Anonymous wrote:Muslima, you are saying over and over that is not Islam, those behaviors are not being done in the name of Islam.

But if large numbers of muslims over and over are saying that it is indeed mandated by Islam, that they are doing these violent acts because their religion tells them to, that women do not deserve rights because that is what Islam says, and then back it up with lassages from the Koran, then who are we to not believe what they say at face value?

At least for those large numbers of people, that IS what Islam teaches.

I don't see the large number, you're talking about. Are they Muslims who bridge those things? Yes but they are not the majority at all, not even close to it.. Also, you are confusing Muslims with Islam. There is 1.6Billion Muslims in the world. You should check the Gallup poll that they did"what do a Billion Muslims think" I attached a link to the documentary that you can watch for free in am earlier post.. None of them gave any of the responses you did. Gallup also did another poll where they only focused on Muslim Women in Muslim countries and this is what they found:
"In sharp contrast to the popular image of silent submissiveness, Gallup findings on women in countries that are predominantly Muslim or have sizable Muslim populations hardly show that they have been conditioned to accept second-class status. Majorities of women in virtually every country we surveyed say that women deserve the same legal rights as men, to vote without influence from family members, to work at any job they are qualified for, and even to serve in the highest levels of government"

Islam must be judged on its own merits and not on the behavior of Muslims. Islam is a perfect system because it was created by God, just as we were. We, however, were not created perfect. Muslims have free will and we choose our ways of life and make our own decisions; sometimes they are the correct decisions and sometimes they aren’t.

Anonymous wrote:It pisses me off no end to go somewhere on a hot summer day and see little girls in long sleeves and jeans. That's just miserable and inappropriate for the weather. It's abusive. If you have to put your kids in wrist-to-ankle clothing, you could at least put them in a thin linen or khaki or cotton outfit. It's especially awful at a theme park like Six Flags, when the family is going to be there all day.

I don't care much about what adult women do, but when I see a grown woman in the US in a full black outfit, rather than just a head scarf, I have to think that there is a bit of a "fuck you" to American culture. Her family is trying to make sure that we understand that they don't approve of our culture. It's a bit rude.

You must be a very angry person. Do send us a photo of yourself and your children so we can all try to look like you and be like you so there's no chance of the rest of us being anti-American. First children are not required to wear the hijab, second the way parents choose to dress their children has nothing to do with you. The fact that you say there is a big fuck you to american culture when a grown woman chooses to dress the way she wants shows your narrowmindness. On a side note you are a perfect example of how liberalism and secularism are just the same as the ideologies they oppose. "Liberalism" - you can be anything you want, as long as you are liberal. "Secularism" - you can believe anything you want, as long as those beliefs are secular.

Anonymous wrote:Muslima- when someone kills or almost kills and does so in the name of Allah, saying that they're not really following Islam and it has nothing to do with that religion at all is insensitive and out of touch.

Perhaps they are not practicing your interpretation, but they are practicing none the less. Just because you don't agree with it or they're actions, doesn't make that person any less Muslim than you.

Then telling a family member of the attacked under the guise of religion, that you wish them to one day embrace your religion is arrogant.

Don't put words in my mouth, I never said I wanted him to embrace Islam, way to twist words. Now, go and read again what my first answer was to that poster, and I repeat I will not carry the blame, if you can't make the difference between people who wanted to murder someone, and regular people you meet, and an entire religion, well sorry but I can't help you.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Matthew 7:15-17 wrote:Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they? So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit

Look around the world. From Somalia to Libya to Syria to Iraq to Iran to Afghanistan to Pakistan. Look from Al-Qaeda to Boko Haram to the Taliban to ISIS. These are the people of God? Where are the great inventions, the medical breakthroughs (zero Nobel Prizes for medicine??), or scientific discoveries in the last 800 years? Where are Islamic countries anywhere a model for the rest of the world?

You will know them by their fruits.

