Anonymous wrote:Then someone please explain ISIS to me. Because I just cannot comprehend the inhumanity and the lack of media coverage - it's simply SICK what these people are doing to Christians and others.

The proto-ISIS group, Tawhid al-Jihad (TJ) arose during the Iraq war, as a group amongst a coalition of resistance fighters against Iraqi occupation. It changed its name a few times: under Ayad Zawahiri, becoming the ‘The organisation of the base of Jihad in the land of the two rivers'; then the ‘Islamic State of Iraq’ (ISI) in 2006 from a coalition of multiple resistance movements; and in 2013 it branched into Syria, and appended the title ‘The Islamic State of Iraq and Syria’ (ISIS). They have now become a terrorist group that ended the lives of hundreds of different muslims, minorities and now also persecute Christians. They have comitted severe crimes throughout the middle east. We as muslims do NOT support ISIS, we do not recognize ISIS to be modeling Islam nor do they represent musims around the World.

Anonymous wrote:The question I have, at least, for Muslim women, is what is the purpose of being covered? What is the spiritual significance, what is the spiritual benefit?

There are a myriad of reasons why, but the easy, one sentence answer is, because they believe God has made it an obligation for believing women. Muslims believe that their sole purpose in life is the worship of God alone, according to His instructions, as revealed in the Holy Quran, and through the teachings of the Prophet Mohammed (pbuh). As such, wearing the hijab is an act of obedience to God and, hence, forms the primary basis for wearing it.In Islam, hijab is not demanded of women by men but is ordered upon women by the Merciful Ever-Living.

It is an outward symbol of an inward spiritual reality and aspiration. It is not a political flag for the Islamic state, it is not a sign of women’s subjugation to men, it is not a litmus test for religiosity, and it is not a measure of a woman’s piety, family background, ect . It is also important to note that though the term hijab is usually translated as "scarf" , it encompasses more than a scarf and more then a dress code. It is a term that denotes modest dressing and modest/good behavior, manners, speech and appearance in public. The headscarf is an outer manifestation of an inner commitment to worshipping Allah , it symbolizes a commitment to piety. Self or inner morality is what gives meaning to the external scarf. This can be perceived from the overall demeanor of any Muslim woman, how she acts, dresses, speaks, and so on.

Hijab can also be for some a sign of great inner strength and fortitude. A woman wearing hijab becomes a very visible sign of Islam. While Muslim men can blend easily into any society, Muslim women are often put on the line, and forced to defend not only their decision to cover, but also their religion. Nevertheless, women who wear hijab insist that the advantages far outweigh any disadvantage conjured up by media bias or general ignorance.

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:That's a pure fabrication (nicer word). Now as far as the topic of this thread I think people have a tendency to criticize things they don't understand much or feel threatened by

Probably a more common reason is educated people who do understand but tire of those continuing to evangelize a 2000 year old philosophy full of many disproved beliefs.

I believe in freedom of choice!

Did you even read what you copied/pasted? Your post said that Muslim women are told in mosques and by their husbands that they should reproduce. "Thus the wishes of the religious leaders and the husbands often end up trumping the wishes of the woman if she doesn't want anymore children"

And I repeat, it is a fabrication. In what Mosques are Women who don't want to reproduce being forced to reproduce to increase the Ummah? You copied and pasted someone's response to teh question :"

I noticed that people are of two types: those who encourage us to have few children and those who encourage us to have a lot of children. Is there is evidence to support either of these two opinions?.

Does Islam encourage us to have children? Yes, we see children as a blessing but to make the leap from there and say that Muslim Women are trumping their wishes to satisfy their religious leaders and husbands is a pure fabrication. Muslim Women all over the world use birth control, the only thing that is forbidden in Islam is abortion, unless it is done for medical reasons. Your comments again follow the same narrative that somehow Millions of educated Muslim women who are active within their societies are not able to think for themselves or study their religion independent of male influence. This is highly misogynistic and portray all Muslim women as complacent and voiceless individuals and that is simply not true.

