone's friend.

But when posters say something to that effect, its interpreted as "defending a bully" or "blaming the victim." And that's wrong. What we're trying to say is that there is no victim here at all.

Come on. No one is saying kids have to be friends with everyone. The whole point is that people come on here with cases where people are NOT being respectful and kind. Middle school in particular is full of purposeful exclusion. Kids can be quite manipulative and mean at that age. So you have a "victim" who is hurt and the kids doing the hurting are doing it on purpose. And then PPs DO come on here and intimate that if a kid is being excluded, it's their own fault.

Okay. But OP even says there is no bullying. It's just that DD is not being invited to things.

So what should these other kids do? You admit that kids don't have to be friends with everyone. So what should they do? Literally? Invite her to their hangout. Well, that sounds like we're forcing them to be friends, which is exactly what we just said they don't have to do.

As long as these other kids aren't actively bullying OP's DD, they are doing nothing wrong.

The comments are not directed at giving instructions for the kids here. For the bazillionth time, the comments are directed at the adults (I assume) who are responding to this thread saying mean things about kids who are excluded. And then people like you come back with "what are the kids supposed to do?" That is not what we are talking about here. But since you ask, you know the answer is be kind. That doesn't mean you have to hang out with everyone. Just teach your kids to be polite and kind in their interactions. And maybe don't say mean things about the less socially skilled kids as though they DESERVE to be left out. It adults on this thread are writing these unkind things, I guarantee they are passing these attitudes down to their kids. And the cycle continues.

Fair enough. I think both of us are probably responding to the other people on the thread, not necessarily each other. As you point, you're responding to the people that may be blaming the girl excluded.

I'm responding to the people that assert "exclusion is bullying" when it is absolutely not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe the school is full of toxic bullies like the people on this thread.

Not sure why people are being so aggressive…..

I always find it interesting how many people come on these threads and automatically blame the kid being excluded and are outright insulting and rude to the OP.

Maybe it is not so strange that so many kids are being mean and ostracizing their peers. Their parents are these aggressively nasty PPs!

It's not that people are "blaming the kid being excluded."

It's more that we say, there is no need to blame ANYONE because nothing wrong was actually done.

Kids are not required to be friends with everyone. They are expected to be respectful and kind, but there is no obligation to be everyone's friend.

But when posters say something to that effect, its interpreted as "defending a bully" or "blaming the victim." And that's wrong. What we're trying to say is that there is no victim here at all.

Come on. No one is saying kids have to be friends with everyone. The whole point is that people come on here with cases where people are NOT being respectful and kind. Middle school in particular is full of purposeful exclusion. Kids can be quite manipulative and mean at that age. So you have a "victim" who is hurt and the kids doing the hurting are doing it on purpose. And then PPs DO come on here and intimate that if a kid is being excluded, it's their own fault.

Okay. But OP even says there is no bullying. It's just that DD is not being invited to things.

So what should these other kids do? You admit that kids don't have to be friends with everyone. So what should they do? Literally? Invite her to their hangout. Well, that sounds like we're forcing them to be friends, which is exactly what we just said they don't have to do.

As long as these other kids aren't actively bullying OP's DD, they are doing nothing wrong.

The comments are not directed at giving instructions for the kids here. For the bazillionth time, the comments are directed at the adults (I assume) who are responding to this thread saying mean things about kids who are excluded. And then people like you come back with "what are the kids supposed to do?" That is not what we are talking about here. But since you ask, you know the answer is be kind. That doesn't mean you have to hang out with everyone. Just teach your kids to be polite and kind in their interactions. And maybe don't say mean things about the less socially skilled kids as though they DESERVE to be left out. It adults on this thread are writing these unkind things, I guarantee they are passing these attitudes down to their kids. And the cycle continues.

Fair enough. I think both of us are probably responding to the other people on the thread, not necessarily each other. As you point, you're responding to the people that may be blaming the girl excluded.

I'm responding to the people that assert "exclusion is bullying" when it is absolutely not.

Exclusion can be bullying, but not always. There are examples in this forum every week of kids getting excluded in a hurtful way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I promise I'm not saying this in the nasty way it was originally asked, but does your DD have a therapist?

My DD with social anxiety often felt overlooked and ignored at school, although she generally had one or two close friends outside of school. She wasn't necessarily upset about it, she just kind of withdrew into herself, and went through her days without really talking to anyone. Her therapist really helped her to both pinpoint precisely where she might be struggling, and to learn to manage her emotions and her reactions to social struggles as they arose.

Most importantly, they worked out that her then-undiagnosed ADHD was making it difficult for her to interact with other kids in groups, because she couldn't follow the overlapping threads of conversations. It either caused kids to avoid including her because she always seemed a beat "off," (and she knew it), or she was too anxious to talk in case she'd missed something.

Her therapist suggested we have some testing done, and after a diagnosis, medication, and almost two years of therapy, she's like a different kid. She still sticks mainly to a core group of close friends with similar interests, but she can go to school and happily interact with classmates, and she's made friends at her extracurricular activities (where before she'd do an activity and come home without speaking to anyone beyond the essentials). She's even been selected by her peers for a leadership position in one.

If this has been an issue for your DD since middle school, and she's struggling with making friends in non-school situations as well, then it's time to get her some help. There are social skills groups that could be helpful, but a good one-on-one therapist is probably the place to start.

Even in the event that you're right, and it truly is a "them" problem and not a "her" problem, at the very least a therapist can help her work through why she's so upset about being ignored by a bunch of kids she really doesn't like that much anyway.

I’m so glad your DD is doing better. My kid was in therapy for about a year but didn’t like any of the therapists we tried, so she quit (much to my disappointment). She refuses to take anxiety/depression medication, which I think is understandable.

You are the parent. Help you kid here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:because women are awful.

Your daily does of misogyny. Internalized, or otherwise.

I mean, there is some truth to this. And how women treat each other, unfortunately.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:because women are awful.

Your daily does of misogyny. Internalized, or otherwise.

I mean, there is some truth to this. And how women treat each other, unfortunately.

+2

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe the school is full of toxic bullies like the people on this thread.

Not sure why people are being so aggressive…..

I always find it interesting how many people come on these threads and automatically blame the kid being excluded and are outright insulting and rude to the OP.

Maybe it is not so strange that so many kids are being mean and ostracizing their peers. Their parents are these aggressively nasty PPs!

OP can’t change other kids’ behavior. She can’t change the culture of the school. She can’t change the fact that this small school either doesn’t care or doesn’t want to get involved. What OP CAN change is where her child goes to school. If my child had been excluded and not connecting with peers since middle school and it was now her junior year of HS, I would absolutely change schools. There’s nothing to lose, except I suppose the fancy private school name on her diploma. However I’d like to think I would have intervened with social skills help in middle school and changed schools earlier. I would also like to believe that my own child’s mental health is more important than sucking it up and spending one last year at a school that is a poor fit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:She’s not smart or dumb, good or bad looking, she’s not autistic or special needs, and she has normal interests. Why is she excluded from everything? Not bullied, but no one talks to her and they avoid her like the plague. She comes home crying every day.

In this context, it is a complete no brainer for you to pony up the money for private school. Privates go above and beyond to make sure new students have friends. And private kids are super perceptive to invite kids into their circle when they see them excluded. Unless there are things you’re not telling us, I guarantee private would change your kid’s life for the better — immediately.