In the Name of Allah, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful

Say: "Oh, you who disbelieve!
"I do not worship that which you worship,
"Nor do you worship That Which I worship.
"Nor will I worship that which you have been worshipping,
"Neither will you worship That Which I worship.
"To you your religion and to my religion"

[Quran: 109]

The above is an earlier

Quran (2:191-193) - "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief] is worse than killing...
but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone. But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)"

Accidentally hit return to soon

The above is an earlier verse which falls under the doctrine of abrogation

Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"

Quran (8:39) - "And fight with them until there is no more fitna (disorder, unbelief) and religion should be only for Allah"

Quran (9:5) - "So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captive and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them."

Sorry, I don't think Islam is a good religion. But then again, I'm not a fan of any religion at all.

Yeh if the Quran meant that, certainly I would agree with you, so let's start since you quoted the verses that all islamophobes use and i am very familiar with them .First of all, you can just cite random verses of the Quran out of context and create the narrative you want. The first verse that you cited is :

Quran (2:191-193) - "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief] is worse than killing...
but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone. But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)"

Why didn't you cite verse 190 which is the verse that comes right before it? Let me cite the whole passage for ya :

2:190 "Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loveth not transgressors. "
2:191: And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.
2:192:But if they cease, then Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
2:193: And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah. But if they desist, then let there be no hostility except against wrong-doers.

These verses were revealed after the unbelievers broke the treaty with the Prophet peace upon him and after he took over Mecca and forgave them for what they have done and still some of them would not stop killing the Muslims, and the Muslims did not defend themselves because they had not received the order yet, then the verses were revealed . For 10 years, while in Makkah, the Muslims were prohibited to openly fight the Kuffar because the disbelievers were greater in number and the Muslims were very few. The context is if MUSLIMS GET ATTACKED then they have the right to attack back, and the context is very clear on that, the theme comes into play on verse 190, not verse 191 which non-Muslims quote alone, the non-Muslim should quote from verse 190 onwards, and once doing so one will see that this is a defensive war, not an offensive one, if people attack the Muslims then the Muslims have the right to attack back, and that is exactly what the verses are saying.
The verses even say that if the people who started the fight begin to stop and make peace than we too must also stop and make peace as well,. You should read these verses in their textual and historical context. You should read the whole verse an the few verses before and few after instead of randomly quoting verses outside if their revealed contexts.

Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"

First of, this is the correct & complete translation of the verse: "Remember thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): "I am with you: give firmness to the Believers: I will instil terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them."
Islamophobes like to always bring this up and claim that this verse proves that Islam promotes terrorism and that the Quran orders Muslims to go and chop people's heads off along with their finger tips. This shows their lack of knowledge on Islam, sadly!

To begin, this verse is referring to a SPECIFIC BATTLE, this verse is not an order on Muslims, and this verse is talking about a battle that took place. The battle it is referring to is the battle of Badr ( you can google the battle of Badr, there are clear historic documents about it). The first verse where Allah reveals that He told the angels "Give firmness to the Believers, I will instill terror in the hearts of the Unbeleivers". Muslims believe that Angels came and fought along with them during the Battle of Badr, they were hugely outnumbered by the Army they were fighting against & won the battle.

The 2nd part about "smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger tips off them: In the aftermath of the battle of Badr, the people used to recognize whomever the angels killed from those whom they killed, by the wounds over their necks, fingers and toes, because those parts had a mark as if they were branded by fire.Now off course during a battle in those days you would aim for the neck to get an immediate blow ( they didn't have guns), and off course you would also aim for their fingers, once taking out their fingers the enemy would not be able to carry his sword hence you neutralize the enemy. So there is nothing barbaric or mean about these verses, it is simply referring to a battle, and nothing barbaric was done in the battle neither these were how battles were fought back then.

Quran (8:39) - "And fight with them until there is no more fitna (disorder, unbelief) and religion should be only for Allah"

Again, this is the complete translation : "And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah altogether and everywhere; but if they cease, verily Allah doth see all that they do."

The passage calls on the Muslims to fight against oppression, and to make sure that justice prevails. Is this not a noble cause that all humans should strive for?Notice the passage says that we should fight until there is no more oppression, and then the verse ends by saying "but if they cease", obviously this refers to them ending their oppression.Thus, Muslims are commanded to fight against oppression to make sure justice stands. Notice the verse says to fight them to stop oppression and does not say "fight them to convert them to Islam". Islam places A very high importance on justice, and allows for aggressors and unjust people be punished accordingly, unless they repent before they are brought to justice. At the same time, Islam encourages people to forgive those who have wronged them whenever possible.