Anonymous wrote:

Matthew 7:15-17 wrote:Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they? So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit

Look around the world. From Somalia to Libya to Syria to Iraq to Iran to Afghanistan to Pakistan. Look from Al-Qaeda to Boko Haram to the Taliban to ISIS. These are the people of God? Where are the great inventions, the medical breakthroughs (zero Nobel Prizes for medicine??), or scientific discoveries in the last 800 years? Where are Islamic countries anywhere a model for the rest of the world?

You will know them by their fruits.

In the Name of Allah, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful

Say: "Oh, you who disbelieve!
"I do not worship that which you worship,
"Nor do you worship That Which I worship.
"Nor will I worship that which you have been worshipping,
"Neither will you worship That Which I worship.
"To you your religion and to my religion"

[Quran: 109]

I posted this, didn't realize i wasn't logged in...

Anonymous wrote:OMG, Get a Hobby, go volunteer, feed a hungry kid. Muslim women don't wake up everyday thinking about you, why are you so obsessed with us? You want to make a change? With epedemic levels of domestic violence, rape and sexual harassment of women, with the sexualisation of young girls and women and the lack of equality in the workplace , challenge how women are treated in the West, you can make a difference! Rise above the assumptions surrounding the Muslim woman’s dress and speak to any Muslim woman on the streets of DC, London, Paris, New York, Cairo, Karachi, Ankara, Tunis, and even Kabul.

This falsely engineered narrative of what Muslim women think of their dress should not be tolerated. Not only is it patronising, suggesting that millions of educated women who adorn these garments globally and are active within their societies are not able to think for themselves or study their religion independent of male influence but is also highly misogynistic. Oppression is not defined by a piece of material, but rather by a sickening of the heart and a weakening of the mind. Oppression grows in a society that is crumbling because its members have lost sight of the true purpose of their existence. The stereotypes and assumptions that portray all Muslim women as complacent and voiceless individuals are oppressive in and of themselves.



Muslim women will stay with their hijabs, burqas, niqabs and tchadors, they are not going anywhere, we certainly don't need to be rescued .Liberation is worshipping the Creator and not the created!~

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Muslima, the more defensive you are about Islam, the less sympathetic people will be.

I am an Orthodox Jew but I can acknowledge that there are parts of Judaism that are difficult - unfair to women, to non-jews, gays.

Religion is hard. Its difficult for believers to follow and incredibly difficult (if not impossible) for those without the same belief system to understand.

Instead of being so defensive and trying to explain why everything little law is not as bad as it seems, just acknowledge that you have a different belief system and that although some Muslims impose that on others, thats not your interpretation of the Quoran.

I am not here looking for sympathy. I answer questions based on my beliefs and Islamic Theology. It is your right to believe that Judaism is unfair to women, I don't know much about it so won't speak for it. I believe Islam liberated women and gave them rights 1200 years before Western women had any rights, it is not an opinion, it is a fact documented through history. I am not going to say otherwise to get sympathy, I don't believe Islam subjugates women nor do I believe it is a hard religion, it is an easy way of life for those who choose it (keyword=choose) and ironically, women are the most converts of Islam, not men, and they choose so freely. I guess it's hard to comprehend for Non Muslims, but Muslim women are very happy in the way they choose to live their life. Everything in the life of the Muslim is for the sake of God, and to get closer to Him, so obviously we have a very different vision and expectation in life than the regular person ....

Well, I applaud your devotion but your defensiveness reads as blind devotion. I think extremism often comes from blind devotion and a lack of critical thinking of how it appears and affects outsiders. There are flaws in every religion and every secular "ism" as well. It doesnt mean that any are not worthy of faith and following but it means those who follow need to admit to those flaws and acknowledge them.

Muslims believe that Islam is perfect, no flaws. We believe that Muslims are human and imperfect but Islam is from the Creator so it's the perfect way of life and Islam encourages us to think critically. If you have a question, you can raise it and get answers. Yes, that's probably why we are seen as extremists even though we are not lol , we are extreme in how we love the Creator, we put Him above All. The last verse revealed of the Quran was : '
"This day I have perfected your religion for you, completed My favors upon you, and have chosen for you, Islam as your religion.”

