Anonymous wrote:https://static1.squarespace.com/static/53c5807ce4b0d6926564f82d/t/5b2d0e530e2e72e10f323f1a/1529679444967/SSAT+vs+ISEE+chart+2.jpg

Hey, that's my chart! Thanks for linking to it! I've actually just updated it, so I don't think that link works anymore. If you're interested, please visit this part of my site:

https://peterbraverman.com/diy

and click "What Are the Differences Between the SSAT and ISEE?" (Duh.)

I put a ton of time into that chart so I added a credit. All I ask is that you retain the top portion if you pass it along.

In addition, on that Web page I've also listed a wide range of information about applying to independent schools that I've learned over the last 15 years or so. There are always nuances, but if you want to undertake this process, I think it provides a pretty good starting point, and, information, so they say, wants to be free.

Good luck!

Peter
_____________________

Disclaimer: The anonymity here makes me uncomfortable; it's too easy to write uninformed, personal, or mean-spirited posts if people don't identify themselves. For that reason, I have an account so you know whose words you're reading. I have more than 20 years' experience as a teacher and administrator in independent schools. I have read hundreds of admission files, and I have counseled hundreds of students in finding their next schools in the DC area. If you don't like something I've said, you're in good company — there's a long line of past students and parents ahead of you. If you want to chat further, please feel free to contact me offline: peter <at> peterbraverman <dotcom>

I would strongly recommend visiting GDS and asking current families in grades 3 and 4. There's nothing you said about your son that sounds unusual for a third-grade boy — I'd almost be more worried about a nine-year-old who DOESN'T crack up at a good fart joke, or even a bad one. The way he'll become an adult of good character is by being surrounded by adults of good character, not by trying to be an adult as quickly as possible.

I know GDS very well, and there is no reason GDS wouldn't serve a boy like yours well. The bigger question is whether their approach to education resonates with yours. There are many schools out there; investigating a few of them may help you narrow your search to the kind of school you're seeking. If you live near GDS, and you're looking for schools with similar profiles among accepted students, you might look at St. Albans (a single-sex school), Sidwell Friends (some people find it less individualistic than GDS), and Sheridan (a K–8, where the ultimate focus is on childhood instead of teenage-hood). There are many, many other excellent options (some of which don't begin with the letter "S," haha.)

Meanwhile, let the little rascal be the age he is, and don't worry about whether his behavior is "good" or "bad," desirable or undesirable. Be attentive instead to whether his behavior is NORMAL. I recommend two resources if you haven't investigated them yet:

1) "Knowing Third Graders," a part of the Responsive Classroom series. The pamphlet focuses on what third graders are like. It's geared toward teachers, but entirely accessible to parents as well. Best of all, it's online, and free! https://www.responsiveclassroom.org/sites/default/files/ET3intro.pdf

2) Richard Weissbourd's excellent book, The Parents We Mean to Be, a smart and thought-provoking introduction to the moral development of children, the roles parents play, and the damage we can do to our children by insisting that they need to be "happy" all the time.

Good luck!

Peter
_____________________

Disclaimer: The anonymity here makes me uncomfortable; it's too easy to write uninformed, personal, or mean-spirited posts if people don't identify themselves. For that reason, I have an account so you know whose words you're reading. I have more than 20 years' experience as a teacher and administrator in independent schools. I have read hundreds of admission files, and I have counseled hundreds of students in finding their next schools in the DC area. If you don't like something I've said, you're in good company — there's a long line of past students and parents ahead of you. If you want to chat further, please feel free to contact me offline: peter <at> peterbraverman <dotcom>

My experience matches that of a few PPs: Interviews vary quite a bit from school to school, and from grade to grade. Most one-on-ones are conversational, just trying to get an idea of what students are like on a personal level and, for older grades, whether they can think on their feet a little. About 80-90 percent of schools' interview questions are similar, drawn from a list of about a dozen questions. It's not a collusion; they're just obvious, age-appropriate questions, like "Tell me about one of your favorite books." Most parents could probably predict many of them.

It is entirely reasonable to ask admission offices about their interview settings — one-on-one, individually or with parents present, coincident with a casual tour, etc. — when scheduling one. Nobody should take offense at such an inquiry.