Quran (9:5) - "So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captive and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them."

This verse, often called "the verse of the sword", has been misquoted in a manner similar to the previous verses. First, we shall provide the verse in its context and completeness:
9:5-6 "But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful. If one amongst the Pagans ask thee for asylum, grant it to him, so that he may hear the word of Allah. and then escort him to where he can be secure. That is because they are men without knowledge."

This verse was revealed towards the end of the revelation period and relates to a limited context. Hostilities were frozen for a three-month period during which the Arabs pledged not to wage war. Prophet Muhammad was inspired to use this period to encourage the combatants to join the Muslim ranks or, if they chose, to leave the area that was under Muslims rule; however, if they were to resume hostilities, then the Muslims would fight back until victorious. One is inspired to note that even in this context of war, the verse concludes by emphasizing the divine attributes of mercy and forgiveness. To minimize hostilities, the Qur'an ordered Muslims to grant asylum to anyone, even an enemy, who sought refuge. Asylum would be granted according to the customs of chivalry; the person would be told the message of the Qur'an but not coerced into accepting that message. Thereafter, he or she would be escorted to safety regardless of his or her religion. Therefore, this verse once again refers to those pagans who would continue to fight after the period of peace. It clearly commands the Muslims to protect those who seek peace and are non-combatants. It is a specific verse with a specific ruling and can in no way be applied to general situations. The command of the verse was only to be applied in the event of a battle.

Indeed, it is truly amazing how lots of critics will ignore God's infinite mercy in their attempt to malign Islam. God has always given human beings a way out of any suffering, and has only ordained fighting as a last resort. Muslim scholars have written much commentary on these Qur'anic verses explaining the historical context in such great detail so that there may be no misconceptions but people always like to quote them out of context.


I will also explain what abrogation means, since some people might not be familiar with it. In the Qur'an there is naskh and there is also takhsees. Naskh is the abrogation of a ruling by a ruling that was revealed after it. Naskh occurs in matters of Islamic law. Takhsees on the other hand refers to specification, where one verse restricts the application of another verse, or specifies the limits not mentioned in the other verse. The conditions for naskh is that the two conflicting rulings apply to the same situation under the same circumstances, and hence there is no alternative understanding of the application of the verses.

Sorry, I don't think Islam is a good religion. But then again, I'm not a fan of any religion at all.

The Quran has been preserved and unchanged for 1400 years. There are currently millions of muslims who fully memorized the same exact qur'an down to the dots and crosses so to speak that was here 1400 years ago. People spend years studying the Quran, its historical context of every Surah that was revealed and its tafseer. If you Honestly& sincerely want to learn about teh Quran, get a Tafseer (explanation) of the Quran, it will tell you exactly when each verse was revealed, what was the context and what is the explanation of the verse, and the scholars have a consensus of this. PS: I can send you a free tafseer if you want. But, please do your research by going to the source i-e the Book itself that has been unchanged for 1400 years. Don't go on islamophobes websites and copy & paste verses they have misquoted totally ignoring their context. If you wanted to learn about Neuroscience, you would not go & ask an IT programmer to explain you how the brain works. Go to the source! Islam is a religion of mercy and justice. It calls all human beings to the worship of the One God who created us all. What many people falsely present as Islam IS opposed to the values and laws of Islam. The narrations and verses that I explained here are frequently misquoted by those who seek to malign Islam and spread hatred towards its followers. he only cure to this problem is education. Islam is not the enemy. Hatred, Intolerance and Ignorance are the enemies of humanity.

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If this form of practice is such a "joy," why aren't men asked to do it? Where's the joy for the men?

I guessed you missed the point, it is not the practice that gives joy, what gives joy is "faith" and the feeling of being close to the Creator, the scarf is just One aspect of a multitude of others...Men have a different dress code that I discussed in previous posts, both men and women are required to dress modestly. Men & Women are different, equal in front of God AND of course will have a different dress code like they do in every society. You don't see men parading around in miniskirts and high heels, do you?