That's perfect enough for me

There are a lot of Christians in Iraq right now who would disagree with your assessment.

And I'm standing with them against the abomination of IS as Many muslims around the world are. IS didn't represent Islam and don't speak for Muslim

Well, its quite possible the ISIS doesnt think you represent Islam and doesnt think that you speak for Muslims. Moderates must acknowledge the parts of the religion (and this is true of all religions) that are open to interpretation and extremism. Otherwise, the "perfection" of the religion becomes infallible and the extremists prevail.

Well they have been rejected by all reputable Muslim scholars and Theologians. Their actions are against Islam so ya they might think of me as a kuffar but it doesn't make them right. Btw, I don't like the term moderate Muslim, it somehow implies that Islam is only acceptable when it is diluted and that Orthodox Islam is violent or extreme. Muslims are just Muslims, some follow their religion, others don't. Same with all religions. There are practicing Christians and non practicing Christians. I wouldn't call them radical Christians or moderate Christians. The irony is Islam in itself is moderate so the term moderate Muslim is redundant.....

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Christianity is the dominant religion in this country. Even given that, there are many aspects to Christianity (particularly certain strains of Christianity) that are objectionable to many people. Christian activist organizations spend a lot of time and money attempting to influence politics, and even many Christians would prefer to have secular laws.

Not saying that's the only reason, but it's certainly one reason. I personally criticize religious anti-choice groups' attempt to impose their religious beliefs on other people, and overwhelmingly, those are Christian groups, not Buddhist or Muslim or Pastafarian ones.

You do realize that Muslims are very anti-choice with regard to abortion right? Some sharia courts will allow it under circumstances that they deem appropriate, but it's not the woman's choice.

They are also extremely anti-gay and view gays with disgust. This is all according to their scriptures.

As far as being against groups that attempt to impose their religious beliefs on others, Islam is right up there with Christianity. Politics and affecting politics is very much intertwined in religious gatherings at mosques and religious conventions, just as it is at churches. They take it a step farther though when they start wanting to be able to have their own sharia courts.

Islam is pro-choice historically. Just like Judiasm. It's only the modern and misguided Salafism that is anti-choice.

It has always been haram to have an abortion, with the exception of if the mother's life is in danger. For this the lesser of the two evils is acknowledged as saving the mother. That's not exactly pro-choice.

There are no judgements against birth control and pregnancy prevention though, so there's a plus. Except, that they are encouraged at their mosques and through their religious leaders to have numerous children (the more the propagate, the sooner they are the majority and able make right in the world with Islam). Thus the wishes of the religious leaders and the husbands often end up trumping the wishes of the woman if she doesn't want anymore.

Thanks for the chuckle, that was funny to read lol

That's a pure fabrication (nicer word). Now as far as the topic of this thread I think people have a tendency to criticize things they don't understand much or feel threatened by

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Muslima, the more defensive you are about Islam, the less sympathetic people will be.

I am an Orthodox Jew but I can acknowledge that there are parts of Judaism that are difficult - unfair to women, to non-jews, gays.

Religion is hard. Its difficult for believers to follow and incredibly difficult (if not impossible) for those without the same belief system to understand.

Instead of being so defensive and trying to explain why everything little law is not as bad as it seems, just acknowledge that you have a different belief system and that although some Muslims impose that on others, thats not your interpretation of the Quoran.

I am not here looking for sympathy. I answer questions based on my beliefs and Islamic Theology. It is your right to believe that Judaism is unfair to women, I don't know much about it so won't speak for it. I believe Islam liberated women and gave them rights 1200 years before Western women had any rights, it is not an opinion, it is a fact documented through history. I am not going to say otherwise to get sympathy, I don't believe Islam subjugates women nor do I believe it is a hard religion, it is an easy way of life for those who choose it (keyword=choose) and ironically, women are the most converts of Islam, not men, and they choose so freely. I guess it's hard to comprehend for Non Muslims, but Muslim women are very happy in the way they choose to live their life. Everything in the life of the Muslim is for the sake of God, and to get closer to Him, so obviously we have a very different vision and expectation in life than the regular person ....