On a specific note, the PP's statement that group interviews favor extroverts is a perceptive one. If your child (older than grade 3 or so) has such an interview and is an introvert, it may be worth discussing how he or she feels about it, and ways it might help to interact, a few times beginning a few weeks before the interview date. In case it's not clear, I am not suggesting trying to turn your introverted kid into an extrovert — merely talking about and practicing specific strategies that could be used. Such an approach with very young children is as likely to backfire as not; it's almost always obvious who's been coached. Just let them have as much fun as they can.

For what it's worth, my experience is that almost all families who are new to the process, and many who are not, underestimate the value of the student interview relative to the quantitative aspects of an application.

Peter
_____________________

Disclaimer: The anonymity here makes me uncomfortable; it's too easy to write uninformed, personal, or mean-spirited posts if people don't identify themselves. For that reason, I have an account so you know whose words you're reading. I have more than 20 years' experience as a teacher and administrator in independent schools. I have read hundreds of admission files, and I have counseled hundreds of students in finding their next schools in the DC area. If you don't like something I've said, you're in good company — there's a long line of past students and parents ahead of you. If you want to chat further, please feel free to contact me offline: peter <at> peterbraverman <dotcom>

Anonymous wrote:Ah, there you are. Watch out Peter! Being positive on this forum drives some folks crazy. I enjoy reading your posts and appreciate your input.

Thanks to you and the poster who followed you. I appreciate your kind words.
Peter

Anonymous wrote:Nice sales ad. Hope you are paying Jeff for the plug.

Apparently he's used my ad fees to hire a security guard.

Anonymous wrote:Anyone accepted for for middle school with SSAT percentiles all in the 70s (79, 74, 70), but with much higher percentiles on in-school standardized testing? Wondering if we should even be hoping or just waiting for rejection? We only took the Jan test. Rookie mistake. Grades are good and lots of good extra-curricular activities. First choice is Holton.

Holton (and all schools whose admission processes are competitive) will reject some students with higher scores than your daughter's, and will accept some students with lower scores. The process is holistic. As long as scores are within the range for admitted students, standardized testing plays a much smaller role than most parents assume it does.

To answer your question directly: Higher is always better, but those scores on their own will not disqualify your daughter at any school in the DC area.

Good luck!
Peter

_____________________

Disclaimer: The anonymity here makes me uncomfortable; it's easy to be uninformed, personal, or simply mean-spirited if people don't identify themselves. For that reason, I have an account so you know whose words you're reading. I have more than 20 years' experience as a teacher and administrator in independent schools, and I have counseled hundreds of students in finding their next schools. I hope I can be helpful to some folks. If you don't like something I've said, you're in good company — there's a long line of past students and parents ahead of you. If you want to chat further, please feel free to contact me offline: peter <at> arcpd <dot> com

Anonymous wrote:We applied and we met the AD once and since then we have heard nothing from the school. Is that good or bad? Our application was checked complete. Our son sent a short handwritten thank you note. But nothing from their side. It is the last few days and so I am second guessing everything.
What are the chances our son will get in? Strong scores in high 80s and 90s in SSAT for 6th grade. Strong grades. Not sporty. But over all good kid.

Is there something you expect to hear from them? (I'm not trying to be snotty — please don't read it that way.) If not, I wouldn't read anything into it. They are VERY busy right now, processing several hundred applications for various grades. They won't reach out to anybody unless they require additional information. Hey, take it as a sign that you probably did everything correctly!

The test scores alone indicate that your son is qualified for admission, but there is no way to make a reliable guess based on test scores alone. They will turn down some applicants with higher scores than your son's and they will accept some with lower scores. The process is holistic; in my experience test scores — as long as they are within the range for admitted students — play a much smaller role than most parents assume.

This is a hard time of year. Remember that your son's success has far more to do with him and with your family than with any school, and be careful about conveying to him that he needs a particular school to succeed. I'm sure he will be great no matter where he ends up!

Good luck.
Peter

_____________________

Disclaimer: The anonymity here makes me uncomfortable; it's easy to be uninformed, personal, or simply mean-spirited if people don't identify themselves. For that reason, I have an account so you know whose words you're reading. I have more than 20 years' experience as a teacher and administrator in independent schools, and I have counseled hundreds of students in finding their next schools. I hope I can be helpful to some folks. If you don't like something I've said, you're in good company — there's a long line of past students and parents ahead of you. If you want to chat further, please feel free to contact me offline: peter <at> arcpd <dot> com

Anonymous wrote:I’m curious who actually makes these admissions decisions? Particularly at the more well known schools in DC? It seems like such a big process especially if vetted through many people.