Wait, is this a dress code, or is it a joyous religious practice? Either it's a big deal, or not a big deal. By saying it's a dress code so men don't need some special garb, you're trivializing it, but you're saying God is ordering this action, so is God ordering something trivial? It doesn't make sense. It certainly *seems* pretty trivial. The other pps above suggest that there is basically a rule to be "modest" and that it is a sign for respect and recognition, and that there's no big deal here. So what is going on?

Another thing that I guess I am working with is understanding why God would order an outward sign of inner spirituality. Why would God care? The standard answer is "because God said so." Yes, but why the specificity? What does this all lead to?

Pretty much anyone can tell themselves that anything that they are doing will bring them good feelings because of obedience, or faith, or what have you. Even terrorists (of any religion) say they have a feeling of peace or joy, and that is probably a result of backing up their convictions with action. Whenever people follow up their convictions with action, they feel very good! When people point out Muslim countries that have dysfunctional societies, and other people say "it's their way of practice, not the religion itself," well, that bothers me, because the form of practice should lead to faith which should lead to a functioning society. When you go to a Muslim country you see a LOT of signs of religious practice and piety and respect for religion, but the fruits of all of it are very, very poor. Basically, lots of unkindness from everyone to everyone else. So all this spiritual practice is not really leading people anywhere.

I'm glad you mentioned Muslim countries,you are assuming that every Muslim leader is following the Quran & the way of life of the Prophet saw which couldn't be further from the truth. There is a great distinction between being Islamic nations and Muslim majority nations. Most Muslim countries are ruled by dictators who do not follow anything that Islam says and are usually backed by the West, if anything Muslim countries are doomed because they have abandoned Islam long ago. Muslims in those countries are oppressed by secular & political ideologies that have nothing to do with the religion, this is the main reason why you see most often than not a clash between Muslim leaders and Muslims living under their leaderships. It is the lack of Islamic Democracy and Leadership in those countries. The Muslim world is either controlled by secular Muslims or extremely fanatic ones. What's ironic is that the Quran’s teachings are better represented in non-Muslim societies than in Islamic countries, which have failed to embrace the values of their own faith in politics, business, law and society. They use religion as an instrument of state control.We must emphasize that many countries that profess Islam and are called Islamic are unjust, corrupt, and underdeveloped and are in fact not ‘Islamic’ by any stretch of the imagination. Why do you think you hear all these Muslim groups saying they want to bring back the khilafah?

I don't know if you know this, but a muslim business professor at George Washington University created something called the Islamicity Index, which ranks all countries around the world based on how closely they adhere to basic Islamic principles, laws and rules with regards to social, economic, political and human rights. The shocking results, guys… none of the muslim countries were even ranked within the top 30 lol. The top countries in both economic achievement and social values are Ireland, Demark, Luxembourg and New Zealand. Britain also ranks in the top ten. The first Muslim-majority nation is Malaysia ranking at 33, while the only other Muslim majority country in the top 50 is Kuwait at 48. Saudi Arabia rated 91st, Qatar 111st, while the US was placed at 15.

For your question about is it a dress code. It is a dress code that we live by willingly, and it is joyous to us, just like you might be happy to put your suit on, well there is somewhere a muslim woman happy to tie that scarf on. Men have their own dress code again like I said it is in one of my previous posts. A man must always be covered in loose and unrevealing clothing from his navel to his knee. This is the absolute minimum covering required, he also can't shave his beard and can't wear silk or gold which are permitted to women.
.
For your questions of Why would God care, thats something you will have to ask Him the day you meet Him, I can't answer for him , unless of what He has revealed to us

No problem

Anonymous wrote:Muslima, thank you for your explanations.

I was given another explanation a few years ago that the reason the women are covered is because other people aren't worthy of seeing her -- only her husband is.

Is there a law or rule that says they can't uncover for identification?

You are quite welcome. No, she is actually required to uncover for identification if needed. Public interest and security of the nation are emphasized in Islam. Therefore, if the law requires uncovering for reasons, such as identification, the Muslim woman, like all other women, has to abide by the law.