Well, I applaud your devotion but your defensiveness reads as blind devotion. I think extremism often comes from blind devotion and a lack of critical thinking of how it appears and affects outsiders. There are flaws in every religion and every secular "ism" as well. It doesnt mean that any are not worthy of faith and following but it means those who follow need to admit to those flaws and acknowledge them.

Muslims believe that Islam is perfect, no flaws. We believe that Muslims are human and imperfect but Islam is from the Creator so it's the perfect way of life and Islam encourages us to think critically. If you have a question, you can raise it and get answers. Yes, that's probably why we are seen as extremists even though we are not lol , we are extreme in how we love the Creator, we put Him above All. The last verse revealed of the Quran was : '
"This day I have perfected your religion for you, completed My favors upon you, and have chosen for you, Islam as your religion.”

That's perfect enough for me

There are a lot of Christians in Iraq right now who would disagree with your assessment.

And I'm standing with them against the abomination of IS as Many muslims around the world are. IS didn't represent Islam and don't speak for Muslim

Anonymous wrote:Muslima:

I will speak here for Christianity:

Everything in the life of a Christian is for the sake of God and to get closer to Him.

Are you familiar with C S Lewis. You might like to read his book _Mere Christianity_.

Are you the person who started the thread about how often Christians pray? Actually we are enjoined to constantly pray (1 Thessalonians 5:17). I have been praying very frequently for you and for myself since late this morning when I posted the link to the story of the Samaritan woman. I think we both need the living water mentioned in that story.

Yes I'm the one who started that thread. No I'm not familiar with C S Lewis, I will look him up. Thank you for your prayers, may Allah bless you!

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Muslima, the more defensive you are about Islam, the less sympathetic people will be.

I am an Orthodox Jew but I can acknowledge that there are parts of Judaism that are difficult - unfair to women, to non-jews, gays.

Religion is hard. Its difficult for believers to follow and incredibly difficult (if not impossible) for those without the same belief system to understand.

Instead of being so defensive and trying to explain why everything little law is not as bad as it seems, just acknowledge that you have a different belief system and that although some Muslims impose that on others, thats not your interpretation of the Quoran.

I am not here looking for sympathy. I answer questions based on my beliefs and Islamic Theology. It is your right to believe that Judaism is unfair to women, I don't know much about it so won't speak for it. I believe Islam liberated women and gave them rights 1200 years before Western women had any rights, it is not an opinion, it is a fact documented through history. I am not going to say otherwise to get sympathy, I don't believe Islam subjugates women nor do I believe it is a hard religion, it is an easy way of life for those who choose it (keyword=choose) and ironically, women are the most converts of Islam, not men, and they choose so freely. I guess it's hard to comprehend for Non Muslims, but Muslim women are very happy in the way they choose to live their life. Everything in the life of the Muslim is for the sake of God, and to get closer to Him, so obviously we have a very different vision and expectation in life than the regular person ....

Well, I applaud your devotion but your defensiveness reads as blind devotion. I think extremism often comes from blind devotion and a lack of critical thinking of how it appears and affects outsiders. There are flaws in every religion and every secular "ism" as well. It doesnt mean that any are not worthy of faith and following but it means those who follow need to admit to those flaws and acknowledge them.

Muslims believe that Islam is perfect, no flaws. We believe that Muslims are human and imperfect but Islam is from the Creator so it's the perfect way of life and Islam encourages us to think critically. If you have a question, you can raise it and get answers. Yes, that's probably why we are seen as extremists even though we are not lol , we are extreme in how we love the Creator, we put Him above All. The last verse revealed of the Quran was : '
"This day I have perfected your religion for you, completed My favors upon you, and have chosen for you, Islam as your religion.”

That's perfect enough for me

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Some of the deadliest and most violent conflicts of our times have been the result of not religion, but secular based political ideologies. WW1, and WW2 were not based on religion, but competing political worldviews, with Nazism, Fascism, and Communism. After the end of the World War 2 the conflict was then fought between the two secular political ideologies of Communism, VS the Liberal Democratic-Capitalistic west, a conflict we all known as the Cold War which left millions of people dead and injured through proxy battles fought between the west and the Soviet Union.