It depends on the school. At some schools, the admission committee reaches a decision, sometimes by consensus, sometimes by actual vote. Committee discussions are often freewheeling — a discussion of one applicant may take a very long time while others sail through in two minutes — because the process is holistic. While a committee decision can be overruled by the admission director or the head of school, it is an unusual occurrence — perhaps two or three candidates per cycle.

At other schools, it's clear that the admission committee deliberations are merely recommendations to the admission director, and by implication, the head of school.

Though there may be other ways of structuring the decisions, those two would account for nearly all schools' processes. At every school, the head of school has ultimate responsibility, but how wide a role the heads play is determined by the heads themselves.

In my experience, the first scenario is more common than the second.

I hope that's helpful.
Peter
_____________________

Disclaimer: The anonymity here makes me uncomfortable; it's easy to be uninformed, personal, or simply mean-spirited if people don't identify themselves. For that reason, I have an account so you know whose words you're reading. I have more than 20 years' experience as a teacher and administrator in independent schools, and I have counseled hundreds of students in finding their next schools. I hope I can be helpful to some folks. If you don't like something I've said, you're in good company — there's a long line of past students and parents ahead of you. If you want to chat further, please feel free to contact me offline: peter <at> arcpd <dot> com

Anonymous wrote:

pbraverman wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s a very bad idea to lie about this, because admissions officers do talk to one another. If you indicate to two schools that they are both your top choice, that’s a good way to get rejected from both.

Both of these topics have been covered in the past. I agree that indicating to two schools that they're both "first choice" is an error — not least because it's not honest.

That said, I have done this work for 15 years with hundreds of students, and I have never encountered a single concrete reason to believe that admission offices speak with each other during admission season. On the contrary, I have had countless conversations that make no sense if they do.

In reality the schools with the most competitive pools are far too busy during February to worry about what others are doing, and every admission director is aware that it is likely illegal to speak about applicants. If this really does occur in a town teeming with lawyers, why has nobody brought an antitrust suit?

I do not know why this conspiracy theory persists; perhaps it speaks more to a basic human desire for rational explanations, even in situations where none may exist, than to real understanding of the process.

Peter

Peter,

Talking about a candidate casually does not necessarily rise to conspiracy or invoke anti-trust issues (how dramatic!). I am not saying ADs talk to collude or that they talk about every candidate. But they do talk. There is more than one reason they want to know what other schools you’re applying to.

I have heard that ADs sometimes talk to other ADs out of concern for a particular candidate, I.e. when they can’t accept a particular candidate for whatever reason, but they really like the child and family, they will sometimes talk that family up to other ADs. I’ve heard of one AD calling multiple other schools to make sure that a child got a spot somewhere when the AD’s school couldn’t accept him. I actually think that’s pretty kind.

PP:

You're right. I am not denying that admission directors ever talk. And my experience echoes yours: Sometimes an admission director, if a promising student is not offered a spot, will call around to see if anybody has space for that student. I agree that it speaks well for schools and admission staffs to advocate for students in this way. Students with whom I've worked have been on the fortunate end of these calls from time to time, and it's always appreciated.

All of that said, I was replying to the post in which it was suggested that naming two "first choices" would lead to rejection by both. I think that clearly implies that such a discussion between admission offices occurs DURING the decision-making process, rather than after decisions have been made.

I can accept that such an implication was not the poster's intention, but, if it was, I maintain that admission directors do not call each other while their committees are meeting, and that it would be inconvenient as well as unethical to do so. I have never seen credible evidence that there is some kind of cabal operating here.

Hope that clarifies. Thanks for raising the distinction.
Peter

Anonymous wrote:It’s a very bad idea to lie about this, because admissions officers do talk to one another. If you indicate to two schools that they are both your top choice, that’s a good way to get rejected from both.

Both of these topics have been covered in the past. I agree that indicating to two schools that they're both "first choice" is an error — not least because it's not honest.

That said, I have done this work for 15 years with hundreds of students, and I have never encountered a single concrete reason to believe that admission offices speak with each other during admission season. On the contrary, I have had countless conversations that make no sense if they do.

In reality the schools with the most competitive pools are far too busy during February to worry about what others are doing, and every admission director is aware that it is likely illegal to speak about applicants. If this really does occur in a town teeming with lawyers, why has nobody brought an antitrust suit?