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am anti-Islam because Muslim extremists tried to kill my uncle. I don't really have any better reasons than that. I understand all of the arguments, that not all practitioners of Islam are violent, that Islam had a golden age sometime in the Middle Ages, that Christians have persecuted millions, etc., etc. But I can't help but notice that so much evil in the world today revolves around Islam.

This does not mean that I am anti-Muslim. I have a lot of Muslim friends and basically keep my sentiments to myself, except for right now as I type this.

I hope that one day, you can experience the beauty of Islam so that somehow, you can see it for more than the evil actions of some. In the end, love will always be stronger than hate

Somehow this response really peeves me. My uncle was almost murdered, do you think that I am interested in experiencing anything that has to do with Islam? I've gotten to see a LOT of Islam, and color me unimpressed.

I am sorry but nor I or Islam are responsible for your uncle almost getting murdered. I hope one day you can experience the beauty of Islam, that is my wish for you~

Anonymous wrote:If this form of practice is such a "joy," why aren't men asked to do it? Where's the joy for the men?

I guessed you missed the point, it is not the scarf that gives joy, what gives joy is "faith" and the feeling of being close to the Creator, the scarf is just One aspect of a multitude of others parts of faith...Men have a different dress code that I discussed in previous posts, both men and women are required to dress modestly. Men & Women are different, equal in front of God AND of course will have a different dress code like they do in every society. You don't see men parading around in miniskirts and high heels, do you?

If you wanna learn more about how men vs women are viewed in Islam

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The question I have, at least, for Muslim women, is what is the purpose of being covered? What is the spiritual significance, what is the spiritual benefit?

There are a myriad of reasons why, but the easy, one sentence answer is, because they believe God has made it an obligation for believing women. Muslims believe that their sole purpose in life is the worship of God alone, according to His instructions, as revealed in the Holy Quran, and through the teachings of the Prophet Mohammed (pbuh). As such, wearing the hijab is an act of obedience to God and, hence, forms the primary basis for wearing it.In Islam, hijab is not demanded of women by men but is ordered upon women by the Merciful Ever-Living.

It is an outward symbol of an inward spiritual reality and aspiration.

Ok, I get that it is a religious observance, and an outward sign that you're "spiritual," but other than that, is there anything to it? Why would God request this particular action? What spiritual benefit is there to the actual action? And why aren't men given an analogous way of being spiritual? Or are they? I guess how I feel, is that this is something way too trivial for God to ask women to do unless there is a real spiritual benefit. This is my issue with a lot of tenets of Islam- there are lots of rules and obedience and obligation, and no joy to it, no "fruits" of spirituality. What is that spiritual benefit?

And you may say "hey, this shows the world that you are Muslim," but there's another side- in a Muslim country, not covering your hair shows that you are non-Muslim, and leads to a feeling of intimidation. I've experienced this myself, and I've known women who were told, outright, that they are in a Muslim country, it doesn't matter that they're Christian, a native of that country who never wore a hijab, they need to wear a hijab now. So, yeah, since you don't know any woman who has been forced to wear it, would that count as your first example?

Well if you read what I wrote, I said "I never met one who was forced to wear it, but that doesn't mean they do not exist, but that is not the norm"

Now, why would God require this? God defines and God dignifies both men and women in their distinctiveness, and not in their sameness, and in However way He Chooses. Hijab is a symbol of our worship and servitude to Allah.But, since you asked, before we have a true and complete understanding of hijab and its real meaning, one needs to take a step back and start at the beginning. Allah says in the Quran (The Words of Allah), what means:

“We created not the heavens and the earth and all that is between them for a (mere) play.”

[Al-Anbiy?', 21:16]

In this verse Allah makes clear that everything He created has a purpose. Every star in the sky, every fish in the ocean, and every leaf on a tree was made for a specific reason. So too was the human being created for a specific purpose. Allah explains this purpose clearly in the Quran. He says what means:

“And I did not create the jinn and mankind except to worship Me.”

[Adh-Dh?riyat, 51:56]

It is important to note even the construction of this statement. Allah did not just say that He created jinn and mankind to worship Him. He began with a negation. He said: "I did not create the jinn and mankind." By saying it in this way, Allah begins by clearing the board from any other purpose before He states what our one and only purpose is: to worship Him and Him alone. Now, it is in that context that one should begin to understand the subject of hijab. Hijab should properly be seen as simply another show of devotion to our Creator. Just as we pray and fast because He commanded us to do so, we view hijab in the very same light.