Something that happened 75 years ago isn't a defense to the current behavior of the religious. A huge amount of violence in the world currently is being fueled by religious divisions. Furthermore, religion is a conservative political force which reinforces and promotes the conflicts between religious groups -- Exhibit A to this is the way conservative Christians and conservative Muslims are bound and determined to keep the US government and Muslim populations going at each other.

Religion is an inherently evil, destructive force in the world. The fact that there are OTHER destructive forces doesn't change that.

That wasn't a defense but barely an example to respond to the poster who speed the picture of a world without religion as peaceful and beautiful as if religion was the root of all evil. It’s not true that religion is the only, or unique cause for divisions and conflict between humans. There are many other ideologies and causes that have created division and conflict amongst humanity, so simply pointing a finger at religion doesn’t really count as a major argument, unless the other alternatives out there do the opposite, and the alternatives do not.

For example, political ideologies within a secular framework have been known to cause major divisions amongst the people, with left VS right, Democrat VS Republican, Liberal VS Conservative, Socialist VS Capitalist, Communist VS Capitalist, and the list goes on and on. Yet no atheist calls for the dismantling of politics within a secular framework, even though it’s been causing divisions amongst the people.


Yet with all these facts, anti-religion proponents for some strange reason try to make it seem that division and conflict is uniquely religious, when it’s obviously not the case. Or they try to argue that division-conflict caused by religion is worse than division-conflict caused by non-religious causes, such as secular ideologies, a highly convenient argument you would say.

Anonymous wrote:I am anti-Islam because Muslim extremists tried to kill my uncle. I don't really have any better reasons than that. I understand all of the arguments, that not all practitioners of Islam are violent, that Islam had a golden age sometime in the Middle Ages, that Christians have persecuted millions, etc., etc. But I can't help but notice that so much evil in the world today revolves around Islam.

This does not mean that I am anti-Muslim. I have a lot of Muslim friends and basically keep my sentiments to myself, except for right now as I type this.

I hope that one day, you can experience the beauty of Islam so that somehow, you can see it for more than the evil actions of some. In the end, love will always be stronger than hate

Anonymous wrote:Muslima, the more defensive you are about Islam, the less sympathetic people will be.

I am an Orthodox Jew but I can acknowledge that there are parts of Judaism that are difficult - unfair to women, to non-jews, gays.

Religion is hard. Its difficult for believers to follow and incredibly difficult (if not impossible) for those without the same belief system to understand.

Instead of being so defensive and trying to explain why everything little law is not as bad as it seems, just acknowledge that you have a different belief system and that although some Muslims impose that on others, thats not your interpretation of the Quoran.

I am not here looking for sympathy. I answer questions based on my beliefs and Islamic Theology. It is your right to believe that Judaism is unfair to women, I don't know much about it so won't speak for it. I believe Islam liberated women and gave them rights 1200 years before Western women had any rights, it is not an opinion, it is a fact documented through history. I am not going to say otherwise to get sympathy, I don't believe Islam subjugates women nor do I believe it is a hard religion, it is an easy way of life for those who choose it (keyword=choose) and ironically, women are the most converts of Islam, not men, and they choose so freely. I guess it's hard to comprehend for Non Muslims, but Muslim women are very happy in the way they choose to live their life. Everything in the life of the Muslim is for the sake of God, and to get closer to Him, so obviously we have a very different vision and expectation in life than the regular person ....

I think you missed the point. Nelson Mandela was labeled a terrorist at some point as well. You must have heard the saying, they are Freedom Fighters when they 're on your side & they are Terrorists when they're not. Example 90% of Taliban were Mujahedeen in the 80's fighting the Soviets they were called Freedom Fighters , financed and armed by us, when they started fighting us they became Terrorists. Why do some have the monopoly on defining these terms? Remember Ronald Reagan's comment on the Contras? He basically said they were the moral equivalent of the founding fathers. One persons terrorist is another' s freedom fighter. If the founding fathers would have lost the war, they would have been prosecuted under British law as terrorists.. Perspective......