I do not know why this conspiracy theory persists; perhaps it speaks more to a basic human desire for rational explanations, even in situations where none may exist, than to real understanding of the process.

Peter

Anonymous wrote:What if you checked the box saying you would apply for FA, but then after crunching the numbers/seeing the annual bonus/unexpected change in financial circumstances decide you won't apply for FA? Tell them or just don't apply for it and they'll figure it out?

Unless the two issues (first-choice and financial aid) must be conflated — such as an expression of a first choice that is dependent on financial aid — I would not put the two together. When a school examines its admission decisions, and then sends those decisions to the financial aid committee, they will see that you're not applying for aid. You could send the admission director a one-line note that says, "I want you to be aware that due to a change in our family circumstances, we have decided not to apply for financial aid" — but I don't think it's likely to make a whole lot of difference.

Obviously I know nothing about your particular situation, but I'd encourage you to be sure you don't want to apply for aid. There are countless stories of families who said, "We'd never qualify" but who do receive at least small reductions in tuition.

Good luck!
Peter

Anonymous wrote:Why not a thoughtful email? I think with all the mail coming in these schools an email would be okay? No? What says everyone??

Don't overthink it. A thoughtful email is fine. Keep it SHORT.

Peter
_____________________

Disclaimer: The anonymity here makes me uncomfortable; it's easy to be uninformed, personal, or simply mean-spirited if people don't identify themselves. For that reason, I have an account so you know whose words you're reading. I have more than 20 years' experience as a teacher and administrator in independent schools, and I have counseled hundreds of students in finding their next schools. I hope I can be helpful to some folks. If you don't like something I've said, you're in good company — there's a long line of past students and parents ahead of you. If you want to chat further, please feel free to contact me offline: peter <at> arcpd <dot> com

Anonymous wrote:I suppose families needing financial aid to determine where they can go, are not in a position to write a first choice letter? Or are they?

It's still fine to do so. I would just amend the note to say something like, "If Mildred is offered a spot, we intend to accept it, assuming the financial aid situation permits us to do so."

Peter
_____________________

Disclaimer: The anonymity here makes me uncomfortable; it's easy to be uninformed, personal, or simply mean-spirited if people don't identify themselves. For that reason, I have an account so you know whose words you're reading. I have more than 20 years' experience as a teacher and administrator in independent schools, and I have counseled hundreds of students in finding their next schools. I hope I can be helpful to some folks. If you don't like something I've said, you're in good company — there's a long line of past students and parents ahead of you. If you want to chat further, please feel free to contact me offline: peter <at> arcpd <dot> com

Anonymous wrote:
What age is your DC? Mine was rising 6th and wrote her own note of thanks and indicating that she loved the school. She got in. At that age I would also write as a parent. But I didn't to this school. For high school it should definitely be the child doing it.

Respectfully, as a school administrator I would not assume anything about a first-choice declaration unless it came from a parent. The school's contract is made with adults; it is the adults whose word on these topics would carry weight with the admission directors I know. I have seen too many parent/child disagreements to think a child's word is nearly as reliable as a parent's — on this topic.

Again, don't overthink it. If it's your family's first choice, just say so succinctly and move on to the next task. I think it's fine (even nice) for a high-schooler to write a note, but I don't think that carries any real weight on its own.

Peter

Anonymous wrote:We are new at this. In terms of communication method / protocol, is sending a "first choice" e-mail sufficient, or is this to be a hand-written letter? By prospective applicant/student? Or do the parents send?

Don't overthink it; it's not likely to make a very big difference, and the form of the letter is not very important as long as it's to the point. You can copy and paste if you'd like. No charge for this service.

Dear Wendy,

Thank you very much for the time you and the staff spent with Rosepetal last week. We have discussed Cathedral as a family, and it is very much our first choice. If Rosie is offered a spot, we intend to accept it. Please let me know if you have any questions. Thanks again.

Sincerely,
Murgatroyd

P.S. Peter did not write this note for us, but he sends his regards — it's been too long! — and hope the year begins well for you.

If financial aid might affect your decision, say that. ("...we intend to accept it, assuming sufficient financial aid is available.") Except for the parts that are obviously silly, yes, that's all there is to it. Oh, yeah, and if you do send something like that, don't renege.

Peter