Just as praying and fasting sincerely for Allah's pleasure brings us closer to Him, so too does wearing hijab, if done with the same sincerity. By obeying Allah's commandments, hijab is just another way to worship our Lord. And in so doing, it brings us closer to realizing our purpose of creation. Of course, to you someone who doesn't believe in Islam, this has no spiritual benefit, nobody can clearly explain the sweetness and taste of faith and peace that comes to the heart of the person who feels them when they truly believe! I don't understand why you are saying there is no joy to it, do you think muslim women who wear the hijab are miserable when they wear it? you can't believe that there is a sense of calmness, peace and happiness that they feel when they are practicing their religion? By Allah, I wish you could feel the joy in my heart when I obey one of His commands, and feel so blessed, so close to him that I cry out of amazement!

The issue I see is that you are putting too much emphasis on the outward aspects of religion and not enough on the inward; the outward is just the reflection of the inward, of course if the inward is non-existent, you will be resentful, angry, miserable, because you dont believe in what you are doing. But for the believer, her hijab is a “statement” that she loves God more than “society’s standards of beauty and fashion.” Her submission is to something higher than those things.

I really don't know how to explain it to you, it is an act of Love towards the creator, just like you choosing to do something for your husband that you love, people might look at you and say "woow that's crazy" , but because of your love towards him, you feel great joy and pleasure in doing it and nobody can explain that feeling!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If gestational surrogate then why was he not claimed by biological parent(s)/father - he did not have Down's Syndrome, after all!

God could of used DNA from existing living humans or he could of just made an embryo from scratch(like he did with Adam and Eve) and implanted it into Mary.

I don't recall anything in the Bible about God making Adam and Eve from an embryo. Embryos are not mentioned in the bible at all, I'm almost positive. They are one of those scientific findings that people didn't know about when the bible was first written, so god did not want to confuse people with ideas they could not understand.

There's nothing about that in the bible either, but I've heard it explained that way by people trying to understand why the bible left out so much.

I didn't mean God made an embryo of Adam and Eve. I meant God made Adam and Eve from scratch. So given he can make things from scratch, he could of made an embryo from scratch as well.

If he can make things from scratch, you'd think he would have made them without error, but no - humans have all sorts of awful diseases and conditions.

God is a flawed creator

That was His Choice, He Does what He Wills......

Anonymous wrote:This is pp, and I'll just come out and say it instead of waiting for the answer. The reason your post puts me off is that we're not "obsessed" with you. Not in the least. Get over yourself. We're concerned for the rights and safety of that "one woman" I mentioned. What could happen to a woman that chooses to dress herself (as *she* likes) in a miniskirt, a bikini, a tank top, and go about her business in public in Saudi Arabia? We're not "obsessed" with you. We're worried about her.

Anonymous wrote:My question is, in the many places in the world where women generally cover hair etc., what if one woman does NOT want to cover? In all of these places, is that okay? Can this woman go about her daily business dressed as she pleases completely at ease?

Muslima wrote:I posted this, didn't realize i wasn't logged in...

Anonymous wrote:OMG, Get a Hobby, go volunteer, feed a hungry kid. Muslim women don't wake up everyday thinking about you, why are you so obsessed with us? You want to make a change? With epedemic levels of domestic violence, rape and sexual harassment of women, with the sexualisation of young girls and women and the lack of equality in the workplace , challenge how women are treated in the West, you can make a difference! Rise above the assumptions surrounding the Muslim woman’s dress and speak to any Muslim woman on the streets of DC, London, Paris, New York, Cairo, Karachi, Ankara, Tunis, and even Kabul.

This falsely engineered narrative of what Muslim women think of their dress should not be tolerated. Not only is it patronising, suggesting that millions of educated women who adorn these garments globally and are active within their societies are not able to think for themselves or study their religion independent of male influence but is also highly misogynistic. Oppression is not defined by a piece of material, but rather by a sickening of the heart and a weakening of the mind. Oppression grows in a society that is crumbling because its members have lost sight of the true purpose of their existence. The stereotypes and assumptions that portray all Muslim women as complacent and voiceless individuals are oppressive in and of themselves.



Muslim women will stay with their hijabs, burqas, niqabs and tchadors, they are not going anywhere, we certainly don't need to be rescued .Liberation is worshipping the Creator and not the created!~

Sorry but maybe you missed the opening post of this thread. The OP states:

It's sort of sad how every thread related to Islam ultimately becomes a debate about headscarves. But I guess to many of us it is an interesting topic. to me, it's somewhat upsetting that a religious observance involves covering a woman's head, of all things. Like, what is immodest or sexually appealing about a head of hair? Some women certainly have fabulous hair, but still....

When I see a family where the man is wearing a t-shirt and shorts, and the woman is covered head to toe, I can't help but believe that this particular belief creates a double standard and overemphasizes women's bodies as sexual objects. I'm not a huge fan of women of other religions wearing haircoverings and the like, either.=

This has nothing to do with being concerned with the rights and safety of that "One woman" who is forced to wear the hijab or what would happen to a woman wearing a bikini in Saudi Arabia. This is all about the narrative of the poor oppressed Muslim woman sitting subjugated next to her husband who is parading at the beach .

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:22:47 here. Wanted to thank you, Muslima, for your response. I am a person whose life experience/ cultural context makes me instantly bristle when I see the head coverings so it is very helpful to get a different perspective.

You're welcome, but why do you feel that way (bristle)?

I mean that as an American woman, the images I have been presented with are almost entirely and uniformly focused on the idea that the head garments are used by men to oppress women. That it is forced upon them. So if that is what you hear and what you think you know, then the reaction is clearly going to be negative, because of the emphasis in American culture on personal freedom. But your explanation presents me with new food for thought and a different perspective.

I can totally understand that, but I have never met a woman who was forced to wear the hijab and I have lived in both Muslim and Non Muslim countries. Everyone i met chose freely to do so, not saying that some are not forced to wear it but it is not the norm.

Anonymous wrote:My question is, in the many places in the world where women generally cover hair etc., what if one woman does NOT want to cover? In all of these places, is that okay? Can this woman go about her daily business dressed as she pleases completely at ease?

Muslima wrote:I posted this, didn't realize i wasn't logged in...

Anonymous wrote:OMG, Get a Hobby, go volunteer, feed a hungry kid. Muslim women don't wake up everyday thinking about you, why are you so obsessed with us? You want to make a change? With epedemic levels of domestic violence, rape and sexual harassment of women, with the sexualisation of young girls and women and the lack of equality in the workplace , challenge how women are treated in the West, you can make a difference! Rise above the assumptions surrounding the Muslim woman’s dress and speak to any Muslim woman on the streets of DC, London, Paris, New York, Cairo, Karachi, Ankara, Tunis, and even Kabul.

This falsely engineered narrative of what Muslim women think of their dress should not be tolerated. Not only is it patronising, suggesting that millions of educated women who adorn these garments globally and are active within their societies are not able to think for themselves or study their religion independent of male influence but is also highly misogynistic. Oppression is not defined by a piece of material, but rather by a sickening of the heart and a weakening of the mind. Oppression grows in a society that is crumbling because its members have lost sight of the true purpose of their existence. The stereotypes and assumptions that portray all Muslim women as complacent and voiceless individuals are oppressive in and of themselves.



Muslim women will stay with their hijabs, burqas, niqabs and tchadors, they are not going anywhere, we certainly don't need to be rescued .Liberation is worshipping the Creator and not the created!~

My belief is that women should not be forced to cover. Nobody should be forced to do anything, "no compulsion in religion".The women's rights issues in Saudi Arabia and other "Islamic" countries are issues of a nation (of man), not of a religion, whether or not the Islamic laws are followed has nothing to do with the religion itself.

Anonymous wrote:22:47 here. Wanted to thank you, Muslima, for your response. I am a person whose life experience/ cultural context makes me instantly bristle when I see the head coverings so it is very helpful to get a different perspective.

You're welcome, but why do you feel that way (bristle)?